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Thread: Trump: Illusion, Mist and Bought?

  1. #31
    Senior Member lift the veil's Avatar
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    Leading those with a base mentality by the nose...M.O. of Hitler, is now the same M.O. used by Drumpf. Now, Drumpf is inciting violence at his rallies. What is next in the play book?

    Last edited by lift the veil, 17th March 2016 at 17:02.

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  3. #32
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    Hitler comparisons are always fun. Hitler and Trump are also both men with distinct hair styles who like wearing nice suits... Coincidence?

















    I think there are valid comparisons to be made between any of these people, but we can't be selective and pick and choose what to compare, and we need to give the full context of the comparison. For example the US built internment camps for Japanese during WW2 and rounded up all the Japanese people. That compares to what Hitler did, too, and I think it was a terrible idea. But fortunately the US did not mass exterminate anybody, and I don't think Americans would do that today, either. So I do not think there is any comparison there, and the Holocaust is of course why everyone compares Hitler to everyone else anyway. And how does Hitler expelling Jews from Germany (who were already citizens) compare to wanting to enforce immigration laws that are already in place and just not enforced? I don't think there is a great comparison there, despite how the issue may be slanted when someone comes up with a clever way of wording it.

    Maybe if having borders and laws to protect them is racist, then the debate should really be about how all nations on Earth should erase their borders completely. With no borders, it almost sounds like a one-world government. That would be an interesting conversation.

    I actually think the comparison of Trump to Hitler is ironic, considering that Bush had already been following what are called the fourteen points of fascism and the MSM never jumped onto that bandwagon. But Trump is the only candidate talking about working with Vladimir Putin and others to resolve issues diplomatically/economically instead of through military posturing overseas and warfare, and now the MSM wants to compare someone to Hitler. Doesn't make much sense to me. Hillary Clinton has been baiting for war with Iran for some time, even laughing about what could easily be start of WW3 as if it's a joke, and Cruz is campaigning on how the US must "protect" Israel (against what? higher taxes?). What Hitler is most infamously remembered for would not have been possible without starting a war.

    I missed the part where Trump is racist too. I never understood how wanting to enforce immigration laws makes someone a racist.

    “We want people to come into our country but they have to come into our country legally”

  4. #33
    Senior Member lift the veil's Avatar
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    People will use coded language to get their message across to other like minded individuals, as they can not come outright and say exactly what they mean in the public domain. So rather than use racist language, they will say instead for example that people of a certain color coming over the border are rapists, criminals and drug dealers, which is what he said about Mexicans coming across the border.

    This language appeals to many racists which is exactly why people like David Duke endorsed the Donald, and when questioned about it, Donald had a problem at first even renouncing Duke and white supremacists/the KKK, feigning ignorance of who Duke and white supremacists were.

    Trump has also used coded language regarding Muslims, saying we need to ban all Muslims from entering the country.

    The country has immigration laws and they are being enforced. The Obama administration has deported more illegals than any prior president, yet republicans stoke fear in the public with talk of Muslim terrorists and Mexican rapists/criminals.
    Last edited by lift the veil, 19th March 2016 at 12:38.

  5. #34
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    ah, hasn't it been established long ago that when hitler gets into the conversation, all is lost?

    this hitler = trump stuff is nonsense and below intelligent banter.

    here's one everyone missed:

    hitler loved dogs / trump likes hot dogs.

    outrageous!!!!!! : )

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  7. #35
    Senior Member lift the veil's Avatar
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    No, it is not nonsense.
    Last edited by lift the veil, 17th March 2016 at 19:13.

  8. #36
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    Quote Originally posted by lift the veil View Post
    People will uses coded language to get their message across to other like minded individuals, as they can not come outright and say exactly what they mean in the public domain.
    Of course, and politicians have always been like this. But now we have to try to read their minds, or is there some other way to try to figure out what they may "really" be thinking (if they even make their own decisions at all)?

    So rather than use racist language, they will say instead for example that people of a certain color coming over the border are rapists, criminals and drug dealers, which is what he said about Mexican's coming across the border.
    You're the first person that I've seen who has brought up skin color with this. I don't think Trump ever did. And Trump actually said that about illegals coming over the border, not all Mexicans, and in the case of illegals it happens to be perfectly true. I don't know why it would be surprising that people who are already breaking the law to come here are often criminals in other ways as well, especially when you consider that there has been a little problem with drug violence across the border for some years now.

    Trump actually won the Hispanic vote in Nevada, 44% to Marco Rubio's 29%, while Rubio is of Cuban ancestry, so not even the Hispanics there were falling for the MSM rhetoric that wanting to enforce border security is racist.

    This language appeals to many racists which is exactly why people like David Duke endorsed the Donald, and when questioned about it, Donald had a problem at first even renouncing Duke and white supremacist/the KKK, feigning ignorance of who Duke and white supremacists were. Duke gets exactly what Trump's coded language means, which is why he has endorsed him.
    Racists and KKK members vote in every election. The MSM is what brought all of this into the discussion in the first place. Why bring it up in regards to Trump and not Romney or McCain or Bush? Could it be because all of this rhetoric is contrived and not actually based on anything substantial?

    The basic thing that the MSM is calling racism on is the border issue. I still don't understand how preventing illegal immigration in itself is racist. Maybe we can start from that. Do you think there is any border security issue at all, or do you think countries should not have borders? It's an interesting utopian kind of idea but what if it doesn't play out in practicality as it should in a utopia?

    Trump has also used coded language regarding Muslims, saying we need to ban all Muslims from entering the country. This again is a flag to racists.
    That actually wasn't coded language, he pretty much said that outright. He was talking about the thousands of "refugees" from Syria (a hotbed of Islamic violence and terrorism right now) that the US government wants to bring in to the US and support at enormous cost to the taxpayer. I would be extremely wary of this, because when has the US government ever actually cared about the welfare of Middle Easterners? Never, unless they have something to gain from it. It would be very easy to fly over a bunch of mercenary or terrorist types and wreak havoc using a program like this, even if someone wants to believe that it only happens through "negligence," which I do not at all believe.

    The country has immigration laws and they are being enforced. The Obama administration has deported more illegals than any prior president, yet republicans stoke fear in the public with talk of Muslim terrorists and Mexican rapists/criminals.
    Deporting more than before is not necessarily a statement of success. I don't affiliate with political parties. I would have supported Bernie if things were slightly different, and he's way out in left field as far as that goes. Playing party politics is just that: playing. It's a game, two sides of the same coin, controlled opposition to keep real opposition out. Or at least try to. Trump is real opposition, which is why his own party leaders are going into meltdown mode, because as Newt Gingrich himself said, they can't control him.

    Something else interesting to think about is that in California, illegal immigrants are actually going to be able to vote, because in California you don't have to be a citizen to get a driver's license and other proof of identity required to vote, even in national elections. Why not just make US elections global, and take votes from everyone on Earth? What kind of political ideology do you think is behind that? Link

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  10. #37
    Senior Member lift the veil's Avatar
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    “When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

    –Real estate mogul Donald Trump, presidential announcement speech, June 16, 2015


    I bet the majority of Hispanic voters in Nevada backed either Clinton or Sanders. Those who voted for either Trump or Rubio were voting against their self-interest, but hey, uniformed, delusional and self-loathing people do that all the time.

    As for Duke (and people of his ilk), I bet he also backed Romney, McCain and Bush, he just didn't make it public. I doubt he backed Obama. LOL.

    As for refugees, they are put through an immigration protocol and their background is screened. It is not just an open door, come right in policy, which is what is being portrayed in the right wing media, AKA FOX NEWS.

    As for that link regarding CA voting, what kind of political ideology is behind Judge Napolitano and Fox news? They lie all the time about "facts". That is what FOX NEWS does best, lie and make up crap, and their devoted, mindless/drone-like viewers fall for it, hook, line and sinker. I have SERIOUS doubts about anything that they push.

    Of course I think we need to have borders and prevent illegal immigration. Laws need to be followed.

    Anyone who is not a Native American is an immigrant or a descendant of an immigrant. European refugees invaded "AMERICA," displaced the native people, raped them, infected them with diseases, stole their land and later resorted to mass GENOCIDE against them. What was left of them, were herded into reservations (camps) were the genocide continued.

    What a bunch of hypocrites.
    Last edited by lift the veil, 19th March 2016 at 12:31.

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    If you have to come at this from a "republican vs democrat" way of looking at the world then we aren't going to get very far, because I don't operate on that level and I don't think much good has ever come of it.

    Corruption is corruption no matter which side of the "aisle" you're on. The kind of sense I get from that kind of political debate is, "my crap doesn't stink because your crap stinks worse." Both sides play that game, and it really is silly. I don't associate with either of them because I know they're all crooks. Both of the major parties in the US are filled with cronyism and corruption and it is a false dichotomy to begin with when you look at the practicality of what they both actually vote for and implement. It comes with the territory when you're talking politics, that everyone is corrupt. Every politician has strings attached. The question of who is pulling the strings is where it becomes more interesting to me. You have to look at this from a level that is not superficial, that is not coming to you from Fox or CNN or MSNBC or any of them. The truth is not going to come out of your TV set. And a lot of what I am reading above is coming out of TV sets 24/7 lately.
    Last edited by bsbray, 17th March 2016 at 21:18.

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  13. #39
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    Quote Originally posted by bsbray View Post
    Both of the major parties in the US are filled with cronyism and corruption...
    from what I've been following, that's why Trump has gained traction.
    he wants to get things back inline, a reset.
    is he superman. nope, but he's going to try...
    I'm shocked that no one has seen that.

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    Quote Originally posted by jimmer View Post
    ah, hasn't it been established long ago that when hitler gets into the conversation, all is lost?

    this hitler = trump stuff is nonsense and below intelligent banter.

    here's one everyone missed:

    hitler loved dogs / trump likes hot dogs.

    outrageous!!!!!! : )
    Thank you for the sanity and maturity.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

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  17. #41
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    Hitler, they are still finding out the financial truths around his rise and fall, usual culprits involved, same as nowadays, does anyone find it unusual that all of a sudden we have two candidates, Trump and Bernie, on opposite sides, no choice once again ?. Imo tptW will let Bernie win and force a vice president on him and then bump him off, a plan they have tried before.

  18. #42
    Senior Member lift the veil's Avatar
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    During a recent debate, Trump said that he can not release his tax returns because he is being audited. The IRS says nothing prevents someone from sharing their own tax information.

    So if that is the case, then what is Trump hiding about his taxes???


    http://thehill.com/policy/finance/27...ng-tax-returns

    IRS: Nothing prevents Trump from releasing tax returns

    By Naomi Jagoda - 02/26/16 03:25 PM EST
    Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump is not prohibited from releasing his tax returns because he is being audited, according to the Internal Revenue Service.

    “Nothing prevents individuals from sharing their own tax information,” the IRS said in a statement.

    Trump, a wealthy businessman, said during Thursday’s debate that he can’t release his tax returns because he is the subject of an audit. At a press conference on Friday, he reiterated that he would not make his returns publicly available until the audit is complete.

    “I’m just going to put you people to rest: Until my audit is finished, very simple, you are not going to see anything,” he said.

    But while tax law does not prevent Trump from releasing his returns, waiting until his audit is completed may be beneficial, experts said.

    “It might not be smart” for Trump to release his returns while under audit, said Robert Kovacev, a tax lawyer at Steptoe & Johnson and a former counsel in the Justice Department’s tax division.

    If Trump releases his returns and the media focuses on certain transactions, the IRS may then scrutinize those transactions as well, even if the agency otherwise would not have done so or the transactions were innocuous, Kovacev added.

    Dean Zerbe, national managing director of alliantgroup and former senior counsel to the Senate Finance Committee, said he could understand why Trump wouldn’t want “1,000 people helping the IRS with their work.”

    Kenneth Gross, a political lawyer at Skadden Arps, said that if Trump released his returns and the IRS required him to file amendments or changes to his returns, the amendments would also be put in the public eye.

    Trump said during the debate he has been audited every year for “twelve years or something like that.”

    IRS Commissioner John Koskinen said Friday it would be "rare" for an individual taxpayer to be audited as frequently as Trump says he has been.

    However, high earners have a greater chance of being audited than most people.

    In fiscal year 2015, the audit coverage rate for people making at least $1 million was about 9.55 percent. For all individuals, the audit coverage rate was 0.84 percent, according to the IRS.

    Experts said pointed out that just because Trump is being audited doesn’t mean he’s done anything wrong.

    “He’s not just a wealthy fellow. He’s a wealthy fellow, I’m sure, with complicated tax returns,” said Zerbe, who has donated to Trump rival Marco Rubio.

    Trump said shortly after the debate that the IRS may be targeting him because he is Christian. But the IRS said they do not audit people based on their religion and politics.

    “The IRS stresses that audits of tax returns are based on the information contained on the taxpayer’s return and the underlying tax law – nothing else. Politics and religion do not factor into this,” the agency said. “The audit process is handled by career, non-partisan civil servants, and we have processes in place to safeguard the exam process.”

    Ben Kamisar contributed.

    - Updated at 4:05 p.m.
    Last edited by lift the veil, 19th March 2016 at 12:30.

  19. #43
    Senior Member donk's Avatar
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    It's insane to me that people think Trump is his "own man", if there is any truth to that, then THEY are letting him dominate the collective consciousness because of the hate and anger and outrage and righteousness and divisiveness that he brings out in the populace.

    There is one fair comparison to Hitler, he SEEMS like a peoples' populists' rights guy, that's gonna take care of the citizens better than the status quo entrenched politicians peeps are finally fed up with. I think it's naïve to actually believe he is, and it is insane to me to see that MAINSTREAM delusion pushed here.

    Oh, he talks to the great Putin**, he'll definitely be a great choice I'd be terrified, if I thought the POTUS actually made a damn bit of difference.



    **actually, it'd probably be more accurate to say: he does not give the appearance of being openly adversarial toward him that most other "mainstream US politicians" do...so he must be awesome. He and Pooty-poots are gonna make the world a better place for the little people :unity:

    Last edited by donk, 18th March 2016 at 13:04.
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  21. #44
    Senior Member lift the veil's Avatar
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    See the post above. http://jandeane81.com/threads/8857-T...#post841947422

    How much did he pay in income taxes??? Maybe past is prologue, as they say....

    Per the article below, Trump did not pay any income taxes in 1978 and the following year by claiming depreciation on the value of his buildings.

    Us average/regular working class folks have to pay 20-30 % taxes on our income. http://www.oecd.org/ctp/tax-policy/t...atest-year.htm

    The ELITE know how to play the game, that they themselves set-up with the help of their paid for shills in congress.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinio...ston/81436212/

    The real Trump tax scandal: David Cay Johnston

    There’s a big story in the tax returns that Donald Trump claims he cannot release because of what he describes as a routine audit. The big story is not the true size of his wealth, but about how Congress has turned the income tax into a source of massive wealth for many of the richest Americans, including Trump.

    That may seem hard to believe because the income tax burdens most of us. But the riches to be mined from the tax code are well known to America’s top tax lawyers and their clients.

    Since 1986, Congress has accomplished what medieval alchemists and Sir Isaac Newton could not in their quest for a philosophers' stone that they believed would transform lead into gold. Our lawmakers have magically transformed income taxes into a source of wealth for many in the donor class by adding just a few lines to the nearly 6,500-page Internal Revenue Code.

    It's all about tax rules that require you to depreciate, or reduce, the value of buildings over time, even if the market value of the structures is going up. If your depreciation is greater than your traditional income from work and businesses, Congress lets you report negative income. If these paper losses are just a dollar more than traditional income, it wipes out your income taxes for the year.

    If Trump's returns show he has paid no income taxes in some years, that could be a reason he has not yet released details.

    Congress says most Americans can deduct no more than $25,000 of real estate depreciation against their income. But if you work two days a week managing real estate and own enough that the depreciation exceeds your salary and other income, Congress lets you live income-tax-free. And for as long as you keep buying buildings and depreciating them, the tax does not come due.

    A decade after Trump graduated from college, he enjoyed a luxurious bachelor lifestyle in Manhattan while paying no income taxes. Depreciation on his buildings let him tell the IRS that his 1978 income was negative by $406,379. The next year, it was negative $3.4 million, according to documents I found in casino regulatory files.

    To understand how reporting a negative income can be profitable, take a look at your pay stub. If Congress gave you a deal similar to Trump’s, instead of the government deducting taxes from your paycheck, you would keep that money — like an interest-free loan — and could use it to make more money.

    Invest that money at 5% and then pay the tax 20 years later. For each dollar of tax, you'd pocket $1.65. Net 10%, and you’d pocket $5.73 for each tax dollar you didn’t pay.

    Trump in 2011 claimed that NBC paid him $65 million a year for The Apprentice, a figure the network called “grossly inaccurate.” Let’s go with Trump’s number and assume he reports a negative income that year through the magic of depreciation. The federal income tax escaped on his Apprentice haul would be almost $23 million. Trump claims he is a world-class investor, so assume he earns 10% interest on it. After 20 years, that $23 million tax burden would be transformed into a $130 million net gain.

    About 2.1 million taxpayers report negative incomes annually, IRS data show. The IRS knows, but won’t say, how many of those are failed small business owners and how many are rich landlords like Trump. Congress has not asked.

    That is not the only way the super rich are allowed to defer income taxes and profit from the money until it’s due. Another rule lets managers of private equity and hedge funds defer taxes on unlimited amounts for as long as they choose. And still another allows executives delay until retirement much more of their income taxes than ordinary people.

    The big story in Trump’s tax returns is that Congress has created two income tax systems, separate and unequal. One system burdens most Americans. The other enriches the donor class.

    An audit is no reason for Trump to withhold his tax returns. Releasing them does not affect the IRS, and the agency has already said nothing prevents individuals from sharing their own tax information. Moreover, Trump has no excuse for holding back tax returns from years no longer under audit.

    It has been traditional for many years for presidents and candidates to release their tax returns. As of Sunday, of the two Democrats and four Republicans still in the presidential race, Trump was the only holdout.

    Trump promotes himself as a champion of people whom he says Washington politicians and the donor class ignore. He could bolster that position by revealing his tax returns so we can determine how much of his wealth comes from his business acumen and how much from congressional tax favors.

    David Cay Johnston, a Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative reporter, is the author of Perfectly Legal, Free Lunch, The Fine Print and other books.

    In addition to its own editorials, USA TODAY publishes diverse opinions from outside writers, including our Board of Contributors. To read more columns like this, go to the Opinion front page.
    WHAT IS TRUMP HIDING IN HIS TAX RETURNS?????
    Last edited by lift the veil, 19th March 2016 at 12:28.

  22. #45
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