World War Three

[Lord Sidious]

I don't think anything like that could ever be proven, same as the planned spreading of Smallpox ridden blankets to the natives over here back in the day. Hidden hand activity, so far as I've seen anyway, can never be pointed to directly.

You know, I've long thought of adding Germany's story to this menagerie as well. From #18's connections to bankers, elites, even to his early on piano player, lots to raise a Spock like eyebrow to.

Never seen empire aspirations as being part of the historical fabric of today's current boogeymen, Russia and China. Same with co boogeymen North Korea and Iran. I don't recall the Ottoman Empire as having any designs on world domination either.

Even wikipedia talks about the debt.
Check it out for yourself.............

[Chris]

I've got a rough draft theory that seen from the proverbial 50,000 feet, England used the American colonies and what they were later to become, as a proxy to blaze the way west for them because of the massive manpower it would take. This would of course mean that at the very highest levels, there never was the great separation that it appeared to be. One example would be that it seems the British schooled their prodigy quite well in the fine art of using Intelligence as an invisible weapon, and I tend to think it would be right up the ally of British type Intelligence work to make heading west look sexy, and to make sure gold would be found at opportune times when the pace got too slow, or stalled.

I can Australia in a similar light.

I'm not sure that theory makes sense. Losing the 13 Colonies was a huge blow to the Brits and Australia was a consolation price in that regard. For one, they resumed transporting their lower classes to somewhere sufficiently far away, where they'd be out of sight. Come to think of it, they're still doing that...

Yeah, but I see him more on the street thug level. While intelligent, he's not a student of anything, and he's not intellectually curious enough IMO to have attained the required knowledge base to be join the fraternity of wanna be empire builders.

True. It is said that Barack Obama and Seth Meyers's WHCD roasting of him was what prompted him to run for president in the first place, just to prove them wrong. As a rich accomplished man, he certainly didn't need to do it for money and fame.

[Chris]

It's all the anglo saxon empire.
Not long ago, an historian won a case in the high court over the release of papers written by a former governor general to the queen.
One ex prime minister wrote that the letters looked like an office reporting to their head office...........
America is not and never was out of control of the brits.
Guess who lent your ancestors the money to fight the brits?
The king of the uk and the king of france

Some truth to it in terms of the Commonwealth Realms, as technically they're still owned by the Queen (according to the book Who Owns the World, at least). I do not believe that would be the case with the US, but certainly the UK still has considerable influence over US foreign policy, via the Round Table (founded by Cecil Rhodes) and the trilateral commission.

But to me, it seems that starting from WW1 the elites in Britain have become ever more impoverished, whilst those in the US continue getting ever richer. A typical example is how after ww2, Indian immigrants swooped in and bought up the swanky houses of the impoverished aristocracy, split them into tiny apartments and rented them out. A friend of mine used to live in one of those.

If you look at Britain, it barely has any home-grown billionaires, the ones that actually live there are often Russian, Indian or Arab. If Britain still runs the world, then how come its ruling elite has fallen so fast and hard? Something doesn't add up there.

[Aragorn]

Trump wants to "Make America Great Again",

Yeah, but I see him more on the street thug level. While intelligent, he's not a student of anything, and he's not intellectually curious enough IMO to have attained the required knowledge base to be join the fraternity of wanna be empire builders.

I wouldn't call Donald Trump intelligent. Sly, yes. Devious, yes. And a thug, absolutely. But intelligent, nahhh.

[Fred Steeves]

I'm not sure that theory makes sense. Losing the 13 Colonies was a huge blow to the Brits and Australia was a consolation price in that regard. For one, they resumed transporting their lower classes to somewhere sufficiently far away, where they'd be out of sight. Come to think of it, they're still doing that...

Perhaps it doesn't make any sense, that very well could be Chris, were sufficient holes to be put in the notion, I'd just cut the line and let it drift on off with the tide to the land of bad ideas. Thing is I've never really thought it through, it's just a little nagging "what if..."

So let's see here - Sure, losing the colonies would certainly have been a staggering blow to the Brits, on many fronts. But suppose there really is this level in the hierarchy, similar to a rocket punching through the last level of the atmosphere and into space, where the laws of physics change. "The Hidden Hand" so to speak, might just see it as nothing more than sacrificing a rook to take the queen on the great chessboard. The rook has served well, but now attention begins to shift to the new embodiment of our own queen, and that would be the future of these rag tag colonies.

"We have big plans for them my Precious!"

and Australia was a consolation price in that regard. For one, they resumed transporting their lower classes to somewhere sufficiently far away, where they'd be out of sight. Come to think of it, they're still doing that...

It's kind of strange to see, but around here some people rent goats to help clear a plot of land. Just fence them on in there and let them do their thing. I don't see any reason why masses of people couldn't be used in a similar manner. They don't even need to be fenced in, sooner or later they'll run into an ocean or some other comparable power. They can be guided this way and that just like a few cowboys on horseback can drive a herd of cattle.

After all this time Australia still has vast stretches of wild, why get your hands dirty when you can just bring in the goats? Kills two birds with just one stone.

[Aragorn]

So let's see here - Sure, losing the colonies would certainly have been a staggering blow to the Brits, on many fronts. But suppose there really is this level in the hierarchy, similar to a rocket punching through the last level of the atmosphere and into space, where the laws of physics change. "The Hidden Hand" so to speak, might just see it as nothing more than sacrificing a rook to take the queen on the great chessboard. The rook has served well, but now attention begins to shift to the new embodiment of our own queen, and that would be the future of these rag tag colonies.

Personally, I don't believe that the UK would still hold that much power. They are certainly not without it either ─ MI5/6 is still quite active ─ but at present time, they are suffering the big backlash of Brexit, which has cost them most of their sway on the European mainland.

Elsewhere in the world, the CIA and the US military-industrial complex have already long ago supplanted the British crown as the man behind the curtain, and especially so because the USA is an actively expanding empire, whereas the former British and French empires have already long been on the decline due to internal issues ─ something the US empire has always paid far less attention to than said aforementioned former empires. It is rather my belief that whatever international sway the British still hold would be because they themselves are being used as assets by the USA.

[Dreamtimer]

Goats serve that purpose around here as well, Fred. A field can get clogged seemingly overnight with honeysuckle, multiflora rose, bittersweet, fox grape, spice bush, myriad thorny plants, and on and on. Goats just munch away.


Economies are still about resources. Which is why the US wants to keep expanding its empire. Perhaps the anglo-saxon empire is centered in the US now? The United Snakes?

The long game would be the resources in China, but there's the little problem of billions living there and a powerful government.

And the anglo-saxon empire might not be prepared for the ultimate adversary, mother earth and the solar system. There's too much hubris around to believe that they've played the long game on that one. Too much denial. They can't control the sun, despite wanting people to believe that they can. They can't control the climate, though they may be trying their darnedest.

[Chris]

Personally, I don't believe that the UK would still hold that much power. They are certainly not without it either ─ MI5/6 is still quite active ─ but at present time, they are suffering the big backlash of Brexit, which has cost them most of their sway on the European mainland.

Elsewhere in the world, the CIA and the US military-industrial complex have already long ago supplanted the British crown as the man behind the curtain, and especially so because the USA is an actively expanding empire, whereas the former British and French empires have already long been on the decline due to internal issues ─ something the US empire has always paid far less attention to than said aforementioned former empires. It is rather my belief that whatever international sway the British still hold would be because they themselves are being used as assets by the USA.

I tend to agree with Aragorn.

Suspecting Britain to be the secret rulers of the world has a particular history in the US and belongs to the paranoid streak of US politics. I'm not saying there's absolutely no truth to it, particularly when it comes to commonwealth realms (Australia, Canada, New Zealand), etc..., but as regards the US, it seems the influence is mostly in the other direction and Britain is clearly a junior partner.

I remember seeing a video from years ago, about a US representative frothing at the mouth in congress, rambling on about how the British Empire was still around and secretly controlling the US. I think this is very much about US insecurities and a lingering inferiority complex that has never really gone away. Notice how Americans still defer to the British Accent. I used it very effectively at work when dealing with angry US clients. Nothing calms them down more than affecting the poshest RP accent you can muster.

[Fred Steeves]

Personally, I don't believe that the UK would still hold that much power. They are certainly not without it either ─ MI5/6 is still quite active ─ but at present time, they are suffering the big backlash of Brexit, which has cost them most of their sway on the European mainland.

Yes, exactly. In a rough sense the UK would have been the sacrificed rook in this scenario. It's like the nation states would only be seen as tools, vehicles, petri dishes, etc. Germany of the first half of the 20th century would have been all three. Look to not only the extent to which they were a major player in reshaping the world, but also that it's essence, what grew out of that petri dish, lived on through Paperclip and is still a major world influencer albeit in invisible form. Especially in the US.

The vehicle, the tool that the Third Reich was could be discarded with "mission accomplished", same as the UK as an empire, and in due time the United States will have exhausted her role as well.

But how much power do these Intel agencies really have? I think that's really something to take a long hard look at. Something Alex Jones said years ago stuck with me, back before Trump melted his brain, and that was what do you find at the top of every Intel agency? A secret society. Of course that's where this gets into a bit of the woo factor, but really, we can see lower examples all around us of how the few can control the many. I've always thought of farming as one such good example in the as above so below. The animals and the crops have no clue what the farmer has in mind, everyone just has their role to play.

Just a relative few in key positions, can certainly be "The Farmer".

If this were true, or even close to it, wouldn't that place all the handwringing about this country and that, into the category of the shadows on the walls of Plato's Cave? That fucking changes everything.

[Chris]

Yes, exactly. In a rough sense the UK would have been the sacrificed rook in this scenario. It's like the nation states would only be seen as tools, vehicles, petri dishes, etc. Germany of the first half of the 20th century would have been all three. Look to not only the extent to which they were a major player in reshaping the world, but also that it's essence, what grew out of that petri dish, lived on through Paperclip and is still a major world influencer albeit in invisible form. Especially in the US.

The vehicle, the tool that the Third Reich was could be discarded with "mission accomplished", same as the UK as an empire, and in due time the United States will have exhausted her role as well.

But how much power do these Intel agencies really have? I think that's really something to take a long hard look at. Something Alex Jones said years ago stuck with me, back before Trump melted his brain, and that was what do you find at the top of every Intel agency? A secret society. Of course that's where this gets into a bit of the woo factor, but really, we can see lower examples all around us of how the few can control the many. I've always thought of farming as one such good example in the as above so below. The animals and the crops have no clue what the farmer has in mind, everyone just has their role to play.

Just a relative few in key positions, can certainly be "The Farmer".

If this were true, or even close to it, wouldn't that place all the handwringing about this country and that, into the category of the shadows on the walls of Plato's Cave? That fucking changes everything.

I think we're in John Birch society / Infowars / David Icke territory here.

I'm well familiar with these theories, but I'm also sceptical of them.

My big beef is with the idea that Britain would be ruling anything when it has been in decline for at least a century. The US certainly dominated the latter half of the 20 th century, but has also been in decline for decades now. They do not seem like Imperiums in their prime to me.

If they're ruled by secret elites and secret societies, they're pretty rubbish ones.

Witness how thoroughly outclassed the Etonian, Oxford / Cambridge educated ruling class in the UK appears to be with the events of Brexit and the Pandemic completely overcoming them and rendering them helpless, blithering idiots. Are Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage and Jacob-Rees Mogg really the best the hidden hand could come up with to take Britain into a Brave New World of swashbuckling global empire 2.0?

The US doesn't come off any better, whether it was under Biden or Trump, just seriously outclassed on every front by its rivals. It does not seem to me that either country is run by competent, supervillainy elites, but rather by a collection of seriously out-of-touch blithering idiots presiding over societies that are in the terminal stages of decline.

[Dreamtimer]

Nothing calms them down more than affecting the poshest RP accent you can muster.

Now there's a funny/sad. It's so true. I haven't tried it myself. Hmmm.........


Interesting idea, Fred.

Logically, if you have a job you simply cannot discuss, then a special club would be the only outlet. You'd want to be around others on the inside so you can speak freely (sort of).

And of course, like the business deals at the golf clubs, if you're at the top of the food chain and want to stay there, you'll collude, conspire, etc. and would need a secret society for that.

The intelligence services are stovepiped. They don't really play well with others. They don't share well. So if there are competing secret societies at the top... I'd find it hard to believe in just one overarching group. They would never be able to control all the separate parts. Secret Societies need hierarchies, which means power shifts and ensuing shifts in focus/resources.

I just don't think the idea works. Not with humans anyway. Which is perhaps why alien races were brought into the discussion. All bets are off then and all kinds of claims can be made.


Personally, I can settle for focusing on the societies known to exist and known to be screwing with things, like The Family or Opus Dei.

[Fred Steeves]

I think we're in John Birch society / Infowars / David Icke territory here.

Okay, so I'm game for having my rough theory being shot full of holes, but if this is how I'm coming across I'm doing a very poor job of explaining myself. I'm not just here regurgitating other ideas, so far I've not heard anyone else putting this forth.

My big beef is with the idea that Britain would be ruling anything when it has been in decline for at least a century. The US certainly dominated the latter half of the 20 th century, but has also been in decline for decades now. They do not seem like Imperiums in their prime to me.

Then once again I must be doing a poor job of explaining myself, been doing my best to say pretty much the opposite, that Great Britain ain't in charge of shit save for the influence of the MI's. I'm saying all these major western powers would be being used as chess pieces, and chess pieces can and are sacrificed for "the greater good" of the end goal.

If they're ruled by secret elites and secret societies, they're pretty rubbish ones.

Witness how thoroughly outclassed the Etonian, Oxford / Cambridge educated ruling class in the UK appears to be with the events of Brexit and the Pandemic completely overcoming them and rendering them helpless, blithering idiots. Are Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage and Jacob-Rees Mogg really the best the hidden hand could come up with to take Britain into a Brave New World of swashbuckling global empire 2.0?

You're saying that not me. I'm not talking about politicians, and neither am I talking about GB reascending into a Brave New World of swashbuckling global empire 2.0. Again, quite the opposite, GB is long since finished as an empire.

The US doesn't come off any better, whether it was under Biden or Trump, just seriously outclassed on every front by its rivals. It does not seem to me that either country is run by competent, supervillainy elites, but rather by a collection of seriously out-of-touch blithering idiots presiding over societies that are in the terminal stages of decline.

You don't think that America's Military Industrial Complex still exerts major influence around the world? Last I checked she still rules the 7 seas, and has 900 some military bases in 70 some different countries. The upper echelon elites I'd be pointing at here, couldn't give a rat's ass about the woes of society.

The intelligence services are stovepiped. They don't really play well with others. They don't share well. So if there are competing secret societies at the top... I'd find it hard to believe in just one overarching group. They would never be able to control all the separate parts. Secret Societies need hierarchies, which means power shifts and ensuing shifts in focus/resources.

Fair point, you made me have to think on that one. Try this one out for size and see what you think: For all the competing hierarchies within the US Military Industrial Complex, how does the manner in which they operate stay steady and true over the long haul in spite of not only that, but many many different presidents and congresses? I would tend to surmise that there's less and less of the competing hierarchies, the higher and higher you go in the ranks of the power players. If the capstone of the pyramid says jump, everyone below will dutifully answer "how high?" Even from my own brief and low lever military experience, I saw how that works first hand.

Why wouldn't the secret societies be of generally the same nature and structure?

I don't think militias are near as dangerous as many might believe, for the simple fact that they have virtually zero state wide control structures, much less nationwide. If they tried to gather their forces in an attempt to attain any said goal, I have to imagine it would somewhat resemble a Tower of Babel type of event not just with the communication, but with the different philosophies, different ideas of how and what should be done, how it should be accomplished, all of that. There's no pyramid structure in place.

[Lord Sidious]

It's kind of strange to see, but around here some people rent goats to help clear a plot of land. Just fence them on in there and let them do their thing. I don't see any reason why masses of people couldn't be used in a similar manner. They don't even need to be fenced in, sooner or later they'll run into an ocean or some other comparable power. They can be guided this way and that just like a few cowboys on horseback can drive a herd of cattle.

After all this time Australia still has vast stretches of wild, why get your hands dirty when you can just bring in the goats? Kills two birds with just one stone.

That is exactly what this colony is all about.
A prime minister even said on national tv live that this ''nation was begun as an economic project by the crown''

Personally, I don't believe that the UK would still hold that much power. They are certainly not without it either ─ MI5/6 is still quite active ─ but at present time, they are suffering the big backlash of Brexit, which has cost them most of their sway on the European mainland.

Elsewhere in the world, the CIA and the US military-industrial complex have already long ago supplanted the British crown as the man behind the curtain, and especially so because the USA is an actively expanding empire, whereas the former British and French empires have already long been on the decline due to internal issues ─ something the US empire has always paid far less attention to than said aforementioned former empires. It is rather my belief that whatever international sway the British still hold would be because they themselves are being used as assets by the USA.

Incorrectomundo.
Every single president with the exception of Martin Van Buren and possible Biden are descendants of the king of england.
You don't have to control things visibly to be behind the curtain.
Why would the brits keep a huge military when they have a 320 million population they can use instead?

Perhaps the anglo-saxon empire is centered in the US now? The United Snakes?

The military division of it is, for sure.
The political wing is still in London.

but as regards the US, it seems the influence is mostly in the other direction and Britain is clearly a junior partner.

I remember seeing a video from years ago, about a US representative frothing at the mouth in congress, rambling on about how the British Empire was still around and secretly controlling the US. I think this is very much about US insecurities and a lingering inferiority complex that has never really gone away.

I would suggest you need to do a lot more research on this topic.

I think we're in John Birch society / Infowars / David Icke territory here.

I'm well familiar with these theories, but I'm also sceptical of them.

My big beef is with the idea that Britain would be ruling anything when it has been in decline for at least a century. The US certainly dominated the latter half of the 20 th century, but has also been in decline for decades now. They do not seem like Imperiums in their prime to me.

And yet look at the size of the us military, how much of the planet is owned by brits and so on.
Decline is relative to how you're defining it............

[Chris]

Okay, so I'm game for having my rough theory being shot full of holes, but if this is how I'm coming across I'm doing a very poor job of explaining myself. I'm not just here regurgitating other ideas, so far I've not heard anyone else putting this forth.



Then once again I must be doing a poor job of explaining myself, been doing my best to say pretty much the opposite, that Great Britain ain't in charge of shit save for the influence of the MI's. I'm saying all these major western powers would be being used as chess pieces, and chess pieces can and are sacrificed for "the greater good" of the end goal.



You're saying that not me. I'm not talking about politicians, and neither am I talking about GB reascending into a Brave New World of swashbuckling global empire 2.0. Again, quite the opposite, GB is long since finished as an empire.

Well then, you should make it clear what your position is, otherwise it's just a guessing game.

You don't think that America's Military Industrial Complex still exerts major influence around the world? Last I checked she still rules the 7 seas, and has 900 some military bases in 70 some different countries. The upper echelon elites I'd be pointing at here, couldn't give a rat's ass about the woes of society.

Sure, militarily it is still top dog, otherwise, not so much. The issue here is the hollowing out of its economy and industrial base, without which any military advantage will always be temporary.

Fair point, you made me have to think on that one. Try this one out for size and see what you think: For all the competing hierarchies within the US Military Industrial Complex, how does the manner in which they operate stay steady and true over the long haul in spite of not only that, but many many different presidents and congresses? I would tend to surmise that there's less and less of the competing hierarchies, the higher and higher you go in the ranks of the power players. If the capstone of the pyramid says jump, everyone below will dutifully answer "how high?" Even from my own brief and low lever military experience, I saw how that works first hand.

Why wouldn't the secret societies be of generally the same nature and structure?

The military-industrial complex is a real thing, but it's mostly about business and making money. It is a giant racket like most systems in American life. As for the secret societies, I'm increasingly convinced they're little more than frat boys with an overgrown sense of importance. Exception would be the CFR, Round Table and similar think tanks and organisation which do exert long-term influence on policy and are often secretive and exclusive. It is also at this level, that the UK has the largest influence over US events.

I don't think militias are near as dangerous as many might believe, for the simple fact that they have virtually zero state wide control structures, much less nationwide. If they tried to gather their forces in an attempt to attain any said goal, I have to imagine it would somewhat resemble a Tower of Babel type of event not just with the communication, but with the different philosophies, different ideas of how and what should be done, how it should be accomplished, all of that. There's no pyramid structure in place.

I think Trump is building one, even if informally.

[Chris]

That is exactly what this colony is all about.
A prime minister even said on national tv live that this ''nation was begun as an economic project by the crown''

Yes, that much is pretty clear. To quote the author of Who Owns the World?, an excellent book, I might add, the demise of the British Empire has been much exaggerated.

Incorrectomundo.
Every single president with the exception of Martin Van Buren and possible Biden are descendants of the king of england.
You don't have to control things visibly to be behind the curtain.
Why would the brits keep a huge military when they have a 320 million population they can use instead?

This is an oft-repeated conspiracy theory but I have never seen any actual proof. The whole Fritz Springmeier thing is a bit suspect in my mind, though he was certainly right about the British royals being related to Vlad the Impaler.

The military division of it is, for sure.
The political wing is still in London.

Again, conspiracy theory, but proof is thin on the ground. The best I could find was a scholarly and very complicated book that explored the founding of the Round Table (by Cecil Rhodes and co.) and how it led to the creation of the CFR and the Trilateral commission. Still, this is mere influence-peddling in my view, much like with the Israel and Irish lobbies, rather than an actual case of the tail wagging the dog.

I would suggest you need to do a lot more research on this topic.

I have and much of it revolves around lizard people and the Illuminataheaheaheahe
99 percent of it is utter rubbish, if you ask me.

And yet look at the size of the us military, how much of the planet is owned by brits and so on.
Decline is relative to how you're defining it............

A strong military does not protect you from the rot within, or social, cultural and economic collapse. Just ask the Soviets and the North Koreans. Or have a look at the Collapse thread.