Meaningful lessons without pain?

[donk]

My friend Maggie posted this in another thread, I think it goes great with this one :

hey Phil

You reference a person who acts out victim scenarios. It is very difficult to be in a close relationship with people who are push you, pull you dramatists.

The thing about victimization as a concept is as excuse to accept "help". I identify with the kernal of victim mindedness...one NEEDS so much and is deprived. People GET the support by being someone we can pity and help. They get second hand juice of Source through the helpers. But in the social milieu, this works to a certain extent as so many OTHERS need to be Saving to get THEIR juice from Source.

I think there is a possibility that I did not expect before...maybe the triad of victim, Savior and the needed Persecutors is just a shallow blah blah of connecting.

A theme that is in contrats to the triad is one I see around but worded many ways says...seek ye first the Kingdom of God and all will be added...THAT rocks.

That rocks because I think as You may be thinking...suffering is self imposed and just a drama. But we cannot have this freedom until we are diorectly Juiced from Source. How do we RECEIVE SOURCE? The greatest easy way is learn to relax. Justy by loosening up all the kinks, we can tap into the energy for no reason at all, JUST BE CAUSE we are MEANT to be in the flow of the energy that CREATES all "worlds"...

To choose freedom of the ideal of real love that we always HAVE and can extend endlessly is not draining because it is to be in the flow of Source. Yes, it can even help in the triad. People can still be halfway sourced and in with some energy.....mostly it is being traded around between characters acting out drama so "tired" energy. I think everyone is living just fine for what they are expecting. The fun part is upgrading and losing suffering.

Everyone does get something to live on in the degraded energy scene. The victim gets the trickle down of saints illumination. The Savior gets the tickle of touching madness, as insanity in proximity meets a desire. The Persecutor draws on the whirlwind of evil which is entropy and death. Players can even trade places.

Yours is not a necessarily and entrapped Theirs when YOU decide how to give and receive the energy of All.
IMO it is far from suffering to be alive in the Kingdom of "God" (name matters not) which is closer than our breathing.

Best for all who seek. Who cares if seeking is not finding because we have to do something around here to make time. Also, we choose to live in Community which is where all the great trimphs and challenges of relating bring pleasure or pain. IMO we could really interact in sharing pleasure IF we live in the kingdom of Love.




Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ_Xw7vnjgk


I think this "twin" is our Self? I think we meet Self when we are ready? Bye Bye suffering.

Love, maggie

[ZShawn]

cultural values in pain avoidance strategies seem to be unspoken for the most part, yet figure very large in human experience..... like avoiding punishment ...it wasn't me...he did it, she made me do it, blah blah....etc....
happens on pretty much every level too....even eating, sweets are given as treats, or used as bribes... when sour and bitter are typically healthful they are avoided almost universally by children and this is endorsed by most adults who keep buying the sweet crap for kids to use to develop their addictive personality disorders.... weird culture.

[donk]

It occurs to me that my perception is one from which I have had very little trauma, or even loss--I can count on one hand relatives who have died, none super close except my (old) grandmother when I was 9, and one close friend...none unexpected

How easy for me to be emotionally detached with very little first world problems. In fact, it may be telling that all my intense trauma has come from the bipolar love interests I've attracted in my life.

I'm coming to terms with my "rescuer" syndrome, which I am finding goes hand in hand with the savior paradigm.

I guess I explore this here in hopes of feedback, as I have very little experiential data to go on

[TargeT]

It occurs to me that my perception is one from which I have had very little trauma, or even loss--I can count on one hand relatives who have died, none super close except my (old) grandmother when I was 9, and one close friend...none unexpected

Trauma is very specific to your current state of perspective.

For some a touch on the buttocks by a stranger is traumatic, to others nothing short of losing a major sensory input would be traumatic.

How easy for me to be emotionally detached with very little first world problems. In fact, it may be telling that all my intense trauma has come from the bipolar love interests I've attracted in my life.

I'm coming to terms with my "rescuer" syndrome, which I am finding goes hand in hand with the savior paradigm.

I'm pretty good at this as well, which usually just mean's I have self sabotaged a relationship from it's very beginning.

My current relationship had an element of that at it's start, but I'm trying to break from the patterns of the past.

I guess I explore this here in hopes of feedback, as I have very little experiential data to go on

You sound a bit too much like me for me to be helpful

[ZShawn]

self-sabotage, is all too easy and we all do it in some way, even if we would deny it...just haven't dug deep enough yet is all that means.... since we are walking drug factories and our emotional/thought circuit is the generator mechanism which custom makes specific biochemical cocktails tailored to each specific emotional/thoughtform scenario we can cook up for ourselves......just engage in that mode for a few weeks and it becomes entrenched (21 days to form a habit i have heard)
if the habit is coddled or engaged in unconsciously for any length of time the body becomes a little junky which will then conspire to feed its cravings for this specific biochem cocktail we have been mixing...and thus the self sabotage begins.....amazing once one begins to see how this actually works, to then catch yourself in the act of working against your own best interests ....just to feed a habit of the body which you didn't even know was a habit......
what the bleep do we know has a good segment regarding neuropeptides which expands on this idea for those interested in digging deeper.

[donk]

Isn't self-sabatoge a manifestation of what we'd think of as "counter-evolutionary"? How could any individual, let alone "popular culture", accept such ideas....especially given the baseline "Darwinian evolution" model our sacred "science" is based on?

Shouldn't that be the most important thing we research and think about and teach our offspring?

Doesn't it beg the question "why wouldn't we just accept it best to go extinct, as something is wrong with us and "nature" (of which we are a part of) needs to correct itself"...with an alternative that "some external consciousness has chosen to program us to behave in self destructive manner by teaching us to become emotionally attached to counter-evolutionary 'values' "

[Aianawa]

Yeah got my hand up for self sabotage too, rescuing gold medal in back pocket, improving all the time though

[TargeT]

"some external consciousness has chosen to program us to behave in self destructive manner by teaching us to become emotionally attached to counter-evolutionary 'values' "

I would disagree with "programed"; influenced or, heavily influenced seems more correct to me.

And of course, most of us don't even question that inner dialogue or those weird impulses that seem "out of character" ....

we are playing a game that we were never told the rules for, and I don't think we've found the boundaries of it yet; not all of them.

[PurpleLama]

I believe identity is the root problem.

[ZShawn]

know thyself.......seems most people are passably familiar with the outer self, but then there is the inner self which is not an obvious aspect.....
and what does this idea of evolution have to do with anything

Doesn't it beg the question "why wouldn't we just accept it best to go extinct, as something is wrong with us and "nature" (of which we are a part of) needs to correct itself"...with an alternative that "some external consciousness has chosen to program us to behave in self destructive manner by teaching us to become emotionally attached to counter-evolutionary 'values' "

what kind of survival instinct is that? lol

[donk]

I believe identity is the root problem.

Agreed, that's why I brought up Westworld elsewhere...ultimately we ARE our stories (within everyone elses' stories)

The (seemingly) counter-evolutionary aspect being our tendancy (and acceptance of) deceit...being to self, or projected on to others.

I like to believe that we ARE love (Truth), and we can choose live in it more easily when approach pain/trauma more healthily. It seems counter-intuitive/evolutionary...anti-human/life...to be so drawn to the necessary darkness.

[Fred Steeves]

I like to believe that we ARE love (Truth), and we can choose live in it more easily when approach pain/trauma more healthily. It seems counter-intuitive/evolutionary...anti-human/life...to be so drawn to the necessary darkness.

I like the tree analogy. Roots digging deep into the datk soil, leaves reaching for the sun.

[TargeT]

Agreed, that's why I brought up Westworld elsewhere...ultimately we ARE our stories (within everyone elses' stories)

The (seemingly) counter-evolutionary aspect being our tendancy (and acceptance of) deceit...being to self, or projected on to others.

I like to believe that we ARE love (Truth), and we can choose live in it more easily when approach pain/trauma more healthily. It seems counter-intuitive/evolutionary...anti-human/life...to be so drawn to the necessary darkness.

often times immune responses impact more than what triggered them, or perhaps the immune system isn't able to effectively fight so it sends distress signals (or even stranger, there's times when an immune system won't have ENOUGH to fight, so it will start attacking what it is meant to protect).


I can see those as good analogies of the reasons (and it's often unconscious) we use to make dissonant choices.

[sandy]

Great convo' here and just want to throw something in here Donk.......

I personally don't think we are drawn to the dark so much as we are to the light...ever notice we don't see the dark until the light is shone upon it and illuminates it?? Then we take a good look if we are brave enough to not only acknowledge but experience the feelings and revelations. The sooner we can accept and allow for change the more we become okay with being human and not perfect..there is no need any longer to admonish, punish or shame oneself .......just forgiveness and love and moving forward with the additional light and evolution>

[donk]

I agree sandy, light is life so it makes sense to be drawn to it

Light can't exist without the contrast of the darkness, so I've learned to appreciate it and try to face it without fear

But what seems to have played out, at least to my experience, that there is deeper draw than seems healthy, manifesting in culture with a value system that seemingly-to-me appears more anti-human than us light beings would have created