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Thread: Trump: Illusion, Mist and Bought?

  1. #91
    Senior Member jimmer's Avatar
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    have a peek at the revolution...

    Last edited by jimmer, 20th March 2016 at 00:01.
    Life is an attitude.

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    Senior Member lift the veil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by bsbray View Post
    Trump actually won the Hispanic vote in Nevada, 44% to Marco Rubio's 29%, while Rubio is of Cuban ancestry, so not even the Hispanics there were falling for the MSM rhetoric that wanting to enforce border security is racist.
    One needs to look at the actual data from the Nevada Caucuses, to get the REAL picture behind how many Latinos voted for Trump.

    If you look at item number 4 below regarding the Nevada caucuses, the data shows:

    Latinos in the Democratic caucus = 16,500
    Latinos in the Republican caucus = 6,000

    Trump won 2600 of the 6000 REPUBLICAN Latino votes = 43.33%

    But of the TOTAL number of Latino votes (16,500+ 6,000 = 22,500), the Donald's 2,600 votes (of 22,500) is only 11.55% of TOTAL Latino voters from the caucuses.



    http://www.latinodecisions.com/blog/...ics-in-nevada/

    No Trump – you are not “number one with Hispanics” in Nevada

    by David Damore, Latino Decisions Senior Analyst on 02/24/2016
    Donald Trump won the Republican Nevada caucuses and in his victory speech Tuesday night he bragged about winning “the Hispanics” as he likes to say. He told his crowd of supporters “And you know what I’m really happy about? Number 1 with Hispanics!” However there are five very important points that have gotten lost in the media reporting of the Nevada entrance polls.

    1. We are only talking about the very small percent of Nevada Latinos who are Republican today. An overwhelming majority of Nevada Latinos are Democrats. In a recent poll asking about party identification, 55% of Latinos said they were Democrats, 29% said Independents and just 16% said they were Republicans. Assuming the entrance poll is correct (a very big assumption) and Trump won 44% of Latino Republicans, that means he was supported by about 7% of Latinos in Nevada (44% of 16 = 7.04). What that mean is that most likely, 93% of Latinos in Nevada did not vote for Trump.



    2. The entrance poll has a very, very small sample size of Latino Republicans, perhaps only 130, which means that even if everything else is perfect in its methodology, it carries a +/- 8.5% points on the Latino sample. Further, the Nevada entrance polls are not designed to get accurate subgroup vote share estimates, but rather report on statewide numbers, so their design is not trying to capture a representative sample of Latino Republicans, which adds some amount of unknown bias, beyond the +/- 8.5%

    3. Latinos in Nevada have been consistently moving away from the Republican party. Recall that in the 2010 general election when Republican Sharon Angle embraced an anti-immigrant platform for her campaign she won only 8% of the Latino vote, to 90% for Harry Reid. In a detailed analysis of the demographics and political profile of Latinos in Nevada Brookings Mountain West summed it up this way:

    In sum, based upon analysis of survey data from the 2012 election it appears that within Nevada’s Latino community there are few if any sub‐populations where the Republican Party has much traction. Much of the Republican Party’s struggles with Latino voters in Nevada stems from the inconsistency between the GOP’s policy agenda and the preferences of most Latino voters in the state and the perceived insensitivity of the 2012 Republican presidential nominee, Mitt Romney, towards the state’s Latino community.
    4. Just looking at Latino participation in the Democratic and Republican caucuses, there were an estimated 16,500 Latinos who participated in the Democratic caucus and cast a Democratic ballot. On the Republican side it was about 6,000 and Trump came away with an estimated 2,600 Latino votes, or only 11% of all Latinos participants in the caucuses.

    5. In a poll of Latino voters in general election battleground states (which included Nevada), impreMedia and Latino Decisions found that 80% of Latino voters said Trump’s statements about Mexicans and immigrants gave them a less favorable opinion of the GOP overall. This has been corroborated by Gallup’s monthly tracker and NBC polling, and reported by CNN in their headline “Latinos see Donald Trump as hurting GOP brand“and most recently by Political Science professor Lynn Vavreck writing for the New York Times Upshot who called him “damager-in-chief to the party reputation” among Latinos.

    Sorry Donald, you are not #1 with Hispanics in Nevada.
    As item number 5 points out, a recent poll of Latino voters showed 80% said that Trump's statements about Mexicans gave them a less favorable opinion of the GOP overall.

    So maybe they do find his comments racist, as I would contend.
    Last edited by lift the veil, 20th March 2016 at 15:53.

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    Senior Member lift the veil's Avatar
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    Here is more insight into how Latino voters feel about Trump. Is it possible they have a very negative view of him because of his racially charged rhetoric? I think the answer is, YES. Maybe this is why only 11% of Latinos voted for Trump in the Nevada Caucus as pointed out in the above post. This 11% is ~ to the 15% favorability seen below.

    http://www.latinodecisions.com/blog/...states-survey/
    impreMedia/Latino Decisions Battleground States Survey

    by Latino Decisions on 11/09/2015
    Today impreMedia and Latino Decisions released a new poll of Latino voters in battleground states. The survey of 424 registered Latino voters measures candidate favorability and issue priorities, full results and methodology are posted HERE.



    Here is the methodology behind the graphs:

    Last edited by lift the veil, 20th March 2016 at 17:40.

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    Quote Originally posted by lift the veil View Post
    Trump won 2600 of the 6000 REPUBLICAN Latino votes = 43.33%

    But of the TOTAL number of Latino votes (16,500+ 6,000 = 22,500), the Donald's 2,600 votes (of 22,500) is only 11.55% of TOTAL Latino voters from the caucuses.
    You expected those already registered as Democrats to vote for Trump in the Republican caucus? Of course not. Of course we are only talking about those already registered as Republicans, so I don't see what your point is, unless it is that most Latinos are Democrats because Republicans are all racist, which would be equally fallacious. And of those who did vote in the Republican caucus, Trump received more of the Latino vote than any other candidate. If he was so obviously racist against Latinos why would that be the case?

    I really hope that you are not still buying into the whole Republican/Democrat paradigm. You said you've read Cathy O'Brien. What party do you think the CIA votes for? Just Republicans? I'm really trying to wrap my mind around where you are coming from with all of this stuff, because all the politics you see on TV or in MSM is a circus show designed to distract and entertain the masses who are ignorant of what is going on behind the scenes. If you want to talk about Trump then we should start with these issues, because if you still buy into the Republican/Democrat false dichotomy then the whole view of what is happening right now is going to be distorted.

    Can you please tell me if you have any thoughts on the following?

    False Dichotomy: The Two-Party Political Farce

    Politically active people in America, with the help of the corporate media, believe the nation is governed by a two-party political system. Upon closer inspection it’s more likely that special interest groups own both parties and use the false dichotomy to effectively push their agenda.

    Every story has a central duality. In Star Wars it’s the rebels and the lights side against the empire and the dark side. There’s no middle ground, just a clear-cut picture of two opposing forces struggling for control of the galaxy. The same dualistic process plays out in the commercials that break up your favorite primetime sitcom; whether it’s Pepsi vs. Coke or Burger King vs. McDonalds, the core theme of these guys or those guys prevails. Are things really this simplistic in our world?

    On the American political stage we find Democrats and Republicans, fighting fiercely for control of the nation’s policies and ultimate direction. Few issues create the passion evoked by a conversation about two-party politics. Water coolers, bars, family picnics, even church sewing circles, are lit up with the sparks that fly from this supercharged dichotomy.

    Democrats are “liberal”, or on the left. Republicans are “conservative”, or on the right. It’s every bit as straightforward as Luke Skywalker on one side and Darth Vader on the other, as plain to see as Pepsi over here, Coke over there.

    Or is it?

    Democrats want to end the wars, elevate the poor to a higher standard of living, promote equal rights, and save the environment. At least that’s what they claim. According to Republicans, however, the Democratic Party is just a front for a Communist takeover, the destruction of big business, and the creation of a total welfare state that caters to drug addicts and same-sex partners.

    The Republican Party believes in a strong national defense, capitalism, family values, and Jesus. So they say. Democrats, however, are pretty sure the Republicans want to start World War III, herd all the minorities into work camps, create a fascist super state, and forcefully convert the whole country to Christianity.

    If you live in a rural area and support a citizen’s right to carry guns to church, you’re most likely a fervent Republican. If your home is in the suburbs of a major city and you constantly browbeat your co-workers for not driving a hybrid, it’s safe to assume you’re a Democrat.

    You’re one or the other, unless you’re a bad American who either doesn’t vote, or who supports one of those “loony bin” political groups. There’s no way around it, right?

    This is the vivid picture painted by talk radio hosts across the land. Is it a realistic depiction of the American political climate?

    Yes and no. It’s pretty accurate in terms of portraying the public’s deeply polarized, generally uninformed ideology, but it’s anything but a genuine representation of what our political leadership is actually doing.

    In fact, once you get past the campaign speeches and canned statements from the political press secretaries, this left-right, one-or-the-other format is nowhere to be seen. When you examine what political officers in America achieve during their time in office (as opposed to what they promise before the election), an entirely different picture begins to unfold.

    Only a little research will make abundantly clear the FACT that both Democrats and Republicans, once in power, pretty much push the same agenda! It’s right there in plain sight really, but few people have the awareness to catch it.

    Consider this: It’s pretty common for the Federal Reserve Chairman (the guy who heads up the private company that prints and controls our monetary system) to serve through multiple administrations. During this time the chairman runs the country’s economy under both Democrat and Republican leaders. Bush (on the right) and Clinton (on the left) both had Greenspan atop the Fed. Bush (Jr.) and Obama both kept Bernanke in this position. Does it strike you as odd that two political parties, each claiming to vehemently oppose the other, apparently see eye-to-eye on who should have total power over the nation’s money supply and monetary policy?

    Who benefits from the debt created by the Federal Reserve? Certainly not the taxpayers who are forced to pay the bill! The political and social elite are empowered to literally create money out of thin air and use it on any corporate project or government program the like.

    Neither a Democratic nor Republican President has made any meaningful effort to influence U.S. economic processes differently from their alleged opposition. Raised taxes, massively deepened debt, insane military spending, and full-scale de-industrialization have been standard policy throughout the terms of Bush Sr., Clinton, Bush Jr. and Obama.

    Devoted Dems and Reps will no doubt howl in rage at this suggestion, pointing to this or that campaign promise as proof that their candidate opposed one or the other above action. Again, we must look at courses of action rather than rhetoric.

    Did you know, for instance, that George H. W. Bush signed NAFTA as one of his final acts in office? Most Americans attribute this horrendous treaty to Clinton. The truth is, Bush Sr. initiated the process, and then Clinton had the job of getting it ratified.

    Both parties worked to push the NAFTA agenda, which has literally gutted the manufacturing industry of this country. Does this seem bizarre to you, given the night-and-day difference ascribed to the two parties?

    Does NAFTA help the middle class by demolishing industry that has supported millions of workers for many generations? Or does it make life bigger and better for company execs and stockholders of mega corporations by allowing them to stop paying professional workers in the states and open sweatshops in Mexico? This is a no-brainer.

    The workings of the Federal Reserve and impact of NAFTA are but two examples, out of many. If you’re paying attention, it’s an easy matter to spot a dozen ways in which the two-party leadership increases their wealth & power, with no regard for what might benefit the voters who put them in office.

    Sadly, this article only scratches the surface of how both the left and the right act in unison toward a larger plan of action. Republicans charm the conservative population with their talk of “family” and a “strong military”. Democrats woo the liberal population with promises of better social programs and more benefits for minorities. Behind the talk, however, both parties diligently fleece the public while creating massive wealth, influence, and power for the ruling class.
    http://guidetowinningelections.com/f...litical-farce/


    I just want to make sure we're starting on the same page here. Do you have any thoughts on anything in that text I just pasted above?
    Last edited by bsbray, 20th March 2016 at 19:26.

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  6. #95
    Senior Member lift the veil's Avatar
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    You were the one that said Trump won 44 % if the Latino vote in Nevada. All I did was point out that it was 44% of the Republican vote which equaled 11% of the overall Latino vote in Nevada.

    I then went on to point out that Latinos have a very negative view of Trump, backed up with data from a poll of Latino voters. Now why they have a negative view, only they know. I am merely speculating that his rhetoric is viewed as racist by them. The 15% favorablilty from the poll pretty much falls in line with the dismal 11% of the total Latino vote that he won from Nevada.

    This has nothing to do with Democrat or Republican. It has to do with numbers and how the Latino electorate vote. Their voting may be reflective of how they feel about the candidate. Their feelings may have to do with that candidate's campaign rhetoric.
    Last edited by lift the veil, 20th March 2016 at 20:20.

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    Senior Member lift the veil's Avatar
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    Trumps racially charged rhetoric is motivating legal immigrants to become citizens so they can vote against him. Maybe they see his rhetoric as being racist???

    The Latino's quoted below say:


    “I want to vote so Donald Trump won’t win,” said Ms. Villegas,

    "He doesn't like us," said Ms. Villegas,

    “A lot of people are opening their eyes because of all the negative stuff Donald Trump has brought,” said Ms. Villegas’s husband, Miguel Garfío,

    “Donald Trump never! Never!” said Minerva Guerrero Salazar... “He has no conscience when he speaks of Latinos. And he is so rude. I don’t know what kind of education his mother gave him.”

    “He gave us that extra push we needed to get ready to vote, to prove to people who see us negatively they are wrong,” said Mary Victorio.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/08/us...-him.html?_r=0


    More Latinos Seek Citizenship to Vote Against Trump

    By JULIA PRESTON MARCH 7, 2016

    DENVER — Donald J. Trump’s harsh campaign language against Mexican immigrants has helped him win a substantial delegate lead in the Republican primaries, but it is also mobilizing a different set of likely voters — six in the family of Hortensia Villegas alone.

    A legal immigrant from Mexico, Ms. Villegas is a mother of two who has been living in the United States for nearly a decade but never felt compelled to become a citizen. But as Mr. Trump has surged toward the Republican nomination, Ms. Villegas — along with her sister, her parents and her husband’s parents — has joined a rush by many Latino immigrants to naturalize in time to vote in November.

    “I want to vote so Donald Trump won’t win,” said Ms. Villegas, 32, one of several hundred legal residents, mostly Mexicans, who crowded one recent Saturday into a Denver union hall. Volunteers helped them fill out applications for citizenship, which this year are taking about five months for federal officials to approve. “He doesn’t like us,” she said.



    (Hortensia Villegas, center, with her husband, Miguel Garfío, her children, and her sister Silvia, outside a naturalization workshop in Denver. “I want to vote so Donald Trump won’t win,” said Ms. Villegas. Credit Theo Stroomer for The New York Times)

    Over all, naturalization applications increased by 11 percent in the 2015 fiscal year over the year before, and jumped 14 percent during the six months ending in January, according to federal figures. The pace is picking up by the week, advocates say, and they estimate applications could approach one million in 2016, about 200,000 more than the average in recent years.

    While naturalizations generally rise during presidential election years, Mr. Trump provided an extra boost this year. He began his campaign in June describing Mexicans as drug-traffickers and rapists. His pledge to build a border wall and make Mexico pay for it has been a regular applause line. He has vowed to create a deportation force to expel the estimated 11 million immigrants here illegally, evoking mass roundups of the 1950s.

    Among 8.8 million legal residents eligible to naturalize, about 2.7 million are Mexicans, the largest national group, federal figures show. But after decades of low naturalization rates, only 36 percent of eligible Mexicans have become citizens, while 68 percent of all other immigrants have done so, according to the Pew Research Center.



    (The naturalization workshop drew a large crowd on Feb. 27, as immigrants rushed to naturalize in time to vote in November. Credit Theo Stroomer for The New York Times)

    “A lot of people are opening their eyes because of all the negative stuff Donald Trump has brought,” said Ms. Villegas’s husband, Miguel Garfío, 30, who was born and raised in Colorado and came to the workshop here to help his wife and other family members become citizens. His parents came from Mexico in the 1980s and worked hard all their lives, he said, helping him create a construction company in Denver that now employs 18 people. Contrary to Mr. Trump’s depiction, he said, none of his relatives have criminal records.

    This year immigrants seeking to become citizens can find extra help from nonprofit groups and even from the White House. Last September, President Obama opened a national campaign to galvanize legal residents to take the step. They can now pay the fee, $680, with a credit card, and practice the civics test online. They can get applications at “citizenship corners” in public libraries in many states.

    The White House recruited Fernando Valenzuela, the legendary Mexican-born pitcher who naturalized only last year, and José Andrés, the Spanish-American chef, to make encouraging advertisements and to turn up at swearing-in ceremonies. On Presidents’ Day, administration officials swore in more than 20,000 new citizens. On Wednesday the administration announced $10 million in grants to groups guiding immigrants through the process.

    A majority of Latinos are Democrats, and some Republicans accuse the White House of leading a thinly veiled effort to expand the ranks of the president’s party. But administration officials argue the campaign is nonpartisan, noting that immigrants who become citizens improve their incomes and chances for homeownership.

    “I certainly don’t care what party they register with; I just want them to become citizens,” said Leon Rodriguez, director of United States Citizenship and Immigration Services, the federal agency in charge of naturalizations.

    Aside from Colorado, naturalization drives are taking place in Nevada and Florida, states likely to be fiercely contested in November where Latino voters could provide a crucial margin. One nonprofit group, the New Americans Campaign, plans to complete 1,500 applications at a session in the Marlins Park baseball stadium in Miami on March 19.

    Among the groups the White House is supporting are immigrant rights organizations and labor unions, which say their goal in holding dozens of citizenship workshops this spring is to build immigrant voting power. They want to bolster support for legislation creating a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants, which Mr. Obama has long promised but has never been able to push through Congress. Recently naturalized immigrants, after all the effort they must make, are more likely to vote than longtime citizens.

    “People who are eligible are really feeling the urgency to get out there,” said Tara Raghuveer, deputy director of the National Partnership for New Americans, a coalition that helped put on the workshop in Denver. “They are worried by the prospect that someone who is running for president has said hateful things.”

    Mr. Trump says he is confident Latinos will support him, because he has employed many thousands of them over the years. “I’m just telling you that I will do really well with Hispanics,” he said in the Republican debate in Houston on Feb. 26.

    But in a poll of Latino voters on Feb. 25 by The Washington Post and Univision, the Spanish language television network, 80 percent had an unfavorable view of Mr. Trump, including 72 percent with a very unfavorable view, far more than for other Republican candidates.

    Hope Hicks, a spokeswoman for the Trump campaign, said, “No one will benefit more from Mr. Trump’s pro-worker immigration reforms than the millions of immigrants who already call America home.” She said his proposals include “limiting the ability of corporations to replace them with new, lower-wage workers brought in from abroad.” Polls show Hispanic workers favor raising wages instead of importing foreigners, Ms. Hicks said, adding, “That is the core moral principle that will guide immigration policy in a Trump administration.”

    Many Mexicans have been content to live in the United States with their resident green cards. The naturalization fee is high, and Mexicans often underestimate their English and worry they will fail the test, said Manuel Pastor, a sociology professor at the University of Southern California who studies citizenship. Many Mexicans have family members who are undocumented, and think twice before engaging with the government, he said.

    Yet many Mexicans joined a naturalization rush in 2007, when the threat of a fee increase right before the 2008 election prompted more than 1.3 million immigrants to apply. This year, no such increase looms. There is no hard deadline for immigrants hoping to vote in November, but with the agency currently approving naturalizations in about five months, immigrant groups are pressing to get applications in before May 1 to allow new citizens time to register to vote.

    At the Denver workshop, many aspiring voters agreed on why they are naturalizing this year.

    “Donald Trump never! Never!” said Minerva Guerrero Salazar, 40, who has been working for a uniform rental company since moving here from Mexico in 2002. “He has no conscience when he speaks of Latinos. And he is so rude. I don’t know what kind of education his mother gave him.”


    Several women said they hoped to vote for Hillary Clinton, the Democratic front-runner.

    At least one man liked a Republican. Dr. Oscar Argüello Rudín, 71, a Costa Rican who has been a resident since 1971 and recently retired as chief of surgery at a hospital in Colorado Springs, favored Gov. John Kasich of Ohio.

    Mary Victorio, 22, a Mexican-born student at the University of Colorado Denver, said she would vote Democratic but was grateful in one way to Mr. Trump. “He gave us that extra push we needed to get ready to vote, to prove to people who see us negatively they are wrong,” she said.
    Last edited by lift the veil, 20th March 2016 at 20:10.

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    yes, it seems that those who have had a free ride are afraid of Trump.
    problem for them is, many more have paid for this free ride and are fed up with it.

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    Senior Member lift the veil's Avatar
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    What a way to generalize a whole population of people.

    One of the people quoted above, said their parents came from Mexico in the 1980s and worked hard all their lives, and help him create a construction company in Denver that now employs 18 people.

    Another woman has been working for a uniform rental company since moving here from Mexico in 2002.

    So how are they having a free ride? They are working, and one is a job creator.
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    they came to the states illegally and are afraid, after getting a pass for years, that they are in jeopardy –
    that the law will finally be enforced.

    that said, Trump has said repeatedly what he wants is a reset, so that all americans are legal citizens.

    those who need to go, can reapply to seek legal citizenship.

    now, that's not so radical, is it?

    the real problem, the real travesty is that illegal immigration has been allowed to get so out-of-whack.

    since radical terrorism poses a big threat to our lives, welfare and freedom, we need to know who is who and
    that they are real, loyal americans and not those who mean us harm.
    currently, it's impossible to tell who's who.
    and that is a big problem, if not corrected.

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    Quote Originally posted by jimmer View Post
    they came to the states illegally and are afraid, after getting a pass for years, that they are in jeopardy –
    that the law will finally be enforced.

    that said, Trump has said repeatedly what he wants is a reset, so that all americans are legal citizens.
    .
    The New York Times article was regarding LEGAL immigrants who were attending naturalization workshops to become citizens.

    Where do you get they were illegals?

    As far as the poll showing 71% of Latinos that have an unfavorable view of Trump, I doubt it is because they are ALL illegals, having a "free ride," who are afraid of Trump.


    Pew research showed that there were 5.6 million Mexican unauthorized immigrants living in the U.S in 2014. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...on-in-the-u-s/

    The US census bureau showed there were 55 million Hispanics in the US as of July 1, 2014. https://www.census.gov/newsroom/fact...cb15-ff18.html

    Using these numbers ~ 10% of the Hispanic population was Mexican unauthorized immigrants in 2014.

    Assuming that these 10% would be "afraid of Trump due to them being illegals," does not explain why much, much more, 71% of the Latino population, has an unfavorable view of Trump.

    Maybe instead, the 71% of Latinos have an unfavorable view of Trump due to his highly charged racial rhetoric.
    Last edited by lift the veil, 21st March 2016 at 00:11.

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    Quote Originally posted by lift the veil View Post
    You were the one that said Trump won 44 % if the Latino vote in Nevada. All I did was point out that it was 44% of the Republican vote which equaled 11% of the overall Latino vote in Nevada.
    My point, that you have conveniently neglected to mention, was that Trump received more of the Latino vote than any other Republican candidate. Which is true. And then I ask, if he is so damn racist, why should that be the case?

    This has nothing to do with Democrat or Republican. It has to do with numbers and how the Latino electorate vote. Their voting may be reflective of how they feel about the candidate. Their feelings may have to do with that candidate's campaign rhetoric.
    I have a feeling that for you, this whole conversation does have something to do with Democrat and Republican. Can you at least tell me your thoughts about the article I posted above, in regards to the establishment Republicans and Democrats actually voting together for the same corrupt stuff? By all means correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the feeling that you still have at least one foot in the world where the two political parties are like the good guys and bad guys, and you just pick a side and antagonize the hell out of the other side and it makes you a good and informed citizen. Are you not still lending way too much credibility to this false political dichotomy?

    Quote Originally posted by lift the veil View Post
    Trumps racially charged rhetoric is motivating legal immigrants to become citizens so they can vote against him. Maybe they see his rhetoric as being racist???
    You don't have to be a legal citizen to vote in national elections anymore. Just move to California and get a driver's license. You could be from Mexico or Germany or Mongolia or Syria or anywhere. A driver's license is all they check for. Hooray for the globalists. Now if we can just do away with borders completely and make the whole world one big fascist state.

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    I guess those 11% of Latinos don't think he was being racist toward them. The Cuban population historically votes Republican. As Trump is talking about Mexican immigrants, they probably don't think he is talking smack about them. They think Trump is talking about those "other immigrants." They see themselves as not being part of the (illegal Hispanic immigrant) problem. It's those "others" that are the problem. And yes, I realize that Rubio and Cruz are of Cuban descent. So they essentially split the Republican vote 3 ways. Big deal.


    I can use the icon too.
    Last edited by lift the veil, 21st March 2016 at 02:40.

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    I could care less about the false political dichotomy. I understand exactly what it means. i don't have to pick either side. And I am not doing so to antagonize anyone.

    I know who Hillary is. What blows my mind is that people can't see who Trump is.

    I am simply trying to give insights into who Trump is:
    Trump "University", http://jandeane81.com/threads/8857-T...#post841947436 http://jandeane81.com/threads/8857-T...#post841947441
    settlement on failed real estate deal http://jandeane81.com/threads/8857-T...#post841947458
    lawsuit regarding his use of illegal immigrant workers http://jandeane81.com/threads/8857-T...#post841947428

    His flip-flops show him going from being a "democrat" a few years ago to now being a "republican," since he decided to run for President. He is simply pandering for votes. I think this demonstrates that he is NOT saying what he believes and he is just as phony as the rest of the politicians. http://jandeane81.com/threads/8857-T...#post841947489 http://jandeane81.com/threads/8857-T...#post841947490

    His many inaccurate statements, exaggerations and flat out falsehoods http://jandeane81.com/threads/8857-T...#post841947447 http://jandeane81.com/threads/8857-T...#post841947454
    http://jandeane81.com/threads/8857-T...#post841947465

    I am pointing out how certain voting blocks are voting, which may demonstrate that their non-votes for him are based upon his racially charged rhetoric, as can be seen in the polling of unfavorability ratings. http://jandeane81.com/threads/8857-T...#post841947541 http://jandeane81.com/threads/8857-T...#post841947546 http://jandeane81.com/threads/8857-T...#post841947554
    Last edited by lift the veil, 21st March 2016 at 03:00.

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    Quote Originally posted by lift the veil View Post
    So they essentially split the Republican vote 3 ways. Big deal.
    You can't split 100% into 44% three times. 44% is closer to half of the vote than one-third. And there were actually four people on the ballot, not three. It was neither an even three-way nor especially a four-way split.

    I can use the icon too.
    Congratulations.

    Quote Originally posted by lift the veil View Post
    I could care less about the false political dichotomy. I understand exactly what it means. i don't have to pick either side. And I am not doing so to antagonize anyone.

    I know who Hillary is.
    Someone you'd vote for eh? The reason I brought up the article about, is because there is obviously a political establishment already well-entrenched that includes members of both parties and when it comes to globalist and fascist laws both parties vote to pass them.

    If and when we are both on the same page there, then we can look at who Trump is: someone who has both sides of the political establishment enraged, including his own party. Anyone who is inspiring the wrath of the real fascists is somebody to take a closer look at. And I have. And I think a power structure outside of the traditional political cabal is backing him. And I think that that is the Pentagon. But as long as the conversation remains fixated on mainstream media political talking points, you'll never hear anything about any of that.

    I am simply trying to give insights into who Trump is (Trump "University", settlements on failed real estate deals, lawsuits regarding his use of illegal immigrant workers).
    Which is worse: those three things you just mentioned, or Hillary being responsible for the deaths of embassy officials in Libya? And then covering up all of her connections to it, including deleting some admitted 30,000 emails that she, against State Department guidelines (and contrary to instructions she gave to her own staff), kept on a server in her personal residence? I don't think there's really much of a comparison there.

    How about Hillary saying that those 30,000 emails that she deleted in regards to Libya, before turning over her server to investigators, included a lot of personal correspondence with her husband, and then Bill saying elsewhere on TV that he doesn't use emails and that he's only sent two emails in his life and that they weren't to Hillary?

    How about Hillary using the Clinton Foundation to take money from contractors that she then gave favors to, abusing her position as Secretary of State?

    How about Hillary Clinton helping Bill ramrod NAFTA down America's throat, sucking an enormous amount of jobs and manufacturing facilities overseas, and now lying about it and saying she was always against NAFTA?

    Maybe we should make a thread about Hillary so you can talk about a real criminal, a career politician.

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  22. #105
    Senior Member lift the veil's Avatar
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    I said I know who Hillary is. I have a hard time understanding how people don't see who Trump is.

    Knock your socks off if you want to educate others as to who Hillary is, by starting a thread on her. As I said, I know who she is. I have responsibly educated myself. If you want to help others, go right ahead.

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