Trump: Illusion, Mist and Bought?

**Emil El Zapato** · 26th October 2019, 23:14

To clarify a little more so I don't continue to embarrass myself...

If unproven claims were not part of the formula could you or anyone maintain that the Bush clan was 'worse' than any other examples of American behavior. I told you long ago the only thing I found wrong about Junior's war action is the fact that it was a lie that started the war. Saddam was magnitudes worse in terms of warmongering and disregard for human life. He was a genocidal maniac. It is good that he is gone and that was the only saving grace.

By comparison, I found Reagan much more despicable than Bush. I liked Nixon but then there was a lot I didn't realize about his true legacy. I found inspiration in his outreach to China. I'm not a fan of war and truly I don't understand where humanity finds the depravity to wage it, but we do it...and in the end we either win or lose and there is not much else to say.

Again, don't misunderstand what I'm saying...'I' with an exaggerated I would never do it but the benign psychopath is there to take up the mantle for the sake of the vulnerable human. Motives, motives, motives...why we do it, how we wage it, and what are our end goals? Those are very sobering questions that of necessity have to be addressed in the here and now.

And last but not least, today's Republican party is decidedly NOT the party of Abraham Lincoln, hell as we well know even Abraham Lincoln was not Abraham Lincoln, but that is the nature of the reality that we deal with daily.

**Emil El Zapato** · 26th October 2019, 23:31

One last thing Fred,

Have you ever read Friedrich Hayek's "Road to Serfdom". See if you can find a single Republican in today's party that fits Hayek's description of a 'true' righty and I'll stop embarrassing myself...just for you.

**Fred Steeves** · 27th October 2019, 00:10

Originally posted by NotAPretender

See if you can find a single Republican in today's party that fits Hayek's description of a 'true' righty and I'll stop embarrassing myself...just for you.

No, for Chrissake do it just for your own sake, and the forum's sake.

**Emil El Zapato** · 27th October 2019, 12:50

Fred, be for real...I ain't buying it. I'll match my content against yours any day you wish to do it. I'll be honest with you...I can't bring myself to tell you what I think of your input and I don't know why...I think it is because you do have redeeming qualities but politeness and intelligence aren't two of them.

**Fred Steeves** · 27th October 2019, 14:20

Originally posted by NotAPretender

Fred, be for real...I ain't buying it.

I'm not selling anything, what I'm doing is asking for some substance on these issues, which is still sorely lacking by the way.

Originally posted by NotAPretender

I'll match my content against yours any day you wish to do it.

You just got done doing so, and when boiled down all you really said was the usual "liberal good conservative bad". Dude, I could train a parrot to say that...

Is that all you got?

**Emil El Zapato** · 27th October 2019, 14:24

What I've got Fred is something you are incapable of seeing and is that my fault? I gave up playing that game in my teen years.

**Emil El Zapato** · 27th October 2019, 14:29

I will say this, I've learned a little something about you and it took me quite awhile. Your lack of courtesy has an edge of predatory to it. I'm impressed but shouldn't be surprised that you do appear to be a genetic conservative.

**Fred Steeves** · 27th October 2019, 14:36

Originally posted by NotAPretender

I'm impressed but shouldn't be surprised that you do appear to be a genetic conservative.

There it is again, I just KNEW you'd throw me that bone if I waited a few minutes LOL!

Truth is you just demonstrated that really IS all you got when it comes to political discourse: "Liberal good guy/Conservative bad guy".

Thanks for playing.

**Emil El Zapato** · 27th October 2019, 14:40

Sure thing Fred, things do remain the same.

**Aianawa** · 28th October 2019, 03:28

Nope, changing so so fast that people are ready now more than ever to know self truths galore, before outside truths, ugly as, are allowed to be more known. imo .

**Gio** · 28th October 2019, 08:11

Speaking ugly as ...

Trump's new rank ...

**Dreamtimer** · 28th October 2019, 13:39

The real problem here is not that people like me destroy families..

Good Lord, man, nobody but you said that. That's the worst possible take on my words. And I doubt you're actually trying to prove my point. I've seen cynics first-hand throughout my life. They like to call themselves realists, but that moniker doesn't apply.

It's not realistic to say that anyone here thinks that 'people like you' destroy families.

Not to mention the fact that I know you understand the context, Fred. Interesting that you choose to ignore it in this instance.

When have I championed Democratic heroes? Oh yeah, I haven't. I never championed Hillary or Obama. Or AOC. Or Bernie. Or Warren.

I did post a couple of videos of Yang. Is that supposed to make him my hero? You're so far out on a limb, Fred, I'm gonna have to call the fire department.

Just because the majority of folks who don't vote are inclined to vote Democratic doesn't mean a darn thing about my personal feelings or heroes. It's a simple fact.

A triggering one for a lot of folks, no doubt.

Cynics love both-siderism. They love to pretend that both sides are equally guilty of things which are patently very unbalanced. I'm not going to buy that BS today, tomorrow, or next year.

Pointing out the evil of someone like Cheney is in no way a comment about Clinton or anyone else. It's fallacy and foolhardiness to keep playing the 'both-sides' game, which is why I refuse.

I also didn't fall for the tripe about Hillary saying that Tulsi was being groomed by Russians. It was Republicans. (an easy confusion nowadays.

)They would love to see her go third party to take votes away from the Democratic frontrunner.

How ironic it would be if Tulsi did go third party to attract all those independent votes. Ironic indeed.

**Fred Steeves** · 28th October 2019, 15:00

Nothing has really changed here from "democrat good guy/republican bad guy."

If war criminal Cheney was a dem you would be minimizing his record, and if Queen Bee was Repub you would be trampling her record every chance you get.

So I guess it really was funny when Queen Bee laughed about destroying Libya, the Clinton Foundation is pure as the wind driven snow, and when she called Gabbard and Stein Russian assets, she was really talking about a republican plot.

Yeah...

Now you can huff and puff all you want about how I'm yet again twisting and purposely misconstruing your words, but what I have described here is exactly the way you and NAP come across.

"Democrat good guy/republican bad guy", and anyone who disagrees with that is guilty of "both siderism".

**Emil El Zapato** · 28th October 2019, 16:41

One of the really odd things about life is that the truth is actually the truth

**Aragorn** · 28th October 2019, 17:25

Originally posted by NotAPretender

One of the really odd things about life is that the truth is actually the truth

Doesn't mean that it's your truth, NotAPretender, any more than that of Aianawa. The only difference between US Democrats and US Republicans is in how they go about in attaining their goal, but the goal is still the same for both of them, namely that the US of A remains the dominant economic and military power in the world. Everything else is just a distraction ─ bread and circuses, dogs and ponies.

And the worst part of it all is that you should have already long known all of this by now, but that you cannot let go of your indoctrination.