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Thread: Zen Gardner & The Children of God, an Expose

  1. #16
    Senior Member Australia Innocent Warrior's Avatar
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    There’s no denying there is still a major lack of compassion in the alternative community, as a whole. If we want more transparency then we'll need to work on providing a safe space for people like Zen Gardner to be more open about issues like this. That’s our responsibility to address.

    I agree accusing Gardner of being a paedophile is presumptuous but do you really believe there’s nobody who considers themselves victims of the leaders of that cult?

    Imagine being born into the Children of God cult (COG). We’re literally in download mode for the first six years of our life. Imagine what it’s like to be told who you are, in every way, and being deprived of all the choices we take for granted, like how many squares of toilet paper you can use and how to wipe your bum, from the time you were born. No choices, no individuality, no parents because they split them up, zero freedom. To make it even more messed up, it’s all done in the name of God and Jesus. So we’re looking at severe mental, emotional, spiritual, and, for many, sexual abuse.

    It would take a near saint to recover from that, a real one, not a Catholic one. It would be near impossible.

    Gardner joined the cult as a very young adult, 22 years old. I understand what Gardner said about how cults work; they begin with beautiful ideals and gradually morph into absolute insanity. There’s enough insanity in our culture for us to be able to empathise, to a degree. It’s not difficult to understand how Gardner became so brainwashed that he didn’t leave as soon as he became aware of any abuse, which he has admitted to. That doesn’t change the fact he didn’t leave though, it’s not an excuse, it’s a reason. It’s understandable, but he still didn’t leave, so it’s no wonder people no longer care to accept him on a guru platform. That’s his responsibility. And he is projecting, and quite frankly that was dumb of him to judge others for judging him. That’s where I went astray, I was compassionate until he had the audacity to judge others in the community and I ended up doing what he did and hit back.

    I’m sorry to you, Pointessa, and to anyone else I hurt with my posts.

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  3. #17
    Member on Sabbatical Morocco modwiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Innocent Warrior View Post
    There’s no denying there is still a major lack of compassion in the alternative community, as a whole. If we want more transparency then we'll need to work on providing a safe space for people like Zen Gardner to be more open about issues like this. That’s our responsibility to address.

    I agree accusing Gardner of being a paedophile is presumptuous but do you really believe there’s nobody who considers themselves victims of the leaders of that cult?

    Imagine being born into the Children of God cult (COG). We’re literally in download mode for the first six years of our life. Imagine what it’s like to be told who you are, in every way, and being deprived of all the choices we take for granted, like how many squares of toilet paper you can use and how to wipe your bum, from the time you were born. No choices, no individuality, no parents because they split them up, zero freedom. To make it even more messed up, it’s all done in the name of God and Jesus. So we’re looking at severe mental, emotional, spiritual, and, for many, sexual abuse.

    It would take a near saint to recover from that, a real one, not a Catholic one. It would be near impossible.

    Gardner joined the cult as a very young adult, 22 years old. I understand what Gardner said about how cults work; they begin with beautiful ideals and gradually morph into absolute insanity. There’s enough insanity in our culture for us to be able to empathise, to a degree. It’s not difficult to understand how Gardner became so brainwashed that he didn’t leave as soon as he became aware of any abuse, which he has admitted to. That doesn’t change the fact he didn’t leave though, it’s not an excuse, it’s a reason. It’s understandable, but he still didn’t leave, so it’s no wonder people no longer care to accept him on a guru platform. That’s his responsibility. And he is projecting, and quite frankly that was dumb of him to judge others for judging him. That’s where I went astray, I was compassionate until he had the audacity to judge others in the community and I ended up doing what he did and hit back.

    I’m sorry to you, Pointessa, and to anyone else I hurt with my posts.

    I never thought much of Zen Gardener. I found his writing unexceptional and many of his posts were portions of articles linking to other writers. Click bait, basically. So for me, he was not a guru by any measure and I found his links at rense.com. I never sought his site out because he was just one of many with a site, and a dull one at that. Since I never held him up as anything he didn't fall. I had the same thing with the Ruiner. I was never personally engaged but, an observer. Unlike the Ruiner, I won't say I like ZG. He was a name I recognized but. a nobody to me. I compare the Ruiner to ZG only in the sense of my reaction to a "bust" I would never want anyone to think they belong in a category together from my perspective. ZG, clearly has tawdry ties, at a minimum. Even if he is innocent of participation in wrongdoing he has some guilt by association and remains a blowhard in my eyes with a relevance I never understood.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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  5. #18
    Super Moderator Norway Elen's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Rebel&Rocket
    We all innately know right from wrong. We just forget to listen to ourselves.
    Amen to that
    Whatever is true. Whatever is noble. Whatever is right. Whatever is lovely. Whatever is admirable. Anything of excellence and worthy of praise. Dwell on these things. Jesus Christ (I agree)

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  7. #19
    Senior Member pointessa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Rebel&Rocket View Post
    I think the point to people's anger is that he admitted that he was in the organization for 27 years - many of them in a leadership role and as the head of marketing/PR. It was his job to spin what anyone saw from the outside and condemned. It was his job to know what was going on and to keep it hidden from the rest of the world. Whether or not he practiced what was preached by their leader, he was admittedly still complicit in covering it up. Whether or not he ever touched a single child himself, he aided and protected those who did. So, at the very least, he is the Catholic church protecting abusive priests.

    I haven't been around this community for years like a lot of you. I haven't seen the waves and waves of gurus and whistleblowers come and go, but it hasn't taken me long to figure out the dynamic. This is a community of vocal people. They are here because they're angry and disillusioned, and hoping to find like-minded people to have intelligent conversations with. They don't let anyone get away with anything...they pride themselves on being critical. They're critical of absolutely everything else from politics to religion to...well, everything, so it's no wonder they're critical here. They came here because they didn't like being duped in the first place. You bet your you-know-what they're going to be critical within the community.

    I don't think that a situation like this is simply a case of unbridled ego and falling short of our ideal self. It takes a very particular type of person to prey on children. It's a sickness that goes way beyond the ego. The darkest side of human potential is our ability to cannibalize each other - especially emotionally and spiritually. It's something we are all capable of. People that prey on the most vulnerable of us in the most damaging ways are, without a doubt, the darkest of the dark. I wanted to say that it's the antithesis of human nature - but maybe it's not. Maybe our nature really is brutal and selfish and we fight the extreme darkness in our potential to keep some balance, to transcend our nature.

    Your "judging without direct evidence" is not ego in my eyes. You've had a visceral reaction to the feeling, your own instincts, that these people are preying on others. I appreciate your willingness to look inside and see if your problems with these people are a reflection of something in you. Over-intellectualizing your instincts can potentially be a disservice to yourself though - something I need to remember myself.

    We all innately know right from wrong. We just forget to listen to ourselves.

    Well, Modwiz...so much for me taking the high road on this topic. Lol.


    I really appreciate what you said here, RebelRocket. I have given it consideration and will take it to heart. I have a strong tendency to view from intellectualizing and logic.. and the intellectualizing isn't always so intelligent....I also, appreciate your comments as well modwiz and Innocent Warrior.
    Last edited by pointessa, 2nd September 2016 at 13:32.

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  9. #20
    Senior Member ERK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Amanda View Post
    For some reason I was never interested in this man calling himself Zen Gardner. Was it my instinct? I have never been interested in him and now I note that many others are now not interested in him. Having a connection to the elite paedophile rings will never garner support from the general public.

    Much Peace & Much Respect - Amanda
    Same........never followed him. It is my sense now that mostly everything in alt/ media is BS.

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  11. #21
    Senior Member Amanda's Avatar
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    TRIGGER WARNING - FOR ANY VICTIMS AND WITNESSES WHO MAY BE READING THROUGH THIS THREAD.



    Modwiz - your comment about Common or Human Law requires a victim. I would like to express myself succinctly while still respecting and understanding your comments.

    One thing is clear when it comes to paedophiles and predators - victims and witnesses seldom come forward. When they come forward it is usually historical, which in Australia is a legal term. When a victim or witness comes forward to Police - they are making what is known as an 'Historical Report' and there is no time limit. The only time the Police will not/cannot investigate is when the POI is deceased.

    Many victims and witnesses - at an elite paedophile ring level - may be ritually sacrificed/murdered and other victims forced to watch or even participate. This engenders fear of coming forward because they are now implicated - even though by force and obvious coercion.

    Many victims and witnesses bury their pain and I have learned that once they decide to come forward - that is it - it is THEIR timing and not the timing of anyone else. I have noted patterns and it is one pattern that is continually exposing itself.

    Another pattern is that some victims and witnesses will contact me - make a few short comments and state that is all they will share with me. Sometimes I can actually sense the relief - even through the internet and the typed words. They tell me a little and they go away and return when they are ready. When they describe anything ritual - they know that by coming forward they are risking their own safety and the safety of their family.

    So - when a comment is made about needing a victim or witness - they may be many many many but coming forward in any manner that is public and that identifies them in anyway - is not going to happen unless it is THEIR time.

    I have learned to be discerning and I keep the confidence of every single person who contacts me - and - let's just say that some names and locations are being mentioned on a regular level.

    Please be kind when discussing such a sensitive subject as Child Sexual Abuse - there are heaven knows how many victims and witnesses who sit silently carrying their pain and torment - having never expressed it to anyone - ever. There was one instance shared with me - a person who was over eighty years old - one day decided to share their pain with a Teacher. What was described was regular visits to a certain place - every single weekend of their Childhood. All I can do is hope that some relief was found by sharing details of the experience with someone who actually cared.

    All I want to state, from my personal and direct experience is this: Absence of victims and witnesses is not absence of Child Sexual Abuse. Just as Homicide Detectives have recorded in their history of learning to detect crime - and backwards at that: Absence of a murder victim is not absence of a Crime.

    Thank you once again The One Truth - for allowing me to express myself freely and in a safe place.

    Much Peace & Much Respect - as we work our way through the created chaos with dignity - Amanda
    Last edited by Amanda, 17th September 2016 at 03:25. Reason: Spelling

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  13. #22
    Senior Member Cearna's Avatar
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    Thank you Amanda, for your statement here, much food for thought, it is difficult to understand the motives of both victim and victimised, for an on-looker, but I know what my own torment was, just going through life, without being a victim myself, for I did what I did from my own choice, knowing the pain it would cause me, but what if you had no choice in the first place? After I had lived with my decision for far too long, what I needed most of all was someone, I could just talk to, until what I had to do was just keep talking, to begin to get myself into the next decision, which was to get up and walk away, knowing I could no longer live under those circumstances. In some ways you feel you have right on your side yet, the whole of your life is nothing but torment. I no longer live under those same circumstances, I changed my life, but I did not have to live with what many of these poor victims live with, and should never have had to live with.

    I have had but one experience of your sort of world and that was at the time when I was beginning to give energies to other for healing. One lady, brought to us her two daughters, all Catholics, and we later found that she was a victim of Church sexual abuse as a child, and she was haunted by it. she married and had four daughters. She found out that her husband was sexually abusing children, as he was a teacher, and the whole situation was a nightmare. We ended having to treat her for cancer,just to relieve her somewhat because she died, leaving those four girls to an abuse prone man, we lost tough with the family, but they were opening up to us, where it was being hidden before, and they were at the stage of being ready to take action against the priest. You are so right Amanda, we do need to seek and respect the fact that this is a bigger and more complicated thing. coming to grips with the situation begins in what this thread is about and I salute all who speak up, it has to be done.
    You are what you are, no more, no less. The fact is, that all is not what it seems to be, some may be great, some may be small, but to your own want to be free, I say, you never were not free. It is what your own Self, gave yourself to be in, that's what makes you what you are. Loving kindness be upon you and yours.

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