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Thread: A speech for vegetarianism

  1. #31
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    i am doing my damdest to start the vegetarian/fruitarian life..
    snack on fruit all day and eat a filling salad for dinner.
    seems like the life but then the protein comes to mind.
    need protein to feed the brain or at least i hear and read about
    this.. meat is the best way for this part of the diet.
    i try to find recipes for dinners the vegetarian way..
    so, it comes down to me not knowing enough about this topic.
    any good recipe sites ya'll know of? maybe share links?
    here is a link, not to recipes, but to Dr. Morse ND and he talks
    about fruitarian diets.
    Last edited by Greenbarry, 29th June 2016 at 22:44.

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  3. #32
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    fixed it.. one above for Dr Morse

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    I need a carrot.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Don't you carrot all? (I really can't help myself)

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    Member on Sabbatical Morocco modwiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Don't you carrot all? (I really can't help myself)
    Twas brilliant and probably got us across the line.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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    Quote Originally posted by modwiz View Post
    Twas brilliant and probably got us across the line.
    What do you know DreamTimer, your carrot pun may have been post #100,000.

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    I've been vegetarian then vegan for (doing math in head) 33 years - since leaving home at 19.
    Silently, internally, I was in hell through teen years - after unexpectedly seeing a sheep slaughtered at 12 by two men who wrestled it onto its back on a wooden frame while it bleated and fought to escape, before they cut its throat. I have never forgotten the wall of agony that hit me that day, and proceeded to have recurring dreams through my teens, of being in slaughterhouses holding the faces of cows, trying to comfort them as they were killed.
    My family went prawning through the summers, and I would walk along behind on the beach and pick up the hundreds of tiny fish flipping around on the sand left carelessly to die, with tears pouring down my face.
    When I tried to go veg at that age, I had no idea of nutrition, and just left off eating the meat, and became protein and iron deficient, so began eating it again, although it never sat right in my heart, while putting up with a fair bit of mockery from family members.
    I felt the suffering of life very acutely, human and animal, and still do...but am able to stay in balance much better and far more easily now. It was a long road though, and I am grateful every moment to be able to hold my peace in the midst of a storm of violence. Humans are currently eating 70 billion land animals per year, around 54 billion of which are 'intensively farmed', meaning they live in confinement, deprivation, and mostly with very shortened and often painful lives, before being sent to slaughter.
    It is impossible not to kill, while in physical 3D form - every breath we take kills a stack of micro-organisms.
    But that is different to intentionally enslaving other living beings in order to eat them, or wear them. The right to own and dictate the lives of other beings is still very ingrained in humanity, and won't change overnight (miracle excepted, which I'm always open to).
    There's a qualitative difference between having a caring companion relationship with an animal - including those who produce milk and eggs - and using them as a product whose feelings and quality of life don't matter, and discarding their babies as waste byproducts.
    In the 1970s my great aunt and uncle had a dairy, where their cows were at least well-treated slaves, and their calves stayed with them and fed at night.
    Now, at least in Australia, the majority of calves are taken from their mothers before they're 24 hours old, and 700 000 'bobby calves' are sent to slaughter each year at five days old. They are now legally allowed to be kept 'off food' for 30 hours, and arrive at the slaughterhouse bewildered, dehydrated, often sick and with infections, some unable to walk...when they should be with their mothers by any kind of natural right. But they're seen as the worthless cast-offs of slave animals - who themselves now are considered 'spent' at 4 to 5 years old (a cow naturally lives up to 22) as soon as their milk tapers of maximum yield...and btw, in the 1970s the average cow produced 2800 litres per year, now it's 5400 litres per year.
    Callous indifference along with outright cruelty continue to reinforce humanity's 'annexation' to/by some very cold, unloving players in the galactic field, from my point of view.

    On the other hand, in the last 33 years, the shift of first vegetarianism, then veganism and even fruitarian diets, into a more mainstream awareness and acceptability, has been profound. In the 1980s I had to go to a specialist health shop to buy tofu or tempeh. Now, there are about eight different kinds on the local supermarket shelves, plus all manner of veggie pre-made dishes, pies etc. There are so many plant-based milks available now, it's incredible. This week I'm drinking Macadamia Milk, and have coconut milk, soy milk and almond milk in the cupboard! This has all changed in only a few years. Wow!
    The last two years there's also a lot of organic foods in regular supermarkets, and superfoods like chia seeds, which are now being grown in the north of Western Australia - the climate suits them ideally...and chia is huge in protein, iron, calcium and Omega 3's.
    So I'm finding this a really great time to be on this planet as a vegan/fruitarian gradually shifting off the need for physical foods, which is my preferred goal...
    Yay

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    Quote Originally posted by Joanna View Post
    I've been vegetarian then vegan for (doing math in head) 33 years - since leaving home at 19.
    Silently, internally, I was in hell through teen years - after unexpectedly seeing a sheep slaughtered at 12 by two men who wrestled it onto its back on a wooden frame while it bleated and fought to escape, before they cut its throat. I have never forgotten the wall of agony that hit me that day, and proceeded to have recurring dreams through my teens, of being in slaughterhouses holding the faces of cows, trying to comfort them as they were killed.
    My family went prawning through the summers, and I would walk along behind on the beach and pick up the hundreds of tiny fish flipping around on the sand left carelessly to die, with tears pouring down my face.
    When I tried to go veg at that age, I had no idea of nutrition, and just left off eating the meat, and became protein and iron deficient, so began eating it again, although it never sat right in my heart, while putting up with a fair bit of mockery from family members.
    I felt the suffering of life very acutely, human and animal, and still do...but am able to stay in balance much better and far more easily now. It was a long road though, and I am grateful every moment to be able to hold my peace in the midst of a storm of violence. Humans are currently eating 70 billion land animals per year, around 54 billion of which are 'intensively farmed', meaning they live in confinement, deprivation, and mostly with very shortened and often painful lives, before being sent to slaughter.
    It is impossible not to kill, while in physical 3D form - every breath we take kills a stack of micro-organisms.
    But that is different to intentionally enslaving other living beings in order to eat them, or wear them. The right to own and dictate the lives of other beings is still very ingrained in humanity, and won't change overnight (miracle excepted, which I'm always open to).
    There's a qualitative difference between having a caring companion relationship with an animal - including those who produce milk and eggs - and using them as a product whose feelings and quality of life don't matter, and discarding their babies as waste byproducts.
    In the 1970s my great aunt and uncle had a dairy, where their cows were at least well-treated slaves, and their calves stayed with them and fed at night.
    Now, at least in Australia, the majority of calves are taken from their mothers before they're 24 hours old, and 700 000 'bobby calves' are sent to slaughter each year at five days old. They are now legally allowed to be kept 'off food' for 30 hours, and arrive at the slaughterhouse bewildered, dehydrated, often sick and with infections, some unable to walk...when they should be with their mothers by any kind of natural right. But they're seen as the worthless cast-offs of slave animals - who themselves now are considered 'spent' at 4 to 5 years old (a cow naturally lives up to 22) as soon as their milk tapers of maximum yield...and btw, in the 1970s the average cow produced 2800 litres per year, now it's 5400 litres per year.
    Callous indifference along with outright cruelty continue to reinforce humanity's 'annexation' to/by some very cold, unloving players in the galactic field, from my point of view.

    On the other hand, in the last 33 years, the shift of first vegetarianism, then veganism and even fruitarian diets, into a more mainstream awareness and acceptability, has been profound. In the 1980s I had to go to a specialist health shop to buy tofu or tempeh. Now, there are about eight different kinds on the local supermarket shelves, plus all manner of veggie pre-made dishes, pies etc. There are so many plant-based milks available now, it's incredible. This week I'm drinking Macadamia Milk, and have coconut milk, soy milk and almond milk in the cupboard! This has all changed in only a few years. Wow!
    The last two years there's also a lot of organic foods in regular supermarkets, and superfoods like chia seeds, which are now being grown in the north of Western Australia - the climate suits them ideally...and chia is huge in protein, iron, calcium and Omega 3's.
    So I'm finding this a really great time to be on this planet as a vegan/fruitarian gradually shifting off the need for physical foods, which is my preferred goal...
    Yay



    Once again, Joanna a most thoughtful, and beautiful post! I wish I could figure out a way to feel balanced here. I feel the suffering on this planet all the time, and yet it is such a beautiful place. What a juxtaposition.

    If anyone could make the transition to breatharian, I bet it would be you.

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  17. #39
    Senior Member blufire's Avatar
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    Modwiz and all else. I truly wish to have an in depth thoughtful dialogue in topics such as this thread. But I also feel strongly that most will not be able to get the past the ‘labels’ that have been stuck to me over the years.

    Are there TOT members out there who can maybe consider another concept other than that we have been ‘fed’ for years? Or that there are other viable views and knowledge out there other than those from a more New Age or current similar groups. I don’t know . . . . my experience is there is not.

    We have literally been cultivated for years with concepts (and memes) such as reptilians are evil, there are benevolent aliens that will rescue us and protecting us from the evil aliens, humans are vile and destructive, we should all be vegans and vegetarians, you aren’t spiritual or worthy unless you can live without food (prana), levitate or experience OBE . . . and other.

    Posts like this (below) from Joanna’s really troubles me, as well as, the pain I literally feel radiating from pointessa’s posts

    So I'm finding this a really great time to be on this planet as a vegan/fruitarian gradually shifting off the need for physical foods, which is my preferred goal...
    Yay
    Please. Please understand Joanna I am not singling you out or attacking you . . . . . . but I truly do not understand how you can mesh or justify or reason that you want to transition from physical foods when we are physical and organic Beings. It is thoughts/concepts such as this that I feel are destructive and hurtful and setup conflict like that I feel radiating from pointessa.

    We are dual natured Beings. We have two (dual) strands of DNA. We naturally swing from one end of our dual nature to the other or many polarize to one end or the other . . . . never finding that elusive Balance.

    We are Reptilian on one end of the spectrum and Mammalian on the other end.

    Look at our DNA strand model . . . . . it is intertwined with all our genetic codes connecting the two intertwining strands.

    When I read posts from Joanna, modwiz, pointessa, and those like Christina (from PA) I see the Mammalian extreme of our DNA. Highly sensitive, highly empathic, visionaries, highly conflicted with concepts like animal slaughter but somehow reject or ignore massive human suffering and death, highly spiritual and earth connected . . etc.

    The other end of our genetic makeup is Reptilian. Pragmatic, practical to a fault, black and white, technology minded, they take the mammalian visions and make them real and tangible, they mostly reject religion (all kinds), they are the doers, problem solvers . . . .

    Both ends of the spectrum when forced to act together bring conflict, confusion, division, negativity . . . . much how probably many on the forums feel toward me because I tend toward my reptilian nature because the forums (all of them like PA) definitely have a more Mammalian foundation. Just like I (and those like me) react harshly at times to the more mammalian concepts.

    But our utmost challenge is to find that elusive Balance between our Dualistic nature. You can wish and pray and hope that somehow this would go away but it will not, it is who we are and it is our legacy. . . . in all its glory and beauty and wonder. Most importantly we NEED the two opposing DNA strands because with both unified we will be able to do wondrous things. We NEED each other.

    So we are Mammalian and Reptilian and we need to work ever toward Balancing our tendencies to one end or the other. This is how we will survive and most importantly Thrive during this current cycle we are in.

    It all starts with Acceptance and Understanding.

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  19. #40
    Senior Member Joanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by blufire View Post
    Modwiz and all else. I truly wish to have an in depth thoughtful dialogue in topics such as this thread. But I also feel strongly that most will not be able to get the past the ‘labels’ that have been stuck to me over the years.

    Are there TOT members out there who can maybe consider another concept other than that we have been ‘fed’ for years? Or that there are other viable views and knowledge out there other than those from a more New Age or current similar groups. I don’t know . . . . my experience is there is not.

    We have literally been cultivated for years with concepts (and memes) such as reptilians are evil, there are benevolent aliens that will rescue us and protecting us from the evil aliens, humans are vile and destructive, we should all be vegans and vegetarians, you aren’t spiritual or worthy unless you can live without food (prana), levitate or experience OBE . . . and other.

    Posts like this (below) from Joanna’s really troubles me, as well as, the pain I literally feel radiating from pointessa’s posts



    Please. Please understand Joanna I am not singling you out or attacking you . . . . . . but I truly do not understand how you can mesh or justify or reason that you want to transition from physical foods when we are physical and organic Beings. It is thoughts/concepts such as this that I feel are destructive and hurtful and setup conflict like that I feel radiating from pointessa.

    We are dual natured Beings. We have two (dual) strands of DNA. We naturally swing from one end of our dual nature to the other or many polarize to one end or the other . . . . never finding that elusive Balance.

    We are Reptilian on one end of the spectrum and Mammalian on the other end.

    Look at our DNA strand model . . . . . it is intertwined with all our genetic codes connecting the two intertwining strands.

    When I read posts from Joanna, modwiz, pointessa, and those like Christina (from PA) I see the Mammalian extreme of our DNA. Highly sensitive, highly empathic, visionaries, highly conflicted with concepts like animal slaughter but somehow reject or ignore massive human suffering and death, highly spiritual and earth connected . . etc.

    The other end of our genetic makeup is Reptilian. Pragmatic, practical to a fault, black and white, technology minded, they take the mammalian visions and make them real and tangible, they mostly reject religion (all kinds), they are the doers, problem solvers . . . .

    Both ends of the spectrum when forced to act together bring conflict, confusion, division, negativity . . . . much how probably many on the forums feel toward me because I tend toward my reptilian nature because the forums (all of them like PA) definitely have a more Mammalian foundation. Just like I (and those like me) react harshly at times to the more mammalian concepts.

    But our utmost challenge is to find that elusive Balance between our Dualistic nature. You can wish and pray and hope that somehow this would go away but it will not, it is who we are and it is our legacy. . . . in all its glory and beauty and wonder. Most importantly we NEED the two opposing DNA strands because with both unified we will be able to do wondrous things. We NEED each other.

    So we are Mammalian and Reptilian and we need to work ever toward Balancing our tendencies to one end or the other. This is how we will survive and most importantly Thrive during this current cycle we are in.

    It all starts with Acceptance and Understanding.
    Blufire, with respect, in your above comments you are projecting your attachment to polarization onto my words. Nowhere did I say reptilians are evil, humans are vile or unworthy - or not 'spiritual' unless they can live without food, levitate or experience OBE. Balance doesn't have to be elusive...but personally, I'm not so much interested in balancing between dualities, as in encompassing them, as a whole. Wrapping around them.
    Do humans do terrible things? Yes. Do they also do wonderful things, and a whole lot else inbetween? Constantly.
    You are projecting that if I choose to not eat animals, or to indeed live on prana (or from my point of view, on love) then that is a rejection of humanity, of humanness, made up of mammalian and reptilian strands that have been, conceptually, set against each other.

    However, as I don't see or feel humanity as only made up of those two groups, but of others also, and I see DNA as not fixed but in potential expansion (and there have been, by the way, babies born already with three strands of DNA; I cited one on a thread at TOT somewhere about a little boy born in Manchester with three DNA strands a few years ago)...so I don't view through the same fixity as you, and the Mammal versus Reptile idea isn't so relevant to me.
    My life experiences are that there are both loving ET beings and also those of a controlling, cold mentality, who are both involved with humans on Earth at the current time...and I see which group enslaving and killing other living beings reinforces the connection to, moreso in circumstances where we don't need to do so for survival, and I choose not to engage in this because it doesn't resonate inside my being. I have never said, and would never say, that those who do choose to eat flesh are 'unworthy', and do have a lot of love and care for humanity. It's not an either/or animals v humans to me, it's all one family. I love them all.

    You don't know me well, and when you polarize mammalian v reptilian in the way you are, and see me (or others) at one end of the pole, you've just put on me a lot of assumptions. So for the record, I have encountered what would be called 'ascended' reptilians, and though I cannot in truth say they are the majority of those beings - especially the ones engaging Earth right now - they do, in my view, exist, and I'm not here to make blanket statements about whole races of beings, which is a dangerous and distorting road to go down.
    In terms of 'reflected types' in Earth species - well, turtles and tortoises happen to be a very ancient branch of reptiles, and the giant tortoises who live hundreds of years grazing on grass are as gentle and peaceful as it gets! I have friendly large lizards here in the garden called Blue Tongues (or Stumpytails) who are omnivores, and one comes to my door to be handfed pieces of banana. Blue Tongues are territorial and I'm very happy to have them around, as they drive off snakes - and as the three varieties we have here are all deadly poisonous, that's a good thing! So that is quite a range, within the reptile families, and I see the same range and more, from a galactic perspective.

    About the fixity and dualization of two strand DNA, I follow my own guidance on this, and see our genetic make-up and action as far more subtle and pliable than this...because I also look into the RNA strands - which are interacting with DNA, as transcribers, replicators, messengers. And RNA actually can do everything that DNA does, but as a single strand, not two. An RNA strand can combine in a helix with DNA, or it can curve back on itself and twine/helix with itself. DNA developed as a fixed lattice to hold the codes in a stable form, whereas the RNA is instable, but pliable, and mutable, and it shifts the codes. And when you add in the tagging of DNA strands by the epigenomes (and protein molecules) then you have a very intricate picture to work with, and one that is full of possibilities and potentials for what I would call, Encompassing.
    Which does take acceptance and understanding, I totally agree.

    "I truly do not understand how you can mesh or justify or reason that you want to transition from physical foods when we are physical and organic Beings. It is thoughts/concepts such as this that I feel are destructive and hurtful and setup conflict..."

    Blufire, this is coming from your sense of feeling threatened or rejected. I don't have to justify transitioning from physical foods. In my reality, we are so much more than physical beings, so much more....and actually, I cherish my/our physicality, being here in a body. I listen to my body very closely. If it asks for a particular herb or flower from the garden, I give it to it. If it asks for more or less, I give it. There is no force, and no controlling...just listening, feeling the changes taking place, and adjusting to them, being flexible...being very RNA, haha. I do this because it makes my heart sing - and that is my compass, for living in peace and happiness, in the midst of a turbulent world.
    Does that not seem acceptable to you?



    How you or anyone else chooses to evolve is completely up to you...and I will always say, go with what feels right inside you.
    Last edited by Joanna, 2nd July 2016 at 17:47.

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    Senior Member Joanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by pointessa View Post
    Once again, Joanna a most thoughtful, and beautiful post! I wish I could figure out a way to feel balanced here. I feel the suffering on this planet all the time, and yet it is such a beautiful place. What a juxtaposition.

    If anyone could make the transition to breatharian, I bet it would be you.
    Thanks pointessa, yes it's a huge juxtaposition, and I hope you can figure out the way for you to feel balanced in the midst of it too.
    At a younger age, the way I dealt with the sort of 'ongoing shock' to psyche and emotions of feeling the suffering, as you also do, was by transmuting it into beauty and serenity through art and then writing. The last few years I went through an inner change into a place of peace, which I choose to maintain...because it feels happier, steadier ...and I can create and help more effectively, I feel, from that state.
    This transition - which so far seems to go in a bit of an ebb and flow - is based in gentle self-trust, and that in itself can be a great healing, right? There's almost always more than one layer in 'why' we do things...

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    Member on Sabbatical Morocco modwiz's Avatar
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    Joanna you have added some beautiful and well thought out posts to this thread. Thank you for your generosity of words and spirit.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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    Senior Member Joanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by modwiz View Post
    Joanna you have added some beautiful and well thought out posts to this thread. Thank you for your generosity of words and spirit.
    Thank you too, modwiz Radagast! It's grand to have the Istari on the ground in this Middle Earth, as we find our way through the woods.

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    While reading I remembered remembering that somehow huge populations back in history appeared to need little food, they mostly appeared to be sun cults/believers/religeons. Now when one researches sun gazing, they will find little need for much food as such as one becomes sun gazing applied.

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    Quote Originally posted by blufire View Post
    Modwiz and all else. I truly wish to have an in depth thoughtful dialogue in topics such as this thread. But I also feel strongly that most will not be able to get the past the ‘labels’ that have been stuck to me over the years.

    Are there TOT members out there who can maybe consider another concept other than that we have been ‘fed’ for years? Or that there are other viable views and knowledge out there other than those from a more New Age or current similar groups. I don’t know . . . . my experience is there is not.

    We have literally been cultivated for years with concepts (and memes) such as reptilians are evil, there are benevolent aliens that will rescue us and protecting us from the evil aliens, humans are vile and destructive, we should all be vegans and vegetarians, you aren’t spiritual or worthy unless you can live without food (prana), levitate or experience OBE . . . and other.

    Posts like this (below) from Joanna’s really troubles me, as well as, the pain I literally feel radiating from pointessa’s posts



    Please. Please understand Joanna I am not singling you out or attacking you . . . . . . but I truly do not understand how you can mesh or justify or reason that you want to transition from physical foods when we are physical and organic Beings. It is thoughts/concepts such as this that I feel are destructive and hurtful and setup conflict like that I feel radiating from pointessa.

    We are dual natured Beings. We have two (dual) strands of DNA. We naturally swing from one end of our dual nature to the other or many polarize to one end or the other . . . . never finding that elusive Balance.

    We are Reptilian on one end of the spectrum and Mammalian on the other end.

    Look at our DNA strand model . . . . . it is intertwined with all our genetic codes connecting the two intertwining strands.

    When I read posts from Joanna, modwiz, pointessa, and those like Christina (from PA) I see the Mammalian extreme of our DNA. Highly sensitive, highly empathic, visionaries, highly conflicted with concepts like animal slaughter but somehow reject or ignore massive human suffering and death, highly spiritual and earth connected . . etc.

    The other end of our genetic makeup is Reptilian. Pragmatic, practical to a fault, black and white, technology minded, they take the mammalian visions and make them real and tangible, they mostly reject religion (all kinds), they are the doers, problem solvers . . . .

    Both ends of the spectrum when forced to act together bring conflict, confusion, division, negativity . . . . much how probably many on the forums feel toward me because I tend toward my reptilian nature because the forums (all of them like PA) definitely have a more Mammalian foundation. Just like I (and those like me) react harshly at times to the more mammalian concepts.

    But our utmost challenge is to find that elusive Balance between our Dualistic nature. You can wish and pray and hope that somehow this would go away but it will not, it is who we are and it is our legacy. . . . in all its glory and beauty and wonder. Most importantly we NEED the two opposing DNA strands because with both unified we will be able to do wondrous things. We NEED each other.

    So we are Mammalian and Reptilian and we need to work ever toward Balancing our tendencies to one end or the other. This is how we will survive and most importantly Thrive during this current cycle we are in.

    It all starts with Acceptance and Understanding.

    I no longer hold old ideas and have moved on. I mentioned that in an earlier post. I extended an olive branch by saying let us clear the slate and begin anew. So say what you wish as if we have never exchanged ideas before. Speak your truth and I will listen without judgement. Perhaps without comment either if I disagree on some point. I am done with a war of words.

    I also asked where in Virginia you are located as well as leaving a message on your profile page stating that contention is over and the past will stay there. In so many, or less, words.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

  30. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to modwiz For This Useful Post:

    bsbray (3rd July 2016), Cearna (3rd July 2016), Elen (3rd July 2016), Joanna (3rd July 2016)

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