Bill Still Reporting on the US Election (& Other Things)

[modwiz]

Since you admit to being a Master Mason, modwiz (which for those who may not know is the 3rd degree and traditionally is the highest degree), I guess I don't have to tell you that not all Freemasons are actually evil. I know a lot of other people get that idea. I have family that used to be active in the masons and one of my uncles in particular is one of the most generous and kind-hearted guys you could meet, and I know he sincerely believes that the lodge he belonged to were good people. The evil connotations of the word "Lucifer" are likewise modern and become an anachronism when placed back into previous centuries, when it simply referred to the "morning star," ie the planet Venus.

Usually when people think of Freemasonry they think of the secretive meetings of influential people and the deals they make, but they don't think of the medieval Scots under English subjugation or the French who believed that their monarchs had become corrupt and ineffective, and that they needed to eradicate class distinctions and create some semblance of equality in society. And I doubt they think of the fact that the masons were hiding a lot of things under the eyes of Catholic inquisitors who were hellbent on stomping these kinds of heresies out of existence.

I know A LOT about Freemasons, including the 3rd degree being the highest, being the Master part of Mason, and their history and how it interfaces with history in general. What we need to do as a society is focus on our task. The Masons in my lodge and others I have met are some of the finest men I've known. So much good work comes out of the Blue Lodges. However, these good men are largely ignorant and asleep about the world they do their good works in. My whole focus is on things for us to do to achieve freedom. I do not seek to entertain with 'facts' and stuff.

There is so much ignorance and confusion about Masons, I do not have the time to dispel it. I ignore it, for the most part.

[bsbray]

I guess this is Bill's wife:

SR 1221 – Beth: How Could Any Woman Vote for Crooked Hillary Clinton?

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMlnMJH5u-g

[bsbray]

And an interesting article from the Daily Mail in Britain:

Majority of snap polls show Trump won debate by a landslide despite CNN's overwhelming victory for Hillary in biggest official survey

CNN's snap poll gave Clinton the win with 62 per cent to Trump's 27
But most of the others reported Trump was the winner by a landslide
The pair engaged in a vigorous back-and-forth at Hofstra University
Here, we present the results from snap polls conducted after the debate

CNN awarded Hillary Clinton an overwhelming victory in the first presidential debate - but most snap polls show Trump emerged victorious.

Trump and Clinton tangled over the economy, her use of a private mail server and his unwillingness to release his income tax returns on Monday night.

They engaged in a vigorous back-and-forth on the debate stage at Hofstra University in Hempstead, New York, as polls showed them locked in a tight race.

However, after the debate's end, polls conducted by a number of media websites showed their readers felt the real estate mogul came out on top.

Trump acknowledged the result, tweeting: 'Wow, did great in the debate polls (except for @CNN - which I don't watch). Thank you!'

CNN/ORC's snap poll, gave Clinton the win with 62 per cent to Trump's 27.

It was the biggest, and fastest, exercise conducted by an opinion polling firm.

The poll of 521 registered voters who watched the debate was a sample which the network warned leaned more Democratic than the average - starting the night with Clinton ahead 26 per cent among the sample.

And while it handed the victory overwhelmingly to Clinton, it was more mixed on whether the debate will make a difference, with 47 per cent saying it would not affect their vote, 34 per cent saying it moved them towards Clinton - and 18 per cent towards Trump.

Online polls carried out afterwards gave a different outcome - handing the title to Trump.

Such polls are self-selecting, and more likely to pick up the views of those who vote, although CNN's study also reflected a similar bias.

The Drudge Report's poll showed Trump fared better with 81.5 per cent of the vote to Clinton's 18.5 while others, including Time, CBS New York and the Washington Times, also saw Trump win the vote.

Clinton edged out Trump in the Star Tribune's poll and one conducted by NBC News.

Here are the some of the results from snap polls:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...landslide.html


They follow with a lot more screenshots of polls than what I posted.

Also note that CNN apparently even admitted that its sample was biased. For CNN to admit that the sample was biased in favor of the liberals is really telling you something, because usually that's the case anyway and they never think it worth mentioning. I guess that explains the great discrepancy between CNN's poll and most other polls.

[Dreamtimer]

This article talks about the polls you cite, bsbray. http://www.businessinsider.com/fox-n...-drudge-2016-9

Is this not part of the nlp you speak of? I find the fact that these polls are self-selecting and people can vote more than once troubling.

I find it troubling though not surprising that the executives have to send this memo to their producers and political team.

From the article:

"Dana Blanton, the vice president of public-opinion research at Fox News, explained in the memo obtained by Business Insider that "online 'polls' like the one on Drudge, Time, etc. where people can opt-in or self-select … are really just for fun."

"As the Fox News executive pointed out, users who participate in such polls must have internet access, be online at the time of the poll, be fans of the website in question, and self-select to participate.

"Another problem — we know some campaigns/groups of supporters encourage people to vote in online polls and flood the results," she wrote. "These quickie click items do not meet our editorial standards.""

In a related vein:

Newt Gingrich was interviewed after the Republican convention. He talked about the dire mood of the voters and pointed to rising crime rates. The interviewer said that crime rates have gone down. He said that's just the liberal media. She pointed out that it's FBI statistics that show the crime rate going down nation-wide over the last twelve years.

Gingrich said he's going to go with the emotions of the voters.

Here's a man who's in the position to reach out to his people with the truth and he actively chooses not to. It's an abdication of responsibility. And apparently part of the nlp. Go for the emotions.

[Dreamtimer]

As requested, here's some word salad that I picked out:

DONALD TRUMP
"But on occasion, four times, we used certain laws that are there. And when Secretary Clinton talks about people that didn’t get paid, first of all they did get paid a lot but taken advantage of the laws of the nation. Now, if you want to change the laws, you've been a long time, change the laws. But I take advantage of the laws of the nation because I am running the company. My obligation right now is to do well for myself, my family, my employees, for my companies."



LESTER HOLT
"Mr. Trump for five years you perpetuated a false claim of the nation's first black president was not a natural-born citizen."

DONALD TRUMP
"I’ll tell you- it’s very simple to say. Sidney Blumenthal works for the campaign and a very close friend of Secretary Clinton. And her campaign manager Patti Doyle went to, during her campaign against President Obama, fought very hard, and you can go look it up, and you can check it out, and if you look at CNN this past week Patti Solis Doyle was on Wolf Blitzer saying that this happened. Blumenthal sent McClatchy, a highly-respected reporter at McClatchy to Kenya to find out about it."



LESTER HOLT
"I'm sorry. I’m just going to follow up. I will let you respond because there is a lot there. We're talking about racial healing in the segment. What do you say to Americans --"

DONALD TRUMP
"I say nothing because I was able to get him to produce it. He should have produced a long time before. I say nothing, but let me just tell you. When you talk about healing, I think that I developed very, very good relationships over the last little while with the African-American community. I think you can see that. And I feel that they really wanted me to come to that conclusion. And I think I did a great job and a great service, not only for the country but even for the president in getting him to produce his birth certificate."


On to world issues.

"And by the way, another one powerful is the worst deal I think I’ve ever seen negotiated that you started is the Iran deal. Iran is one of their biggest trading partners. Iran has power over North Korea. And when they made that horrible deal with Iran, they should have included the fact that they do something with respect to North Korea.

And they should've done something with respect to Yemen and all these other places and when I asked to Secretary Kerry, why didn’t you do that, why didn’t you add other things into the deal? One of the great giveaways of all time, of all time, including four hundred million dollars in cash nobody’s ever seen that before that turned out to be wrong."



LESTER HOLT
"Mr. Trump very quickly. Same question. Will you accept the outcome of the election as the will of the voters?"

DONALD TRUMP
"I want to make America great again. We are a nation that is seriously troubled.

We’re losing our jobs, people are pouring into our country. The other day we were deporting eight hundred people and perhaps they passed the wrong button, they pressed the wrong button, or perhaps worse than that it was corruption. But these people that we were going to deport, for good reason, ended up becoming citizens ended up becoming citizens. And it was 800 and now it turns out it might be 1800 and they don’t even know."

This next and last bit is not word salad. Lester shouldn't have to ask again. The statement of support is almost an addendum.

LESTER HOLT
"Will you accept the outcome of the election?"

DONALD TRUMP
"I want to make America great again. I’m going to be able to do it. I don't believe Hillary will. The answer is if she wins I will absolutely support her."

[modwiz]

Debates in the old days had no moderators. Each person got an allotted time to speak. Back then, respect prevailed for both speakers and listeners. Moderators are little more than 'directors' of the conversation. It is a sham and a disgrace.

[Dreamtimer]

We went to Williamsburg, VA several times. The gardens are beautiful.

In Historic Williamsburg, the re-enactors meet in the town square where certain figures of the town have a debate over the latest issue. There are as many as show, they take turns and follow their debate protocol.

The townspeople come to listen. I enjoyed listening to them use the archaic language.

I imagine they still do this though it's been many years for us.

[bsbray]

This article talks about the polls you cite, bsbray. http://www.businessinsider.com/fox-n...-drudge-2016-9

Is this not part of the nlp you speak of? I find the fact that these polls are self-selecting and people can vote more than once troubling.

Then I guess out of all of these polls none of them are satisfactory (unless you stick with the CNN which poll even they admit was unusually biased) and we have no idea who won the debate by general consensus. Is that the answer? Maybe it was possible to vote multiple times on some of them (which could work both ways as far as that goes) but I don't think out of that long list of polls on the page I linked above that anyone has even went to all of them to see how many work like that. It sounds to me personally like people just don't like how consistent the poll results are outside of MSM's select little club. This is a problem that I'm sure that we'll see much more of in the future because the MSM propaganda machine has finally come up against a democratized social media that exposes its hypocrisy.

Taking online polls is not the same as NLP. NLP is a bunch of psychological techniques for affecting peoples' thoughts and behavior just from the use of language. There are pdfs about it online, for example by Richard Bandler, who was one of the creators of the techniques.

I find it troubling though not surprising that the executives have to send this memo to their producers and political team.

From the article:

"Dana Blanton, the vice president of public-opinion research at Fox News, explained in the memo obtained by Business Insider that "online 'polls' like the one on Drudge, Time, etc. where people can opt-in or self-select … are really just for fun."

I find it just further confirmation that even though Trump is part of the Republican party, not even the corporate heads of Fox News really have his back. Let's not kid ourselves with the idea that the media actually feels a sense of moral duty to make sure everyone has an accurate understanding of current events. Obviously they do not, and Fox News has been one of the most blatant proofs of that under the Bush administration. Fox and all the blatantly "progressive" media outlets have used fake polls for years. So they didn't have to come out with such a statement to downplay online polls, and they've not had a problem with bullshit polls in the past, but yet this time they wanted to make sure they downplayed them. Isn't that interesting.

Newt Gingrich was interviewed after the Republican convention. He talked about the dire mood of the voters and pointed to rising crime rates. The interviewer said that crime rates have gone down. He said that's just the liberal media. She pointed out that it's FBI statistics that show the crime rate going down nation-wide over the last twelve years.

I could point out that it depends on the specific statistics being referenced (because there are actually many different kinds of "crime," you know), but I'll let the New York Times (another liberal outlet) say it for me:

Whether Crime Is Up or Down Depends on Data Being Used

The news from the F.B.I. crime data was alarming: The murder rate rose sharply last year, driven by jumps in several major cities.

Four urban areas — Baltimore, Chicago, Milwaukee and Washington — accounted for about a fifth of the increase in homicides in 2015. Those cities, however, make up only about 1 percent of the nation’s population.

But whether crime is up or down depends on what data is being looked at — and who is doing the looking.

The F.B.I. data showed that violent crime rose about 4 percent last year from 2014, and homicides increased 10.8 percent. Yet crime over all fell in 2015 for the 14th consecutive year.

And the total number of homicides last year was fewer than 20 years ago even as the country’s population increased, criminologists said. There were 19,645 homicides in 1996 in a nation of 265 million; in 2015, there were 15,696 in a population of 321 million.

What that data means, criminologists and police officials said, is that the decline in homicides has been so significant in the last quarter century that sudden increases in the number of killings in just a few cities can skew the entire national picture, even as the country has one of its safest periods on record

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/28/us...ties.html?_r=0

Here's a man who's in the position to reach out to his people with the truth and he actively chooses not to. It's an abdication of responsibility. And apparently part of the nlp. Go for the emotions.

I asked if you wanted to talk about statements you said Trump made which were "meaningless word salads," so we can look examples of those, and that's what I was talking about when I said both Trump and Clinton use NLP. It's actually a very results-oriented system of psychological manipulation that there are books out there on.

[bsbray]

As requested, here's some word salad that I picked out:

DONALD TRUMP
"But on occasion, four times, we used certain laws that are there. And when Secretary Clinton talks about people that didn’t get paid, first of all they did get paid a lot but taken advantage of the laws of the nation. Now, if you want to change the laws, you've been a long time, change the laws. But I take advantage of the laws of the nation because I am running the company. My obligation right now is to do well for myself, my family, my employees, for my companies."

I have no problem understanding the meaning of the words, so what's the problem? This is a guy who has run successful businesses in Manhattan for decades. I'm not sure what kind of illusion people are under, as far as how successful businesses are run in this country, but in Manhattan you don't get there by being nice. "That I can tell you."

LESTER HOLT
"Mr. Trump for five years you perpetuated a false claim of the nation's first black president was not a natural-born citizen."

DONALD TRUMP
"I’ll tell you- it’s very simple to say. Sidney Blumenthal works for the campaign and a very close friend of Secretary Clinton. And her campaign manager Patti Doyle went to, during her campaign against President Obama, fought very hard, and you can go look it up, and you can check it out, and if you look at CNN this past week Patti Solis Doyle was on Wolf Blitzer saying that this happened. Blumenthal sent McClatchy, a highly-respected reporter at McClatchy to Kenya to find out about it."

I can see how all of that would be confusing to someone who doesn't know what Trump is talking about. What Trump is referring to is the fact that yes, it was someone working for the Clinton campaign who began digging into Obama's citizenship status back during the Democratic primaries for the 2008 election. Did you know that?

Bill Still talks about it too, here:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1btCJF5qcI


I remember the birther thing when it was going on strong, and the evidence being cited, and I actually think it was credible just because a lot of it came from the mouths of people who should know, like Obama's own grandmother, who died shortly thereafter. I think Trump still doesn't believe that Obama was born here either but he has to play this game with the media and he's decided to just drop the issue and say he was wrong rather than try to keep it up while also trying to appeal to black voters.

Btw I have a pdf which goes into what relatively little is known about Obama's family history and it is pretty bizarre. This is a guy who was mentored by two ex-Weatherman terrorists (ie the radical Communist terrorist group, Weatherman, that bombed places and killed people back in the 60's) who had by then somehow become professors who retained their radical ideologies. Psychological problems run in his family as his white maternal grandfather (who helped raise him) wanted a boy so bad that the named his own daughter Stanley Jr., and she developed issues of her own from bullying and became either a prostitute or a mistress or escort of some sort, and posed for pornography before getting pregnant by one of the men she was sleeping with (Obama's father). And they used to hire a transvestite as a babysitter for Obama when he was young.

Obama's mother, Stanley Jr., in her porn days:



The idea that he wasn't born in the US is one of the milder details of this guy's life. It just happens to be one which would have legally barred him from the presidency, which I guess is what made it of greater interest than his whacked-out family and Communist educational background.

LESTER HOLT
"I'm sorry. I’m just going to follow up. I will let you respond because there is a lot there. We're talking about racial healing in the segment. What do you say to Americans --"

DONALD TRUMP
"I say nothing because I was able to get him to produce it. He should have produced a long time before. I say nothing, but let me just tell you. When you talk about healing, I think that I developed very, very good relationships over the last little while with the African-American community. I think you can see that. And I feel that they really wanted me to come to that conclusion. And I think I did a great job and a great service, not only for the country but even for the president in getting him to produce his birth certificate."

I remember when that birth certificate was released, it was in a pdf format online and it had been created in layers. When you scan a document is a single (1) layer: the flat, 2D scanned image. Not created in layers with text boxes and all the rest, elements which were clearly visible in the pdf. But that's beside the point. Like I said above, I don't think Trump has really changed his mind on this issue. He's just moving on because he knows that if he says what he really believes, the liberal MSM is just going to further weaponize it against him. So this is how he is handling it and I can understand and respect that.

"And by the way, another one powerful is the worst deal I think I’ve ever seen negotiated that you started is the Iran deal. Iran is one of their biggest trading partners. Iran has power over North Korea. And when they made that horrible deal with Iran, they should have included the fact that they do something with respect to North Korea.

And they should've done something with respect to Yemen and all these other places and when I asked to Secretary Kerry, why didn’t you do that, why didn’t you add other things into the deal? One of the great giveaways of all time, of all time, including four hundred million dollars in cash nobody’s ever seen that before that turned out to be wrong."

All of that is correct. I'm not sure if you are having trouble finding the meanings of the sentences or just aren't familiar with the information he's referring to. Iran and North Korea really are major trading partners. And the cash he is referring to is money that the Obama administration delivered to Iran before the hostages were released, that they keep denying was ransom.

LESTER HOLT
"Mr. Trump very quickly. Same question. Will you accept the outcome of the election as the will of the voters?"

DONALD TRUMP
"I want to make America great again. We are a nation that is seriously troubled.

We’re losing our jobs, people are pouring into our country. The other day we were deporting eight hundred people and perhaps they passed the wrong button, they pressed the wrong button, or perhaps worse than that it was corruption. But these people that we were going to deport, for good reason, ended up becoming citizens ended up becoming citizens. And it was 800 and now it turns out it might be 1800 and they don’t even know."

This next and last bit is not word salad. Lester shouldn't have to ask again. The statement of support is almost an addendum.

LESTER HOLT
"Will you accept the outcome of the election?"

DONALD TRUMP
"I want to make America great again. I’m going to be able to do it. I don't believe Hillary will. The answer is if she wins I will absolutely support her."

That just looks to me like he just didn't want to think about the nightmare prospect of Hillary winning, and I don't either.

This is actually an example of NLP coming out of the moderators in the way they have framed the questions. To have Trump give the last answer to a question that implies he will lose, means the last thing the audience hears from him is Trump talking about losing. Trump's campaign has been built around repeating in various ways that he will win (that's why he says "win" like a million times in a row in some parts of his speeches), which is in itself an NLP tactic of just brute repetition of an idea until it sinks into the subconscious. Others have commented on the same thing, that this is a classic technique.

Rather than me trying to explain what NLP is and how it works in a forum post, if anyone is actually interested they could do a much better job of information themselves of these tactics by flipping through the techniques in this book (and yes I have actually read this entire book myself) :

Trance-formations -- John Grinder & Richard Bandler

A lot of this type of stuff (NLP, body language books, etc.) are marketed towards business people because business is a lot to do with trying to make people see things your way, share your vision and all that. So Trump could easily have had a prior interest in this stuff, and from the way he speaks on the campaign trail I've become convinced that he did. Clinton uses NLP too, but the difference is that Clinton's remarks are always prepared by someone else with the NLP already baked in. I'm sure to some extent that goes on in the Trump campaign too, but Trump is not as much of a script reader or one to memorize long stock answers to questions.

[Elen]

I know A LOT about Freemasons, including the 3rd degree being the highest, being the Master part of Mason, and their history and how it interfaces with history in general. What we need to do as a society is focus on our task. The Masons in my lodge and others I have met are some of the finest men I've known. So much good work comes out of the Blue Lodges. However, these good men are largely ignorant and asleep about the world they do their good works in. My whole focus is on things for us to do to achieve freedom. I do not seek to entertain with 'facts' and stuff.

There is so much ignorance and confusion about Masons, I do not have the time to dispel it. I ignore it, for the most part.

I can see that modwiz, I think of it like this: You can move through a place and change your mind and people think nothing of it. But does walking through a "Bakery" make you a baker?

[bsbray]

We went to Williamsburg, VA several times. The gardens are beautiful.

In Historic Williamsburg, the re-enactors meet in the town square where certain figures of the town have a debate over the latest issue. There are as many as show, they take turns and follow their debate protocol.

I wonder if they're hiring.

I love any place here with colonial architecture, especially in the fall.




The governor's palace:




All of those big brick buildings from that era were where the elite slave-owning plantation owners lived. Most poor people lived in wood shacks that don't survive. The conservatives of the early republic, like Washington, Jefferson and Madison, sought to conserve this aristocratic, slave-holding class of plantation owners in Virginia (no surprise, they were all wealthy slave-holding aristocratic elites from Virginia).

[bsbray]

A little more context for the "birther" stuff -- Obama's life before Chicago politics.




From left to right: Stanley Armour Dunham, Stanley Ann Dunham, Obama's sister Maya Soetoro-Ng (whose father was an Indonesian businessman, Lolo Soetoro), and Barack Obama.

Wikipedia on Stanley Dunham, the grandpa:

On November 25, 1926, at age 8, Dunham discovered his mother's body after she had committed suicide. Following his mother's suicide, his father placed Stanley and his older brother Ralph Emerson Dunham, Jr. in the care of their maternal grandparents in El Dorado, Kansas.[7] A rebellious teenager, Stanley allegedly punched his high school principal and spent some time drifting, hopping rail cars to Chicago, California, and back again.[8] Dunham married Madelyn Lee Payne on May 5, 1940, the night of Madelyn's senior prom.[9]

On the other Stanley (Obama's mom):

According to Dunham, she was named after her father because he wanted a son, though her relatives doubt this story and her maternal uncle recalled that her mother named Dunham after her favorite actress Bette Davis' character in the film In This Our Life because she thought Stanley, as a girl's name, sounded sophisticated.[16] As a child and teenager she was known as Stanley.[2] Other children teased her about her name but she used it through high school, "apologizing for it each time she introduced herself in a new town".[17] By the time Dunham began attending college, she was known by her middle name, Ann, instead.[2] After World War II, Dunham's family moved from Wichita to California while her father attended the University of California, Berkeley. In 1948, they moved to Ponca City, Oklahoma, and from there to Vernon, Texas, and then to El Dorado, Kansas.[18] In 1955, the family moved to Seattle, Washington, where her father was employed as a furniture salesman and her mother worked as vice president of a bank. They lived in an apartment complex in the Wedgwood neighborhood where she attended Nathan Eckstein Junior High School.[19]

In 1956, Dunham's family moved to Mercer Island, an Eastside suburb of Seattle. Dunham's parents wanted their 13-year-old daughter to attend the newly opened Mercer Island High School.[7] At the school, teachers Val Foubert and Jim Wichterman taught the importance of challenging social norms and questioning authority to the young Dunham, and she took the lessons to heart: "She felt she didn't need to date or marry or have children." One classmate remembered her as "intellectually way more mature than we were and a little bit ahead of her time, in an off-center way",[7] and a high school friend described her as knowledgeable and progressive: "If you were concerned about something going wrong in the world, Stanley would know about it first. We were liberals before we knew what liberals were." Another called her "the original feminist".[7]

The guy who took the pornographic pictures of Stanley Ann was Frank Marshall Davis, a political activist in Chicago:

Davis had been a strong supporter of the work of Richard Wright, calling his Uncle Tom's Children "the most absorbing fiction penned by a Negro since George Schuyler's Black No More [1931],[20] but after Wright's break with the Left, Davis called Wright's public essays "an act of treason in the fight for our rights and aided only the racists who were constantly seeking any means to destroy cooperation between Reds and blacks."[17]

"Reds" is talking about Communists, not Native Americans. Frank Marshall Davis, who may be Obama's real dad, is the "Frank" that Obama talks about in Dreams from My Father, is called Obama's "mentor," and was a political activist pushing Communism here during the Soviet days, and racially charging it.

Here's a promotion for a book about Stanley Ann Dunham:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMUlWbO1rhk


Moving on from Frank Marshall Davis, there's this next link to radical left organizations:

During the 2008 U.S. presidential campaign, controversy[1] arose regarding Barack Obama's relationship with Bill Ayers, a Distinguished Professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago, and a former leader of the Weather Underground, a radical left organization in the 1970s.[2] Investigations by CNN, The New York Times and other news organizations concluded that Obama did not have a close relationship with Ayers.[3][4][5]

Ayers and his wife, Bernardine Dohrn, hosted a gathering at their home in 1995,[6] where Alice Palmer introduced Obama as her chosen successor in the Illinois State Senate.[4][7] Obama and Ayers' nine years of service on the board of directors of the Woods Fund of Chicago overlapped for three years from 1999 to 2002.[4][6][7]

The matter was first raised by the British and American press, then by conservative blogs and talk radio programs,[8][9][10] and then by moderator George Stephanopoulos during a debate between Hillary Clinton and Obama in April 2008. The Obama-Ayers connection was used as a major campaign issue by Republican presidential candidate John McCain and vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin during the 2008 presidential election campaign. Obama has condemned Ayers' past,[11][12] and stated that he does not have a close association with him.[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_A...on_controversy

So the radical leftists in Chicago approved Obama to succeed them politically. The terrorist organization Ayers was involved with wanted to "bring the war home," by which they meant bring the Vietnam War to the streets of the US. They made some pretty devastating bombs, including one that blew up while it was being made, killing the two radicalized young hippies that were making it. Its intended purpose was revealed later to have been an event for military officers, to maim and kill them and their wives.

So two people involved in that organization, were political allies who helped bring Obama up in Chicago politics, and Obama took over the wife's seat in the Illinois Senate. The wife, Bernardine Dohrn, is described as a former "leader" of Weatherman.

[Dreamtimer]

There are different kinds of polls. Some are considered scientific. These ones don't come out right away. The real trends show when all of the polls can be analyzed.

The constant drum beat of liberal media is most certainly part of NLP. It's the way talking points and propaganda work. And Gingrich is on board with taking emotion over fact and repeating the mantra that everything is worse.

It's what stops people from looking into things. And it's why I'm glad there were fact checkers all over the place keeping track of things in real time. There was a great deal of traffic to these sites. Before the NLP onslaught.

[jonsnow]

Hillary won the debate mostly because Trump refused to attack became a gentleman not his style and Trump lost his cool over his record of the iraq war were he says he did not support the war .
Hillary despite my predictions did not colapse or have a seizure do or say anything wrong . She looked healthy sane grounded clearly won the debate my score 10/6.5 to Hillary. Trump lost points because he lost his cool and refusing to attack hillary .

now round two .....




My view vote wise i say Trump is ahead but Hillary did well and if she continues to perform well might win wild card is Hillary health another scare and Hilary might be forced to leave the race for White House .

[bsbray]

The fact that we have very liberal media outlets is not NLP. You must have missed the DNC email leak earlier this year (it wasn't in MSM much obviously):

Leaked DNC Emails Confirm Democrats Rigged Primary, Reveal Extensive Media Collusion

There are three key findings to emerge from yesterday's dump of leaked DNC emails released by Wikileaks:

There had been a plot designed to smear Bernie Sanders and to hand the Democratic nomination to Hillary on a silver platter
There has been repeated collusion between the DNC and the media
There has been questionable fundraising for both Hillary Clinton and the DNC

First, a quick recap for those who missed the original report, yesterday Wikileaks released over 19,000 emails and more than 8,000 attachments from the Democratic National Committee. This is what the whistleblower organization reported:

WikiLeaks releases 19,252 emails and 8,034 attachments from the top of the US Democratic National Committee -- part one of our new Hillary Leaks series. The leaks come from the accounts of seven key figures in the DNC: Communications Director Luis Miranda (10770 emails), National Finance Director Jordon Kaplan (3797 emails), Finance Chief of Staff Scott Comer (3095 emails), Finanace Director of Data & Strategic Initiatives Daniel Parrish (1472 emails), Finance Director Allen Zachary (1611 emails), Senior Advisor Andrew Wright (938 emails) and Northern California Finance Director Robert (Erik) Stowe (751 emails). The emails cover the period from January last year until 25 May this year.d

Subsequently, the Romanian hacker known as Guccifer 2.0 (who has denied he works with the Russian government), who has already released hundreds of hacked DNC emails previously, told The Hill he leaked the documents to Wikileaks.

An initial read of the thousands of emails in the data dump reveals top officials at the Democratic National Committee privately plotting to undermine Bernie Sanders’s presidential campaign, confirming a long-running allegation by the Sanders campaign who has claimed that the DNC and Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz had tipped the scales in favor of Hillary Clinton during the party’s presidential primary. They also reveal instances of media collusion as well as various questionable instances of fundraising.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-0...edia-collusion


Specifically in regards to media collusion:

A communication from late May laid out the pros and cons of DNC Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz accepting an invitation to CBS’s 'Face the Nation', and indicated that the DNC was plotting its moves based on what would be amenable to Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign.

“Clinton campaign is a mess, they’re afraid of their own shadow and didn’t like that we engaged,” DNC communications director Luis Miranda wrote. “But they’ll be unhappy regardless, so better to get out there and do some strong pivots and land good punches on Trump. They can’t tell us NOT to do TV right now, we shouldn’t pull ourselves out until they actually do.”

“It’s clear that Bernie messed up and that we’re on the right side of history,” Miranda wrote in another bullet point, referring to the Nevada convention.

“Let's take this offline,” Wasserman Schultz said in response. “I basically agree with you."

Wasserman Schultz and Miranda brainstormed ideas to attack Sanders’ position on the Israel/Palestine conflict with her communications team in one thread, with Wasserman Schultz saying that "the Israel stuff is disturbing” in reference to Sanders’ platform committee appointees attempts to include language denouncing the occupation of Palestinian territory in the Democratic platform.

The chairwoman says that the idea “HFA,” or Hillary For America, originally proposed the idea of using Israel/Palestine as “an ideal issue to marginalize Sanders on,” suggesting that the DNC were exchanging communications about anti-Sanders strategies with the Clinton campaign.

* * *

The DNC also made a secret “agreement” with Kenneth Vogel, an influential report for Politico. An email from late April with the subject line "per agreement... any thoughts appreciated" shows that Vogel sent an advanced copy of a story about Hillary Clinton’s fundraising to the DNC even before his editor even saw it.



“Vogel gave me his story ahead of time/before it goes to his editors as long as I didn't share it,” DNC press secretary Mark Paustenbach wrote to Miranda. “Let me know if you see anything that's missing and I'll push back.”

The published version of the story did not appear to have any significant edits from and was not favorable to the Clinton campaign, but the sending of a full, advanced copy to the subject of a story is considered to be a violation of journalistic ethics.

A source with familiar with the interaction between Politico and the DNC told RT America that the message was sent to officials to ensure accuracy in the story, and that it would have been difficult to ask for piecemeal clarifications due to its complexity. The “agreement,” in fact, referred to the DNC promising not to pass the story to a more favorable news outlet who might publish before Politco.

* * *

Another email released in the Friday leak indicates that the DNC was in close contact with news websites on articles related to the Democratic Party. A Real Clear Politics article said that Sanders supporters were causing a lack of unity at the Nevada Democratic Convention.

“This headline needs to be changed,” Wasserman Schultz wrote to Miranda.

“We need to push back... Patrice, what happened, DNC had nothing to do with this, right?” Miranda replied, referring to DNC Director of Party Affairs Patrice Taylor. Taylor responded saying that the article should be changed the event was run by the state party and the disorder “sounds like internal issues amount [sic] Sanders supporters.”

“Walter, please connect with Stewart and get him to push back,” Miranda wrote. The last email on the thread says: “Done. Article has been updated.”

* * *

Further evidence of the DNC's extensive "content control" over mass media was revealed when Wasserman Schultz sent an email to NBC anchor Chuck Todd with the subject line "Chuck, this must stop," and set up a time for the two to talk about MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” co-host Mika Brzezinski calling on Wasserman Schultz to step down.



In another email chain, Miranda said Brzezinski was willing to talk with Wasserman Schultz. "She's already served as a judge and jury without even bothering to talk to me. Not sure why I should trust having a conversation with her would make any difference. Or that she even matters, to be frank," Wasserman Schultz wrote back after a brief exchange.

In response to a New York Times story about Sanders's defiance in the wake May's unruly Democratic state convention in Nevada, Wasserman Schultz wrote: "Every time they get caught doing something wrong, they use the tactic of blaming me. Not working this time."

* * *

To be sure, there has been a long trail of instances that confirmed Wasserman Schultz's clear and repeated bias, as noted most recently in "DNC Head Threatened To Kick Michigan Mayor Out Of Debate For Cheering Bernie Sanders", however this is the first time primary sourced evidence has justified such allegations.

There seems to be clear bias in the aggregate as well. Searches of the database shows an apparent bias by DNC officials against Sanders just by how closely either campaign was monitored. A search of “Sanders supporters” yields 306 messages, while a search of “Clinton supporters” shows only 65 results. A search of “his campaign” yields 780 messages, while “her campaign” only brings up a paltry 120 results.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-0...edia-collusion

After knowing about this email leak, will you still tell me that there is no collusion between the Democratic National Committee and the liberal media, or that the media doesn't really have a liberal bias?

Wikileaks posted the emails and a fuller reading of them shows other media companies colluding with the DNC as well. One media company was giving incentives to Clinton supporters, and when their lawyers advised them that this was illegal collusion, their discussion changed to how they would be able to get around that law. There is all kinds of stuff in those leaks, but was it on MSM? No, of course not! Not even Fox dug very deep into the story. Of course not, because it exposes the fact that these media companies are working directly with DNC officials and even taking orders from them.


Other articles about the leak. Here's how one MSM company covered it:

WikiLeaks’ DNC Email Leak Reveals Off The Record Media Correspondence

SAN FRANCISCO (CBS) — WikiLeaks released over 19,000 emails on Friday sent from the accounts of U.S. Democratic National Committee officials, including dozens of off the record media correspondence.

Dubbed the “Hillary Leaks series” by WikiLeaks, the leak is comprised of a searchable database of almost 20,000 emails with over 8,000 attachments and photos from the email accounts of top DNC employees.

Some of the most interesting emails to read are those exchanged by DNC staffers as they decide how to respond to media inquiries, and then their off-the-record and deep background responses to numerous national media outlets. The emails contained off the record correspondence with reporters at the Washington Post, Politico, and the Wall Street Journal, among others.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/201...mittee-emails/

Notice that this CBS affiliate doesn't call it collusion or corruption of any kind, but just "off the record media correspondence." Someone must have been talking to their lawyers already.


Some data from a Pew (scientific) survey:

THE ARGUMENT over whether the national press is dominated by liberals is over. Since 1962, there have been 11 surveys of the media that sought the political views of hundreds of journalists. In 1971, they were 53 percent liberal, 17 percent conservative. In a 1976 survey of the Washington press corps, it was 59 percent liberal, 18 percent conservative. A 1985 poll of 3,200 reporters found them to be self-identified as 55 percent liberal, 17 percent conservative. In 1996, another survey of Washington journalists pegged the breakdown as 61 percent liberal, 9 percent conservative. Now, the new study by the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press found the national media to be 34 percent liberal and 7 percent conservative.

Over 40-plus years, the only thing that's changed in the media's politics is that many national journalists have now cleverly decided to call themselves moderates. But their actual views haven't changed, the Pew survey showed. Their political beliefs are close to those of self-identified liberals and nowhere near those of conservatives. And the proportion of liberals to conservatives in the press, either 3-to-1 or 4-to-1, has stayed the same.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/libera...e/article/5369

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My view vote wise i say Trump is ahead but Hillary did well and if she continues to perform well might win wild card is Hillary health another scare and Hilary might be forced to leave the race for White House .

What I find interesting is that nowhere in your post did you mention anything at all about the actual policy differences these two candidates represent. Instead what I'm seeing is "perform well" (what does that mean exactly?) and stuff about Hillary's health, as if her ability to stay out of the hospital for a few more months should count as a positive reason why she should be president. DreamTimer said that Clinton "sounded" intelligent and I'm not sure what exactly that is actually supposed to mean either. What about the policies?

- Trade
- Employment
- Immigration
- Foreign wars

Can anybody tell me where the two candidates actually stand on these issues?