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Thread: Pissed and Annoyed

  1. #451
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    yeah, the Harriers, most cool...
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  3. #452
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    I think I recognize that airfield...it's where I worked...I use to sit in a testing cockpit in one of the buildings and target the Naval Air Station across the runways. Oh, what evil thoughts would run through my mind. They always warned us not to step in front of the rig because it would cook us.
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  5. #453
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    I'm not sure who was first to come up with thrust vectoring ─ well, I suppose I could look it up on Wikipedia ─ but I think it was the Russians, and I think it was on the Sukhoi Su-27. Meanwhile, the F-22 also has it ─ I'm not sure about the F-35 ─ but an F-16 certainly doesn't have thrust vectoring yet, given that it was developed in the 1970s.

    That said, the F-16 wàs revolutionary for its time. It only has a single engine, but being very lightweight, it way outperformed an F-4 Phantom at take-off and maneuvering ─ the F-16's top speed was about 200 kph lower, I think ─ and it was also the first American jet with fly-by-wire controls.

    One of the jets I still find incredibly fascinating is the Hawker Harrier. It's only subsonic, but it is to my knowledge still the only jet in the world that can fly in reverse.
    It was the Brits with the Harrier in the sixties. That pegasus engine is mighty impressive, only now has it been surpassed by the F-35 VTOL version. Still, the US marine corps are still using their harriers after half a century...
    Well, yes, in a way the VTOL capabilities of the Harrier were a precursor to thrust vectoring, but it wasn't actually used much as such in-flight, plus that turning the thrust nozzles downward or forward was not as intuitive/quick to operate as in the flight controls of a modern jet fighter with thrust vectoring. And of course, the vectoring is only vertical, not vertical and horizontal, as in these modern thrust-vectoring jets. But yes, the Harrier was probably the daddy of them all.

    That said, I don't know whether the VTOL version of the F-35 can fly in reverse, though. In fact, I think it can't. Its vertical thrust comes from a separate and fixed, horizontally rotating "ducted fan" behind the cockpit, in combination with turning the exhaust of the turbofan engine 90° downward. The Harrier on the other hand has four exhausts that can be turned forward by about 8° or so from the perfectly downward direction, whereby the pure jet from the Pegasus turbofan passes through two of the exhausts while the clean air passes through the two other exhausts. With all four exhausts pointing down, the Harrier pretty much operates like a helicopter.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  7. #454
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    still pretty cool...
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  9. #455
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    I'm not sure who was first to come up with thrust vectoring ─ well, I suppose I could look it up on Wikipedia ─ but I think it was the Russians, and I think it was on the Sukhoi Su-27. Meanwhile, the F-22 also has it ─ I'm not sure about the F-35 ─ but an F-16 certainly doesn't have thrust vectoring yet, given that it was developed in the 1970s.

    That said, the F-16 wàs revolutionary for its time. It only has a single engine, but being very lightweight, it way outperformed an F-4 Phantom at take-off and maneuvering ─ the F-16's top speed was about 200 kph lower, I think ─ and it was also the first American jet with fly-by-wire controls.

    One of the jets I still find incredibly fascinating is the Hawker Harrier. It's only subsonic, but it is to my knowledge still the only jet in the world that can fly in reverse.
    still pretty cool...
    It is. I still have a (fairly unscathed) Dinky Toys Harrier (in its original box) from when I was about 9 years old. It bears a blue and green camouflage pattern, with a white underside. It has a locking slider switch on the back by which you can extend or retract the landing gear, although the supporting pylons on the wings must be operated "manually".

    It looks like this one below ─ note: this is not mine, though.


    Name:  dinky-toys-722-hawker-harrier_360_3224130d07cfe2e96036e8603d68499a.jpg
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    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  11. #456
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    nice toy...I can't believe it, this is like the really old days...youse people are going to get me all wound up about who has the biggest jet...
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  13. #457
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    nice toy...I can't believe it, this is like the really old days...youse people are going to get me all wound up about who has the biggest jet...
    Between the ages of twelve and fifteen, I built model aircraft kits. Some of those were quite big. The biggest kit I had was not an actual airplane ─ and it was my dad who built it for me, because I had fine motor skill problems and I would always make a mess out of the glue ─ but instead, it was a Saturn V rocket. You could separate the individual stages, and it also had a moon lander inside.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  15. #458
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    really slick...you know what, I could never handle the finer things either...which is why I defaulted to Frankenstein and Superman...and getting high but not on glue...I left that to some of my friends.
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  17. #459
    Senior Member Lord Sidious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    I watched a video on that maneuver...Holy Shit! That is airworthiness. I'm not sure an F-16 is capable of that kind of aerodynamic control. One thing about the F-16 that I've seen is that it is very precise in standard maneuvers

    Here's an F-22, I chose to work on the F-16 because I was told that 'security' process would be stiffer for the F-22...they lied and I didn't...in the end it really sucked. I would think the F-35 is even more sophisticated, if they could ever get it off the ground.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bckevf-SSac


    The F-16 does match the speed of the Mig-29 but I think that's suppose to be classified...
    In the aforesaid vid I quoted, the guy said that many planes can do the manoeuvre, but doing it and not having the nose get outta control is another story.
    He said only Russian planes could do it and not lose their control........
    Ní siocháin go saoirse

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  19. #460
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Actually Sid, I noticed that...The Raptor didn't have the full style that the Russian Jet did...but still pretty impressive.
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  21. #461
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Well, yes, in a way the VTOL capabilities of the Harrier were a precursor to thrust vectoring, but it wasn't actually used much as such in-flight, plus that turning the thrust nozzles downward or forward was not as intuitive/quick to operate as in the flight controls of a modern jet fighter with thrust vectoring. And of course, the vectoring is only vertical, not vertical and horizontal, as in these modern thrust-vectoring jets. But yes, the Harrier was probably the daddy of them all.

    That said, I don't know whether the VTOL version of the F-35 can fly in reverse, though. In fact, I think it can't. Its vertical thrust comes from a separate and fixed, horizontally rotating "ducted fan" behind the cockpit, in combination with turning the exhaust of the turbofan engine 90° downward. The Harrier on the other hand has four exhausts that can be turned forward by about 8° or so from the perfectly downward direction, whereby the pure jet from the Pegasus turbofan passes through two of the exhausts while the clean air passes through the two other exhausts. With all four exhausts pointing down, the Harrier pretty much operates like a helicopter.
    I'm not an expert, but I did talk to some RAF veterans in various aviation museums in the south of England and read a bit about the Harrier's history. If I recall, they mentioned the thrust vectoring capabilities (even if only horizontally) of the Harrier as one of the reasons it was actually vicious and very hard to beat in a dogfight, despite the lack of supersonic capabilities. It was more than a match for the admittedly older jets the Argentinians had during the Falklands war for instance. I might be wrong here, but that is my vague recollection on the matter.

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  23. #462
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    I love a silent song, an engaging tune of silence, universes hum as background.
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    Saint Aianawa are you Okay I hear.
    Feel fear dear one, feel fear.
    Y so Y, R yonder not towards love me a callous light bolt nay tears call you.
    Tis not your fear so feel dear one.
    Your not hear to not experience know pain without so bid me.

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  25. #463
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    A hidden talent, Aianawa? Poetry...I know you're a Capricorn, so I'll ask if you were born at Midnight, give or take a couple of hours... ... If you're brave enough, let me do your chart...
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