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Thread: Sim Theory - We May Actually Be In The Matrix (2016)

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally posted by lcam88 View Post
    ADDENDUM (I'll make it short)

    The aspect of "fall from innocence" that is important, whether in the religious context or the context of "tarnishing of the golden", is simply that somethings can never return to the prestine state that it was.

    Can't unbreak an egg.

    Once you curse at your neighbor, forever will those words have been said and there is no undoing it.

    Similar to opening "Pandora's Box" in that the box can never be closed to contain what was let out.

    Once we start seeing flaws in others around us, our reaction to their presence cannot return to what it was priorly...

    Once the bio-life in a lake has been damaged by pollution, it can never return to the same point, but it can recover to a new state that is equally thriving of life even while the scars remain.

    Perhaps even you could say that once a celestial alignment is lost, you can never find it again. You are left ever searching for a new alignment that may never be as complete. Not to say it is impossible.

    It is impossible until we get on track to making it possible. <smile/>
    I enjoyed reading this thread. In lots of ways, I think I come form the same POV that Joanna observes. I personally agree that this seems like a simulation but that does only validate the blameless and purposeful point of experience. IMO our experience is the most important point and how can one experience without breaking some eggs???

    Those "forces" that would have us be paralyzed by our angst over making mistakes are holding all to a value system that is the simulation ON TOP of a natural set of lawful relationships. The holding our hands to the flames of torture for our "sins" is form that which IMO hates the alive, the changing and the EXPERIENCING of what is divine human in form.

    Synchronistically this was in my inbox today from a Seth (Jane Roberts) group.

    THE NATURE OF THE PSYCHE
    IT'S HUMAN EXPRESSION

    Chapter 11

    THE UNIVERSE AND THE PSYCHE


    Session 799..... continued


    "Now: Make a distinction in your mind between man and man's work. Argue all you want against his works, as you read in your newspapers of errors, stupidities, treachery or war. Collect pages and reams of such material if it suits your fancy - and I am speaking not only to you, or to Ruburt, but to anyone who hopes to find a hint of truth, peace of mind, or creativity."

    "Collect books of man's failures. I do not personally know why anyone would collect the worst works of any artist, and get pleasure in ripping them apart. Man has produced some fine works: The high level of verbal communication, the multitudinous varieties of emotional interactions and of cultural exchange, the facility with exteriorization of ideas and concepts, the reaches of the imagination - all of these, and many others, are unique in the universe."
    I imagine that this "world" is a created physical realm. I am flabbergasted by the perfect proportions that occur in nature as in the ones between the sun and moon and earth. I read quite a bit of writing on sacred geometry form John Michell and others.



    “A tradition which has been credited by many learned men over the centuries is that the ancients encoded their knowledge of the world in the dimensions of their sacred monuments.” They used “… an esoteric code of number, harmony and proportion which was supposed to reflect the perfectly structured mind of the Creator. — John Michell
    Our perceptions of what is are very limited. It has been shown that we screen out the majority of what is in front of us. So there is MUCH more than what senses can take in.
    As far as making models, even now people are extending the sacred geometric understandings as Buckminster Fuller did and Frank Chester is doing.

    Frank Chester has been exploring the relation between form and spirit. This has led him to take up research concerning the number seven, and in 2000 he discovered a new geometric form never seen before. Putting this form through the alchemical transformative process of Earth, Water, Air, and Fire, many previously unknown geometric structures have emerged. Also this geometric form demonstrates a remarkable correlation to the form and functioning of the human heart. On the basis of experimentation with various related geometric forms and the movement of water in a vortex, Frank is uncovering indications concerning the relationship between etheric formative forces and the geometry, structure, and physiology of the human heart. Thus the form is called the Chestahedron, both after its discoverer and because the form relates to the geometry of the heart, which sits in the chest.
    The sacred relationships exist in nature everywhere so there is no denying the existence of "intelligence" in the design. What I suspect is that human minds have emulated the way that a Divine Creator operates but not so well. I imagine that presence in LIFE in this "world" is quite an honor rather than a punishment and that our ability to recognize the beauty and Majesty is a sign that we are connected to this whole enterprise.

    When we appreciate and FEEL the joy of being a part of this opportunity, we are different than when we fear this earth as an enemy. IMO we are creating from a very definite and very contrasting and very polarized divine perspective as humans. The experience in this matrix of consequences of choices seems like maybe being placed in a simulation FOR the purpose of a larger reason????

    What supports LIFE is LOVE. I have no doubt that we can directly sense what LOVE is on a human scale and see how it's workings can swell to encompass everything we could possibly perceive. To love and to thwart love make very different paths...

    I take on that Creator is not static and changeless and that any attempt to make up a "perfect" set of changeless forms which will then be adhered to repeating is thwarting love! THIS sounds like the workings of the antithesis of LIFE. If I were Creator learning about the consequences of choice, I'd have some place to observe this process. Then I'd gather the life loving energies and leave the rest. Why would that which hates life want to continue anyway? Loving what is created and wishing to extend that distinguishes the really valuable from the chaff.
    Last edited by Maggie, 16th April 2016 at 16:28.

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    Very insightful response.

    I especially like the view you share supporting the idea of purpose and responsibility (validate blameless). I identify very much with the perfect proportions in nature though I will confess I am less read up the specific literature you mention.

    “A tradition which has been credited by many learned men over the centuries is that the ancients encoded their knowledge of the world in the dimensions of their sacred monuments.” They used “… an esoteric code of number, harmony and proportion which was supposed to reflect the perfectly structured mind of the Creator. — John Michell
    Here again we can identify an example of "perfection in form", being the codifications of knowledge engraved in stone reflecting a perfect structured mind, VS the "perfection in truth" being a reminder set in stone so that we may remember, or access knowledge held within as though our own mind is one with the Creator.

    By the latter, records and/or encodings of knowledge as on a stone table or monuments have actually been created only to remind posterity (us), and to provide a way to stimulate ourselves to see something already right before us, something in our mind. It is quite a "fall" when suddenly we look upon the reminders to be the knowledge in and of itself.

    This difference is exactly the same type as the neoplatonic example of Moses I shared earlier. A difference in perspective possible only when we knows who we are.

    Put as a question: does the perfect form before our senses help us better know who we are?

    Fundamentally it must be about self knowledge, knowing oneself, because even to interpret and decode knowledge from a perfect form one must match the information with references within. That idea itself is meaningless indeed unless you can retrieve a memory of an experience or emotion that has a relationship (create an impedance match within the mind).

    Indeed all spoken language requires it. Languages we don't speak are not understood not because they are meaningless, but because we can't match the encoded idea to our own experiences.

    When we refer to inner knowledge or universal knowledge, a type of telos (greek: aim, end, purpose) is required for understanding for the same reasons.

    I don't know how else to describe what I mean by "perfection in truth".

    Quote Originally posted by Maggie
    Our perceptions of what is are very limited. It has been shown that we screen out the majority of what is in front of us. So there is MUCH more than what senses can take in. As far as making models, even now people are extending the sacred geometric understandings as Buckminster Fuller did and Frank Chester is doing.
    As far as being a part of the matrix and our disposition at the current moment, consider that modern society has had us bludgeoned into a submission of the mind to think and believe that we are limited. Indeed it is only because we believe we are limited that the reminders (above) appear to be a source of knowledge. Our society and our ego has punished us for "being wrong" to such extent that we prefer to be unreceptive of truth.

    Models then are helpful as we try to identify our errors before we get punished "by them". But if indeed they are regarded as a source of truth, they are perfections in form only.

    Mind you Joanna, Maggie and everyone else this view is one I'm exploring right now; I haven't spent a lot of time elaborating the nuances in preparations. It is very much an idea that has come into mind at this very moment.

    Quote Originally posted by Maggie
    Those "forces" that would have us be paralyzed by our angst over making mistakes are holding all to a value system that is the simulation ON TOP of a natural set of lawful relationships. The holding our hands to the flames of torture for our "sins" is form that which IMO hates the alive, the changing and the EXPERIENCING of what is divine human in form.


    To hold us all to a value system of any kind requires that we seek or at least accept authority from some something outside (something accepted as perfection in form). Indeed the institution of law is exactly that, something that demands acceptance as an unquestionable authority, (a claim to perfect form). Because it is so flawed nobody would seek it out, indeed it must be made so that it must be accepted; the threat of harm being the underpinning of conformity, harm that threatens survival and existence. That is the nature of the "simulation ON TOP of the natural set".

    Quote Originally posted by Seth (Jane Roberts) group
    "Now: Make a distinction in your mind between man and man's work. Argue all you want against his works, as you read in your newspapers of errors, stupidities, treachery or war. Collect pages and reams of such material if it suits your fancy - and I am speaking not only to you, or to Ruburt, but to anyone who hopes to find a hint of truth, peace of mind, or creativity."

    "Collect books of man's failures. I do not personally know why anyone would collect the worst works of any artist, and get pleasure in ripping them apart. Man has produced some fine works: The high level of verbal communication, the multitudinous varieties of emotional interactions and of cultural exchange, the facility with exteriorization of ideas and concepts, the reaches of the imagination - all of these, and many others, are unique in the universe."
    I didn't understand, the quote appears to be an incomplete idea Maggie. Everything seems to be in reference to a man's work, and not the man himself. If the author wishes to visit a distinction between man and man's work, he need make mention to more than just his work.

    Maybe all of mans work in deriving pleasure from the horrid is all a gentle protest. Something that emerges as matching impedance with the negative value of the system imposed by force. A souring of the milk so to speak. What does that say about man?

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    Quote Originally posted by Sam Hunter View Post
    The "Absolute" which then finds a way to manifest in form sets up relativity and has entered a simulation by that very action.

    From the perspective of the Absolute, this is all simulation and in every way "it" arises.
    Any mystics on this forum?

    How can we discuss matters without regard to the ineffable?

    Where does form begin to manifest?

    When does form become "real?"

    Lot's of views on this thread yet what seems missing is an agreement as to what might be the single foundation from which all these discussions are anchored? Do we start at 3D, material realm physicality? Is that all there is? Do we start at some imaginative realm we might call "the spiritual" or at least "spiritual in nature?" And where ever we start, "who" or "what" made that?

    Just Sunday morning wonderings...
    All the above is all and only my opinion. It may contain some sharing of components of my current operating strategy and some foundational components of my current world view - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

    It's just a ride

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    I have no explanation for this funny and not so funny coincidences
    which happened to me for example approcs. once per month.
    (follow the white rabbit)
    are we (humans) in a special sleep state and or hypnotize each other
    without a non stop end.

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    I am a life long mystic and discussing the ineffable is a fool's game. Act upon what is given to one in their heart and we will see the Ineffable in action. Words are inadequate to the task of describing this deeply personal, intimate is a better word, communication. In person a conversation might produce fruit, in a forum it is a circle jerk.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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    Quote Originally posted by Sam Hunter View Post
    Any mystics on this forum?

    How can we discuss matters without regard to the ineffable?

    Where does form begin to manifest?

    When does form become "real?"

    Lot's of views on this thread yet what seems missing is an agreement as to what might be the single foundation from which all these discussions are anchored? Do we start at 3D, material realm physicality? Is that all there is? Do we start at some imaginative realm we might call "the spiritual" or at least "spiritual in nature?" And where ever we start, "who" or "what" made that?

    Just Sunday morning wonderings...
    What I see as the heart of your "Sunday morning wonderings..." is the whole notion of creativity.
    In its entirety.
    Not just, "Where does form begin to manifest"
    nor, "When does form become "real?""
    nor, the "the single foundation" etc.

    And since we are creatures of and deeply involved with creativity, this query encompasses not only the who and what we are, but the very nature of reality itself.

    And as modwiz stated "this deeply personal, intimate is a better word, communication" is our own connection to the source of this creativity, which resides within and which can manifest without.

    This is, at least for me, of key significance, especially these days as the changes we are in the midst of are morphing us, from the inside out.
    Or perhaps, unlocking our inherent but constrained and contained full potential is another perspective from which to approach and view these internal, individual and foundational changes.

    And the common aspect of significance is that these foundational changes of creativity itself, both our personal as well as their 'bigger picture' aspects, apply to our reality, and are morphing right before our eyes, and is 'originating' and manifesting from within us.
    Right now.

    Which means answers to these sorts of inquiries will become known more fully as we 'remember' how to access our own creativity more completely.

    In essence "the ineffable" is directly accessible from within via our own consciousness such that we can come to understand ourselves all the more.
    Which is akin to #3 of my sigline.

    JJ
    Last edited by johnjen325, 17th April 2016 at 20:52.

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    Really enjoying all the comments above, Maggie, lcam, Sam, and this from Modwiz:

    "Act upon what is given to one in their heart and we will see the Ineffable in action. Words are inadequate to the task of describing this deeply personal, intimate is a better word, communication."

    And this from johnjen:

    " these foundational changes of creativity itself, both our personal as well as their 'bigger picture' aspects, apply to our reality, and are morphing right before our eyes, and is 'originating' and manifesting from within us.
    Right now.

    Which means answers to these sorts of inquiries will become known more fully as we 'remember' how to access our own creativity more completely.

    In essence "the ineffable" is directly accessible from within via our own consciousness such that we can come to understand ourselves all the more."


    Beautifully expressed, thank you.

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    Creativity Part Deux (DO)

    When I wrote the preceding post about creativity I knew there was a whole bunch that wasn't included, but I didn't want to dive right into the deep end right from the start so I waited and wrote this up as a follow up…

    Now,
    to drop the other shoe.

    Creativity is at the heart, indeed IS the very heart of these changes we are experiencing. It is the central theme that encompasses what we will become, that being truly empowered creative beings.
    And this reflects both the power and responsibility that creativity brings to the fore.
    As in what we create we must also take responsibility for and learn from.

    So what do we choose to do with our newly acquired ancient creative abilities?
    To what and where do we choose to aim our creative potential?
    And how do we effectively focus ourselves to make manifest what our creative potential is fully capable of?

    My answer anyways is, by what we focus our awareness and make a conscious choice upon, using our understanding and accrued wisdom we have at hand.
    And do so as our guide and as the base of our awareness of what is not only possible, but desireable.

    IOW what we focus upon, and involve ourselves with, manifests as a result of our creativity…

    Let that sink in for a minute…
    Now.

    This points directly at the key to the lock, our own personal lock of and to ourselves, which is also the lock that binds us to our self maintained perception of what is, all of which is based upon our past.

    Now,
    we can refocus upon what we desire, what we know of as a ‘Better’ way, if we should so choose…
    In essence using the wisdom gained from the past and directing it forward into our own future.

    And what we choose to create ripples outward from us to all those we influence, in one way or another.
    And we do influence many more folks than we are aware of.

    A striking case in point is, think of all those internet trolls and those of their ilk that ‘pollute’ the web.
    What do they spend their time doing?
    What are they focussed upon?
    How is their creativity being used?
    And for what purpose?
    Because that is what they are creating for themselves, as well as for those who choose to engage in such activities.

    Our ability to consciously manifest our creativity is more than just what we think about, thankfully.
    It also must involve a conscious choice coupled with a desire and intent.
    This is the heart of the key itself.

    When we combine/couple our mental acuity with our heart felt power of our emotional selves, then we fully ‘engage’ and enable our full potential creative ability.,
    here and
    Now.

    This speaks directly to the degree of “Know Thyself” which leads to some very important and primary fundamental changes to our self perception of what, and who, and where we TRULY are.

    And a few very interesting concepts that are directly associated with our creative potential include, Sovereignty, Freedom, and being fully responsible, for, and of, and to, ourselves and all to others, for what we create.
    This is where not being afraid to make ‘mistakes’ can be a HUGE step up in the rate and degree of complexity of the life lessons which are presented as a result of making the choices we do.

    IOW be careful of the choices that are made, as they just might (& now really will and much more quickly) come to pass.
    And all of this is based upon our own choices.

    So as the saying goes, “Choose Wisely”.

    And there are other aspects of this key as well, such as how to best couple our minds analytic and intellectual prowess and our hearts inner guidance and knowing.
    This is the conjoining and coupling of our full capability of being creative.

    So if I were to choose just one summation of how to optimize our creative potential it would be idealized in the saying,
    “Do what you Love and Love what you Do”.

    For most this might (still) seem like wishful thinking, or perhaps is unrealistic, or is pure fantasy.
    But the consequences of that type of imprinting and all manner of other self limitations, for some, may take some time to see thru.
    But others may see the beautiful simplicity and utter elegance of how we are ‘wired’ to enable ourselves, in just this manner.


    JJ

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    Beautiful post, johnjen325.

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    My answer anyways is, by what we focus our awareness and make a conscious choice upon, using our understanding and accrued wisdom we have at hand.
    And do so as our guide and as the base of our awareness of what is not only possible, but desireable.

    IOW what we focus upon, and involve ourselves with, manifests as a result of our creativity…
    Just hitting the nail on the head there...

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    The night before last I dreamed one of the most lucidly dreamed dreams I ever experienced. In the dream I recall being the "waking state me" observing "me" in the dream. The "me" in the dream was exploring a futuristic city that I "knew" in the dream was London. I ran into David Gilmour (guitarist for Pink Floyd) who treated me as an old friend. I recalled the "waking state me" thinking how incredible this virtual reality was.

    Suddenly up walks Roger Waters (an ex-Pink Floyd band mate who left the band in an adversarial way) who also engaged with both me and Gilmour. Gilmour and Waters were cordial if not outright kind with each other. I then found myself alone talking just with Waters.

    Both the "waking state me" and "me" in the dream were thinking about it but always in a separate way. I suddenly noticed that Roger Waters had walked off. I then saw him about 30 feet away with his back to me. I started talking to him again. Then he turned around and when he did I saw he had those virtual reality goggles on and he seemed very absorbed in his current experience and either waved me off or told me he was "busy" telepathically...

    I recalled both the "waking state me" and the "me" in the dream thinking wow... three levels of virtual reality. Note that this implies the waking state as a virtual reality level just as much as the dream state VR just as much as Roger Water's current experience with the goggles.

    The three levels I thought about were -

    "the waking state me" (the same "me" that is typing this post at this time).

    the "me" in the dream that was on the same level as Roger Waters.

    The VR that Roger Waters was experiencing through the glasses.


    All this made me ponder that it certainly is possible there are levels and layers of VR all on top of each other. And that if that is the case, how could I know which level this "waking state" experience might be?


    Another thought I had was, if this is a virtual reality... why am I taking it so seriously?


    And the last thought I had was... just like all types of "programs" (simulated realities seem very much to be programs)... a program can be hacked. I then reconsidered again the suggestion of "the archontic paradigm myth" and realized that some of my actions as well as some of the actions of others could have been influenced by a third party agency such as an archon (or a group of archons or an AI system created by the archons). And that if that maybe is the case, how can I possibly be upset with another based on their behavior?

    Suddenly I saw the word - "Compassion" float past my own mindscape screen.

    We shall see how long this revelation will last as to its current profound effect.
    All the above is all and only my opinion. It may contain some sharing of components of my current operating strategy and some foundational components of my current world view - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

    It's just a ride

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    Senior Member United States Chester's Avatar
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    I just saw what may be a true "gem" in what I wrote in the post above...

    Even though at least two realities were occur for me simultaneously, I recalled how each of the two "me"s had their own separate thoughts even though I the primary me (the one I referred to as "the waking state me" which is also in this case the lucid dreamer) is the only one I sensed was aware of both "me"s.

    So if I imagine there be an individuated being... then perhaps to that being's "level 1" "individuated self" may be the ultimate primary point of view that considers all the views of each "me" at each level and that THAT is what makes up the theoretical "soul!"

    Perhaps for me one of the greatest mysteries I have yet to solve to my satisfaction is the following group of questions.

    Is the ultimate "me" a spirit being? Meaning the very first iteration of source individuated?

    If so... where does "soul" enter into the picture if there even is such?

    Some say "spirit" and "soul" (to them) are the same thing.

    My gut tells me that is not the case.

    So then what might really be the truth?



    And then these thoughts - if we are all "individuated spirit beings" and there is a difference between that and "a soul" then... is it possible some individuated spirit beings have no soul and others do?

    The way so many people act lead me to believe this may very well be possible. Having said that, I have worried that if this could be true, maybe I don't have a soul. I worry about this because at times I can become viscous.
    All the above is all and only my opinion. It may contain some sharing of components of my current operating strategy and some foundational components of my current world view - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

    It's just a ride

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    Sam, I don't think the fact that you become vicious is anything other than that you are human. It's a possibility to a greater or lesser degree depending on when and who.

    I don't know the answer to soul and spirit. Some believe there can be many. Some very powerful individuals are believed to have many souls. Don't know how they've accumulated.

    I think it's fantastic being aware of different states of being at once. Awesome.

    "wow... three levels of virtual reality." Each of them equally important (I think you're saying).

    Just today people are talking about us being avatars in this world. A dreamer dreaming of a dream...

    It all matters because our experiences all matter. And we have possibilities and thus choices.

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    Sam: I've asked those same questions. Pondered them, even answered them.

    And regardless of any answers whether they be right, wrong, aligned with the golden triangle or metaphoric, I've concluded that knowing doesn't really change anything.

    I think the reason is, the true knowledge of ones self, as a rationalization of all the references we have is still, at most, on the same "Great Plain of the mind" where the rest of our consciousness connects and "interacts" with the experiences and the universe. No amount of rationalized "truth" can override or circumvent that which we are.

    Your dream is interesting; can it be that we exist as a loop may exist within another loop?

    Consider the "loop" that we may exist in now. An individual? Then as the "container loop", the spirit or soul that also exists "as part of us". Perhaps as not quite so individual as it can "see" it is composed of other individuals on the "inside"... Indeed if we look closely at our bodies we may notice we too are composed of individuals: cells indeed are individually living.

    I like to notice all of that as "the fractal". Perhaps parts of a fibonacci spiral (we are the sum of our parts, conscious and otherwise, at least).

    Perhaps that which we are is an issue of perspective.

    You do have your perspective don't you? Perhaps that is the only thing "truth" or knowledge is good for: the perspective. And then a twist: deciding if the perspective is indeed yours, or if you belong to the perspective. But does it really matter? (I like that "You are not your thoughts thread")

    Your dream can easily just be the issue of what perspective you have of yourself.

    Artists often must have a very refined sense of their "work"; self-examination through ones art is not a new idea. Dianetics is about self examination while revisiting a painful moment, perhaps to desensitize the mind to automatic reactionaries code in or overwritten somehow. Zen is about getting to know yourself "at rest" or "at ease"...

    Thanks for sharing BTW.
    Last edited by lcam88, 2nd May 2016 at 18:07.

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  29. #60
    Senior Member United States Chester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by lcam88 View Post
    Perhaps that which we are is an issue of perspective.
    Ahhh but that was also what I had hoped to describe and distinguish. In the two realities which a "me" experienced... which was occurring simultaneously by two distinctly different "me"s had different perspectives and in some ways, different thoughts.

    For example, the "waking state me" thought about "the me in the dream" and considered the thoughts that the me in the dream was having... while also sensing it was the "waking state me" at that same time! Yet the "me in the dream" only seemed to recognize itself and had no clue of "the waking state me" that was dreaming him.

    And when the "me in the dream" saw Rogers Waters with the goggles in, he thought... "wow, Roger waters wants me to leave him alone and the reason is that he is engaged in experiencing the virtual reality experienced via the combination of his perceptions and what he saw through the goggles. Yet "the waking state me" (which was lucidly dreaming this all was thinking - "wow! three levels of reality where I knw at least two are virtual... could the one I experience when I am "awake" be virtual as well?

    And so maybe to the "spirit" (be there one or to "the soul" be there one or to that "spirit/soul complex" be there one... this waking sate reality might be seen as a virtual reality from that perspective.

    All pretty mind blowing to consider these things (IMHO).
    All the above is all and only my opinion. It may contain some sharing of components of my current operating strategy and some foundational components of my current world view - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

    It's just a ride

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGD...vgBsCHmlC13jOg

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