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Thread: A speech for vegetarianism

  1. #16
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    Hi Dreamtimer. When I first had some halal meat it was the only thing to compare to that which we had growing up. The cut with halal also leaves one artery intact which allows the heart to pump all of the blood out very quickly.
    We used to have land, just 7 acres, and on some of it, grazed cattle. 4 maximum. 2 young 2 old. They never had names, we fed them and looked after them. An old fellow my folks knew would come and take the shot when the time came. He would quite happily drive home 25km having not taken the shot, if the time was wrong. He could tell if it had been running about or spooked. One time he was all lined up and it turned and looked at him and snorted at him so he put the gun away and went home. A big gun too, and the shot was to a small target at a certain place.
    Anyway, being involved in the process in that way, there's a respect, even a prayer of sorts as you wait to hear the shot.
    When the animal was so relaxed, even with a mouthful of grass still, and then instantly bled out, the meat is "different". I fully understand how the release of chemicals into the body under stress changes all other meat. I see it as a defense mechanism or a cursing.

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    Senior Member blufire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by modwiz View Post
    Agreed, brother. Also, slitting of a throat with a razor sharp knife can even be done without the animal noticing more than what felt like a fly bite. If done while eating, they may even return to eating.....until they fall over.

    Killing needs to be personal to approach legitimacy, IMO.
    I have a feeling modwiz that you have never slit an animal's throat.

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    Super Moderator Norway Elen's Avatar
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    I think you are right there, it's not an easy thing to do, and I don't think it should be either.
    Whatever is true. Whatever is noble. Whatever is right. Whatever is lovely. Whatever is admirable. Anything of excellence and worthy of praise. Dwell on these things. Jesus Christ (I agree)

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    One of my uncles told me a story that one time my great grandpa shot a hog in the head with a short round 16 or 17 times. He said every time they shot that hog in the head, the hog would just shake his head and go on about his business as if nothing happened. Finally they had to stun him with an axe to the head before cutting his throat, very quickly before they knew what happened. That's how they used to kill hogs for food in the winter and it seems at least more humane than what would happen to these hogs in a factory.

    Anyway they said that when they had cleaned it (my great grandpa used to eat the brains and everything), its skull was fractured all over but none of the bullets had gone through because its skull was about 2.5-3 inches thick on top. These hogs would weigh up to around 500 pounds or more too, fed very well all spring and summer.

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    Member on Sabbatical Morocco modwiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by blufire View Post
    I have a feeling modwiz that you have never slit an animal's throat.
    You are correct. I have not had the dubious pleasure of killing an animal that way. I have cut of the heads of many a live fish and shot a frog in half. Could do without the memories. My surmise came from a client of mine who was a bow hunter. He was also a five star French chef and had cooked for DeGaulle. He said the meat of bow hunted animals was superior because the crack of a gun frightened them before death. He recanted a story of shooting a deer through the heart while it was drinking at a stream. The arrow went straight through the deer and it looked up and around, saw nothing and returned to drinking before shortly falling over dead. I knew him to be an honest man but, one never knows.

    Your usual charm tells me that you have and it was not so placid. Perhaps the animal was reacting to your energy. Whatever the case, I still feel that killing should be personal to be an honest one or at least one coming to grips with how flesh came to be in their mouth. I have said the little salmon I eat is wild and eaten for its totemistic energy. I have also said that eating a predator of other animals feels a lot better. I used to like bluefish, a very oily fish with a lot of dark flesh. The trashing of our oceans has me leaving that one alone now.

    As an apologist for much of the mischief on this planet, do you have a story as to the good side of the poisoning of our oceans? I would be curious to hear it.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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  11. #21
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    Quote Originally posted by modwiz View Post
    You are correct. I have not had the dubious pleasure of killing an animal that way. I have cut of the heads of many a live fish and shot a frog in half. Could do without the memories. My surmise came from a client of mine who was a bow hunter. He was also a five star French chef and had cooked for DeGaulle. He said the meat of bow hunted animals was superior because the crack of a gun frightened them before death. He recanted a story of shooting a deer through the heart while it was drinking at a stream. The arrow went straight through the deer and it looked up and around, saw nothing and returned to drinking before shortly falling over dead. I knew him to be an honest man but, one never knows.

    Your usual charm tells me that you have and it was not so placid. Perhaps the animal was reacting to your energy. Whatever the case, I still feel that killing should be personal to be an honest one or at least one coming to grips with how flesh came to be in their mouth. I have said the little salmon I eat is wild and eaten for its totemistic energy. I have also said that eating a predator of other animals feels a lot better. I used to like bluefish, a very oily fish with a lot of dark flesh. The trashing of our oceans has me leaving that one alone now.

    As an apologist for much of the mischief on this planet, do you have a story as to the good side of the poisoning of our oceans? I would be curious to hear it.

    Why modwiz I would have never thought you would want anything in common with Bill Ryan and the rest of the Project Avalon minions. The label of me being an ‘apologist’ was started over on PA by Ryan just before he banned me . . . lol.

    It has always been interesting to me since I have been on alternative type forums how when certain people don’t understand me or deliberately try to undermine my intentions they throw out labels that are inaccurate and demeaning.

    I am not an apologist . . . if anything I am a realist and a pragmatist. Unlike many in the alternative media world and especially the New Age world I find value and knowledge in all points of view . . . even views I fundamentally do not agree with or accept.

    Balance and grace and open heart and open mind . . . always

    I few inaccuracies in your post modwiz. If you are shot and killed with a bullet you never hear the gun report. In the very least the sound of the rifle and impact happens simultaneously. There is no time for fear or pain.

    Ever shot a gun? I have and own several rifles, shotguns and handguns. I am a very good hunter and harvest at least two deer a year to feed my dog’s raw meat throughout the year until next hunting season. I do my own butchering and processing and freeze the meat in daily sized portions. I never take a shot while hunting unless have a full kill shot. They drop where they are standing.

    We do raise the majority of all our food including all our meat. Everything on my farms is raised organically and humanely. All that live on our farm lives in peace, sustainably and synergistically. We do not give thanks and gratitude only at the death of the animal because we give gratitude and thanks and love EVERYDAY we live together.

    To just ‘slit’ an animal’s throat and let it bleed to death is utterly inhumane and painful. It is slow and agonizing and they suffer as they no longer receive oxygen throughout their bodies. We do a ‘kill shot’ at an angle to the head (where the head attaches to the spine) with a .243 or .308 if it is a beef or bison . . . their spirit is released instantaneously. Then we cut the throat so the animal will bleed out.

    As for the poisoning of our oceans and other waters? I am always amused that somehow (again) the alternative community and New Agers and vegans or vegetarians somehow they feel they have no responsibility for atrocities like the poisoning of the oceans. Every last single person on this planet is responsible or at the very least those who live in ‘first world countries’ are clearly responsible . . . . . . and that includes you and me modwiz. There is no ‘good story’ to the poisoning of the oceans. There is only an Understanding and Knowing of how we have gotten to this point and STILL YET refuse to take personal ownership and responsibility.

    I told my Understanding and Knowing and what our future holds for us over on Project Avalon and I was mocked and slandered and demeaned and evidently people like you modwiz choose to continue this ridicule . . . . it makes me very sad for you.

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  13. #22
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    Exclamation

    At this point, I would just like to remind our beloved members not to go ad hominem with one another. Bait was thrown out, and somebody took the bite. Not wise.

    Let's keep to the topic, shall we?

    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Member on Sabbatical Morocco modwiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by blufire View Post
    Why modwiz I would have never thought you would want anything in common with Bill Ryan and the rest of the Project Avalon minions. The label of me being an ‘apologist’ was started over on PA by Ryan just before he banned me . . . lol.

    It has always been interesting to me since I have been on alternative type forums how when certain people don’t understand me or deliberately try to undermine my intentions they throw out labels that are inaccurate and demeaning.

    I am not an apologist . . . if anything I am a realist and a pragmatist. Unlike many in the alternative media world and especially the New Age world I find value and knowledge in all points of view . . . even views I fundamentally do not agree with or accept.

    Balance and grace and open heart and open mind . . . always

    I few inaccuracies in your post modwiz. If you are shot and killed with a bullet you never hear the gun report. In the very least the sound of the rifle and impact happens simultaneously. There is no time for fear or pain.

    Ever shot a gun? I have and own several rifles, shotguns and handguns. I am a very good hunter and harvest at least two deer a year to feed my dog’s raw meat throughout the year until next hunting season. I do my own butchering and processing and freeze the meat in daily sized portions. I never take a shot while hunting unless have a full kill shot. They drop where they are standing.

    We do raise the majority of all our food including all our meat. Everything on my farms is raised organically and humanely. All that live on our farm lives in peace, sustainably and synergistically. We do not give thanks and gratitude only at the death of the animal because we give gratitude and thanks and love EVERYDAY we live together.

    To just ‘slit’ an animal’s throat and let it bleed to death is utterly inhumane and painful. It is slow and agonizing and they suffer as they no longer receive oxygen throughout their bodies. We do a ‘kill shot’ at an angle to the head (where the head attaches to the spine) with a .243 or .308 if it is a beef or bison . . . their spirit is released instantaneously. Then we cut the throat so the animal will bleed out.

    As for the poisoning of our oceans and other waters? I am always amused that somehow (again) the alternative community and New Agers and vegans or vegetarians somehow they feel they have no responsibility for atrocities like the poisoning of the oceans. Every last single person on this planet is responsible or at the very least those who live in ‘first world countries’ are clearly responsible . . . . . . and that includes you and me modwiz. There is no ‘good story’ to the poisoning of the oceans. There is only an Understanding and Knowing of how we have gotten to this point and STILL YET refuse to take personal ownership and responsibility.

    I told my Understanding and Knowing and what our future holds for us over on Project Avalon and I was mocked and slandered and demeaned and evidently people like you modwiz choose to continue this ridicule . . . . it makes me very sad for you.
    Oh Blufire. It is nothing that cannot be remedied by dialogue and understanding. So let us make that an objective. Generalizations, on anyone's part is definitely part of that path. So tabla raza, sister, and a new start. I'm game. Well, not the kind you shoot.

    My reliance of anecdotal information might be part of my ignorance on certain subjects. That can be remedied as well.

    What part of VA are you in? I am in Floyd. Just curious, not threatening a surprise visit, lol.
    Last edited by modwiz, 26th June 2016 at 00:58.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    At this point, I would just like to remind our beloved members not to go ad hominem with one another. Bait was thrown out, and somebody took the bite. Not wise.

    Let's keep to the topic, shall we?

    Yes, that comparison with BR was a low blow. But, I guess when it comes to being a dick, she has a point.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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    Quote Originally posted by modwiz View Post
    Yes, that comparison with BR was a low blow. But, I guess when it comes to being a dick, she has a point.
    As they say, it takes two to tango, but there are of course different styles of tango. The one that appeared to be unfolding here didn't have a nice rhythm to it, which is why I felt that I needed to remind people of the correct beat.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Quote Originally posted by blufire View Post
    Why modwiz I would have never thought you would want anything in common with Bill Ryan and the rest of the Project Avalon minions. The label of me being an ‘apologist’ was started over on PA by Ryan just before he banned me . . . lol.

    It has always been interesting to me since I have been on alternative type forums how when certain people don’t understand me or deliberately try to undermine my intentions they throw out labels that are inaccurate and demeaning.

    I am not an apologist . . . if anything I am a realist and a pragmatist. Unlike many in the alternative media world and especially the New Age world I find value and knowledge in all points of view . . . even views I fundamentally do not agree with or accept.

    Balance and grace and open heart and open mind . . . always

    I few inaccuracies in your post modwiz. If you are shot and killed with a bullet you never hear the gun report. In the very least the sound of the rifle and impact happens simultaneously. There is no time for fear or pain.

    Ever shot a gun? I have and own several rifles, shotguns and handguns. I am a very good hunter and harvest at least two deer a year to feed my dog’s raw meat throughout the year until next hunting season. I do my own butchering and processing and freeze the meat in daily sized portions. I never take a shot while hunting unless have a full kill shot. They drop where they are standing.

    We do raise the majority of all our food including all our meat. Everything on my farms is raised organically and humanely. All that live on our farm lives in peace, sustainably and synergistically. We do not give thanks and gratitude only at the death of the animal because we give gratitude and thanks and love EVERYDAY we live together.

    To just ‘slit’ an animal’s throat and let it bleed to death is utterly inhumane and painful. It is slow and agonizing and they suffer as they no longer receive oxygen throughout their bodies. We do a ‘kill shot’ at an angle to the head (where the head attaches to the spine) with a .243 or .308 if it is a beef or bison . . . their spirit is released instantaneously. Then we cut the throat so the animal will bleed out.

    As for the poisoning of our oceans and other waters? I am always amused that somehow (again) the alternative community and New Agers and vegans or vegetarians somehow they feel they have no responsibility for atrocities like the poisoning of the oceans. Every last single person on this planet is responsible or at the very least those who live in ‘first world countries’ are clearly responsible . . . . . . and that includes you and me modwiz. There is no ‘good story’ to the poisoning of the oceans. There is only an Understanding and Knowing of how we have gotten to this point and STILL YET refuse to take personal ownership and responsibility.

    I told my Understanding and Knowing and what our future holds for us over on Project Avalon and I was mocked and slandered and demeaned and evidently people like you modwiz choose to continue this ridicule . . . . it makes me very sad for you.
    blufire, thank you for a most heartfelt post. I don't eat meat or use animal skins or products because I could not kill one myself. Having said that , I realize I kill all kinds of living things every day. When I garden, or mow my lawn I am killing all sorts of creatures so I don't feel I get to stand in judgement of anyone. No one gets to live on this planet without killing other living things so that they can survive. I actually have respect for someone that is able to hunt their meat in a responsible way, if in fact they are going to eat meat. There is an awareness there that someone can't get by buying a neatly, sanitized chunk of meat at the grocery store.

    I believe that those non meat eaters that take a holier than thou approach are stifling communication and negating the benefits that might otherwise have occurred. You are absolutely correct, no one is blameless here, at least no humans are blameless. The systems that we live under are so invasive and so corrupted that if one participates in any of it they are helping to keep it propped up. The part that I have the most problem with is the utter lack of respect shown the animal and plant kingdoms by humans. They are a sort of whipping boy that we can abuse and make profits off of. We ridicule and disrespect them in the media and personify them in ridiculous ways in animated entertainment for children's entertainment. We torture them in factory farms so we can make a little more money off of them. We are collectively sociopathic as a race against all other living things on this planet and for that I am deeply ashamed.

    I don't not eat animals because I feel I am righteous and blameless, I don't do it because I just couldn't live with myself. I often wonder what I would do if killing an animal was the only way I could stay alive. To be honest, I am ashamed to be a human. There is nothing I can do to make it alright. I volunteer for multiple animal rescue operations and its not a drop in the bucket. I used to think that doing this would make me feel better, it doesn't. It just shows me the futility of trying to correct this massive imbalance when so few even give a rip.

    I just wanted to let you know that I get what you are saying and I have respect for you. Please don't feel that you are not being heard. I am glad that we can have some commonality in our differences.

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    Pointessa, don't be ashamed to be a human. Be proud to be a good one. I've no doubt you are. This world is challenging to live in. When you move on you'll hopefully be wiser and will have left a good mark on the world. :unity:

    blufire, thanks much for the info regarding throat slitting and the kill shot. I have no personal experience with any of these methods. I very much appreciate the mention of releasing the animals spirit.

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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Pointessa, don't be ashamed to be a human. Be proud to be a good one. I've no doubt you are. This world is challenging to live in. When you move on you'll hopefully be wiser and will have left a good mark on the world. :unity:

    blufire, thanks much for the info regarding throat slitting and the kill shot. I have no personal experience with any of these methods. I very much appreciate the mention of releasing the animals spirit.

    Dreamtimer, I appreciate you taking the time to write an encouraging post. I do tend to fall into hopelessness and fatalism. There are times when I don't feel I can take another breath here. But, your kindness, in this case has had a calming effect for me, for that I express gratitude and thankfulness. You never know when a kind word, a smile, or a bit of conversation can have a major impact on a sad, lost soul.

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    "You never know when a kind word, a smile, or a bit of conversation can have a major impact on a sad, lost soul." That's what I taught my son and he took to heart. Thank you.

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    Quote Originally posted by pointessa View Post
    Dreamtimer, I appreciate you taking the time to write an encouraging post. I do tend to fall into hopelessness and fatalism. There are times when I don't feel I can take another breath here. But, your kindness, in this case has had a calming effect for me, for that I express gratitude and thankfulness. You never know when a kind word, a smile, or a bit of conversation can have a major impact on a sad, lost soul.
    Pointessa, I just want to say that with Dreamtimer it is inbuilt because she's a Libra at heart and in reality. They all have the gift of being nice and uplifting, most of the time. Glad you appreciate it too.
    Whatever is true. Whatever is noble. Whatever is right. Whatever is lovely. Whatever is admirable. Anything of excellence and worthy of praise. Dwell on these things. Jesus Christ (I agree)

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