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Thread: A speech for vegetarianism

  1. #46
    Senior Member Joanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    While reading I remembered remembering that somehow huge populations back in history appeared to need little food, they mostly appeared to be sun cults/believers/religeons. Now when one researches sun gazing, they will find little need for much food as such as one becomes sun gazing applied.
    Hello Aianawa, I meant to reply to this. Yes, I believe sun gazing for nourishment and healing has been around a long while, as has pranic breathing, in the yogic tradition. Living on light and breath isn't new.
    Personally, I enjoy working with visualization creations within my 'Inner Heart' as a landscape, a visualized inner realm, and in that place is everything in the universes, into infinity, and that includes all nourishment...it's basically living in your own Love, living inside it, and letting your reality radiate outward from that place.
    I have found that the 'need' for material foods that I used to have has gradually faded away, and I love this feeling of freedom. In the first instance, I didn't actually make a decision to go off foods and drinks, I just didn't feel hungry any more, and felt an enormous sense of peace and well-being, and nourishment, and still do. At the moment, I still eat and drink, although it varies quite a bit, and I feel that part of it is habitual - as in at present it is winter here (2C yesterday morning) and it's like an old subconscious programme says, 'It's winter, you need to eat more.' But then when I do eat, I very quickly feel full, and have to consciously remember to eat very small amounts, otherwise my body lets me know it's not comfortable, and I feel overfull for hours!
    So it's kind of a flexible process, of being highly in tune with your body, through being in tune with how it is completely unified as an extension of you soul and mind. I feel this whole journey as an act of love, ever deepening...and I think you will understand what that means....

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  3. #47
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Nice nice, yes. I also remember the hugeness of this Gem, Eat As You Breathe . In the later Ringing Cedars books was this Gem, good to ponder upon.

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  5. #48
    Senior Member blufire's Avatar
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    ......

    I think this is a very fair and balanced article about vegan/vegetarian diets. Of course the headline catches your attention because it is negative and inflammatory but toward the end of the article it addresses the malnutrition problems of raising infants on a vegan/vegetarian diet and what parents can do to address those problems.


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-malnutrition/

    An Italian baby raised on a vegan diet is hospitalized for severe malnutrition and removed from parents

    By Mary Hui
    July 11 at 4:44 AM

    When an Italian baby was taken to hospital in Milan earlier this month by his grandparents, doctors there were shocked by the baby’s condition. At 14 months old, he weighed only slightly more than a 3-month-old, according to the Local Italy.

    Upon further examination, a more harrowing picture began to take shape. The baby, whose parents allegedly kept him on a vegan diet without providing dietary supplements, was found to be severely malnourished, suffering from dangerously low calcium levels. Complicating matters, the baby had to undergo an emergency operation because of a congenital heart condition, which was aggravated by his low calcium levels.

    The Local reported that hospital staff reported the case to social services and that the baby’s parents have lost the custodial rights to their child.

    The case “forces us to reflect on uncommon feeding regimes,” Luca Bernardo, director of pediatrics at the hospital, told the Daily Telegraph.

    He was careful not to take sides on the issue of what constitutes an optimal diet for a baby, however. “It is not a problem to choose different or unusual kinds of nutrition, and we certainly do not want to enter into a discussion of the merits of the decision. But since birth, the baby should have had support in this case with calcium and iron,” Bernardo said.

    In recent months, Italy has seen multiple cases of children on vegan diets being hospitalized for malnutrition. In June, a 2-year-old girl was brought to a hospital in Genoa, where she spent several days in intensive care after doctors found her to be suffering from vitamin deficiencies and low levels of hemoglobin. And last June, an 11-month-old baby, whose parents are vegans, was treated for severe malnutrition at a hospital in Florence

    Similar cases have played out in other countries as well. In 2007, a vegan couple were given life sentences after their 6-week-old baby boy died of starvation in 2004. They had fed the baby a diet of mainly soy milk and apple juice, and a jury found the couple guilty of murder, manslaughter and cruelty to children. And in 2011, a French vegan couple were charged with child neglect after their 11-month-old baby died from vitamin deficiencies.

    It’s not necessarily the case that veganism leads to malnourished young children, of course, as a 2007 op-ed in the New York Times titled “Death by Veganism” seemed to suggest, drawing a furious reaction from some vegans, including articles with such titles as “Veganism is Not Child Abuse.”

    “Holy guacamole — can we all just stop the madness when it comes to ill-informed journalists claiming that vegan diets harm/kill babies?!” said a broadside in the Your Daily Vegan. “Every year or so, an article enters the world with inflammatory headlines and content about how dangerous a vegan diet can be for infants and children.”

    As an article in the Spectator last year argued, it isn’t veganism that harms children — it’s neglectful parenting. Veganism, if done right, can give kids all the nutrients they need for healthy growth, experts say.

    The Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics agrees that “well-planned vegetarian and eating patterns are healthy for infants and toddlers,” according to its publication, “Eat Right.” For breast-feeding mothers and for infants who don’t consume milk products and eggs, it recommends supplements or fortified foods for vitamins B12, vitamin D, calcium and iron and advises parents to consult a dietitian.
    Britain’s National Health Service makes similar recommendations.

    “It’s not a problem if parents want to raise their children using alternative or even unusual diets,” the hospital’s head pediatrician told the Corriere, the Local reported.
    “But care needs to be taken to make up for any nutritional shortfalls using supplements. For example, the 1-year-old child we are treating should have been taking iron and calcium supplements.”
    As Slate’s parenting advice columnist put it: “Can kids be vegan and be healthy? Of course they can. Fruits, vegetables, and whole grains are undoubtedly good for growing bodies, and research even suggests an association between veganism and a reduced risk for cancer.”

    But there’s a caveat: Veganism requires a lot of extra work. Parents and caregivers, the Slate columnist writes, “have to ensure that their children are getting the calories and wide variety of nutrients they need — not a small feat when dealing with typically fussy, food-neophobic kids.”
    Last edited by blufire, 11th July 2016 at 15:27.

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  7. #49
    Senior Member Joanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by blufire View Post
    ......

    I think this is a very fair and balanced article about vegan/vegetarian diets. Of course the headline catches your attention because it is negative and inflammatory but toward the end of the article it addresses the malnutrition problems of raising infants on a vegan/vegetarian diet and what parents can do to address those problems.


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-malnutrition/

    [B]
    It's good to see at the end of the article that malnutrition isn't being touted as an inevitable or natural consequence of a vegan diet...which is a myth, and fear-mongering.

    I raised my son vegetarian, in a household with three other boys who were raised vegan. They are now fit/ healthy young men - one is a manual worker, and two of them surf and play football, which is far from the stereotype of 'feed your man meat or he'll be a weakling' that is promoted through MSM in this country.

    It's true you need to now what you're doing to raise vegan kids, which takes a certain level of commitment. Protein, iron and calcium are not hard to come by in a veggie diet, and many people do not realise that the human body can only absorb about 30% of the calcium in dairy milk, and about 60% of the calcium in brussels sprouts, for instance. Many also don't know the finer points of nutrient absorption - and that iron is only absorbed by the human body in the presence of vitamin C...so you should add tomatoes or citrus to your spinach or kale salad.
    Supplements also need to be used with care. It's a good idea for vegans to include kelp or some other form of seaweed in their diet for iodine, yet too much kelp can cause iodine poisoning, so you do have to pay attention to what you're doing.
    It's also not widely known that the phytites in soy products are taken up by the same receptors in the body as zinc, and eating both at the same time can inhibit zinc absorption, and zinc is very important for the immune and endocrine systems.

    When the friend I houseshared with and I were raising our boys, we kept a big chart on the kitchen wall (I think it came from the Vegetarian Society of Australia) which showed what nutrients are in different foods and how to match them for the best absorption. That took the guesswork out of our cooking and kept it easy, and after a while I remembered it all, and it becomes second nature. Going veggie, then vegan, greatly increased my understanding of not only fundamental nutrition/nutrients, but also how they are absorbed, which is the other part of the equation for good health, no matter what diet you have.

    Childhood obesity has increased enormously in Australia in the last decade. Their bodies are basically starving for want of nutrients that can't be attained from the poor quality junk foods they live on, so they're always hungry, their bodies tell them to eat more and more to try and gain the necessary nutrition that is lacking, and they get enormous while starving.
    If one was to see a statistical breakdown, I suspect there are a far higher percentage of people living on 'mainstream diets' than vegan diets who are malnourished and at high risk of heart disease/cancer/diabetes etc than vegans, because people who become vegan generally take an interest in health and well-being, and quite a lot of mainstream folk don't. But it is true that some unlearning and new learning about nutrition is required for veganism. It's not rocket science though, and plenty of vegan diet support and planning can be found online these days, so it's easier than it's ever been (for eg; PETA has free vegan starter kits and dietary planners that cover essential nutrition for newbies).
    I really appreciate being able to go out to a restaurant and order a beautiful vegan dish these days. We went to one of Perth's more expensive restaurants for my son's 18th birthday, and they have an entire vegan menu now, and their truffle risotto and vegan 'cheesecake' were awesome! The times are a-changing....

    Anyway, each to their own. It's up to everyone to decide what sits right for them...and if anything is forced on self or others, it tends to backfire.

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  9. #50
    Senior Member blufire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by modwiz View Post
    I no longer hold old ideas and have moved on. I mentioned that in an earlier post. I extended an olive branch by saying let us clear the slate and begin anew. So say what you wish as if we have never exchanged ideas before. Speak your truth and I will listen without judgement. Perhaps without comment either if I disagree on some point. I am done with a war of words.

    I also asked where in Virginia you are located as well as leaving a message on your profile page stating that contention is over and the past will stay there. In so many, or less, words.

    I agree and am more than willing to let our ‘old history’ go . . . . and we do go back a ways . . . .and begin fresh and anew and build healthier foundations to build from.

    ((((((((( blufire spits in her hand and extends to modwiz to shake on it ))))))))) This is what Appalachian folk do to seal the deal

    Although I am not particularly comfortable in divulging where I live. Last time I did that when I lived in Kansas I had a bunch of strange folks appear on my doorstep.

    I will say I am about as far west as you can get in Virginia without getting into Kentucky, on a mountain ridge, back in the middle of freakn’ nowhere and surrounded by paradise.

    I know where Floyd is and have been there many times. It is a great little town and they have taken hold of the tourism industry in southwest Virginia and made it their own. I will let you know the next time I venture that way.

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  11. #51
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    I have friends down in that corner of VA. Doesn't seem like it would be far but it's more than three hours to Richmond from here. It used to take us seven hours to get to the Outer Banks.
    Is that part of Virginia friendly to vegetarians? I know some people who think not eating meat is unAmerican.

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  13. #52
    Member on Sabbatical Morocco modwiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I have friends down in that corner of VA. Doesn't seem like it would be far but it's more than three hours to Richmond from here. It used to take us seven hours to get to the Outer Banks.
    Is that part of Virginia friendly to vegetarians? I know some people who think not eating meat is unAmerican.
    Yes, there a more than a few vegetarians here in Floyd. The country store regularly serves an excellent veggie chile and they have hummus wraps that I also enjoy. The Mexican restaurant hase several veggie combos and I have a health food store a half a mile from me and a fair amount of or organic food in the supermarket. It's not quite as much variety as Woodstock was but, I am doing fine and like the people better.

    I have been digging up part of the lawn in my back yard to plant some things to eat. A friend is already giving us stuff from his garden. I had some refreshing cucumber juice the other day and put the zucchini in my pasta. Oh yes, fresh kale from him too.

    So, vegetarians are not looked at strangely. We are accepted and provided for.

    Quote Originally posted by blufire View Post
    I agree and am more than willing to let our ‘old history’ go . . . . and we do go back a ways . . . .and begin fresh and anew and build healthier foundations to build from.

    ((((((((( blufire spits in her hand and extends to modwiz to shake on it ))))))))) This is what Appalachian folk do to seal the deal

    Although I am not particularly comfortable in divulging where I live. Last time I did that when I lived in Kansas I had a bunch of strange folks appear on my doorstep.

    I will say I am about as far west as you can get in Virginia without getting into Kentucky, on a mountain ridge, back in the middle of freakn’ nowhere and surrounded by paradise.

    I know where Floyd is and have been there many times. It is a great little town and they have taken hold of the tourism industry in southwest Virginia and made it their own. I will let you know the next time I venture that way.
    Thanks for the acceptance. Spit and all. No need to reveal where you are. The general area suffices. It was curiosity and not travel plans.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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  15. #53
    Senior Member blufire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I have friends down in that corner of VA. Doesn't seem like it would be far but it's more than three hours to Richmond from here. It used to take us seven hours to get to the Outer Banks.
    Is that part of Virginia friendly to vegetarians? I know some people who think not eating meat is unAmerican.
    Where I live most don’t understand (or care about) the terms vegetarians and vegans because they would just look at you with confusion.

    Because they have been eating from the garden and their orchards and woods (plants, mushrooms, berries) for generations.

    In the summer we eat almost solely from the garden and what is in seasonal harvest. In the winter we eat canned/frozen food from the garden and more meat then. I also have fresh greens and root crops almost year round from my 'high tunnels'. I eat little meat through the summer largely because of the bounty of fresh garden and wild crafted foods and because with the amount of work I do outside in hot humid weather I prefer the lighter foods.

    The last several months I have been eating fresh green beans with new potatoes, sautéed swiss chard and kale, fried green tomatoes with cornbread almost every night for dinner. Fresh butter and yogurts and cheese from my dairy cows. I also always have ‘cold soup’ available in the fridge made from tomatoes, cucumber, green and colored peppers, onion, garlic and raw sweet corn. (all from the garden) I am not alone . . . most tables have these same meals

    So yes we are vegetarian friendly because we largely are vegetarian . . . .by our lifestyle and because we homestead not by moral decision or fad.

    Of course, (like everywhere) you have those, who for some reason, don’t think you have had a meal unless it contains meat.

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    You're making me hungry for all that stuff, blufire.

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  19. #55
    Senior Member blufire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    You're making me hungry for all that stuff, blufire.
    come on over and sit a spell. . .

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    This is more like a documentary than a speech.

    Having just seen Alex Honnold in his movie Free Solo, I watched some videos about him and his climbing life. He's vegetarian.

    Last edited by Dreamtimer, 3rd June 2019 at 23:26.

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