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Thread: You Are Not Your Thoughts

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    You Are Not Your Thoughts

    Just come across this and although I have heard this before, would love to hear others points of view >



    What you try to do is you try to push out some things and keep the others. That is the mistake. You say this is good, that is evil. That is the problem. You say this is sacred, this is profane. That is the problem. You have to accept all that is there. You accept the most beautiful thoughts and you have to accept the most terrible thoughts because they are all happening inside of you. That is the truth.

    Thoughts are millions of years old. They are not your thoughts. They are just flowing through you. Thats all. The structure of thoughts does not change. Only the object has changed. Thought has remained the same. Thought is essentially measurement. It is comparison. Ancient man was measure and comparing. You also do. He was comparing how many cows he had, how much the neighbor had. You are comparing how many cars you have, how many the neighbor has.

    Comparing is thought. It is measurement. All thought is measurement. It is comparison. It does not change. They are not your thoughts. They are there. So your thoughts are not your thoughts.

    Your mind. What is the mind? The mind is full of thoughts and the mind is a human mind. Its very, very ancient. The same structure: fear, jealously, anger, hatred, worry about the past, worrying about the future. It has not changed at all. Only the objects have change. Desire is there. You had desire for a spear. You have desire for money. Thats all. You had fear of the saber-toothed tiger. You have fear of the share market. Thats all. The structure is the same and the mind is very, very ancient. So your mind is not your mind. Its very, very ancient. It is just there. You assume it is yours. So your mind is not your mind.

    Your body. Your body is not your body. You did not design your body. It was designed millions of years ago. The same structure: the nose is here, the ear is here, breathe in oxygen, give out carbon dioxide. Its been the same for millions of years. You did not design it. You did not create it. You did not conceive it. You did nothing in fact. How come it is your body? Its not your body at all. You have to think about it. Contemplate on that.

    Then the self, the sense of separation. Thats again an illusion. It depends upon how fast the senses are coordinatingslightly slow down, the sense of separation is gone. There is only oneness. You dont exist as an independent entity at all. There is no separate existence. Not at all. Just another big illusion. Your self is only a concept.

    Now how to understand this? A very simple example would help you understand this. Mainly the dress that youre wearing, you did not design the dress. You did not tailor that dress. You did not weave the textile in the textile mill. You did not grow the cotton or create the polyester that has gone into the dress. In no way are you involved with the dress. How do you say it is your dress? Its not at all your dress.

    Similarly your thoughts are not your thoughts. Your mind is not your mind. Your body is not your body. The self is only a concept. The moment you become awakened youre out of all this and you see your thoughts automatically happening. You see your speech automatically happening and you see your actions. You may think youre moving your arm by your control. Its not so. You can watch the brain in real time. Moments before you decide to move your hand the brain had decided to move the hand. Its only the illusion that you have decided to move your hand.

    Now the problem is youre identifying yourself with your thoughts, with your mind, with your body and the so-called self. This we call anatma. Anatma in Sanskrit which means false identification. And why is there this false identification? Because of what we call in Sanskrit pragnaparada or failure of intelligence which is what we try to awaken in level 2. Because of failure of intelligence youre having wrong identification which leads to a sense of separation. The sense of separation is the cause of all problems. All problems inside yourself are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems with the family are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems in your country are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems in the world arise because of this sense of separation.

    If you remove the sense of separation then there are no problems in the individual, no problems in the family, no problems in the nation, no problems in the world. That is the root cause of all problems. To be free of the self is the only revolution.

    The only solution to all our problems is to ultimately awaken where we lose this sense of separation. That is the real problem

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    Hi Aianawa, very interesting, may you share your reference on this!

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    Senior Member Maunagarjana's Avatar
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    Yes, you are not your thoughts, not your emotions, not your body, not your personality, and not even your mind. You are experiencing these things and identifying with them, but they do not define you. You exist beyond them all. You *have* those things. But to say you *have them* is to suggest that you are *not them*. So, who has these things? Who is the owner and operator of this confounded mind?

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    You are your taughts

    The body is just a shell to house your conscious if you improve your taughts you change your life there is more secret knowledge

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    Senior Member Catsquotl's Avatar
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    reading the abidhamma as we speak.
    will get back once understanding has set in.

    seems we are just life experiencing itself due to dependend arisings of conditions.

    With Love
    Eelco
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    Senior Member Maunagarjana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by jonsnow View Post
    You are your taughts

    The body is just a shell to house your conscious if you improve your taughts you change your life there is more secret knowledge
    While there is truth in what you say about how improving your thoughts can change your life, it does not mean you are them. It's more like you are the intent behind your thoughts. But that intent is coming from something beyond your seemingly individuated mind. The thoughts themselves, they are no more you than the books on your shelf or the money in your pocket. The best way I can think to illustrate it is to put it in the context of reincarnation.

    Think of all your past lives, and all the people that you were, and all the thoughts those people had. People that were in some cases, perhaps, very different from you. Would you say that those thoughts in those other incarnations represent who you are now? And does who you are now really represent who you are ultimately? We may actually be dancing thoughts, but they are not our thoughts, meaning the thoughts that pop in and out of our heads. We are the thoughts of an infinite intelligence that is the source of all being. And all of those thoughts that make up our being can be traced back to one original thought.

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    Senior Member Catsquotl's Avatar
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    As some may know I have sort of drifted towards Theravadan buddhism over the last few years.
    From that point of view there are six sense objects that link to six sense-conscousness states.

    Eye - eye-consciousness or seeing.
    Ear - ear-consciousness or hearing.
    Nose - nose-consciousness or smelling
    Tongue - tongue consciousness or tasting
    Skin - skin-consciousness or touching
    Mind - mind-consciousness or Thinking.

    Seen in this way a thought is nothing more that a view.
    Somehow we find it easy to see that a view is not self.
    But as we misunderstand what thoughts are we tend to think we are the thoughts mind and mind-consciousness let us experience. When in fact there is supposedly no difference between that process and the process of seeing or hearing.

    These 6 sense bases or sense sphere's are all that make up our reality. they are the source of everything we experience. A sight, sound or other sense object is usually if not always the root of the dichotomy that follows. a smell, hmm nice or ieuw awful or maybe neutral. from which arise feelings of joy, disgust or neutrality towards it. etc etc etc..

    Nothing there to define a root self to whome it is experiencing. not even a root or original thought. Just states of mind. Arising and passing away....

    With Love
    Eelco
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    All you carry is your experiences memory's you arrive and leave naked. beyond that maunagarjana I do not understand

    only the now exists we are here to experience things learn by doing


    If you have successful taught you will be successful well yes but taught are not enough you have to live the experience before you experience it and the stronger the experience the better how strong very taste , smell , see , hear , touch watch what happens

    Why

    Okay right there are blind spots in your vision ( in everyone ) the mind fills in the spots by making things up . Mind cannot tell what is real or not so if you change your experience you change you .

    feeling good does not change things or doing the most fun thing you can imagine what a crook channel are ................ ............ ..............

    create what you wish do not beg or ask

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    Senior Member Angelrising's Avatar
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    I am absolutely IN LOVE with this thread and discussion!

    Name:  image.jpg
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    f this was the only thing I ever read on TOT, it would have been time well spent. This is some of the most profound wisdom in its simplicity, yet so easy to blow past because it does not seem "exciting!"

    I may have something to add later that speaks to the topic, but I just wanted to thank you all for your contributions to this topic. It has illuminated so much within me that I have intuitively understood but hadn't a framework with which to further integrate it.

    Many thanks!!!!
    Last edited by Angelrising, 9th April 2015 at 19:15.

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    Senior Member Maunagarjana's Avatar
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    I try not to be too attached to any conceptual views, including even Buddhist dogma. There is always more to learn.

    I try to keep this in mind from the Simsapa Sutta:

    Once the Blessed One was staying at Kosambi in the Simsapa forest. Then, picking up a few Simsapa leaves with his hand, he asked the monks, “What do you think, monks: Which are more numerous, the few Simsapa leaves in my hand or those overhead in the Simsapa forest?”

    “The leaves in the hand of the Blessed One are few in number, lord. Those overhead in the forest are far more numerous.”

    “In the same way, monks, those things that I have known with direct knowledge but have not taught are far more numerous than what I have taught. And why haven’t I taught them? Because they are not connected with the goal, do not relate to the rudiments of the holy life, and do not lead to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to calm, to direct knowledge, to self-awakening, to Unbinding. That is why I have not taught them.
    The Buddha had a very specific goal for his teachings. But he knew a lot more than what he said.
    Last edited by Maunagarjana, 9th April 2015 at 19:44.

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    How about we are not our thoughts as Maunagarjana but also I propose we are not here to learn or experience.
    We might be here for another reason but because we have been detached from our true self for such a long time we are finding it difficult to remember why we came in the first place. At least I feel this way. I feel I don't know what is the real reason for being here. I know experiencing is not my purpose. For example what is the point to experience pain or sorrow or lost so many times in so many incarnations? I know it is always different experience, yes but it is still a pain. I don't like the idea to be born in a body without remembering anything for the purpose to experience pain again as somebody else. This explanation doesn't satisfy me. And I used pain just as an example. But I still search for answers and I know there is something completely different from the official rumors so to say.

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    Senior Member Catsquotl's Avatar
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    Nice one....

    I have been a searcher for the bigger part of my life. An avid reader and thinker...
    Somehow I still think I need input in the form of some conceptual framework to compare my experiences with...
    In my experience if I don't I stall, and get into all manners of unwholesome states if you will.

    Having been let down by this or that framework I have yet to be let down by the teachings of the Buddha.
    I want to believe the promise of the teaching as bringing "freedom from suffering".
    So far the stories of modern day arahats that did the work so to speak, all say it was a practice worth while..
    So thats what I'll be doing for a while...

    That said, nothing more impermanent than this human being so.....

    With Love
    Eelco
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    Senior Member gardener's Avatar
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    Aianawa thank you for this information its very ( I was going to say thought provoking) so I just have to say I really have to chew it over and over may I say I found this to be one of the most interesting post's, do you have any more information of a similar nature? if you do I would love to hear more again thank you.

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    Senior Member Catsquotl's Avatar
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    Maybe Altaira we are here for no reason at all.
    We don't need to experience anything, we just do.
    Experience just happens. The freedom I'm talking about, enlightenment or nirvana/nibanna is not a prize at the end of it all. It is not THE goal.

    If I understand it correctly enlightenment is nothing more that a clear and whole(istic) understanding of what the nature of reality shows us, from moment to moment.

    Disengaging from the belief that there is an I or a Self that experiences it all or even needs to go through it to reach something is helpful (so i'm told) to get a clearer view of reality. Just that.

    In order to get a clear view, don't identify with it.
    I have also come to understand that even enlightened ones still have to do the laundry. Help raise the kids and all that.
    Even stressful states arise in them, but by not identifying that stressful state one is able to cary on without suffering from it.
    again this is my meager understanding of it now.

    With Love
    Eelco
    The thank you button. I tend to often just forget to click it. So please don't infer any meaning to wether I clicked it or not.

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    Altaira there is no detached from your true self this is not possible you will live the experience until you had enough might be 1000 life times from now or 1 or never only you decide there is no judge only you . if your true self left you would die I think I not sure it is not a topic I ever taught of

    When you change your taught action your experience will change and only then act according is the secret how would your ideal self act think behave eat care socialise (feel is the most important )

    you can design your body or any part of your life
    Last edited by jonsnow, 9th April 2015 at 20:57.

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