The exorcisms of Mr. Simon Parkes.

[Divine Feminine]

Is/ So he does it and imagine that first time, you know that first time someone slips money to him? Had to be strange, especially if he wasn't trained, was in any way uncomfortable and my guess all the signs were there telling him in his gut don't. But he did anyway and that was that and the start.

Well here's the thing...sociopaths don't feel guilt so they don't worry about thinking they're doing anything wrong. It's how they're wired. Which is why they won't apologize. You will find many of them in high positions, CEO, Presidents/world leaders, banking industry, government organizations.....I would bet my life these people are sought after and those in control know where to find them. How? Because it's my understanding that all babies born have blood taken from them so it's being recorded and attached to their social security number or whatever identification number a country uses. And they would have to do this in order to locate them as only a small percentage of the population has the proper genetic makeup to play the role of the sociopath. By placing these people in key positions it doesn't take much for them to wreck havoc as they can now call the shots for the rest of us. Makes you wonder how many of our elections are truly genuine. Take a close look at some of the world leaders and their behavior! Not too hard to see why we have such a mess going on.

I do believe there is a connection between O- negative blood types and sociopaths. I would love to take a look at a couple of their astrological charts to see if I could notice similarities. This will prove difficult unless you have a time of birth. So these hospitals give those in control a mechanism to search for individuals who fit the profile. And seriously after all the fraud we've seen don't tell me your information is protected as if 'they' want access to it, they're gonna get it. They know who these people are and where to find them. My twin flame is a sociopath and former banker/VP for a very large and well known bank. And you know how he got into the industry? He was recruited on a flight into San Francisco by a bank executive he 'just happened' to be sitting next too...Knowing a sociopaths behavior, they respond quite well when their egos are stroked and they're made to feel important....how could he refuse the opportunity? He was getting an offer of a lifetime. He was well educated, intelligent and rubbing shoulders with wealthy and well known elitist from the East coast. They knew who he was....they knew what colleges he attended, they knew his IQ, and without a doubt they knew he had the genetic make-up of a sociopath. I cannot prove this, but I have high suspicions this is going on and has been going on since at least the 60's when they first started taking blood samples. I don't think you have a choice to refuse, it's protocol. And this is exactly how your countries and every aspect of them have been taken over. They find the right specimens and groom them. And just to be clear, no I'm not a sociopath. My twin flame and I are the quintessential of yin and yang, polar opposites...just in case someone is wondering. Having been raised by a sociopath(adopted father) and close conversations with my twin flame, I know sociopaths very well....but I will tell you this is all by design which I've explained in great detail on another thread.

After that its just a matter of time really before the crap hits the fan and now its there. Big surprise. Many saw it coming and its like yep. We tried to tell ya and you kicked us out for it. Oh well your loss, he took the funds or the checks or whatever and made commitments and then didn't keep them. So what happens typically with anyone that says what they are going to do and then does the opposite or nothing is that they get called on it! Frankly I'm surprised it went so long. If he or anyone said he was getting back shortly then 14 days is too long. Any longer is just con and someone playing games both with you and themselves.

What happens on these forums, is the second someone tries to voice a strong opinion or concern they get shut down. Their posts get deleted or they are reprimanded/put on vacation so they can't speak. Well if you're on a forum and you don't have a way to contact other members you are locked out. How can you warn them? Fortunately over time, many of us have exchanged emails, shared information which is why more and more are catching on to what's taking place. I suspect a lot of these forums, not all, but a lot of them are started for the purpose of controlling the information. So straight out of the gate, you are walking into the abyss not realizing what you're getting into. So these forums 'fear' people into not wanting to speak out. If you notice, the Simon thread we've been discussing only has 4 pages of comments, and I suspect it's because people are afraid to even share how they really feel. There should be serious outrage and if you know Sarah's story, you would understand even more why. But here's the problem, she and others have been stifled and unless you saw this, knew the back story combined with all the other b.s. that has taken place you would have no knowledge or concern over the matter. Here's just a mini-example of someone being stifled, look at what this one poster had to say:

Working Actor:
Guys..

It amazes me how many people in the 'spiritual" community, have all these grand contacts with offworld intelligences..but they need $29.95 of YOUR money(or whatever amount) for their books,or their "readings" or whatever the hell else, to get their rent paid and keep their lights on. Seems to me if Simon actually was what he says he is, he could come up with a better way to keep himself in beer and potato chips.

Keep giving away your power,people. I'm sure it'll end well..#SMDH


DF talking now- He was then somewhat reprimanded for his comments by Paula, a long time member and former moderator(it appears they have her 'trained' quite well). She meticulously responds to each of his concerns. I underlined the one jab that irritated me the most because what's the message this sends not only to the poster but the rest of the community:

Working Actor says:
Seems to me if Simon actually was what he says he is, he could come up with a better way to keep himself in beer and potato chips.

Paula's response:
Food for thought: lowbrow poke-pokes says more about the person spouting than the one they attack.

Working Actor says: Quote …need $29.95 of YOUR money(or whatever amount) for their books,or their "readings" or whatever the hell else, to get their rent paid and keep their lights on.

Paula's response: I’ll purchase books and donate as a way to thank those for their time, energy, work on themselves and courage to put forth their point of view. Heat, electricity, food…the basics to help one’s family to survived? Unfortunately, that’s plain old reality.

Working actor says: Keep giving away your power,people.

Paula says: Yes, self-empowerment, healing and listen within are the goals. Many need a jumpstart from shared wisdom, synchronicities and such.


DF talking now....She then throws up an 'off topic' icon which is done all the time to get you back in line, and/or supposedly justify the comments being made. Or, often I've seen a person get the 'Back on Topic' icon thrown at them. And the point being to try and discredit you for thinking such silly things, but hey, there's no censoring going on here, look the other way. It's a subtle action such as this which creates the atmosphere of censorship and partly this is due to many knowing her past position. The above conversation took place in two posts, but as you know it doesn't copy over this way which is why it looks choppy. I'm not gonna critique every facet of a person's comments. Ya, maybe he could have said it a little better, but you get the jest of what the guy is saying and again this is his right to express himself. Paula's remark "Many need a jumpstart from shared wisdom, synchronicities and such" tells me she has no clue what Simon is even about and/or if she does, than she's basically aiding and abetting. I don't see how Simon can be the kind of person you need shared wisdom from or a jump start, but hey, this is just my opinion.

The above is only a minor exchange, this is n.o.t.h.i.n.g. compared to some of the stuff I've seen go on. But imagine this....How often have you missed a heated exchange because the entire comments were deleted? Maybe even the poster was eliminated? So as far as you're concerned nothing ever happened right? Which is why many of you may feel in the dark about what's going on, because by the time you sign in to the forum, posters have been vacationed or memberships revoked, in order to shut them up so you have no idea of their concern as it's been wiped away as if it never happened.

To be clear, I speak to everyone, I'm not talking to Jengelen only. I merely used his/her comments to launch the thought process. I am very sincere about teaching others what's taking place on some of these forums so I appreciate that I'm not being censored. I'm not trying to be a jerk here. I'm sure PA isn't the only forum with issues, and I'm not targeting select individuals because I have some hidden agenda, I'm calling it as I see it. I think it's important to talk about this intelligently so people have an idea of the musings occurring before their very eyes. Not everyone has all day to sit on a forum in order to identify nefarious activities, ya, I get it. But to truly understand what's going on, you have to be patient, observant and have somewhat of a good memory. With all that's being posted it's very, very easy to forget some of the shenanigans that have taken place. Most people don't pay attention cause hey...it's not happening to them right, so why should they care? Those running the show know this and a moment of drama will be soon forgotten allowing the pattern to repeat over and over again as members are purged(the one's who get what's going on and speak out) to only be replaced by new victims who are excited to be a 'part of the team'. A forum that asks you to fill out information and give reasons why you should be considered a candidate for 'their' forum sets up the standard that tests your ego. Why? Because they tell you not all who apply get accepted right? So now you're 'special' because you've been accepted to be a member on a well known forum within the alternative community. See how that works? And ya, I fell for it too....we all did, which is why many of us got on there.

Like I told Sam in a private conversation. I somewhat grew up on Avalon as several of us did. I met wonderful people and had many eye opening experiences. I am all the more wiser and grateful for my 'training', ha! Now I can teach others what I have learned. And to think I haven't even told you the half it, lmao, and no I really don't want to as I have so many more interesting things to be researching. It takes effort to pound out monster posts in great detail and I usually do not have the time to write book-quality dissertations. I hope what I'm sharing helps others be more aware of their surroundings and enables them to identify patterns of negligent, gross misconduct, and inappropriate behavior. Do read the link I provided on sociopaths as it will help you spot potential problems that may wreck havoc on your lives not only on forums but in the real world...uh..wait...I mean the illusion world, lol.

[Maggie]

Divine Feminine,
I think that you are correct that we were trained in an underlying culture in which traits of narcissm and sociopathic behavior shapes what we consider "normal" behavior. IMO, This distortion is the biggest problem we face as a human species. Thanks, Maggie

EDIT
There are some issues in life that we each have personal interest, knowledge and maybe obligation to stand up to "fight" but the alt community is off on some IMO strange faux tangential issues that we never can actually do anything about (like UFOs, like archontic infection etc.)

I know this is a little off topic but it has to do with a real and IMO compelling problem that is REAL and personal to me. the issue has to do with what is in my capacity to change (even by nonparticipation) and "What is my willingness to support as a cause?"

Nurses are IMO one group who are complicit in supporting a system that includes very anti-life liberty and happiness affirming behaviors. It is seen by what vaccines and inappropriate dependence on pharmaceuticals means for poeple.

Example:
I learned as a nursing student in 1976 that overuse and misuse of antibiotics was a TERRIBLE problem.

Then as a Nurse Practitioner trainee in 1988, I was very vocal and active with the clients I saw to avoid using antibiotics when people presented with "cold symptoms" and nonbacterial infections. This often angered the patients. I was the same with narcotics for pain and sleeping pills, anxiety medications etc. presenting patients wanted these drugs. I decided not to continue being in this role because I just did not like being in a position to always be in opposition based on my own concerns. I did not want to prescribe drugs that I think are not helpful.

Regarding vaccines, I believe we have the right as a parent, as a person to say no to vaccines.

Vaccines may be a gross way to give herd immunity but they hurt individuals and there are other ways to treat individuals who are ill. In 2010 I was one of the first health care workers to face mandatory immunization. I left nursing because this was an affront to my own integrity.

Since then the issue is escalating and WHISTLEBLOWERS Like Andrew Wakefield face all the blow back possible in the interest of the "normal" community fears from the "uninformed crowd", greed of the phramaceutical interests, desire to have measurable objective evidence of compliance of insititutions and other reasoning.

I respect the need to bring information to the community. I consider the people like Andrew Wakefield to be real truth tellers. It is IMo a psyop that we get enticed to spend hours on youtube with The personalities of wowo woowoo like CGs, SPs, SGs (initials you may recognize) rather than mobilizing to protect our physical interests like the freedom to choose vaccines and how we receive them. IMO this is what is important and is REAL.

Dr. Andrew Wakefield, in the meantime, lost his career and name for simply following the truth his research led him to. He became the scapegoat, the “straw man” to knock down in the mainstream media. Every time someone would bring up any question regarding vaccines and autism you will usually encounter something like: “That theory has been totally proven false, and the guy who made it up was convicted of fraud.” I have even had people tell me on social media that “the guy” (most don’t even know his name) did “prison time.”

However, Dr. Wakefield was never convicted by a jury or in a court of law, and he lives in the U.S. today. He has issued challenges to his accusers to debate him in the media, but of course they have never accepted his challenge. He is a leading expert in gut health, a subject sorely needing research today, in an age where not only vaccines, but antibiotics, pesticides, and many other things have destroyed our ability to digest our food properly, leading to many bowel diseases. A list of his research, provided from his Facebook Page, is listed below.http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/the...ing-the-truth/

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf3yXk4oJPs

[Divine Feminine]

Yes, I think the key to eradicating acceptance of sociopathic behavior is the ability to properly identify it first. Once people can properly identify it, they have to learn how to remove the acceptance of the behavior from society. Things have gotten out of control due to many who chose to look the other way as it wasn't happening to them. Now.....because the behavior is tolerated, the stakes are higher for those who speak out. So the masses are being 'feared' into submission, in order to control and shut them up. What we see going on in the forum surroundings is merely a replication of what's taking place in the society as a whole. It's a very easy trap to get sucked into as you watch individuals repeat the meme's amongst eachother. So much so, they probably don't even realize they're doing it. I'm sure I've done it, maybe I still even do it....It's time to break the cycle and stop giving these people a podium.

We have to be cautious...it's really easy to start pointing fingers as you mentioned. From my experience of being raised by a sociopath I will tell you a couple of key things that consistently stood out....
1. They will not apologize for nothing! They are never wrong and will fight you to the death defending their idiotic behavior. And often it's behavior that doesn't make sense which is why you cannot rationalize it. It's not you that is doing something wrong. Typical 3D thinking is you are trying to figure out what you did to generate their poor treatment towards you. It's not you! 'They' don't make sense and that's the point!

2.They have no heart. Often cold with minimal emotions, they do not have the capability to 'feel'. So you will notice them doing things that most would could consider unacceptable and yet they will show no remorse or they will think something is truly funny when it isn't especially when it hurts another person.

3.Their behavior is irrational.

This takes time to observe these patterns. I have watched for several years on PA, so it allowed me the opportunity to notice out of ordinary behavior and repetitive character traits through not only typed words, but video, audio, research and specific situations transpiring right in front of me. Most sociopaths I have observed seem extremely intelligent. Also, pay attention to their line of work, that can be telling.

Certainly there are qualities on the list that many people have. It's when you see a good majority of them if not all in a person and the repetition of the same behavior over time that makes for a more compelling identification.

[Divine Feminine]

Bang on Maggie! I see you added more to your original post! Yes! I'm glad you went there! Part of our responsibility is saying 'no'! There are countless people working in industries who support and implement this sociopathic behavior! Drives me nuts! I personally have taken the stance and removed myself from as much as possible. I know it's almost impossible to pull yourself out completely especially when it comes to the monetary system, but a little effort might go a long way. The other obvious dilemma is saying 'no' which can have a devastating effect on someone's earning capabilities...it's a huge problem. But the more we let this get out of control, the worse it's gonna get.

You might like to know I'm a member of NVIC which stands for National Vaccine Information Center which promotes Your Health Your Family Your Choice/ See here:
http://www.nvic.org/

When you sign up you can be notified when crap is taking place in your state to be blunt.

[sarahdita85]

Yeah everything you have said makes sense to me SP often laughed at things which where not remotely funny which confused me, also had no regard towards anyone else's feelings, (having a wife, fiance and gf all at the same time and he brought the new fiance to meet the wife). The reason I didn't bring it up much is because other men who fancied themselves as 'alpha' males made me believe it was all my fault by having 'provocative' pictures as my profile pic, which was me wearing a 1950's style knee length strapless dress and wearing makeup. When you listen to things long enough you start to believe them. Not anymore.

[Maggie]

I know it's almost impossible to pull yourself out completely especially when it comes to the monetary system, but a little effort might go a long way. The other obvious dilemma is saying 'no' can have a devastating effect on someone's earning capabilities...it's a huge problem. But the more we let this get out of control, the worst it's gonna get.

OK, so what was one of the very first presenting statements of Simon Parks at PA? He emphasized that humans are the CREATORS of our reality. Yes, we Lose much by refusing to cooperate with the old system. But if we spend the majority of hours pondering our inability to cooperate with the old system, we miss the opportunity to open some unknown avenues.

The same people that tell us we are the creators (and they say that because we ARE and we know that deep down) spend the rest of the time cataloging why we are stuck, sick, impoverished, victimized and pathetic. We are mired in the psyop of "I KNOW WHY we cannot create anything new". Then we are left with nothing BUT "I must cooperate better to survive" and the sociopathy continues.

.....think about that constant message, that constant reminding of "who has the power?"( and it's ...not you) and you have the stick of the "Narcissists are US" controlers.

[Chester]

Thanks Maggie - great points.

My post regarding persons A, B and C was more about the stupid role I played in taking hearsay and rumors to a bigger level. The reason I felt it wise not to identify publicly who person A, B and C are is because their publicly disclosed identities don't effect my point.

My point was all and only that I stupidly took hearsay info to another which then blew up things to a bigger degree than may have otherwise occurred if I had not.

This doesn't mean that statements made about person B are not true or true, either way. But I had no proof and so I should not have done what I did.

In addition, and this is only the way I prefer to operate now, I have decided that unless I have my own direct experience of something, I am not going to become involved in the internet gang mobs that I find spring up (and of a few I had once been a part of).

In part, I came to this protocol because when I shifted my position regarding the veracity of a minor internet celeb, I was targeted by an internet gang mob beholden to that celeb! Not fun. And there's nothing one can do because so many people seem to enjoy trying and convicting those who simply don't believe the same things they believe. They will go to the lengths of creating false stories and theories based on very little truth if any and in most cases when truth has been involved, it is twisted into something far from the actual truth. How ironic so many of these same folks like to point the Orwelian finger at others when they are kings (and queens) of double-speak and truth-fiction.

[Aianawa]

Hi Sam, you have been thrown down the toilet a few times and thrown yourself also FMO ( from my observation ), also fmo you learnt, changed, improved intuition and helped others with your learnt and experienced perceptions, applause from another toiletor lol, once we stop annoying ourselves with others who smell, look and we're taught by a duck also, we only will quack from memory.

[Divine Feminine]

Yeah everything you have said makes sense to me SP often laughed at things which where not remotely funny which confused me, also had no regard towards anyone else's feelings, (having a wife, fiance and gf all at the same time and he brought the new fiance to meet the wife). The reason I didn't bring it up much is because other men who fancied themselves as 'alpha' males made me believe it was all my fault by having 'provocative' pictures as my profile pic, which was me wearing a 1950's style knee length strapless dress and wearing makeup. When you listen to things long enough you start to believe them. Not anymore.

Right on...it all makes sense now when you see the descriptions doesn't it? Making you think you're the problem is part of their attempt at control. They will insult you and try to make you look foolish in front of others as they 'get off' on discrediting you. What you're experiencing is a person who's imbalanced and incapable of changing their ways as in 'their' mind you're the problem not them. Arrogance is their weakness. And the reason this behavior appears to be accepted by others is due to the majority of the population looking the other way and doing exactly what Maggie says below, "I must cooperate better to survive." When I was growing up, friends and family members could see something was very wrong with how I was treated, but no one ever intervened to help. How many times do we see this go on?

OK, so what was one of the very first presenting statements of Simon Parks at PA? He emphasized that humans are the CREATORS of our reality. Yes, we Lose much by refusing to cooperate with the old system. But if we spend the majority of hours pondering our inability to cooperate with the old system, we miss the opportunity to open some unknown avenues.

The same people that tell us we are the creators (and they say that because we ARE and we know that deep down) spend the rest of the time cataloging why we are stuck, sick, impoverished, victimized and pathetic. We are mired in the psyop of "I KNOW WHY we cannot create anything new". Then we are left with nothing BUT "I must cooperate better to survive" and the sociopathy continues.

.....think about that constant message, that constant reminding of "who has the power?"( and it's ...not you) and you have the stick of the "Narcissists are US" controlers.

What I've noticed is they have flipped everything in society...they tell you one thing painting a pretty picture and then go do the opposite, which is how they build their foundations of falsities off of the backs of the people. It is the hamster wheel to no where. I think in some cases people don't have the intellectual capacity to see what's happening right in front of them. I can see the dead looks in their faces. Sadly it's years of poisoned food, water, air, vitamin deficiency, and poor education adding insult to injury.

[Chester]

Yeah everything you have said makes sense to me SP often laughed at things which where not remotely funny which confused me, also had no regard towards anyone else's feelings, (having a wife, fiance and gf all at the same time and he brought the new fiance to meet the wife). The reason I didn't bring it up much is because other men who fancied themselves as 'alpha' males made me believe it was all my fault by having 'provocative' pictures as my profile pic, which was me wearing a 1950's style knee length strapless dress and wearing makeup. When you listen to things long enough you start to believe them. Not anymore.

I remember the pic and trust me... I'm a dog. But I never thought that pic provocative. I like the smile and confidence you showed and thought it was a good pic.

[Dreamtimer]

Sarahdita85, no-one should ever tell you you're a 'slut' or 'sending the wrong' message when you post a nice or pretty picture of yourself. If the man, or anyone, had basic decency he'd compliment it for what it is. Thanks Sam! (you're a good dog).

That's exactly what these types do. That way they make you feel responsible for their own wrongdoings. You did nothing wrong.

I don't get the fascination with these types. But I come from a place where I decided at the tender age of 16 not to take on any sort of guru. I also don't want to be taken advantage of when I'm all starry eyed. Infatuation can lead to that. I was always careful about dating guys I was over the moon about.

[donk]

I think we need to get away from "types", focusing on generalities will only get you so far...and more often than creates a whole bunch of distractions and/or straw men.

The facts are that here people (well, at least one person) were openly, directly providing examples of what they felt was abusive behavior. I watched as that discussion was shut down. It's hard to discern too many "facts" (unless someone cares to lay them out?), but that episode was cause for concern

The fact is an accusation that BR himself describes in detail is harmful and irresponsible, which was his exact basis for justifying expulsion of Chritine (if not Hazel and Karelia...I wasn't clear on if he accused them of the same or guilt by association). Not that he needed an excuse, hell I think most people would understand wanting to get your soon-to-be-ex-wife off the forum, but he was using that as a vehicle to shape an image, one he himself sh!ts on by allowing him to remain a member...or at least publicly telling him how an "acceptable" healer should be behaving, like he did with her.

And neither of those points are really what bother me, anyone that wants to believe in BR or find healing in SP apparently need to learn for themselves. It's great to provide perspectives for people to make more informed choices, it's troubling the way that can be so easily manipulated on a forum and it's sad and hard to watch bright eyed bushy tailed niave people walk into it (and no I don't believe they NEED that trauma for a soul lesson, but I digress).

It's the long timers that sit back or worse openly excuse the patterns of behavior that they should know better. its the enabling. When someone puts themselves in the position they did (BR in the designator of "integrity" and "qualified healing" and SP offering service that puts people in vulnerable positions), they must be held to at least their own stated standards. And when they break that trust, expose their hypocracy, they need to be held accountable...or ideally at least own it and apologize.

They can only get away with it, continue the pattern...when they have the support of enablers, people who should know better but excuse and rationalize or ignore or forget it away. (I know this seems a generality, directly contradicting my opening statement but I have several individuals directly in mind, as I'm sure a lot of people reading this would have their own)

[Maggie]

It's the long timers that sit back or worse openly excuse the patterns of behavior that they should know better. its the enabling. When someone puts themselves in the position they did (BR in the designator of "integrity" and "qualified healing" and SP offering service that puts people in vulnerable positions), they must be held to at least their own stated standards. And when they break that trust, expose their hypocracy, they need to be held accountable...or ideally at least own it and apologize.

They can only get away with it, continue the pattern...when they have the support of enablers, people who should know better but excuse and rationalize or ignore or forget it away. (I know this seems a generality, directly contradicting my opening statement but I have several individuals directly in mind, as I'm sure a lot of people reading this would have their own)

You along with Sam point out how "group belonging" creates the enforcing body for the "local PTB". I can't help but think of how formed cliques, gangs, political parties, cults etc. all depend on the members for enforecement. One "leader" cannot do anything.

The OP is about "exorcism". I think that believing in implants and psychic attack is a kind of program that keeps us in line LIKE VOODOO> The remedy of the collective "healing" is ABOUT safety in numbers. IMO the issue is that we have a huge gap of communication with our own access to "mind". We have so many commonalities as humans when trained by other humans. One of the biggest trainings is about group cohesion. The family being the first group.

When one feels betrayed by one's "group", it is a terrrible blow to "I feel safe". We have plenty of people who will and always have been telling us "you have been betrayed". BUT without giving one the way to be sovereign and able to withstand being isolated form the group (sovereign is so thrown around that I actually dislike it a bit) and THRIVE, we will cling to some group.

LOOK to Scientology. The members in the HOLE police themselves. The people told to have no more family contact police themselves.

I do reference this body of programmers because IMO it has seeped into the whole community through beliefs and practices and we have no idea of where all this arose. It started in science fiction and became true as performed in action by humans. Robert Anton Wilson is my go to person who explained well that it is not what we believe but that we Believe that starts feedback loops from the environment to support our observation of what is believed.

The only way we can be controlled is by believing we need to be controlled because we fear the consequences. Then we need to believe we control for the good of all so they are safe. Then we need to bond in our mutual fear and belonging and ALSO fear loss and being segregated. Then we need to hate what would separate us from what we believe keeps us safe.

This may seem like generalizations but the bottom line is we have to be able to feel all those feelings of our own loss, betrayal, fear etc. and transmute them.We can then IMO stand moving through them (and face the terror of the programmed groupiness). IMO we use feelings as they come up in a way that helps reach into our own "mind". That is why I think some have said to move toward fear as a doorway?

Without being able to stand being "thrown out of the group", I think we are bound to replicate the same negative issues of our clinging to belonging ... just change groups?

Maybe again the survivors of scientology might show how they have their own group now.
How could we cooperate without making up all these cliques? IMO one helpful social process may be to focus on practical needs to be supplied like food, shelter, comfort that is not based on belonging to the "church" (and churches do offer these essential).

AND how do forums offer anything substantial? Must be the quality of information?

[Chester]

I am not making the following statement to back or oppose any of the views expressed in the last few posts.

I ask this... If I tell a story that involves another that paints that other in a bad light, what recourse can the other have? What if my story is not the truth or the whole truth? What if there is subjectivity in the story? (subjectivity - Interpretation of events as opposed to simply stating the actual facts of the events).

So my sad point is - isn't this why justice systems have developed? And I say sad because we know these justice systems are easily corruptible.

[Aianawa]

Knowing, Intuition, feelings. Then you can also be wrong as such but only by another, other, outside of oneself. Taken further if one has responsibilities, family, friends etc that may draw consequences from your action, catch 22 may apply.