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Thread: Let's Get Into It: Trump

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    The guest's point about the thousands dead in Iraq and Afghanistan was strange. They were war deaths, not terrorist attacks. We chose to respond to 9/11 by invading Afganistan.
    I didn't watch all of the videos you're referencing to above, but the US killed some crazy amount of civilians in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Not that this is anything new for the US to have innocent civilian blood on its hands, from Nicaragua to Vietnam to Bosnia. One thing can be painted as a terrorist attack and another thing can be painted as "collateral damage," but either way in real terms we've paid back the innocent deaths several times over.

    As far as religion goes, though they might not ban it outright, I could see them pushing an outrage against religious fanaticism in general and using that as leverage to limit its influence in society.
    Last edited by bsbray, 15th December 2015 at 07:51.

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    ERK, how in the world can people think they can ban religion? In America?

    It's clear to me that leaders here have taken actions to whip up religious frenzy, especially among Muslims. Is the plan to follow this with a ban? "There's no way to know who's a moderate in any religion so for the 'safety' of everyone there's going to be a moritorium on religious practice." Is that the idea?

    Anyone here remember Ben Franklin? I for one am tired of watching Americans give up freedom for security. (Patriot Act, etc.)

    No idea how- this was told to me by my mother and came directly from someone at the top of the pyramid. I don't see how it would work as extremists would go underground. I am sure my mother (who does not have the IG of the person who told her) was just given that small piece of information and relayed it to me when we started discussing Islam and so on.

    Edited to add- the other piece of info I was given related to the intelligence level of immigrants.

    Trump was always an arrogant dunce IMO but then again there are many wealthy dunce like men such as himself.
    Last edited by ERK, 15th December 2015 at 18:08.

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    In terms of the Ban Religion issue. ERK, do you know if the move to selectively ban religious movements (like the Tea Party or Patriot movements) or a broad and general ban on religion in all forms?

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    Quote Originally posted by lcam88 View Post
    In terms of the Ban Religion issue. ERK, do you know if the move to selectively ban religious movements (like the Tea Party or Patriot movements) or a broad and general ban on religion in all forms?

    A ban on all religion is deemed an only solution, as to how this is carried out- I have no idea how they propose an all and all ban.

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  9. #20
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    I see the Tea Party and Patriot groups as political rather than religious. Of course religion is a big part of their identity. My brother is atheist. His religions are politics and patriotism. He doesn't self-identify w/these groups, though.

    I doubt there's any accurate 'statement' that can be made about the intelligence of immigrants. When everyone suddenly has to leave their town or city, you've got all levels of intelligence becoming immigrants.

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  11. #21
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    No disrespect intended jimmer, but what get's me about these types of threads is that they are generally critical of only the conservative/Republican side/candidates as if the liberal/Democratic side/candidates were somehow superior. I've seen far fewer posts in forums (and elsewhere) that are critical of the liberal/Democratic side/candidates which makes me wonder just how “awake and aware/enlightened” we've become.

    However, and having said that, my real concern is that I thought most of us have figured out by now that our "choices" have already been picked for us and that there really are no appreciable differences between the two primary parties (i.e., Republican and Democrat; and I'm talking about their actions when in office and not their theoretical/philosophical differences that they use to lull the masses). Do we really suppose that it makes any significant difference whether a Democrat or Republican gets selected, er, um, I mean, “elected” when TPTB have already “groomed” our “candidates” for the “job?”

    And, in case you're wondering, I'm neither a Republican or Democrat and I'm certainly no Trump fan. In fact, I think he's an arrogant, egotistical, self-absorbed, bigot (and I'm being kind). It amazes me that millions of American's think he's what this country needs to “lead” us. However, the words I would use to describe Hillary are not nearly as flattering and I'm even more amazed (saddened really) that millions more think she would make a good President. How mind-controlled, dumbed-down have we become?

    The powers-that-be must be having one hell of a good laugh at just how easy it is to manipulate us and keep us falling for the same old "divide and conquer" games they play. They divide us in so many ways via politics, religion, race, sex, intelligence, occupation, financial status, etc.). Is there really any wonder why this country (and the world) is in the state it's in when we continue to fall for their same games that keeps us divided and enslaved year after year, decade after decade, century after century? It would be laughable if it wasn't so pathetic.

    I don't even know why we pretend to believe the candidates have real "debates" when election after election the majority of the same issues are "debated." Exactly how many decades do you think it should take for them to resolve these same problems–assuming, of course, that they really wanted to resolve them? Yes, they change the catch phrases, the enemies, and move some topics in and out each election to keep the clueless from realizing it's the same stories and convinced that things have changed and that there are new threats and problems to be solved. IMHO, anyone who's been paying any attention at all for the past 30-50 years should be able to tell pretty easily that we're still essentially dealing with the same "problems." But, by God, the Democrats, or the Republicans--depending on your political bent, will fix them for us (this time). LOL! How f@#$ing stupid are we? When do we begin to wake up to the games being played and choose to not play anymore?

    I'm sorry if I've stepped on any toes here, but it is extremely disheartening to me when I see the supposed "awake and aware/enlightened" ones still falling for the same traps. It makes me feel like there really is no hope for humanity.

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    I agree with everything you've posted, CeeTee, except that I think in this particular election cycle these candidates are not all representing the same factions behind the scenes and there really is some kind of power play going on. I think the biggest indication of this is how quickly Jeb Bush seems to have fallen out of the early running, even though going into the campaign season he was being petted by the mainstream media as if he would be the unstoppable next republican candidate (and probably would have been if things had played out differently). The Bush family has a history that goes a lot deeper than just politicians, and that history is tied into an intelligence, banking, drug-running and oil cartel that is being hit hard in Europe, the Middle East, Russia, and now apparently also in the US. The Clintons are tied into that same group though, so Hilary would be just as bad, if not worse.

    So in short, even though I think our elections are totally rigged here in the US (as in most countries), I also think there are some real intrigues going on behind the scenes that are influencing what we are seeing on the surface in MSM. And I'm half-following the developments just for that reason, though I still have no idea who Trump is taking orders from.

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  15. #23
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer
    I see the Tea Party and Patriot groups as political rather than religious.
    Indeed.

    I have had the pleasure of close(r) contact with the Patriot groups. I even read the UCC for good measure and could argue points... hmmm

    It certainly is political, but if you don't understand the underpinnings, you must base your political position on faith.

    Furthermore, even understanding the underpinnings, and understanding why the system (legal financial etc) works in ways that can be interpreted as un-lawfully, that then creates the requirement of an element of faith that at some point the actual law and constitution will be upheld.

    The reason I include the Patriot movements in a religious category is exactly because of that element of faith that is required. The reality is that justice is not about upholding the law as much as it is about maintaining the status-quo. If the status-quo happens to be unlawful then that is the way it is.

    Try interpreting the law (or orders) to a superior officer; that is literally the problem faced; ultimately it is misplaced faith IMO. Another example of systematic declension from individual thinking. In a perfect world...

    It is quite well stated as a Murphy's Law: "A .44 beats 4 Aces"

    CeeTee9:

    I have come to question whether Democrats actually stand for Liberalism and whether Republicans are conservative. There has been a lot of flip-flopping of values; it is perfectly reasonable to mistake them as "the same", as I do [intentionally].

    During the primaries they tend to be bit more radical to appeal to their party base. After the primary candidates tend to move to the center, a type of identity limbo of sorts.

    Quote Originally posted by CeeTee9
    I think he's an arrogant, egotistical, self-absorbed, bigot (and I'm being kind).
    All that?

    Donald could just be the Clinton Trump card. He has polarized everyone supporting the Republicans and created such a disarray that they might as well hold the actual election during the Democratic nomination.

    I mean, how can he de-fascist-ize his position to latinos and black-americans? He need only focus on his sell to "Make America great again", to these groups. He will likely focus on creating jobs and defeating the invisible enemy (china) and focusing on fixing the hurts by shrinking government, reducing taxes and fighting corruption. Incidentally, that is probably more conservative and more Republican what most Republicans are pushing.

    If he cannot genuinely do that, there is no way Trump can credibly make "the move to the center" that is the orthodoxy for the post nomination election period.

    Personally, I think Make America Great Again is sellable. It is all about bringing about productivity, about movement, and about being straight about it. That has been a metaphor in Trumps campaign so far. It would have been less authentic without the arrogance, egoistic, self-absorbed bigotry.

    Everyone can find a way to accept the bigot as long as the bigot is doing your bidding.

    Quote Originally posted by bsbray
    I also think there are some real intrigues going on behind the scenes that are influencing...
    Indeed.

    Once must only gleen the JFK thing.

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    Part of my realizing that the political process is a kabuki dance was coming to the realization that in the military biz, military secrets were such, i.e. we knew the secrets and our "enemies" knew the secrets, but the general public did not. A few of us even used the term "kabuki dance" in reference to the public's ignorance.

    I'm now pretty convinced that every election since Eisenhower has been rigged to some extent, and perhaps his and earlier "elections" were as well. Carter may have been some sort of deviation from "the norm," but he was quickly negated.

    Enjoy the show.

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    now this thread is getting interesting.

    many great thoughts and theories abound.

    for me, trump represents a 'reset.'

    lots of us have had the same epiphany: both major parties have morphed into opposing pie-splitters.

    both parties now argue over who controls and reaps from the same pie.

    reform? that doesn't enter the conversation these days.

    trump, for all his bombast and provoking, is his own man, for the good or the bad.
    many believe he represents their discontent and rejection of what looked like another predicable political outcome.

    people are willing to gamble on a winner, this bull in the political china shop, to break the elite glass bubble.

    nowadays many good people want a political reset. trump represents that.

    talking about that reset, read this:

    http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/US-.../17/id/706171/
    Last edited by jimmer, 17th December 2015 at 14:29.

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  21. #26
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    +1 to enjoy the show.

    +1 to political reset. We will have to see how that goes. Somehow, even if Trump does win on his own money, I doubt he can really afford to ignore catering to special interests. When he announces his running mate, whom I predict will be a chip off the old block of the embedded special interest crowd, we will see that really the reset hasn't happened.

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  23. #27
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    Quote Originally posted by bsbray View Post
    I agree with everything you've posted, CeeTee, except that I think in this particular election cycle these candidates are not all representing the same factions behind the scenes and there really is some kind of power play going on. I think the biggest indication of this is how quickly Jeb Bush seems to have fallen out of the early running, even though going into the campaign season he was being petted by the mainstream media as if he would be the unstoppable next republican candidate (and probably would have been if things had played out differently). The Bush family has a history that goes a lot deeper than just politicians, and that history is tied into an intelligence, banking, drug-running and oil cartel that is being hit hard in Europe, the Middle East, Russia, and now apparently also in the US. The Clintons are tied into that same group though, so Hilary would be just as bad, if not worse.

    So in short, even though I think our elections are totally rigged here in the US (as in most countries), I also think there are some real intrigues going on behind the scenes that are influencing what we are seeing on the surface in MSM. And I'm half-following the developments just for that reason, though I still have no idea who Trump is taking orders from.
    You could very well be right, bsbray, and, if so, let's hope that the infighting results in the PTB's demise. But I seriously doubt that will happen as the groups at odds with each other have far too much to lose if they don't find some common ground.

    Perhaps Bush's falling out of favor has more to do with them realizing that he would be a harder sell (for all the reasons you mentioned and more) in the court of public opinion than Trump. Maybe they see Trump's arrogance and divisive mentality as being more aligned with their objectives (e.g., as an easier sell to the conservative masses who are chafing at the bit for a "real" decisive leader/Gestapo-type ruler, or to make it easier for them to push Hillary to be the front runner). Regardless, if either of these two candidates "win" the election, we are going to be in for a very bad time, IMO.

    As for the MSM, they are just the PTB's puppets (as are the politicians) and will publish whatever they are told to publish. There are only six International mega-corporations that control 90% of all media outlets (and that was in the early 1980s. I believe there are only five now and they control an even larger share). Anyone who still believes the MSM are the "watchdogs" for the people are totally brainwashed and/or clueless. And don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the alternative media are the guardian's of truth either. All media organizations have been infiltrated and disseminate disinformation, misinformation and outright lies. It takes work to wade through all the crap in hopes of connecting sufficient dots that may shed some light on any real truth. It's a jungle out there.

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  25. #28
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    try to keep up with all the gov't agencies and heads mentioned,
    but the big picture and reason for this rant is that one-side of political aisle
    was given (took, imposed) everything they wanted for nearly 8 years.
    the result? americans are extremely ticked off.

    enter donald j. trump.


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  27. #29
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    Quote Originally posted by CeeTee9
    ...let's hope that the infighting results in the PTB's demise. But I seriously doubt that will happen as the groups at odds with each other have far too much to lose if they don't find some common ground.
    These guys don't really like to compromise. I think the majority of play we are going to see in regard to PTBs and their different agendas will land on a common ground of "saving face", at least with regards to differing agendas.

    If one side starts making mistakes, they will then take some big hits and eventually disappear. We are talking about geopolitics that include China and Russia here; the play-field is way beyond the demarkation of nations IMO. Joseph P Farrell at gizadeathstar.com has been following some aspects of this in a very insightful way.


    PS

    Jeb! is just out of touch with the electorate. He is acting as if relatively unstressed, whereas everyone else seems to be in the "anger and fight" stress phase. That may be a measure of the social circle in his midst vs the republican base.
    Last edited by lcam88, 17th December 2015 at 17:44.

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    Quote Originally posted by lcam88 View Post

    The video jimmer posted might better represent the mind state more people have, that aligns with the "anger and fight" stage of stress present in messages Trump is sending.
    sending or embracing?

    trump can see the state of affairs as well as people on the street.

    is he playing people?
    I don't think so.
    I believe he's reacting and acting on a palpable anger most americans have developed over the past decade or so.

    he's tuned in, not playing. he's acting, not manipulating.
    his independence allows him to swing for the bleachers.
    the other candidates are fronting their big money backers and represent business as usual.
    that's why trump continues to resinate.
    oh, and he's really smart. that always helps : )

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