Page 70 of 96 FirstFirst ... 20606768697071727380 ... LastLast
Results 1,036 to 1,050 of 1427

Thread: Coronavirus with an R0 of 3 or beyond

  1. #1036
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    17th March 2015
    Location
    Middle-Earth
    Posts
    20,223
    Thanks
    88,356
    Thanked 80,927 Times in 20,238 Posts
    Source: Reuters


    Over 300 million Indians may have COVID-19 - source citing government study



    NEW DELHI (Reuters) - About one in four of India’s 1.35 billion people may have been infected with the coronavirus, said a source with direct knowledge of a government serological survey, suggesting the country’s real caseload was many times higher than reported.

    India has confirmed 10.8 million COVID-19 infections, the most anywhere outside the United States. But the survey, whose findings are much more conservative than a private one from last week, indicates India’s actual cases may have crossed 300 million.

    The state-run Indian Council of Medical Research (ICMR), which conducted the survey, said it would only share the findings at a news conference on Thursday. The source declined to be named ahead of the official announcement.

    It was not immediately clear how many people participated in the latest survey.

    Following another survey done in August and September using blood samples of more than 29,000 people older than 10, ICMR had concluded that one in 15 Indians had COVID-19 antibodies. The figure jumped to one in six in densely-populated urban slums.

    A survey released by the government of the capital New Delhi this week found that more than half of its 20 million inhabitants may have been infected with the coronavirus.

    The World Health Organization says at least 60% to 70% of a population needs to have immunity to break the chain of transmission.

    India reported 11,039 new cases on Wednesday. Deaths rose by 110 to 154,596. Infections and fatalities have come down significantly since a mid-September peak of nearly 100,000 a day.

    Its vaccination programme, touted by the government as the world’s biggest, has covered more than 4 million people in 18 days, with the aim to reach 300 million by August.



    Source: Reuters
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

  2. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Aragorn For This Useful Post:

    Chris (4th February 2021), Dreamtimer (4th February 2021), Elen (4th February 2021), Emil El Zapato (3rd February 2021), Octopus Garden (16th March 2021), Wind (3rd February 2021)

  3. #1037
    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
    Join Date
    3rd April 2017
    Location
    Earth I
    Posts
    12,164
    Thanks
    36,591
    Thanked 43,045 Times in 11,889 Posts
    i've been wondering about that actually. I think they might be genetically vulnerable, I can't remember for sure, but their population density is very high. I've also wondered about Mainland China as well. This goes on the high speculation side of things. If it was a genetically modified virus it seems reasonable that the inventors would try to self-protect for contingencies once the virus was loose. They've been partying for 6 months haven't they?
    “El revolucionario: te meteré la bota en el culo"

  4. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Emil El Zapato For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (3rd February 2021), Chris (4th February 2021), Dreamtimer (4th February 2021), Elen (4th February 2021), Octopus Garden (16th March 2021), Wind (3rd February 2021)

  5. #1038
    Retired Member Hungary
    Join Date
    10th July 2018
    Posts
    1,862
    Thanks
    4,696
    Thanked 8,908 Times in 1,858 Posts
    Geopolitically speaking, there is open talk about possible war between China and India in the near future. The two countries already fought a border war in the 1960s, which India lost comprehensively, including a large chunk of remote Himalayan territory. I have been reading articles this week about how the UK could be pulled into an India-China war via its integration into the US naval command structure. The British are sending their only aircraft carrier to the South China see, as a show of force, no doubt connected to their recent decision to grant full British Citizenship and hus immigration rights, to all Hong Kong residents born before 1997.

    Tensions between India and China have been growing in the past few years, with frequent border clashes and incursions into each other's territory.

    Given all that, it is noteworthy, that Covid has largely passed East Asian populations by, but has devastated India, Europe, and the Americas, where people of a different genotype are present.

    Genotype matters when it comes to infectious diseases, with Malaria being the most obvious example. In India, for instance, East Asians occupy the higher-lying Himalayan areas, but are completely absent from the tropical floodplains. It is believed that this is due to the higher susceptibility of East Asian populations to Malaria as Malarial Mosquitoes are absent from higher evelations and latitudes.
    Last edited by Chris, 4th February 2021 at 07:55.

  6. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (4th February 2021), Dreamtimer (4th February 2021), Elen (5th February 2021), Emil El Zapato (4th February 2021), Octopus Garden (16th March 2021), Wind (4th February 2021)

  7. #1039
    Retired Member Hungary
    Join Date
    10th July 2018
    Posts
    1,862
    Thanks
    4,696
    Thanked 8,908 Times in 1,858 Posts
    A new scientific study assigns a 99,8 percernt probability for the laboratory origin of the SARS-COV-2 virus, with only a 0,2 percent probability for it being Zoonotic (natural).

    https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/wp-...-FINAL-V.2.pdf

    Some interesting titbits:

    Executive Summary. The one-year anniversary of the COVID-19 pandemic records 2.1 million
    deaths, over 100 million confirmed cases,1 and trillions of dollars of economic damage.
    Although there is universal agreement that a coronavirus identified as Severe Acute Respiratory
    Syndrome Coronavirus 2 or SARS-CoV-2 (abbreviated CoV-2 henceforth) causes the disease
    COVID-19, there is no understanding or consensus on the origin of the disease.
    The Chinese government, WHO, media, and many academic virologists have stated with strong
    conviction that the coronavirus came from nature, either directly from bats or indirectly from
    bats through another species. Transmission of a virus from animals to humans is called a
    zoonosis.

    A small but growing number of scientists have considered another hypothesis: that an ancestral
    bat coronavirus was collected in the wild, genetically manipulated in a laboratory to make it
    more infectious, training it to infect human cells, and ultimately released, probably by accident,
    in Wuhan, China. For most of 2020 this hypothesis was considered a crackpot idea, but in the
    last few weeks, more media attention has been given to the possibility that the Wuhan Institute of
    Virology, located near the Wuhan city center and with a population of over 11 million
    inhabitants, may have been the source of the field specimen collection effort, laboratory genetic
    manipulation, and subsequent leak. On January 15, 2021, the U.S. Department of State issued a
    statement requesting the WHO investigation of the origin of COVID-19 include specific
    assertions related to a laboratory origin of the pandemic.
    2
    Given the strong sentiment in the scientific community in favor of a zoonosis and the massive
    effort undertaken by China to find the natural animal source, one can assume that any evidence
    in favor of a natural origin, no matter how trivial, would become widely disseminated and
    known. This provides a potential evidence bias within the scientific community in favor of a
    natural origin which isn’t quantifiable but should be kept in mind.
    This becomes especially important background when evidence that could support a laboratory
    origin has been directly provided by leading Chinese scientists themselves, like Dr. Zhengli Shi,
    head of coronavirus research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology and Gao Fu (George Fu Gao),
    Director of Chinese CDC; by the Chinese government, as well as by powerful and vocal, pronatural origin scientists, like Dr. Peter Daszak, of the NYC-based NGO, EcoHealth Alliance.

    ...

    Obviously if a vaccine containing the Spike Protein of SARS-CoV-2 was being
    administered to patients in Wuhan in December 2019 the question of laboratory origin is a
    settled matter.


    The remaining analysis is being conducted without the adenovirus vaccine evidence unless and
    until it is corroborated. The outcome of this report is the conclusion that the probability of a
    laboratory origin for CoV-2 is 99.8% with a corresponding probability of a zoonotic origin of
    0.2%. This exceeds most academic law school discussions of how to quantify ‘beyond a
    reasonable doubt,’ the threshold for finding guilt in a criminal case. The report contains the
    detailed analysis and quantitative basis for the statistics and conclusion
    . It should be noted that
    because of the commutative property of the collected adjustments to the probabilities, the order
    in which they are used in the overall calculation is immaterial and the same end likelihoods will
    be reached regardless of the order of input.

  8. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (4th February 2021), Dreamtimer (5th February 2021), Elen (5th February 2021), Emil El Zapato (4th February 2021), Octopus Garden (16th March 2021), Wind (4th February 2021)

  9. #1040
    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
    Join Date
    3rd April 2017
    Location
    Earth I
    Posts
    12,164
    Thanks
    36,591
    Thanked 43,045 Times in 11,889 Posts
    For Whatever It's Worth:

    Likelihood of future event based on historical frequency:

    Natural Event = 8.1/8.9 X 100 = 0.91
    Laboratory Origin = 0.8/8.9 X 100 = 0.9

    Daszak’s initial state analysis. This evidence sets the likelihood that CoV-2 was a zoonotic
    origin event at 91% and a laboratory origin event at 9%.


    I was reading his paper and noticed several trivial errors, for example spelling. It was obvious that it was done in a hurry. Probably to insure his thunder.
    If you notice the values .91 for the natural event and .9 for the laboratory origin should have been written for the natural origin event as 91.0 percent and for the Laboratory origin it should have been written as 9.0 percent
    “El revolucionario: te meteré la bota en el culo"

  10. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Emil El Zapato For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (4th February 2021), Chris (6th February 2021), Dreamtimer (5th February 2021), Elen (5th February 2021), Octopus Garden (4th March 2021), Wind (4th February 2021)

  11. #1041
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    17th March 2015
    Location
    Middle-Earth
    Posts
    20,223
    Thanks
    88,356
    Thanked 80,927 Times in 20,238 Posts
    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    For Whatever It's Worth:

    Likelihood of future event based on historical frequency:

    Natural Event = 8.1/8.9 X 100 = 0.91
    Laboratory Origin = 0.8/8.9 X 100 = 0.9

    Daszak’s initial state analysis. This evidence sets the likelihood that CoV-2 was a zoonotic
    origin event at 91% and a laboratory origin event at 9%.


    I was reading his paper and noticed several trivial errors, for example spelling. It was obvious that it was done in a hurry. Probably to insure his thunder.
    If you notice the values .91 for the natural event and .9 for the laboratory origin should have been written for the natural origin event as 91.0 percent and for the Laboratory origin it should have been written as 9.0 percent
    According to the latest news over here, the just released WHO report states that the theory of the virus having originated in a laboratory are ─ and I quote ─ "completely false, but would make a great Hollywood movie scenario."
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

  12. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Aragorn For This Useful Post:

    Chris (6th February 2021), Dreamtimer (5th February 2021), Elen (5th February 2021), Emil El Zapato (4th February 2021), Octopus Garden (4th March 2021), Wind (4th February 2021)

  13. #1042
    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
    Join Date
    3rd April 2017
    Location
    Earth I
    Posts
    12,164
    Thanks
    36,591
    Thanked 43,045 Times in 11,889 Posts
    Bayes Theorem forms the basis of the statistical analysis. On Nap's Random Science Thread one can find an explanation of how it is conducted ...

    Sources of statistical data:

    1. Rootclaim - Israeli start up company. On a sidenote willing to bet $100,000 that Vitamin D will ameliorate the course of a Covid infection

    Theory One.

    The zoonotic theory is that a vertebrate animal was infected with CoV-2 or an ancestor (Index Host) and that a human was infected with contact to that Index Host in some manner. Human-to-human spread then followed.

    Theory Two.

    The laboratory origin theory is that CoV-2 or an ancestor was being used in laboratory experiments and that it ‘escaped’ from the lab via an infected person, lab animal, experimental waste, etc. I have found no evidence of a deliberate release and early firsthand accounts of local officials and scientists suggest surprise and consternation. If this was a deliberate release, such evidence would be extremely local, limited in distribution, and highly compartmentalized. It is beyond the scope of this analysis.

    Weight of the evidence.

    For purposes of the calculation of posterior probabilities in the Bayesian analysis, evidence which has a statistical basis will be used directly to adjust the probabilities.

    2. The following analysis is in the form of an independent manuscript: Me: I only included an excerpt from that section
    The seminal paper from the Wuhan Institute of Virology claiming SARS-CoV-2 probably originated in bats appears to contain a contrived specimen, an incomplete and inaccurate genomic assembly, and the signature of laboratory-derived synthetic biology The coronavirus RaTG13 was purportedly identified in a bat “fecal” specimen that is probably not feces, has significant unresolved method-dependent genome sequence errors and an incomplete assembly with significant gaps, and has an anomalous base substitution pattern that has never been seen in nature but is routinely used in codon-optimized synthetic genome constructions performed in the laboratory.

    3. GenBank:

    GenBank ® is the NIH genetic sequence database, an annotated collection of all publicly available DNA sequences (Nucleic Acids Research, 2013 Jan;41(D1)36-42). GenBank is part of the International Nucleotide Sequence Database Collaboration, which comprises the DNA DataBank of Japan (DDBJ), the European Nucleotide Archive (ENA), and GenBank at NCBI. These three organizations exchange data on a daily basis.

    4. Opinions based on scientific analysis e.g.

    Soon after this email was written Dr. Andersen blocked the author from following his Twitter account. A reply to the above email was never received.
    Conclusion.
    Three high visibility papers were published between January and May 202 (Me: dating error) which purported to settle the question of the origin of SARS-CoV-2 as a zoonotic transmission and not a laboratory accident. The analysis above concludes that these papers are not persuasive. The author has elected to not use evidence within these papers to change the prior likelihood of a zoonotic versus laboratory origin. They are presented here as neutral evidence that supports neither theory.
    Evidence. SARS-like infections among employees of the Wuhan Institute of Virology in the fall of 2019
    Evidence. A Bayesian Analysis of one aspect of the SARS-CoV-2 origin, where the first recorded outbreak occurred, increases the probability of a laboratory origin.
    Evidence: Lack of seroconversion in Wuhan and Shanghai
    Evidence: Lack of posterior diversity for SARS-CoV-2 compared to MERS and SARSCoV-1 (This one caught my attention. This is solid evidence)
    Evidence: Opportunity.
    The Wuhan Institute of Virology has publicly disclosed that by 2017 it had developed the techniques to collect novel coronaviruses, systematically modify the receptor binding domain to improve binding or alter zoonotic tropism and transmission, insert a furin site to permit human cell infection, make chimera and synthetic viruses, perform experiments in humanized mice, and optimize the ORF8 gene to increase human cell death (apoptosis).
    Evidence and Motive for laboratory furin site insertion:
    A key to infectivity of coronaviruses is the addition, in nature or the laboratory, of a furin cleavage site (FCS) at the S1/S2 junction of the Spike Protein.
    Evidence: Codon usage can distinguish insertion events in the wild from those created in the laboratory.
    Evidence. Laboratory codon optimization uses CGG for laboratory insertions of arginine residues 50% of the time.
    Evidence: SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein is Highly Optimized for ACE2 Binding and Human Cell Infectivity, a Finding that is Inconsistent with Natural
    Selection but is Consistent with Laboratory Creation
    Evidence. Whole genome comparison of human adaption of CoV-2 compared to SARSCoV-1 consistent with “pre-adaption” of CoV-2 to human host
    Evidence: Evidence of CoV-2 during early 2019 in wastewater from Barcelona, Spain is a false positive artifact
    Evidence: WHO and Dr. Shi have spoken of the singular nature of the beginning of COVID-19
    Evidence.
    As documented by Drs. Daszak, Humes, and Shi, mammalian biodiversity and bat species differences of Yunnan and Hubei Provence are significant and do not support zoonotic origin
    Evidence:
    The ancestor of SARS-CoV-2 can hypothetically only obtain a furin site by recombination outside of the sarbecovirus subgenera but there is strong evidence that coronavirus recombination is largely limited to the clade level, with limited evidence of subgenera or genera recombination
    Evidence:
    Of 410 vertebrate species tested for affinity to CoV-2 Spike Protein binding domain, primate ACE2 receptor, including human and VERO monkey cells, are the best at binding and bat species ACE2 are the worse, making direct bat-to-human host jumping extremely unlikely
    Evidence: Did a Review of Samples Collected from a Mineshaft Cause the COVID-19 Pandemic? (Me: Viewed as irrelevant by the author)
    Evidence: The Hunan market was not the source of SARS-CoV-2
    Evidence:
    Analysis of the hospital of admission for COVID-19 patients during December 2019 places “ground zero” for the outbreak somewhere along Line 2 of the Wuhan Metro System. Line 2 carries one million people per day and services the Wuhan Institute of Virology, the Hunan Seafood Market, the high-speed rail system, and the Wuhan International Airport
    Evidence:
    SARS-CoV-2 infection, based on antibody seroconversion, was not found in 39 archived specimens taken from cats (1/3 feral) between March and May 2019
    Evidence: The extraordinary pre-adaption of SARS-CoV-2 for human cells is demonstrated by a paper looking at a tRNA adaption index.1
    Evidence: Evidence of Lax procedures and disregard of laboratory safety protocols and regulations in China, including the Wuhan Institute of Virology
    Evidence: The careful words of Dr. Shi do NOT say she did not have SARS-CoV-2 at the WIV.
    Evidence: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: a review of SARS Lab Escapes
    Evidence: Drs. Shi and Daszak use Wuhan residents as negative controls for zoonotic coronavirus seroconversion
    Evidence.
    The Bat Coronavirus RaTG13 has the Unique Genome Sequences Necessary to be the Precursor of SARS-CoV-2 Using the ‘No See ‘Em’ Synthetic Biology Technology. The probability that RaTG13 acquired these ‘No See ‘Em’ synthetic biology assembly sequences in nature is one in a billion.
    Evidence.
    Location, location, location: Based on the distance between known SARS-CoV-1 laboratory-acquired infections and the hospital of admission of the infected personnel, the WIV is within the expected hospital catchment for a CoV-2 LAI
    Evidence. Dr. Shi successfully identifies a laboratory-acquired infection outbreak from Hanta virus in laboratory rodents.
    Evidence. Bats hibernate when the temperature is below 10.5 C; 131 in Hubei province that begins in September and ends in May.


    Wuhan Institute of Virology analysis of lavage specimens from ICU patients at Wuhan
    Jinyintan Hospital in December 2019 contain both SARS-CoV-2 and adenovirus vaccine
    sequences consistent with a vaccine challenge trial


    Summary.
    The most significant evidence provided herein is the finding from RNA-Seqperformed by the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) of lavage patient samples collected on December 30, 2019.132 These ICU patients were the subject of the seminal paper, entitled, “A pneumonia outbreak associated with a new coronavirus of probable bat origin,” from Dr. Zhengli Shi and colleagues that first characterized SARS-CoV-2.133 This author has confirmed that the RNA-Seq of all five patients contained SARS-CoV-2 sequences.

    Surprisingly the specimens also contained the adenovirus “pShuttle” vector, developed by Chinese scientists in 2005 for SARS-CoV-1.134 Two immunogens were identified, the Spike Protein gene of SARS-CoV-2 and the synthetic construct H7N9 HA gene.135 Hundreds of perfectly homologous (150/150) raw reads suggest this is not an artifact. Reads that cross the vector-immunogen junction are identified. While adenovirus is a common infection the wildtype viruses have low homology to the vaccine vector sequence, by design, to avoid rejection of the vaccine due to prior exposure to wildtype adenoviruses.

    Me: One of the most interesting things I noticed is that Dr. Steven Quay cites research favoring a laboratory origin from his main villain, Dr. Zhengli Shi.
    “El revolucionario: te meteré la bota en el culo"

  14. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Emil El Zapato For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (4th February 2021), Chris (6th February 2021), Dreamtimer (5th February 2021), Elen (5th February 2021), Octopus Garden (4th March 2021), Wind (5th February 2021)

  15. #1043
    Retired Member United States
    Join Date
    7th April 2015
    Location
    Patapsco Valley
    Posts
    14,610
    Thanks
    70,673
    Thanked 62,025 Times in 14,520 Posts
    If papers are being published with spelling and number errors....

    That's pretty bad. What other carelessness occurred? Who are the editors? Why is this even published?

    Lot's of good papers go unpublished because the folks who screen/determine/approve don't like them, as opposed to being of good/bad scientific value.

    I'm not saying this is the norm. I'm just wondering how something that may have been slapped together made it through?

  16. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Dreamtimer For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (5th February 2021), Chris (6th February 2021), Elen (6th February 2021), Emil El Zapato (5th February 2021), Octopus Garden (4th March 2021), Wind (5th February 2021)

  17. #1044
    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
    Join Date
    3rd April 2017
    Location
    Earth I
    Posts
    12,164
    Thanks
    36,591
    Thanked 43,045 Times in 11,889 Posts
    I've seen some of his written stuff before. I think he might have been working on it for awhile but the latest, his paper, is around 150 pages long...that's a load of stuff. I'm still not sure that a serious M.D., tech writer would want to be careless at all when publishing a paper to be peer reviewed. It surely hurts credibility. (to the critic) I don't know if I've mentioned this but as a senior in high school I was on a committe that evaluated the school students offerings in the form of poetry, essays, short stories, and philosophical sayings. This was after I was kicked out of my English class and had to enroll in a less exalted class in order to graduate. I had none of the above skills, though I did, in half jest accuse a fellow student of stealing my philosophy ideas ... but what I could do was edit and critique with the best of them. lol

    If it is not my own, I can spot a spelling error by glancing at a paragraph of writing, i sure most people can ... I've considered trying to get a side gig as a book-reader/proofreader
    “El revolucionario: te meteré la bota en el culo"

  18. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Emil El Zapato For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (5th February 2021), Chris (6th February 2021), Dreamtimer (5th February 2021), Elen (6th February 2021), Octopus Garden (4th March 2021), Wind (5th February 2021)

  19. #1045
    Retired Member United States
    Join Date
    7th April 2015
    Location
    Patapsco Valley
    Posts
    14,610
    Thanks
    70,673
    Thanked 62,025 Times in 14,520 Posts
    I was a paralegal for a short while. I found proofreading to be harder than I had thought.
    Last edited by Dreamtimer, 6th February 2021 at 01:35. Reason: awkward grammar

  20. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Dreamtimer For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (5th February 2021), Chris (6th February 2021), Elen (6th February 2021), Emil El Zapato (5th February 2021), Octopus Garden (4th March 2021), Wind (5th February 2021)

  21. #1046
    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
    Join Date
    3rd April 2017
    Location
    Earth I
    Posts
    12,164
    Thanks
    36,591
    Thanked 43,045 Times in 11,889 Posts
    Legalese? Gawd, no doubt!
    “El revolucionario: te meteré la bota en el culo"

  22. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Emil El Zapato For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (5th February 2021), Chris (6th February 2021), Dreamtimer (6th February 2021), Elen (6th February 2021), Octopus Garden (4th March 2021)

  23. #1047
    Retired Member Hungary
    Join Date
    10th July 2018
    Posts
    1,862
    Thanks
    4,696
    Thanked 8,908 Times in 1,858 Posts
    As a side note to the below article, my elderly neighbour was called up this week and was offered the Chinese, Sinopharm jab, but she refused it. She is waiting for another vaccine to come along. Personally, I would go for an mRNA vaccine if I had the choice, the Pfizer BionTech one is the most innovative and effective so far, but the Russian Sputnik vaccine is also quite promising. The Chinese one used whole inactivated Sars-Cov-2 viruses and is said to be less effective, but safer than the other vaccines, which use newer technology. Here in Hungary, we currently have a choice of 5 vaccines, but the Russian and Chinese ones are more widely available, whereas Western vaccines, procured through a joint EU scheme, are in short supply. Would any of you guys be willing to get the Chinese or Russian Jab, I wonder?

    https://www.politico.eu/article/hung...e-coronavirus/

    ‘I’m vaccinated’: Hungary’s Orbán promotes Chinese coronavirus jab

    Prime minister has criticized the EU’s slow rollout of Western jabs.

    Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán on Sunday posted a photo of himself with a syringe needle in his arm, along with a picture of a package of the coronavirus vaccine made by Chinese manufacturer Sinopharm.

    “I'm vaccinated,” he declared in the Facebook post alongside a short video of him getting jabbed.

    The Chinese-made vaccine has not been approved by the European Medicines Agency. Orbán has sharply criticized the EU's vaccination program as too slow, and Hungary has broken with most EU countries to grant emergency authorization to the Sinopharm shot as well as to the Sputnik V vaccine made in Russia.

    In a radio interview earlier this month, Orbán predicted that Hungary, by Easter, would have the highest vaccination rate of any EU country as a result of its willingness to use Chinese and Russian vaccines while it waits for the EU to come through with deliveries from AstraZeneca, BioNTech/Pfizer, Moderna and other Western companies.

    Orbán's personal promotion of the Chinese vaccine on his Facebook page amounts to his starkest rebuke yet of the EU's stumbling vaccination rollout.

    In his interview with Kossuth radio earlier this month, Orbán said he refused to believe that EU, British or U.S. regulators were more expert than Hungarian national officials and that waiting for EMA-approved vaccines through the EU's joint purchase programs would cost too many Hungarian lives.

    “We can talk about waiting for this and that, but we lose a hundred Hungarians every day we wait,” Orbán said. “So I'm not waiting.”

    If Hungary does race ahead of other EU countries on vaccination deliveries, other EU leaders will inevitably face severe public scrutiny for refusing to take similar steps.

    During a videoconference of the European Council on Thursday, EU heads of state and government confronted their powerlessness to immediately ramp up production and distribution of vaccines manufactured in Europe.

    Commission President Ursula von der Leyen has said all vaccine manufacturers are welcome to apply for EMA approval, but Brussels has so far not taken steps that could potentially speed the process for vaccines already in use in other jurisdictions. Von der Leyen also publicly raised doubts about the Sputnik vaccine, despite little scientific evidence to support those concerns.

    Orbán’s full-throated public support for Russian and Chinese vaccines also stands in stark contrast to some other EU leaders, who have even cast doubt on vaccines approved by the EU.

    French President Emmanuel Macron has amplified skepticism about the effectiveness of the AstraZeneca vaccine — one of the three vaccines approved by the EMA for all age groups — saying it appeared to be “quasi-ineffective” for people over age 65. Macron has since walked back his comments to some degree and even said he would accept the AstraZeneca vaccine personally.

    German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who is 66, has said she would not take the AstraZeneca vaccine because it is not recommended by German experts for her age group. But critics have blamed poor communication by EU leaders for unnecessarily raising public doubts about the AstraZeneca jab, leading many to refuse it.

    Thomas Mertens, the chair of Germany’s advisory body Stiko, told public broadcaster ZDF on Friday that the advisers were going to rethink their recommendation, conceding that the communication around the vaccine had “all gone a bit wrong.”

  24. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (28th February 2021), Dreamtimer (28th February 2021), Elen (28th February 2021), Emil El Zapato (28th February 2021), Wind (28th February 2021)

  25. #1048
    Retired Member United States
    Join Date
    7th April 2015
    Location
    Patapsco Valley
    Posts
    14,610
    Thanks
    70,673
    Thanked 62,025 Times in 14,520 Posts
    From Johns Hopkins University:

    Event 201 is the fourth such exercise hosted by the Johns Hopkins center, which works to prepare communities for biological threats, pandemics, and other disasters. The simulations started with 2001's Dark Winter, which gathered national security experts for its simulated smallpox outbreak. The groundbreaking event turned out to be influential in shaping U.S. efforts around pandemic preparedness—particularly due to its timing, right before 9/11.

    "Dark Winter resulted in more than a dozen congressional hearings, was briefed to the White House, and ultimately influenced the decision to stockpile enough smallpox vaccine for all Americans," Inglesby says.

    That simulation and its two successors—Atlantic Storm, conducted in 2005, and last summer's Clade X—have also demonstrated lasting value as educational and advocacy tools, with reenactments or modified versions taking place in settings including universities, the CDC, and Capitol Hill, according to Inglesby. "These exercises have a long fuse," he says.

    For Event 201, hosted in collaboration with the World Economic Forum and the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, the experts added a new layer of realism by reaching beyond government and NGOs to leaders in the private sector and business community. Participants included representatives from NBCUniversal, UPS, and Johnson & Johnson.
    We do exercises to prepare for things here. I'm pretty sure other nations do this as well.

  26. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Dreamtimer For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (2nd March 2021), Chris (2nd March 2021), Elen (2nd March 2021), Emil El Zapato (2nd March 2021), Wind (3rd March 2021)

  27. #1049
    Retired Member United States
    Join Date
    7th April 2015
    Location
    Patapsco Valley
    Posts
    14,610
    Thanks
    70,673
    Thanked 62,025 Times in 14,520 Posts
    The energy spent looking for lies and hoaxes is wasted. It could be energy spent on helping people and the environment. Helping animals and making music.

    Fear combined with a smattering of facts does not seem to be serving anyone. I haven't witnessed a benefit.

    When a balance of the alternative and the regular happens, a person can sift out the good stuff from wherever it abides.

    Without critical thinking, without looking a a wide array of sources, peoples' emotions get taken advantage of and they begin to believe stuff that's just not true.


    I have thought about coming up with my own thing, but I really don't want a following based on fake crap. Then I'd feel like a piece of crap.

    But some folks, as we have witnessed first hand here in text both bold and colored, have no such compunctions.

    And so we need critical thinking more than ever.


    Donal Trump told Bob Woodward more than a year ago that he didn't want to tell the American People because he didn't want them to panic.

    That was his moment of betrayal. We are not children. There is no measure of personal responsibility with that approach.

    And he showed his true colors. He knew he was lying and he knew people would die and he persisted and doubled down.

    And some people idolize him.


    This is the tragic result of a lack of critical thinking.

    And to add insult to injury, programs to prepare for these disasters are being demonized.

    There is no end to the ugliness. People must really want to see other people die. They must really want collapse.
    Last edited by Dreamtimer, 2nd March 2021 at 13:03. Reason: Spelling again

  28. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Dreamtimer For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (2nd March 2021), Chris (2nd March 2021), Elen (2nd March 2021), Emil El Zapato (2nd March 2021), Octopus Garden (4th March 2021), Wind (3rd March 2021)

  29. #1050
    Retired Member Norway
    Join Date
    2nd July 2015
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    5,065
    Thanks
    73,935
    Thanked 23,318 Times in 5,067 Posts
    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    The energy spent looking for lies and hoaxes is wasted. It could be energy spent on helping people and the environment. Helping animals and making music.

    Fear combined with a smattering of facts does not seem to be serving anyone. I haven't witnessed a benefit.

    When a balance of the alternative and the regular happens, a person can sift out the good stuff from wherever it abides.

    Without critical thinking, without looking a a wide array of sources, peoples' emotions get taken advantage of and they begin to believe stuff that's just not true.


    I have thought about coming up with my own thing, but I really don't want a following based on fake crap. Then I'd feel like a piece of crap.

    But some folks, as we have witnessed first hand here in text both bold and colored, have no such compunctions.

    And so we need critical thinking more than ever.



    Donal Trump told Bob Woodward more than a year ago that he didn't want to tell the America People because he didn't want them to panic.

    That was his moment of betrayal. We are not children. There is no measure of personal responsibility with that approach.

    And he showed his true colors. He knew he was lying and he knew people would die and he persisted and doubled down.

    And some people idolize him.


    This is the tragic result of a lack of critical thinking.

    And to add insult to injury, programs to prepare for these disasters are being demonized.

    There is no end to the ugliness. People must really want to see other people die. They must really want collapse.
    Eloquently said Dreamtimer... to that.

  30. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Elen For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (2nd March 2021), Chris (2nd March 2021), Dreamtimer (2nd March 2021), Emil El Zapato (2nd March 2021), Octopus Garden (4th March 2021), Wind (3rd March 2021)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •