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Thread: Trump: Illusion, Mist and Bought?

  1. #1471
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Oh great, another thread about Donald Trump ─ like there weren't enough of them yet, right?








    I am merging this thread with the "Trump: Illusion, Mist & Bought?" thread.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  3. #1472
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    The Squad has been in the news, you may not have got that news over your way Aragorn, next time I will do my best to leave Trump name out of thread, they are imo news worthy of their own thread but you know best sir.

    ps If enough people realised they were Trump sales people by their actions, he would likely dissipate and just maybe MW will get more air n energy.

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  5. #1473
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    The Squad has been in the news, you may not have got that news over your way Aragorn,
    Indeed not, unless you are talking about Trump's racist comment about those four female politicians. That one has been in the news here, yes. But the term "squad" has not been mentioned here in any way, shape or form, and so I don't know what you're referring to, other than that it is obviously going to be about Trump again.

    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    next time I will do my best to leave Trump name out of thread, they are imo news worthy of their own thread but you know best sir.
    A link and a brief description would have been useful.

    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    ps If enough people realised they were Trump sales people by their actions, he would likely dissipate and just maybe MW will get more air n energy.
    To be honest, I don't think it's that simple. The QAnon phenomenon in and of itself is already making sure that Donald Trump stays in the attention, and his own tweets do the same. And he did from the start ─ and currently still does ─ have a great number of US Americans behind him. I personally think that the chances of him getting re-elected for a second term are very real.

    Marianne Williamson on the other hand, as sympathetic as she may be ─ and I personally do like her ─ represents a breach with the tradition of corporately sponsored candidates, and she is a woman, and she does not subscribe to the warmongering of the Pentagon and the military-industrial complex, so I regard the chances very real that her own party ─ the US Democrats ─ will shove her aside in favor of a candidate who continues supporting the status quo. I'll put it even stronger: it is my firm belief that the US Democrats would rather allow Bernie Sanders to run against Donald Trump than that they would support Marianne Williamson, because The Powers That Be™ know that Sanders can be manipulated and pushed around ─ as became evident when they got him to step aside in favor of Hillary Clinton back in 2016.

    After all, the US presidential elections have never been about changing the course of the USA as a nation, whether national or international. The Powers That Be™ will not allow that. The only thing they will allow is a moderate amount of variation in how the next president of the USA will be going about at serving their agenda, but the agenda will always be the same.

    It's a system one simply cannot break ─ even though it should definitely be broken ─ because the US population has already for many decades been so far gone that they know nothing other than the system as it exists, and that they can't think out of the box. Trump's success in spite of his preposterous and ostensibly pro-fascist/anti-environmental administration proves that. If the people truly were Awake & Aware™, then they would not have voted for Donald Trump in 2016, but for a candidate from outside of the bipartisan system ─ someone like Jill Stein for instance. But even then, several US states do not even allow voting for an independent candidate. So the system is self-reinforcing.

    If any real change is to come, then it'll have to come from the grassroots, not from within the political system, because said change would by definition have to include a rejection of the bipartisan hegemony and the political establishment. Marianne has all the right qualities, but she'll never see them come to fruition as long as she stays within the system.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  7. #1474
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Will contemplate this your post as feel there be more for me to assimilate still, do feel Trump was a pretty big breach already and maybe allows the likes of MW space, Trump again being taken out of context does not surprise me though.

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  9. #1475
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Oh great, another thread about Donald Trump ─ like there weren't enough of them yet, right?








    I am merging this thread with the "Trump: Illusion, Mist & Bought?" thread.
    Unsure how to get this vid here but will try

    https://www.facebook.com/thehodgetwi...8960494849235/

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  11. #1476
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    Will contemplate this your post as feel there be more for me to assimilate still, do feel Trump was a pretty big breach already [...]
    No, see, that's where you're wrong. Donald Trump was not a breach ─ he only looked like he was, because he did not have a background in politics. But in terms of his agenda and his alignment, he represents the hard-right that was already present in the USA in the form of the Tea Party and the Ku Klux Clan, and he received corporate and even criminal sponsorship during his 2016 campaign. (Let's leave the Russians out of it for now, as there is not enough hard evidence (yet).)

    And Trump definitely still serves the status quo ─ America is the greatest country in the world, yadda yadda, America must conquer other nations spread democracy, more taxpayer money has to be donated to the corporations under the guise of stimulating employment, the military-industrial complex must be reinforced, and so on. There's nothing new under the sun, except in how fanatic and at the same time also how incompetent he is. Donald Trump is so incompetent and so white-supremacist that he makes even George W. Bush look like a good president.

    Marianne Williamson on the other hand is an entirely different kind of person. She is opposed to imperialism and war, she is opposed to inequality, she is opposed to nationalism and knee-jerk politics, she pleads for a greater spiritual awareness, and she seeks to reform the education system ─ which up until now has been a major instrument for the indoctrination with the insular US-centric vantage and American Exceptionalism. She's also altruistic, she does not have any corporations behind her, and she's too determined and idealistic to allow herself to be manipulated or pushed around. She's honest and she's sincere to the bone. That's about as far removed from the status quo as any presidential candidate can ever be, and especially so Donald Trump.

    But ultimately, it's going to come down to the voter, and if you compare the few who have enough of a spiritual awareness to the many who are trapped in ─ if not enjoying ─ the knee-jerk nationalism and populist fascism of Donald Trump, then it is more than clear that Marianne will never get a fair shot at the White House. The Democrats will nominate Joe Biden instead, or perhaps Bernie Sanders. Hell, they'll even support Hillary Clinton if she were to decide to make a comeback ─ and she just might want to.

    The system is corrupt, and it will therefore by definition only support corrupted or corruptible presidential candidates. Marianne Williamson does not fit that description.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  13. #1477
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    Unsure how to get this vid here but will try

    https://www.facebook.com/thehodgetwi...8960494849235/
    Here, let me do it for you. (You have to use only the numerical string of the link, and use the Facebook icon in the toolbar instead of the regular video icon. )


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  15. #1478
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Never heard of the twins till now, millions of hits for vid, social media very powerful and hard for weres n negs to control still imo, thanks for that Aragorn.

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  17. #1479
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Trump is helping to unite Democrats. The new members and younger progressives are seen as being at odds with Pelosi and the 'establishment' Democrats.

    Trump just united them, big time. He couldn't have done a better job at uniting and energizing Democrats if he tried.

    His gamble is that his open intolerance will be stronger than the reaction from the rest of the country.

    His only hope to win is to energize his base as much as possible. In the olden days, the negativity would cause low voter turnout. This is what the Republicans need to win. It's why they gerrymander and squelch voting access. They will lose big time if they fight fair.

    The problem now is, because Trump has changed the dynamic so much, he can't rely on that. He is energizing the opposition as well. People who have never voted will be coming out to vote.

    Despite the media lies about the 2018 election, it was indeed a massive wave and Trump may be in for another one.

    He will do his best to undermine the system and call the whole thing fake. It's his only hope.

    He's already said he may not respect election results.

    Considering the slathering desire of some for Civil War, he may just decide to try to incite it.

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  19. #1480
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    These Blue-eyed twins are paid by Russians...either that or they are satirists. Read my post by the professor in Chaos and the Anti-Thread. What is obvious by the way these guys express themselves is a strong indicator that they don't know how to read. This is an example of self-deprecating n*gger humor. The kind that white nationalists just love.
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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  21. #1481
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Trump is helping to unite Democrats. The new members and younger progressives are seen as being at odds with Pelosi and the 'establishment' Democrats.

    Trump just united them, big time. He couldn't have done a better job at uniting and energizing Democrats if he tried.
    I wouldn't go counting those chickens quite yet. Trump's base will follow him over the cliff while mindlessly waving the flag chanting "USA! USA! USA!", while the brewing civil war inside the democratic party is a very real thing, there's the very very real possibility of a *very* nasty divorce. From every indication I see the younger progressives are not out for the sole reason to oust Trump, they are out to take over the party with true, fundamental transformation. Like Obama promised but never did which they haven't forgotten either...

    Trump's 40% base is secure no matter what, the dems not so much.

    If it comes down to a forced vote between Trump, and the usual bought and paid for establishment democrat like the Bidens, Harris, etc., a sizeable chunk of the die hard young progressives is going to sit on the bench and not vote at all. If the whole shit house goes up in flames because that split vote gave Captain Chaos another four years then so be it. Maybe the whole democratic party will implode and they'll be there to build a whole new party from the ground up and make another run at their vision next time.

    The young progressives are the future and they know it, they can taste it. They already knew what Trump was about, but they've got bigger fish to fry than simply defeating him, only to have the same old shit keep happening just under a different banner, and in a more more polite manner. They're not content to squib their vote on republican light.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  23. #1482
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    This is from 50 years ago. Could have been from this week.

    One of the most ignorant and hateful statements that a person can make is “If you don’t like it here, why don’t you leave?”

    That attitude is the main reason America was founded, in all its hope and energy and goodness. The people who came here, to make a better land than had ever been seen before by the common people, had been rebuffed and rejected by their neighbors in the Old World.

    They didn’t like conditions where they lived, and wanted to improve them. If they had been allowed and encouraged to, the Old World would have had a happier history, instead of the miserable tribulations that turned the eyes of the people to America as their last, best hope.

    Now we find that many Americans — smug and fat and entrenched in their affluent inertia — are saying the same ugly thing to their neighbors: “If you don’t like it here, why don’t you leave?” — chicago.suntimes.com/...
    But most people who want to change conditions do like it here: they love it here. They love it so much they cannot stand to see it suffer from its imperfections, and want it to live up to its ideals. It is the people who placidly accept the corruptions and perversions and inequities in our society who do not love America; they love their status, security and special privilege.

    Those who want to leave have a right to, but those who want to stay and work for what they consider a better society must be protected in that right — for without it, our nation would sink into stagnation, and the process of change would harden into repression by those who benefit by keeping things just as they are.
    If all the settlers who came here, with high hopes for a new and finer social order, had been compelled to “go back where they came from,” we would have had no United States of America. This country was born out of dissatisfaction with the old scheme of things, and grew on the blood and dedication of men who were not afraid to speak and work for fundamental changes in the whole political and social structure.

    Somebody who truly didn’t like what America stands for ought to be invited to leave; but there is a vast difference between such a person and those who dislike what we have allowed ourselves to become, through greed and prejudice and provincial indifference to the great problems we now face. No community can afford to lose these good “agitators.”
    Trump ain't bringin' anything new, folks. He's playing very old politics.

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  25. #1483
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Good post, DT...Love it or Leave it...that's bullsh*t...but many have chosen to leave it in the face of disgusting inertia. That takes courage as well, but I'm not sure it is a victory.

    Fred, even among the older generations there are more than a few 'enlightened' and 'awake' individuals. My hope this time, as well as, last time, there are enough of them to actually make the difference. I think everyone knows what Trump represents at this point. We will most assuredly find out where we are as 'human beings' on this round.
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    Fred, even among the older generations there are more than a few 'enlightened' and 'awake' individuals. My hope this time, as well as, last time, there are enough of them to actually make the difference. I think everyone knows what Trump represents at this point. We will most assuredly find out where we are as 'human beings' on this round.
    We shall see. If it winds up being Trump vs. *any* of the dems other than 2 or 3 of them, nothing changes except maybe the hood ornament on the 2020 version of the "Chevrolet Empire".


    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    I'll put it even stronger: it is my firm belief that the US Democrats would rather allow Bernie Sanders to run against Donald Trump than that they would support Marianne Williamson, because The Powers That Be™ know that Sanders can be manipulated and pushed around ─ as became evident when they got him to step aside in favor of Hillary Clinton back in 2016.
    If push came to shove, yes, I think you have a good read on that. Here's the wild card though, if he won the nomination I'll bet you he would pick his highly respected buddy Tulsi Gabbard as his running mate, and that would be a combination that would make even me re-register to vote after 10 years out of the game. I think she would be his foreign policy champion, and also lend him the added cojones he's been seen lacking from time to time.

    I still don't think anything of real substance would change if they won, but it would be fascinating to follow how it's done under such circumstances.

    I would love to be proven dead wrong.


    To Edit: The more I see of Marianne Williamson, the more she impresses me and that's not easy to do.
    Last edited by Fred Steeves, 21st July 2019 at 22:34. Reason: Addition/Clarification
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  29. #1485
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Nothing is going to change for the foreseeable future...the only thing we can ask from politicians is to 'just talk about it'. Ultimately, the voters need to understand what the f*ck is going on and not through the lens of propaganda. Out of respect for your argument Fred, I will refrain from stating the obvious about what entity is the "Master of Propaganda". What is dangerous is to fall for those that make promises...promises will not be delivered. The only thing that can be delivered is a whack to the head of social consciousness.
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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