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Thread: Trump: Illusion, Mist and Bought?

  1. #76
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    If what Trump believes changes with convenience or the tides of power we'll be in trouble. I don't see enough real integrity. It is true he's different and he's an establishment outsider. I know others who say he must have some kind of support or he'd be assassinated. We have no idea what he'd really do. Those who do....would they tell?

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    Out of all the possible candidates running, lift the veil, which one would you vote for?

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    Senior Member jimmer's Avatar
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    the haters are gonna hate and so it goes...

    is Trump going to provide us a Utopia?

    how could he.

    is he the best chance to clean-up the mess, and get the ship righted?
    I believe so.

    now, back to the hating...
    Last edited by jimmer, 18th March 2016 at 23:55.
    Life is an attitude.

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    I am very happy not to take a side, observation is enough, Trump is not an honest man and lacks integrity. Now Bernie, that's another story IMO, still watching and feeling into this guy though, the thread title has a ? Beside bought, seeing the cabal tatics around Trump so far, feel he has definitely been bought IMO. Please remember I said in first post I Feel he may have been bought, now from observation also, yes Bought.

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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    Beside bought, seeing the cabal tatics around Trump so far, feel he has definitely been bought IMO.
    As opposed to Bernie, who is a career politician? I don't know what kind of lens US news is filtered through in New Zealand, but I've seen how the US media is handling things domestically, and the media and politicians on both the left and right have been bashing Trump since before he even entered the race. Hillary Clinton is liable to be indicted for felony corruption charges because of her actions as Secretary of State (a position she was forced to resign from because of the scandals she was responsible for), and the media glosses over that like it's no big deal or any blow to her credibility to be president at all. We could scrutinize any of these candidates under a microscope and you are going to find lots of dirty, hairy things on all of them. Trump has never been accused of or investigated for anything on the level that Clinton has, yet the negative attention is focused almost exclusively on him. How do you figure that indicates that he is bought and paid for by "them"? Maybe they didn't all get the memo, and the people who own that media forgot that Trump was working for them. You think that might be it? Trump has had rougher going from the establishment than anyone I have ever seen campaign for president, and the attacks and insults keep going lower and lower. Trump has been dishing it right back and gets all the blame for it, but the media was literally mocking him before he even officially announced his bid. Those are the "cabal tactics" that I'm seeing.


    Newt Gingrich (former Speaker of the House under Bill Clinton's presidency and a leader of the republican party) was not the first to say this, but he may be the most prominent person to date to have said it:


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8LJVDM9xVc



    What he's saying there deserves some reflection.

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    I'm not sure who the haters you're referring to are, jimmer. I'm not a hater and I haven't seen direct hatred displayed here. I hope your intention is not to diminish valid concerns by labelling someone a hater.

    No doubt there are people who hate Trump. That's not what's driving the conversation here. There's genuine support, curiosity and concern.

    Thanks for all you share. I like to see the different perspectives.:interview::argue:

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Hi Bsbray, Bernie getting very little coverage hear in NZ, Trump getting similar same as US, I believe the best person and potential will win, to see humanity as a whole, evolve positively, lol anything could and can happen, it is early yet.

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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    I believe the best person and potential will win, to see humanity as a whole, evolve positively
    You're a lot more optimistic about American elections than I am. I don't think anyone in our entire history has ever won on a campaign of wanting to evolve humanity as a whole in a positive direction. That would be a pretty radically hippy statement in modern politics. And that may actually be a good thing that no one has ever campaigned on that, since if someone did, you could be sure that they'd do the exact opposite, as usual.

  10. #84
    Senior Member lift the veil's Avatar
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    http://www.democracynow.org/2016/3/1...it_happen_here

    Fascism: Can It Happen Here?

    MARCH 17, 2016

    By Amy Goodman & Denis Moynihan

    "When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross," goes a saying that is widely attributed to the first American to win the Nobel Prize for Literature, Sinclair Lewis. In 1935, Lewis wrote a novel called "It Can’t Happen Here," positing fascism’s rise in the United States. We were taught that fascism was defeated in 1945, with the surrender of Germany and Japan in World War II. Yet the long shadows of that dark era are falling on the presidential campaign trail this year, with eruptions of violence, oaths of loyalty complete with Nazi salutes and, presiding over it all, Republican front-runner Donald Trump.

    "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it," the 20th-century philosopher George Santayana wrote. He lived in Europe through both world wars, and witnessed Italian fascism firsthand. Fascism was the violent political movement founded by Benito Mussolini, who took control of Italy in 1922. Mussolini had his political opponents beaten, jailed, tortured and killed, and ruled with an iron fist until he was deposed as Italy surrendered to the Allies in 1943. He was known as "Il Duce," or "The Leader," and provided early support to the nascent Nazi movement in Germany as Adolf Hitler rose to power in the 1930s.

    Why is this relevant today? It was Donald Trump who recently retweeted one of Mussolini’s quotes: "It is better to live one day as a lion than 100 years as a sheep." When NBC confronted Trump for retweeting the fascist’s words, he replied, "Sure, it’s OK to know it’s Mussolini. Look, Mussolini was Mussolini. ... It’s a very good quote, it’s a very interesting quote."

    If only the fascist comparisons were limited to his tweets. His rallies have become hotbeds of violent confrontations, consistently fanned by Trump’s heated rhetoric from the podium. After a Black Lives Matter protester was kicked and punched at one of his rallies, Trump said, approvingly, "Maybe he should have been roughed up." At a rally in Las Vegas in February, after an anti-Trump protester disrupted the event and was escorted out, Trump bellowed: "You know what they used to do to guys like that when they were in a place like this? They’d be carried out on a stretcher, folks." He went on, "I’d like to punch him in the face, I’ll tell you that."

    Weeks later, a protester was punched in the face at a Trump rally. Rakeem Jones, a 26-year-old African-American man, was being led out of a stadium event by security guards in Fayetteville, North Carolina, when John McGraw, a white Trump supporter, sucker-punched Jones in the face. The local sheriff’s deputies then wrestled the man to the ground—not McGraw, who threw the punch, but Jones, the victim. The TV program "Inside Edition" interviewed McGraw immediately after the assault.

    "The next time we see him, we might have to kill him," McGraw said. He was arrested the next day. Trump has personally pledged to pay the legal defense bills for any rally supporter charged with violence against protesters, including those of McGraw’s. Trump also waffled when asked to disavow the support of the Ku Klux Klan and its onetime Grand Wizard, David Duke.

    "Donald Trump shows a rather alarming willingness to use fascist themes and fascist styles. The response this gets, the positive response, is alarming," said Robert Paxton on the "Democracy Now!" news hour. Considered the father of fascism studies, he is professor emeritus of social science at Columbia University.

    Paxton gave a short history of the rise of fascism in Germany: "In the election of 1924, [Hitler] did very poorly, for a marginal party. Then you have the Depression in 1929 and 1930. ... There’s this huge economic crisis with tens of millions unemployed, and there’s also a governmental deadlock. You cannot get any legislation passed." Paxton continued, "The German Weimar Republic really ceased to function as a republic in 1930, because nothing could be passed. ... So, between 1930 and 1933, President von Hindenburg ruled by decree. And the political elites are desperate to get out of that situation. And here’s Hitler, who has more votes by this time than anybody else. He’s up to 37 percent. He never gets a majority, but he’s up to 37 percent. And they want to bring that into their tent and get a solid mass backing. And so ... they bring him in."

    The partnership that the German elites forged with Hitler and his Nazi Party didn’t work out quite the way they hoped. He took power by subterfuge and by force, arrested and killed his opponents, and plunged Europe into the deadliest war in human history.

    Donald Trump is fanning the flames of bigotry and racism. He is exploiting the fears of masses of white, working-class voters who have seen their economic prospects disappear. Should the Republican nominating process end in a contested convention this summer in Cleveland, Trump told CNN Wednesday morning, "I think you’d have riots. I’m representing ... many, many millions of people."
    Last edited by lift the veil, 19th March 2016 at 18:43.

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    Senior Member jimmer's Avatar
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    lift the veil,

    I asked who you think would be the best candidate to have become president, because if you want to see how bad Trump really is, you should compare him to another candidate.

    We could start with Hillary Clinton as an example. Before even getting into how her policies would really be fascist (wars, gun bans and all), let's watch her change positions and outright lie for 13 minutes as a warm up:


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dY77j6uBHI



    We could get into a list of scandals she's already been involved with after this, starting with her being fired from a team of lawyers back in the 70's for lying, according to the head lawyer on the team. Who would have thought dishonesty as a lawyer could ever lead to a political career?

    This is the kind of candidate that has become "normal" for us, so that we get so used to seeing them that we forget or even learn to ignore the incredibly corrupt careers they have been leading in broad daylight. These are the kind of people who are in control of establishment politics, who do not want their apple cart upset, and who the American people are incredibly angry about. The problems of the system today can't be all pinned on someone who has never even held an elected office before, you know.
    Last edited by bsbray, 19th March 2016 at 19:04.

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  14. #87
    Senior Member lift the veil's Avatar
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    I will say this, I am an informed person. I have read Cathy O'Brien's book regarding her life, and WHO she has had to deal with. I believe Cathy is telling the truth.

    I refuse to choose between the lesser of two evils.
    Last edited by lift the veil, 19th March 2016 at 19:07.

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    If you make any choice at all, it has to be between the lesser of two evils. It's not like the office of president is just going to sit empty.

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  17. #89
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Thanks for vid Jimmer, could it be true I wonder, I watched a vid on Trump that had been sorta banned some time ago, on a thread by Outlander, and although old, showed a man with little integrity and downright dishonest, is he now an informed and reformed man, hard to believe But I am now open to that potential, thanks again, as we all know it is mighty difficult to change ones mind, especially when corruption is involved and with one that is part of the financial elite, especially in US.

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    I was going to ask if you'd seen that video, jimmer.

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