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Thread: Does the Bock Saga lead on to The Lord Of The Rings?

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    I know that the thread is about how the Bock Saga leads on to the LOTR. My favorite parts of the whole was the Shire life of Hobbits. Maybe in a way it is the sense of living without strife? I have posted the same information I am bringing in this post elsewhere but thought it relevant and maybe interesting? There seems real interest in this forum for the topics I am pursuing.

    I am certain that overwhelming psychologic impacts of traumatizing assault (from catastrophes natural and man made) are humanity's challenge. I think that there was not ONE ELE episode but many. I have been investigating the history of these events. Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson have highlighted one around 13,000 years ago. IMO this was not the latest one that threw civilization into survival mode and had us trade our freedom for a safety net (though a misnomer).

    The following are some thoughts I have had about some historic influences and also where valuable continuing threads of information may be stored. I was reminded by the Oera Linda information of a recent dating 2193 BCE. This is very close to another date 3100 BCE that has been called the "Biblical Flood".

    The long time frame after the event 12,800 years ago to the approximate 2193 to 3100 BCE date is rather daunting to me. What I am interested in is evidence of threads of the qualitative that distinguished the Survivors and the Atlantis/Lemurian (I call them that) remnant cultures. I think that we have threads to gather.

    I think the LOTR shows one glimpse of the Pagan world and the gentleman/gentlewoman (i.e. Gentile, heathen) groups that did not lose their minds in Two or more catastrophes....

    THE FINGERPRINT OF A GLOBAL CATACLYSM 12,800 YEARS AGO



    The graphic shows the vast swathe of our planet that geologists call the Younger Dryas Boundary Field. Across this huge “fingerprint” spanning North America, Central America, parts of South America and most of Europe, the tell-tale traces of multiple impacts by the fragments of a giant comet have been found. Some of these fragments, were TWO KILOMETRES or more in diameter and they hit the earth like a blast from a cosmic scatter-gun around 12,800 years ago.December 4, 2014 at 1:36 pm
    The Fingerprint of Global Cataclysm 12,800 Years Ago – Graham Hancock – Magicians of The Gods Preview
    Daughter civilizations after 3100 BC in Egypt in South America and Africa and Europe have many similarities pointed out elsewhere in abundance....such as in this video: Berbers or Slavs? So much culture in common that they could not really be independent.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzt-leWyGwU


    I think that after 3100 BC, the offspring (several) civilizations started over again with help from Survivors. After the flood people still used the hydrologic works, megalithic structures and produced some beautiful and amazing works of art we have seen. But there was a difference in capacity and what we could do was less than before. Perhaps the great Survivor culture remained in the Russian Horde until wiped out by by ignorance as the Kali Yuga turned?

    Atlantis/Lemuria is what I will call the culture dating from before the precession time period of Taurus. Plato dates the destruction of Atlantis as being around 12,800 years ago as does Graham Hancock. I think the culture itself survived globally in pockets. Then we have something about the Age of Taurus that is not fully assessed.

    There was a flood in around 3100 BCE associated with sudden worldwide loss of civilization. It flooded all but high places where suddenly we have agriculture arise in the mountain areas.

    Bull veneration (Taurus) takes place among a high but IMO NOT megalithic culture after that period. I wonder if there is a link to the Taurid meteors in veneration of bulls?

    "I THINK": We have the daughter cultures of after the flood in around 3100 BC. I think that that is "our recorded history" Examples all over the world share common roots that are related to the remnants of the GREAT civilization from before the Great Flood. First we had the event 12,800 or so years ago, there was a sancturary in Hyperborea perhaps? Life continued and thousands of years passed....THEN I think we had the "Flood" that was a wipeout. In dating events, I think astrology/astronomy and geology will help us.

    The Taurean Age was the time of the "flood" we read about in our bibles. It was 5,000 years ago for the latest "catyclysm", not 12,000 years ago.

    The Age of Taurus
    Symbol for Taurus: Sacred bull

    Zodiacal sign: the vernal equinox (northern hemisphere) is occurring in Taurus;

    Timeframes
    Zodiacal 30 degrees:
    Neil Mann interpretation: began ca. 4300 BC and ended ca. 2150 BC
    Patrick Burlingame interpretation: began ca. 4006 BC and ended ca. 2006 BC
    Constellation boundary year:
    Shephard Simpson interpretation: began ca. 4525 BC and ended ca. 1875 BC

    Overview
    "The Age of Earth, Agriculture, and the Bull" This age is claimed to have occurred approximately around the time of the building of the Pyramids in Egypt.

    Religious similarities
    Bull worshiping cults began to form in Assyria, Egypt, and Crete during this mythological age.

    Ankh: thoracic vertebra of a bull - Egyptian symbol of life
    Worship of Apis, the bull-deity (see also Bull (mythology)), the most important of all the sacred animals in Egypt, said to be instituted during the Second Dynasty of the Early Dynastic Period of Egypt and worshipped in the Memphis region until the New Kingdom (16th century BC).
    When Moses was said to have descended from the mountain with the ten commandments (c. 17th – 13th century BC, the end of the Age of Taurus), some of his people or followers were found by him to be worshipping a golden bull calf. He instructed these worshippers to be killed. This represents Moses "killing" the bull and ending the Age of Taurus, and ushering in the Age of Aries, which he represents.
    In 3100 BC, during the age of Taurus serious catyclysmic events may have occurred from meteors known as the Taurid meteors.

    "The outrageous suggestion that I am going to make is that the Taurid Complex was producing phenomenal meteor storms between 4,500 and 5,000 years ago, accompanied by multiple Tunguska-class atmospheric detonations, and that Stonehenge I was designed to allow the (awestruck, terrified) culture of southern England to make observations of the Phenomena and to perhaps predict their recurrence. Peter Lancaster Brown, in his book on megalithic sites, wrote that "Eclipses, comets and meteorites were astronomical phenomena widely observed by the ancients. But probably only eclipses were predictable." (Steel means to imply that Stonehenge I was needed to make observations because meteorite falls are far more unpredictable, but and at the same time may be long-lasting and recurring. - TN.)

    Steel continues this theme in Peiser et al.: Natural Catastrophes (Oxford, 1998) by commenting that he sees no connection between the original Stonehenge I (built in 3100 BC) and the thousand year later Stonehenge II and Stonehenge III except the place. The original one was a scientific observatory, not for Sun, or Moon, or eclipses, but for watching dangerous meteorites, asteroids and comets. The later Stonehenges with their stones (the image of Stonehenge that we have of it today), was more that of a ritual and sanctuary than for any practical/scientific purpose. Of course it could be used for some trivial astronomical calculations (solstices, eclipses), but its original purpose was hardly known for the later builders. The world's first scientific astronomical observatory changed to a ritual place, because it was not anymore needed for its original purpose when the Taurids did not at that moment bother mankind, in fact the Taurids lived only in legends. Today the legends are coming part of a serious scientific study. What a change in paradigm!

    Rogue Asteroids: "Comet Encke is associated with the Taurid Complex. If we follow the orbit of P/Encke backward, we find that it intersected that of the Earth around 1,800 and 5,000 years ago (ascending) and 2,100 and 4,700 years ago (descending)."

    The Taurid complex is a comet/meteor swarm complex, whose main body is the periodic comet Encke with an unknown number of meteoroid swarms plus possibly some small body pieces. When the Taurid complex intersected Earth 5000 years ago, maybe around 3100 BC, it may have caused a 100 year long period of tunguskans and mini-tunguskans.

    Clube and Napier have already in their legendary "The Cosmic Winter" (Oxford (UK), Cambridge (US), 1990) told the Taurid story:

    "It seems clear that we are looking at debris from the breakup of an extremely large object. The disintegration, or sequence of disintegrations, must have taken place within the past twenty or thirty thousand years as otherwise the asteroids would have spread around the inner planetary system and be no longer recognizable as a stream.

    "The second discovery, due mainly to the Czechoslovakian astronomer Stohl, is that enveloping the Taurids, Comet Encke and these particular asteroids is a broad tube of meteoric debris. ... The Stohl stream is apparently double due probably to an exceptional fragmentation... The mass of the meteoric material within the Stohl stream is 10 or 20 billion tonnes. ... Adding in the mass of gas and very fine dust ... we find that the original body must have been about 100 kilometres across. ... Backtracking the orbits of Encke and Oljato, we find that 9500 years ago their orbits were nearly identical. It is possible there was a major disintegration of the prime body then, with much debris created of which Comet Encke and Oljato are the largest known bodies ... Oljato itself is in an orbit which brought it virtually into the Earth's orbital plane for some centuries around 3000-3500 BC."

    Was it Oljato's tail that swarmed Earth around 3100 BC? Did it have a partner or is Swift-Tuttle a part of a parent body of both or did the parent body disintgrate into three parts: Oljate, Swift-Tuttle and a third part that rained on Earth 13 August 3114 BC, the Mayan day zero?

    Darwin was not wrong while saying that evolution is the survival of the fittest, but today we must add that evolution is the survival of the fittest of the luckiest. The Third Millennium BC (3100-2100 BC)

    To understand as much of the threads as we can of the Survivor cultures on every continent together IMO could really help us reconnect to our human will. There are themes we can decipher that empower us.

    This interview with Klaus Dona is a classic (thank you Bill Ryan). I think he is showing artifacts maybe even dating to BEFORE the 12,800 event.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmMwo1Xzgus


    I am not attached to what Fomenko and others think are specific events but I think the history we learned has ignored the true global state of the world in the recent millenium. I think we can look to the same"kind" (BUT NOT AS GLOBAL OR INTENSE) of issues as with the cataclysm of 3100 BC.

    Woodcut commemorating 4TH CENTURY cometary evets from Stanilaus Lubienietski's Theatrum Cometicum (Amsterdam, 1668)


    I have a post here about the comets.

    MAYBE ITS COMETS COMETS COMETS all the way down??

    I consider this source of earth changes to be important because they were not always catastrophic but influenced people.

    Italy, 345 BCE: A ‘shower of stones rained down and darkness filled the sky during daylight’ (Livy 7, 28) and Rome contemplated the omen with considerable apprehension. In crucial matters of state such as this there was only one thing to do. They consulted the Sibylline Books, or Libri Sibillini, a collection of oracular utterances acquired by Tarquinius Superbus, the last king of Rome. The sacred texts were acquired from a sibyl, a Pagan priestess who prophesied at sacred sites while under the influence of drugs and the divine influence of a deity, often a woman of established social order, known reverently as a ‘bee goddess’..........

    ................Nearly one hundred and fifty years had passed since the last ‘shower of stones rained down’ on Rome, but return they did. The year was 205 BCE and the Second Punic War, known as the War Against Hannibal, was coming to a close. Reports were widespread of ‘frequently falling rocks’ in the region and the phenomenon was creating religious fervour throughout the land. The meteorites had returned.THE GODDESS WHO FELL TO EARTH
    Along with the Bull, there is also veneration of the Bee in the ancient Taurus time frame. The myths show that after the Flood, we had "ark"s and life ensuring qualities and technology were taught by holy people.

    I think that REAL and healthful spiritual veneration and connection to God/Goddess (meaning reverence, not necessarily worship) is of an earth based natural kind. Medicines, knowledge of agriculture, hygiene, animal husbandry was all a SACRED lifestyle of the Wise Ones. This was SYSTEMATICALLY attacked by the rulers. The Heathen world was destroyed.

    What about this legacy of evidence of veneration of the Bee? IMO there are sources to investigate that look at the way that the Bee and agriculture informed the remnants of Survivor cultures. I want just share some things that interested me about the bee and veneration across the world.

    LOST TRADITION OF THE SACRED BEE
    Incredibly, bees over 100 million years old have been discovered in amber, frozen in time, as if immortalized in their own honey. The Greeks called amber Electron, associated with the Sun God Elector, who was known as the awakener, a term also given to honey—which resembles amber—a regenerative substance revered across the ancient world. This association led to the bees’ illustrious status amongst ancient man, exalting their fossilized remains over the preserved vestiges of all other insects.

    Prehistory is full of clues that hint at ancient man’s obsession with bees. In the Cave of the Spider near Valencia in Spain, a 15,000-year-old painting depicts a determined looking figure risking his life to extract honey from a precarious, cliff-side beehive. Honey hunting represents one of man’s earliest hunter / gatherer pursuits—its very difficulty hinting at the genesis of the bee’s adoration in prehistory. And, of course, it was the bee that led ancient shamans to the plants whose hallucinogens transported their consciousness into the spirit world of the gods. Curiously, recent research has revealed that the sound of a bee’s hum has been observed during moments of change in the state of human consciousness, including individuals who have experienced alleged UFO abductions, apparitions, and near death experiences. Was this phenomenon known by the ancients and believed to have been one of the elements that made the bee special?

    Honey Hunting in Spain

    In Anatolia, a 10,000-year-old statue of the Mother Goddess adorned in a yellow and orange Beehive-style tiara has led scholars to the conclusion that the Mother Goddess had begun to morph into the Queen Bee, or bee goddess, around this time. At the Neolithic settlement of Catal Huyuk, rudimentary images of bees dating to 6540 BC are painted above the head of a Goddess in the form of a halo; and beehives are stylistically portrayed on the walls of sacred temples. Not surprisingly, it was the Sumerians who soon emerged as the forefathers of organized bee keeping. Mesopotamia—modern day Iraq—flourished from the early sixth century BC and is known as the cradle of civilization; and it is here that the Sumerians invented Apitherapy, or the medical use of bee products such as honey, pollen, royal jelly, propolis, and venom.

    Sumerian reliefs depicting the adoration of extraordinary winged figures have often been interpreted by alternative history writers as proof of extraterrestrial intervention. In the context of the benefits of beekeeping, it is more likely they depict the veneration of bees. Significantly, the Sumerian images gave rise to the dancing goddess motif, a female dancer with her arms arched over her head that scholars believe represents a bee goddess priestess or shaman. The motif, which would become central to Egyptian symbolism, appears to allude to the bee’s unique ability to communicate through dance, the waggle dance as it is known, or the ability to locate food up to three miles from home and return to communicate its whereabouts to the hive through dance, sort of prehistoric satellite navigation.

    So, society had discovered the immense value that bees provide, ten thousand years ago or more, back in the mist of prehistory. As life along the River Nile evolved and Dynastic rule in ancient Egypt slowly developed, the seeds of bee veneration had already been sown. But the tradition was about to be embraced like never before, or since.

    The Bee Goddess in Ancient Egypt

    Egyptologists, such as David Rohl, believe that Sumerian culture migrated across the Eastern Egyptian Desert and into the Nile Valley. This desolate expanse of Wadis is renowned for its pre-dynastic rock art depicting exalted-looking figures with exaggerated plume-like decorations. The unusual lines extending upwards from the main figures’ heads recall the antenna of the bee while hinting at the shape of the plumes that would characterize the headdress of Egyptian Kingship for thousands of years to come. The images also depict the Dancing Goddess motif, a woman with her hands bowed over her head just as the ‘dancing’ bee Goddess had been depicted in Sumerian and Central European reliefs thousands of years earlier. The icon is widespread in Egyptian mythology and appears to have originated from an understanding of the bee’s unique ability to communicate through ‘dance.’

    Another clue to the bee’s artistic influence can be found in ceremonial Egyptian dress, which has certain stylistic similarities with the bee, namely the headdress, or nemes, which consists of alternating yellow and dark horizontal stripes. This visual synchronicity is discernible in many reliefs and sculptures but is perhaps best illustrated in the death mask of the 18th Dynasty Pharaoh, Tutankhamen, which famously depicts the Pharaoh adorned in alternating black and yellow stripes or bands, just like a bee.

    The Egyptian Death Mask

    Egypt’s fascination with bees stems from the earliest of epochs. Northern Egypt, or the land stretching from the Delta to Memphis, was known as “Ta-Bitty,” or “the land of the bee.” King Menes, founder of the First Egyptian Dynasty, was bestowed with the office of “Beekeeper”, a title ascribed to all subsequent Pharaohs, and an image of the bee was positioned next to the Pharaoh’s cartouche.

    The Egyptian God Min was known as the ‘Master of the Wild Bees’ and dates to 3000 BC or earlier. Similarly, the Egyptian Goddess Neith was a warrior deity also possessing fertility symbolism and virginal mother qualities, all attributes of the Queen bee. In Sais, Neith was regarded as the Goddess of the ‘House of the Bee’ and the Mother of RA, the ‘the ruler of all’. Egyptian mythology contains countless references to bees, including the belief that they were formed from the tears of the most important god in its pantheon, RA. The bee is even featured on the Rosetta Stone.

    Bees are portrayed on the walls of Egyptian tombs, and offerings of honey were routinely presented to the most important Egyptian deities. Indeed, honey was the ‘nectar of the gods,’ and like the Sumerians before them, Egyptian physicians relied on its medicinal value for many important remedies and procedures, including early forms of mummification.

    One Egyptian monument that exhibits a peculiar form of bee symbolism is the Saqqara step pyramid, which recalls the six-sided shape of a bee’s honeycomb, with six levels above ground and one very special level below—the Apis bull necropolis known as the Serapeum. Egyptologists believe that the Apis bull was bestowed with the regenerative qualities of the Memphite god Ptah—the Egyptian god of reincarnation. They also believed that those who inhaled the breath of the Apis bull received the gift of prophesy; and perhaps most importantly of all, the Egyptians believed that the bull was transformed into Osiris Apis, after death. ‘Bee’ in Latin is ‘Apis’, which may have derived from Sipa / Asipa in Mesopotamia; Sipa meaning ‘Great Shepherd in the Sky’ and Apis meaning Osiris. This relates to the belief that after death, the Pharaoh’s soul joined Osiris as a star in the constellation of Orion.

    Legend tells us that an Apis bull produced 1000 bees, and that the bees represented souls. Intriguingly, the Egyptian Goddess Nut was the goddess of the sky—the domain of bees—and keeper of the title She Who Holds a Thou*sand Souls, which appears to refer to the 1000 bees—or souls—that are regenerated from the body of an Apis bull.

    Similarly, the Hebrew letter Alef | Aleph carries the meaning ‘thousand’ and both the Proto-Sinatic Hieroglyphic and its Pro-Canaanite symbol depict a bull’s head, alluding to the fact that 1000 bees—or resurrected souls, are produced by the sacrifice of an Apis bull. Additionally, Christ—the saviour archetype of Osiris, renowned for his resurrection, is written in Hebrew as ‘QRST’ and carries the value 1000.

    The ancient belief that bees were born of bulls leads me to think that the underground necropolis known as the Serapeum may have been a ritual center of regeneration designed to recycle souls from the heads of bulls, and not simply a mausoleum for bulls. Might the rituals carried out in the Serapeum represent the earliest form of Mithraism, the Roman mystery religion involving the ritualistic slaughter of bulls?

    Another ancient culture influenced by the ancient Egyptians was the Minoan, a civilization with close ties to the ancient Egyptians who were experts in beekeeping, a craft they later imparted to the Greeks. This leads us to another fascinating aspect of Egyptian bee symbolism; the Sphinx, the famed rock-hewn statue known by the Egyptians as Hun nb, but re-named Sphinx by the Greeks. How does all this relate to the bee? Quite simply, the Minoan word for bee was ‘sphex’ (Hilda Ransome, The Sacred Bee P64, 1937).

    So what can we conclude from this revelation? The civilization that educated the Greeks in the craft of beekeeping used the word ‘sphex’ to describe the bee—and the Greeks named the goddess-like rock statue ‘Sphinx’. Was the Sphinx already present when Menes first established Kingship and was it known that the Sphinx represented a bee goddess, hence the Pharaoh’s title, Beekeeper? The possibility is tantalizing, and given the Egyptians fascination with bees, not altogether far-fetched.

    The Lost Tradition

    The influence of Sumerian and Egyptian bee veneration spread to Greece, where Greek mythology depicted bees on the statues of their most important gods and goddesses and evolved the notion of bee Goddesses into the honored position of female bee shamans called Melissa’s, which later morphed into the sacred status of Sybil’s. In fact, the second temple at Delphi is said to have been made entirely by bees, and the great oracle stone resembling a hive encircled with bees.

    The Omphalos and Bee Veneration?

    The Romans practiced Mithraism, a secret religion predicated on the ritualistic slaughter of bulls that is reminiscent of Egyptian bull / bee rituals that were performed in the underground temple known as the Serapeum. Curiously, the practice appears to have been preserved in modern times in the controversial sport of Bullfighting, and many of Spain’s oldest bullrings are built on or near Mithras temples, confirming the association.

    Mayan culture venerated the bee and depicted gods in its image in their most sacred temples; and as far away as India religions adopted bee gods and goddess into their mythology. Even the Catholic Church incorporated the bee as a symbol of the Pope’s authority; evidence of which can be seen in Vatican City today.

    Beehive-styled stone huts were constructed in antiquity from Ireland to Africa, and many places in-between, such as Germany, where Heinrich Himmler, the most powerful man in Germany after Adolf Hitler, constructed the SS’s most sacred ritual chamber in the shape of a beehive in the basement of the 17th century Wewelsburg Castle.

    Political movements, such as Communism, drew upon the altruistic behavior exhibited in a beehive as a blueprint for their ideologies;while rulers such as Napoleon followed the tradition of their ancestors, in this instance, the long-haired Kings of France known as the Merovingian’s—believed by some to represent the bloodline of Christ—whose famous King Childeric was discovered buried with 300 bees made of solid gold.

    Precursor to the Fleur-de-lys

    Not only did Napoleon ensure that the symbol of the bee was infused in the decor and style of the royal court, and greater society, he adopted ‘The Bee’ as his own nickname. It is also believed that the bee was the precursor to the fleur-de-lys, the national emblem of France. The theory is supported by many, including the French physician, antiquary, and archaeologist Jean-Jacques Chifflet. In fact Louis XII, the 35th King of France, was known as ‘the father of the pope’ and featured a beehive in his Coat of Arms.

    And then there is the strange tale of Pierre Plantard, a Frenchman who in the later half of the 20th century promoted his association with the Merovingian’s and was regarded by some as the last direct descendant of Jesus Christ. Plantard claimed to have been a Grand Master of the Priory of Sion, a controversial society with considerable interests in the Merovingian lineages commissioned by Napoleon. Curiously, Plantard’s family crest featured both the fleur-de-lys and the bee, and he is purported to have written, ‘we are the beekeepers’ in his private correspondences.

    French Freemasonry soon spread to the United States of America, aided by early American forefathers such as Thomas Jefferson, who wrote passionately about the importance of bees, while others such as President George Wash*ington featured the beehive on his Masonic apron. In no uncertain terms, early American society borrowed many of its philosophical principles from Freemasonry, which had incorporated bee symbolism and themes into its rituals, and established its government on the orderly, stable and altruistic behavior exhibited in a beehive, like societies and movements before them had for thousand of years.

    An indication of the bee’s importance to early American forefathers is expressed in the fact that the entire Western Region of the United States was originally named Deseret (honeybee). Not surprisingly, folk culture embraced the bee, and the concept of ‘telling bees’ about the death of a loved one became common practice. The Austrian philosopher and esotericist Rudolf Steiner (1861 – 1925) wrote and lectured extensively on the bee and predicted its demise in just under a 100 years time, right about now. So too did Albert Einstein (1879 – 1955) predict the demise of the bee. The famed physicist is attributed with having said;

    “If the bee disappeared off the surface of the globe then man would only have four years of life left. No more bees, no more pollination, no more plants, no more animals, no more man.”
    Archaeologist Marija Gimbutas (1921 - 1994) writes of this passage by Porphyry: “...we learn that Artemis is a bee, Melissa, and that both she and the bull belong to the moon. Hence both are connected with the idea of a periodic regeneration. We also learn that souls are bees and that Melissa draws souls down to be born. The idea of a ‘life in death’ in this singularly interesting concept is expressed by the belief that the life of the bull passed into that of the bees.”

    How did these titles of Melissa for the Great Mother and her priestesses as Melissae come about? The Melissae may have inherited their title from an old order of nymphs - to this day the larva of bees are called nymphs! Priestesses of the Bee: The Melissae
    The Bee featured prominently in another ancient culture – the Dogon, a tribe from the West African region of Mali whose Nommo ancestors and Sirian mythology were made famous by Robert Temple in his book, The Sirius Mystery. The Dogon belief system is ancient, and until approximately 140 AD, its zodiac featured the Bee as the symbol of the constellation presently occupied by Libra. The Bee’s position in the Dogon Zodiac is significant to esoteric thought leaders such as Cabalists, who recognize the Bee’s role in establishing balance and harmony in the zodiac – and in life. Curiously, two of the most common Dogon symbols resemble schematized figures identified by Marija Gimbutas as Bees; one is associated with vital food supplies and the other with reincarnation. Together, the Dogon images reflect the essence of the Bee’s perceived value in ancient times.THE BEE: PART 1 – BEEDAZZLED


    Goddess wearing a beehive tiara from Turkey, circa 8000 BC


    Pythia – the ‘Delphic Bee’ sitting on the Delphic Tripod Cauldron


    Minoan Bee Goddess laden with honey


    Beekeeping in Russian Forests

    We think in this age of beekeeping as a small time pursuit for either the small business or for some form of esoteric pass-time. In the past bee-keeping was anything but that. As an industry in Eastern Europe it probably reached a climax around 1200-1400. The reason that Eastern Europe was probably much better at producing honey than the west was simply that it had larger relatively undisturbed forests…. Or at least the forests had a smaller head of both human and domesticated animal population. Large quantities of grazing will eventually produce grass, whereas a smaller quantity of grazing will induce flowering ground cover and ideal areas for bees.





    The Germans in classical times used to venerate their beekeepers (this reference I can not find) and they achieved a priest like significance within their tribes. I could never quite get my head around this until I understood the economic significance of honey as well. Most of the following comes from Studies in Historical Geography (1983 Volume 1 (Academic Press) edited by Bater and French). The particular essay is Russians and the Forest by R.A. French p23-44.

    French talks of the vast quantities of berries that could be picked by the peasants of Russia with productive areas producing up to 100kg/hectare of berries (bilberries and cowberries) per year as well as up to half a ton of mushrooms etc. However the honey was the most impressive with one village in 1599, Oreshenko in Belorussia having 1044 “bee-trees” listed in their records. 94 were oak and 950 were pine. 99 swarms were counted with an occupancy of roughly 10:1. In other parts the occupancy got as high as 6:1.

    Bees made it into the Russian law books in the 12th century when the law codes, Russaya Pravda, were produced. In 1529 Lithuanian statutes also laid don laws against bee-tree destruction, determining that you could not go too close when ploughing or damage the tree by fire. In economic terms bees provided the most valuable forest resource and was one of the key drivers to eventual Russian expansion into Siberia.

    Just how important was this industry? It was a major trading commodity in both Russia and Lithuania. As an example one nobleman, one Prince Suyatoslav of Kiev, had a honey store, in 1146, that totalled 500 berkovtsy, or 80 tonnes. At some times peasants were supposed to give half their honey takings to the crown in Russia, so honey became the business of everyone from peasant to csar.

    In some areas peasants were employed to look after the crown’s bee-trees, and even in making new ones. (This was done by hacking out appropriate hollows in the trees.) The volume of honey produced was one thing but also beeswax was bought and sold as well. In the sixteenth century Customs Rolls of boats going down the river Neman to Konigsberg 600tonnes of beeswax was recorded as having passed by in just 6 weeks. Even in the 18th century the trade continued with the expansion towards the south and east and prime honey lands were moving east and south with the expansion. At that time the Province of Voronezh was exporting 900tonnes of honey per year. It was thus not really difficult to see why both the peasant and the aristocracy were interested in bees.

    With the expansion of Russia in the 16th to 20th centuries one finds the forest quality of the interior diminishing and thus the bee-farming being pushed more often than not towards the frontiers. Here the “natural” (I am not a fan of this word as it implies no human interference, which is rubbish) forest was less disturbed and the berries still proliferated and thus was the perfect bee place. The more livestock the less bees I am assuming.

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    In my researh that led to the post above, I have thought about the role of comets in general and catastrophobia in the collective as a partial theme for "forgetting" our expanded sense connection with earth and one another (becoming withdrawn and individual). The focus IMO shifted from intentional cooperation with nature to control over. we lost awareness of elementals, being in tune with and harmonizing with nature, maintaining community health with a focus on organic breeding (a positive and nurturing theme). From the Bock Saga, the SAME language concerning the breeding system now appears as a description of making war.

    Ior bock told in 1984 already that there was a civilization before the ice time. Now they have scientific proof, which they can not deny anymore. But this is just the beginning, because the funny thing is that this age old society ( what the Bock Saga is about )functioned in a complete different way than ours, but that all the customs are still found in our language. Take for example the word “infanterie” we think immediately, army unit. But the word comes from Root language and there the word infant = child erie = the planting of an oak tree.

    The oak tree was the symbol of the human, so infanterie means literally the organisation for the making of children. That is something else than the killing of children.

    §14: lansier is also a military term that means nowadays ” knight with lans “, as the famous Lancelot ( an English hero who used his lance a lot ) . In Root lansier means : he that makes children with his lans (penis). Take the word “militair”. In Root: eater of meal ( mil etér ). Every man used every morning his arm to let his “i” spit. The letter “i” means in Root: penis. The dot on the i = the sperm. He thus used his arm to masturbate and next to eat his sperm (armi). Every man in the ancient times started the day with the eating of this meal ( meal eater = mil etér = militair ). In the infanterie though, the militair sacrificed this meal to the lancier, whom got sperm from the whole regime, with which he made the kar woman pregnant. This woman also had the sav or mahla ( the juice which a healthy woman produces when she comes ) of all the women in the regime inside her.

    § 15: In the heathen (pagan) time ( hedning = from the head ) every woman and every man started the day with an orgasm, after which the man swallowed his sperm and the woman swallowed her mahla. Before the making of a child they used this mil etér system, in which they used their “weapons” to create. The making of children went completely different than nowadays ( was a completely different procedure ).

    You hear now that more and more marriages fall apart. It seems family-life is disappearing. nowadays it is mother and child. Dad is far away ( out of sight ), men use their weapons to destroy. If somebody aims his bow and arrow on you, you get shocked. If the arrow goes through you, you are dead. But Cupido had a bow and arrow, with which he did not kill, but he made children. Every weapon always has two opposing associations. Look at the English with their pis tol Root: tool to ****, if the Englishman is enough he can shoot his load. He uses his artillerie. In Root language: ART = human species, the letter i stands for penis. Le means “smile”, Le you pronounce as in the French “soleil” (sun). Only if you say LE your mouth smiles ( SU means mouth in Van or Finnish ). So Soleil means literally smiling mouth. RIE means repeatment. ART-I-LE-RIE is thus the human being that comes smiling everyday and gives his load to the infanterie.

    Offering system, Sauna knot

    § 16: All weapons have this erotic meaning. When I say that he has a canon in his trousers, everybody knows what I mean. Still we always choose the destructive side. That is for real, the rest is sign language. In the pagan times they needed an army of at least 11111 men, though, whom gave their sperm to the Lancier to make ONE child. But also 11111 women that donated their juices to the future mother. In total 22224 humans ( including the man and the woman that in the end totally loaded **** to make the child ). It could be much more, because everybody could co-operate to the future child. Such a child has thus many parents. Everybody feels this way in a way responsible for a child because they part-take physically in his or her being.

    § 17: You understand that I became dizzy when I first heard this. It sounded unbelievable. Ior told me that every child from its seventh year on learned to take its’ genitals in the mouth. You have to be quite supple for this. If you learn this from your seventh year though, it is difficult to get rid of, of course. Every morning every woman and man would suck her/himself. What a way to start your day. Not a doip of this treasured moist would get lost.

    The military system to make children works as follows. Every regime ( I am not going to explain every word now, otherwise we will get stuck, but you can count on that in Root it all has to do with the making of children ), existed of 1000 men, parted in divisions of ten. The lowest range existed from ten Rondeliers, they were wearing a red pointy hat and had a white cord with on one side a sort of little noose on the other side a knot. The rope fitted exactly in between two stretched arms. They collected sperm from the CIVIL (seed-carriers), yes civilization means seed-carriers. If the time to make children came again, you could visit such a Rondelier. Instead of taking your own penis in your mouth, you put it in his mouth and you offered your sperm.

    § 18: Not everybody was destined to make children though. The Rondelier would look first at what kind of penis you had, if you had a lans or a club. A lans has a thick base and the head is thin. You see this best when you do not have an erection. If you do have an erection you can have a sword or a sable, straight or crooked. If you have a club it can be big or small. A big one is called “slegge” – that is where our word sledgehammer is derived from. You need two hands to hold it. Men with a lans do not have the right to offer in this fertilizing system.

    Frej månne, Gotland
    Frej, Gotland

    Only the clubs belong to this club. The lances make the children in the end. If the Rondelier was sucking a club donor and received his sperm, he would get the cord and would make a knot. The distance between two knots would show the length of the penis. If he sucked ten he would go to the Rondasier to give him his semen. The Rondasier would receive the semen of 11 men at once. After that he would get the cord, untie the knots braid a yellow thread inside. After that the Rondelier could start again.

    § 19: If you have collected the sperm of ten men, then your sperm has turned more yellow. The yellowier the cord, the more sperm he would have gotten. The Rondasier would get 11 men per shot inside. If he had 10 X 11 inside he would go to the Capten ( = the head in which 10 Rondasiers load their semen ). Every Capten (captain) gets thus the seed of 1110 men. With this he goes to the Hillebardier or Översten. Översten ( over ten ) would get all the yellow sperm of ten captens.

    You see: this has nothing to do with war anymore. We live with the vision that war is part of the history of mankind. With the Bock Saga we see that war is something from the last few thousand years, but that there is a huge era before that in which all these words and expressions are being associated with something else. Old stories from famous cultures, in which weapons and soldiers took part, are mostly symbolic and are wrongly, because always violently explained presently. Soldier means Sol Diare – drinker of the soul (sperm).Million Years of Peace
    1. The beginning of our "recorded" (therefore being recorded, it has been artificially shaped) history at around 3100 BCE. This was the reset after global series of catyclysm

    3,200 BC- 3,100 BC.



    According to Duncan Steele four comets one month apart made terrestial orbit intersections with the Earth in 3,100 BC.



    One theory states that the comet Proto-Encke made its closest pass to the Earth in 3,100 BC.



    Clube and Napier postulate that between 3,500 BC and 3,000 BC an asteroid known as Olijato had repeated close encounters with the Earth. Clube and Olijato thought that Olijato was a fragment of a larger comet that broke up around 4,000 years earlier.





    Around 3,150 BC there was a massive electromagnetic surge in the earth’s atmosphere that effected the earth’s magnetic field. This could have been caused by a collision with a cosmic body.



    Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Atlantic Ocean.


    Between 3,200 BC and 3,000 BC there were two centuries of rapid drying and cooling as Atlantic Ocean circulation apparently shut down again. The Gulf Stream may have stopped again.



    Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Australia. Northern Territory.



    The Henbury Meteorite Crater is in the Northern Territory of Australia and is five hundred feet wide and is dated to 3,100 BC.



    Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Azores.



    There was massive vulcanism in the Azores around 3,100 BC.



    Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Babylon.



    Berosus the Chaldean or Babylonian historian wrote about the Great Flood and that it occurred on the 15th day in the month of Daisios or June 15th 3,116 BC.



    Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. China.



    Chinese mythology mentions that the Emperor Fu Hsi arrived after the Great Flood which occurred around 2,950 BC.

    Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Egypt.



    Professor Ioannis Liritzis of the University of Rhodes in the Greek Islands found evidence that a comet hit the Mediterranean Sea in 3,150 BC.



    Egyptologist Peter Clayton gives a starting date of 3,150 BC for the beginning of Egyptian civilization.



    Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Egypt. Sinai Peninsula. 34.00e,



    29.00n. 34e29n.



    The plateau of the Sinai Peninsula is covered with formations of basalt lava. There are also wide stretches of the Arabian Desert that also glisten with lava. Lava formations interspersed with extinguished volcanoes stretch from the vicinity of Palmyra in Jordan southward into Arabia as far as Mecca. These volcanoes only became extinct a few thousand years ago. Was this last occurrence during one of the Cataclysms?



    There are also vast fields of burnt sharp stones here on what was fertile well watered land prior to the appearance of the strange stones. This is the same as in Arabia, which is just across the Gulf of Aquaba.



    The Sinai Desert is today covered with blackened stones that are scattered across the landscape and for which there is no known reason unless it is the Biblical one. At Har Karkom, Jebel Ideid, a sacred mountain community dating back to 3,000 BC, there are many boulders several feet in size that have been mysteriously blackened and on which numerous ancient travelers have etched signs and symbols. The rocks are blackened only on the surface.



    On the large mountain plateau of Har Kerkom, also in Sinai, the top is covered in an expanse of black stone fragments known to the locals as hamada. In some places in ancient times the hamada layer has been cleared to form what are called hut circles.

    The blackened rocks in the Sinai resemble volcanic rocks but there are no volcanoes in the area now.



    Cataclysm2: 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. England.



    A dust veil event happened in Ireland and England. This is the abrupt appearance of massive amounts of ash in the atmosphere. This is from tree rings from the period of 3,100 BC. There is increased cosmic dust falling.





    Cataclysm2: 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Greenland.



    An ice core recovered from Camp Century showed an acidity spike which indicated that there was a large increase in falling ash world wide in 3,100 BC.



    Cataclysm2: 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Iceland.



    There was a peak in vulcanism in Iceland in 3,100 BC at Mount Hiemay. This was coincidentally with vulcanism in the Azores at the same time due south of Iceland?



    Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. India.



    In the Vishnu Purana there is mention of the lost city of Dwarka which was governed by Krishna which was thought to have been on a large island off the northwest coast of India. Dwarka was submerged by a suddenly rising ocean at the dawn of the Age of Kali which according to the Vishnu Purana was in 3,102 BC.



    Other Indian scriptures mention the submerged city of Mahabilipuram that was totally swallowed up by the sea in a great flood. This city was a copy of the palace of the Gods which its architect and ruler had visited. The Great god Indra commanded the submerging of the city by convening all of the other dieities of Heaven to call down watery judgement on the blasphemous inhabitants. Mahabilipuram meant “City of the Great Giant”.



    Cataclysm2: 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Ireland.



    A dust veil event happened in Ireland and England. This is the abrupt appearance of massive amounts of ash in the atmosphere. This is from tree rings from the period of 3,100 BC. There is increased cosmic dust falling.



    Tree rings in Ireland indicate enormous ashfall around 3,150 BC.



    According to Mike Baillie, a dendrochronologist at Queens University in Belfast in Northern Ireland there was a major temperature trough worldwide around 3,150 BC. Baillie had constructed an Irish bog oak dendochronology spanning the period from 5,000 BC to 1,000 AD. The Irish bog oaks showed a pattern of narrow rings, indicating extremely minimal growth, around 3,150 BC. In fact the rings were so narrow that Baillie could barely measure them indicating that weather conditions had been catastrophic. These narrow rings covered most of the 1,620s and unlike a major volcanic eruption lasted almost a decade. Even the largest volcanic eruptions only produce nuclear winter conditions for around three years. Baillie then compared his bog oak data against Greenland ice cores and a number of dates lined up indicated by ice core acid layers. These major weather events, much larger than volcanic induced nuclear winter conditions, occurred within thirty years of 210 BC, fifty years of 1,120 BC, ninety years of 3,150 BC and one hundred years of 4,400 BC. When new data was published in 1987 it showed another major acid layer within twenty years of 1,645 BC.



    Cataclysm2: 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Israel.



    For no known reason the Dead Sea rose 300 feet around 3,100 BC.



    Cataclysm2: 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Mediterranean Sea.



    The direction of the Earth’s magnetic field abruptly changed in 3,150 BC when a comet hit the Mediterranean Sea.



    Professor Ioannis Liritzis of the University of Rhodes in the Greek Islands found evidence that a comet hit the Mediterranean Sea in 3,150 BC.





    Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Mexico.



    The Mayan calendar was founded on August 10th 3,113 BC by Kukulkan the great Civilizer. Other sources state August 12th. In Egypt this date when Gods and men sailed from their sinking island home and arrived in the Nile Delta was around 3,100 BC. The Babylonians had a date of 3,116 BC when Oannes the fish headed god arrived and brought civilization to Sumeria. Incidentally in Indian Mythology, from India, Dwarka was submerged by a suddenly rising ocean at the dawn of the Age of Kali which according to the Vishnu Purana was in 3,102 BC.



    Kukulkan arrived after the “Hun yecil” the Drowning of the Trees which covered the world.



    Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Peru.



    Glaciologist Lonnie Thompson has accumulated evidence that indicates that there was a major change in Earth’s climate approximately 5,200 years ago. By studying plants released by the Quelccaya Ice cap in the Peruvian Andes Thompson found by carbon dating them that they were suddenly buried alive by ice around 3,200 BC. How accurate is carbon dating though?



    Around 3,150 BC the climate of Peru changed suddenly from that of a warm and wet and tropical climate to a different climate that was colder, dryer and less tropical. The Aspero pyramids were built at this same time.



    Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Sri Lanka.



    The Tamil people of Sri Lanka and southern India remember their ancestors coming to Sri Lanka after their island kingdom called Nawalam perished in the sea a long time ago.



    Cataclysm2: 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Taiwan.



    Massive flooding in Taiwan forced Austronesians who are members of an archeological group called the Dawenkou and inhabited Shandong and Jiangsu to leave Taiwan and travel south to the Philippines. These are the ancestors of the proto-Malay groups of people and languages.
    Proofs of Catyclysms.
    2.The themes of cattle (like sacred Bull) and sacred bees appear to me as possibly contrasting symbolic elements? Does it denote the nomadic versus "settled" life styles? That is just one possible way they show polarity.

    I think that this struggle, strife, protection and defense and warring came out of FEAR, severe deprivation and loss. It may have awakened desire to control (from catastrophobia's reactions). The power of self regulation must have felt lost IMO. IMO THAT led to a need to "regulate". There would have been a need to regroup and terror and hardship unbelievable.

    Thanks for letting me share this interest here. Maggie
    Last edited by Maggie, 26th November 2015 at 06:21.

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    Senior Member Novusod's Avatar
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    Maggie:
    Ior bock told in 1984 already that there was a civilization before the ice time. Now they have scientific proof, which they can not deny anymore. But this is just the beginning, because the funny thing is that this age old society ( what the Bock Saga is about )functioned in a complete different way than ours, but that all the customs are still found in our language. Take for example the word “infanterie” we think immediately, army unit. But the word comes from Root language and there the word infant = child erie = the planting of an oak tree.
    Essentially Ior Bock is correct but this example is not. In the root language an "erie" is a bird.

    For example infant erie is could be ducklings or chicks following their mother.


    Don't the ducklings appear to be marching in formation the same as human Infantry units?
    NOW it makes sense.

    The root language is a very visual language. They just didn't just say things. They saw things and used their 3rd eye to come up with abstractions. Some military commander in ancient times could have said to his men "You are my ducklings and follow me as the chicks do." Instead of using the word duckling he said "Infant Erie" and the men knew what he was talking about. The term then became infantry and the original meaning of the term was lost over time. It is not so much a malevolent twisting but a forgetting of our root language.


    Take the word “militair”. In Root: eater of meal ( mil etér ). Every man used every morning his arm to let his “i” spit. The letter “i” means in Root: penis. The dot on the i = the sperm. He thus used his arm to masturbate and next to eat his sperm (armi). Every man in the ancient times started the day with the eating of this meal ( meal eater = mil etér = militair ).
    Milit in the root language is "grain." Millet is the oldest cereal crop grown since the dawn of agriculture. It is where the surname "Miller" comes from. Miller doesn't mean military, it means grain. A militair would simply be a farm hand or harvester. The harvest would be brought in with a sickle. After which the seeds would be split from the chaff. The "i" does mean split but it is referring to the splitting of grain seeds from the stalks. You can't eat the stalks but they did eat the grain. After the grain was separated the women would grind the grain and mix it with yeast to make bread.

    There are quite a few sayings in old sagas about the great warriors cutting their foes down like wheat stalks. The hero felled the enemy like so much chaff stalks. I believe the analogy to be fairly literal in that the warriors were using their farm tools to hack down their foes as if they were harvesting millet. Eating sperm doesn't make any sense but eating grain does. They military men were millet harvesters when they weren't at war.

    In Egypt the sickle sword was called a Khopesh and it evolved directly from farm implements.

    It was also noted by the Romans that the barbarians of Europe were still using curved sickle swords. It hearkens back to the old concept the farm hand as warrior that existed before professional armies. After wars it was common for swords to be turned back into farm implements. Farming, fighting, and eating grain were all linked together by the word "millet" which was the main cereal crop of the root people.
    Last edited by Novusod, 27th November 2015 at 10:19.

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    Super Moderator Norway Elen's Avatar
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    Thanks for “ducking in” Novusod, good clarification, pun intended. Also another clarification, the Finnish language is Van language, not Root language. Root language is the inner circle, and Van the outer circle. I.e. it’s a derivation from, and not the same as. I can say that, because I understand the Root language, the Van language not a single word.

    Elen
    Whatever is true. Whatever is noble. Whatever is right. Whatever is lovely. Whatever is admirable. Anything of excellence and worthy of praise. Dwell on these things. Jesus Christ (I agree)

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    Senior Member Jengelen's Avatar
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    I find it interesting that there is evidence of a 'groin holding' cult from Gobekli Tepe to Easter Island to South America and some of the information provided by Ior Bock seems to make sense of how and why this groin cult would have existed. If one were to tie the two together you can see a baby making cult with some worship of a god holding his penis in places at all these geographic locations. Someone had to take it there by sea. Gee I wonder who?

    Further, if we follow cutlery in the Himalayas and beyond what did they make famous? The Khukri which is nothing more than a take off of the sickle, a farm implement. I guess I see no reason to suspect that some sex cult could accompany farmers. Even in society today various subsets exist within each segment of society. So it stands to reason there would be some deviance or perhaps to them it was normal but you what I mean. I doubt the story about the boys and girls sucking themselves off. That seems too twisted in someone else's idea not realistic. I would imagine it was involving some cult of worship that somehow twisted itself into that. Sounds like the gossip going down the line diluted the tale to me here. Maybe its just wishful thinking.
    Last edited by Jengelen, 27th November 2015 at 13:50.

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    Quote Originally posted by Elen View Post
    Thanks for “ducking in” Novusod, good clarification, pun intended. Also another clarification, the Finnish language is Van language, not Root language. Root language is the inner circle, and Van the outer circle. I.e. it’s a derivation from, and not the same as. I can say that, because I understand the Root language, the Van language not a single word.

    Elen
    YES! Novusod thanks.

    "The root language is a very visual language. They just didn't just say things. They saw things and used their 3rd eye to come up with abstractions."

    Could you please expand on this statement?

    Cymatics shows that sounds create patterns. One point Bock made in terms of the "Information system"seems that the language was able to accurately convey information because of sound? Listening to the language transmitted something like whole blocks of information.

    I was always fascinated by the "Tower of Babel" story and the disturbance of a Universal language that led to separate languages. The word Babble sounds to me what it says...incoherent, chaotic, not meaningful. If one does not understand the language, it sounds like Babble.

    I found a video that was fun


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeC1yAaWG34


    Were sounds "heard" by one the way the visions were seen by others?
    Did sounds from one cause visions in another?

    I am interested in more information as to this kind of "visual thinking" and is this related to what is now called "visions" or creative "visualization?"
    Thanks so much.
    Last edited by Maggie, 27th November 2015 at 19:06.

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    Quote Originally posted by Jengelen View Post
    Even in society today various subsets exist within each segment of society. So it stands to reason there would be some deviance or perhaps to them it was normal but you what I mean.
    What if you could read my mind and when I looked at you, it was with lust. That is an issue of telempathy. I would need to seriously gaurd my thoughts if some thoughts were forbidden. We could say that people sense what others are thinking but we also have an agreement to ignore what we find and look to actions as the only real.

    I think we lost telempathy at some point. This made it possible to separate us out and tell us what the meaning of something might be. I cannot seriously entertain that "lust" is as serious as "murder". It is really mind blowing when one thinks about it society glorifies violence and demonizes sexual expression.

    IMO the greatest deviance of all historic perversion is glorification of all the various ways to kill (in the name of...) while making evil the "acts" that arise (even if seemingly peculiar or crude) from attraction and "love". And in history we observe the linking of sex as rape with victory in war.

    Was there a manipulated turn towards war that used the means of love bonds to create "Infant eries"? Followers believed in and passionately defending the leadership.

    Same sex "heart friend"s was not just a Bock invention.....
    I am sure we all know the history of the Trojan's same sex bonds and the Greek idea that true love was between men.
    Of course no one ever asks what the misses were doing because it was by then Patriarchy and women became invisible.

    This was an interesting find for me.....

    Satan in the Groin

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    Super Moderator Norway Elen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Maggie View Post
    What if you could read my mind and when I looked at you, it was with lust. That is an issue of telempathy. I would need to seriously gaurd my thoughts if some thoughts were forbidden. We could say that people sense what others are thinking but we also have an agreement to ignore what we find and look to actions as the only real.

    I think we lost telempathy at some point. This made it possible to separate us out and tell us what the meaning of something might be. I cannot seriously entertain that "lust" is as serious as "murder". It is really mind blowing when one thinks about it society glorifies violence and demonizes sexual expression.

    IMO the greatest deviance of all historic perversion is glorification of all the various ways to kill (in the name of...) while making evil the "acts" that arise (even if seemingly peculiar or crude) from attraction and "love". And in history we observe the linking of sex as rape with victory in war.

    Was there a manipulated turn towards war that used the means of love bonds to create "Infant eries"? Followers believed in and passionately defending the leadership.

    Same sex "heart friend"s was not just a Bock invention.....
    I am sure we all know the history of the Trojan's same sex bonds and the Greek idea that true love was between men.
    Of course no one ever asks what the misses were doing because it was by then Patriarchy and women became invisible.

    This was an interesting find for me.....

    Satan in the Groin


    I found this online. It’s from a forum called Atlantis rising, no longer existing, but with the “Internet Archive Wayback Machine” some has been kept safe. I’ll post some of it from time to time, written by someone calling him/herself “Boreas” who is a very knowledgeable person. Page 3

    The populisation of Northern Eurasia is obviously ARCTIC. But, - the time and place of the origin - of the first arctic population is still far from sufficiently explained. By proof.
    But, - we do already know that there have actually been existing an Artic Population
    already 280.000 years ago. In Finland. We also know that "modern man" visited the White Sea and The Kara Ocean, - already 40.000 years ago.
    We also know that this population disappeared - due to the "deluge" appearing when the glacier covering 95 % of Fenno-Scandia started moving, aprox. 10.700 years ago. As this glacier broke up, the part covering Finland started moving south. As the glacier slid towards the ocean the ancient population of the Finnish archipelago would either escape - or being pushed into the ocean.
    Seemingly some of them did escape and survive, - since we still see a relative large group of arctic populations still today. And we can even follow a line of development of this culture, from the time when the first groups of ALL the arctic populations (Europeans, Russians) arrived about 10.000 years ago. And we can still see that this population still express a large number of ethnical, lingual and cultural expressions - closely related to the Arctical Nature.
    This simple time-line is based on the growingly famous discoveries made over the last decade by Scandinavian and Russian scientists. (www.nba.fi, etc.)
    So far the oldest of ALL known arctical populations is found in the Finnish Archipelago. Consequently we have to direct our attention to this specific area to establish a historical background for the fully and completely "acclimatized" kind of human that populated the Finnish archipelago already DURING ice-time.
    9-10.000 years ago this people started populating the vast and empty area of the arctical climate-zone. Given the speed they have expanded by it must be this ONE, pre-boreal population that have developed the skills and abilities to sustain the artic winter, under scarce circumstances. Thus we may explain the origin and the fast expension of the article population, that already 8000 years ago covered the entire Eurasian continent, from Biscayan to The Chinese Wall. 6-7.000 years ago they sailed across the Atlantic Ocean, populating the Orkneys, The Faeroe Islands, etc. As to when they reached the American continent is still not clarified, - but the mentioned Clovis culture may still be an early appearance of arctical, populating coastal areas of the Arctical America, as we have seen from the excavations on New Found land.
    A funny piece in the puzzle is actually a picture of a highly organized society and a governmental order depicted in the cultural antiquities today found from the Eurasian Mesolithic (early stone-age). Already 8.000 years ago we find an organised culture covering the east of Eurasia, while Western Europe had a similar but still distinctly separate expressions. Cross-referencing a gross amount of archaeological items one seems not to agree that we have had eastern AND western characteristics separate already 8.000 years ago...!
    Still today we can divide the linguistically and ethnical border of Eurasia by the same old line, starting at the top of the border between Finland and Sweden - following the old border-river straight south, crossing Aland before following the old border-river Weichsel/Wizla in today’s Poland, before reaching Balkan, Moldavia and the shores of the Black Sea.
    Just recently we had another astonishing discovery revealed in this matter;
    ---
    "Prehistoric skeleton unearthed in Bulgaria"
    The skeleton of a prehistoric woman believed to
    represent the first agricultural civilization
    existing on Bulgarian land was unearthed near the
    village of Ohoden, Vratsa district, northwest
    Bulgaria. Archaeologists found the skeleton on the
    riverbank of the local Skut River. The finding
    was approximately dated back 9,000 years, which
    makes the 'Bulgarian farmer' five centuries older
    than the already known humans to have lived on
    the Balkan Peninsula.
    The skeleton was revealed during excavation
    works in a pre-historic village unearthed from a
    depth of 2 m. "This woman skeleton is five
    centuries older than those which were found in
    the Balkans and belong to the first generation of
    farmers that inhabited this region," said
    archaeologist Georgy Ganetsovski, who made the
    discovery.
    The village seemed to be very well
    preserved after being devastated by a big fire.
    Archaeologists said that the people living on
    these lands in prehistoric times were the first
    to invent ceramics and to build thermally
    isolated solid houses. They were convinced that
    the Ohoden finding would redraft the history of
    human civilization.
    Sources: Novinite, (31 October 2004), The Hindu (7 November 2004) http://www.novinite.com
    ……………………

    The works of Jonathan Adams is of the few reliable updates on the ice age, that being in America or Eurasia.
    http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/nerc.html#maps http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen...THAMERICA.html
    As we see the same main stages of development are parallel in time, using geological time frames. Understanding that "ice-time" began - endured, and ended, - at the same periods all over the Northern Hemisphere.
    The last stages - before our time - have been so well understood, today - that modern geologists like Adams have the with to collect and verify the mass of information necessary to create A all-over-view that may result in a world-map, describing the globe, 10.000+ years ago.
    Over the last years we have seen more and more maps constructed, - locally, regionally and continentally. Based on the remarkable work by Danish climatologists we can now get "technically confirmed" information about the climate over the Greenland Ice-Sheet over the last 170.000 years. That confirming archaeological/biochemical estimates from different sites over large areas have helped a lot to get clear on the periods of the climate at the time, such as "melting periods" and "interglacial".
    Together with an extensive body of geological information it is possible to draw maps of the last 120.000 years. Somehow.
    But there is still MUCH ground to cover before we have a clear, scientifically confirmed picture of the entire ice-time.
    Some one year ago I asked Jonathan Adams
    if there is chance of getting a map describing the glaciers definite MAXIMUM size, understanding that is a key to get closer to a definite age/duration of the anomaly that occurred as the globe started to freeze - from both south and north, simultaneously...
    The answer was most clearly; "Not possible". Which corresponds to the feedback I got from other geologists/climatologists at the time, normally addressing the problems of gaining certainty about anything older than 120.000 years - occurring ON the surface of the crust...
    Luckily, Mr. Adams is a young and vigorous scientist. When I see the work he already has added to his merits over the last year I guess he will be among the first to pull that investigation together...!
    Meanwhile we may keep focus on what happened over the last 120.000 years, - since both "Modern Civilization" as well as "Atlantis" is much younger than that.
    It also means that the population existing within the Baltic Ocean 120.000 years ago - already - have had to be very, very article.
    This means that nature have been able to develop ONE tribe of the original man, outside the tropical world, - to survive and endure in an "high-artic climate", where the ground is covered with ice and snow half of the year...
    Adapting to such a complete "climate-shock" is incredibly demanding. The chance that such an isolated culture is minimal. And it’s less than nothing if these people were unable to undergo many serious adoptions, - such as food, warmth, health, habits, work, etc. - in order to simply survive. To pick up more sun, during the short summer, - the skin got lighter, even turning completely white. Pale white. Only a few birthmarks with pigments - keeping the colour of their original, tropical skin colour. That also why the arctics developed green/blue ices. They’re still low on sunshine & pigment.
    Today we have arctic people still existing. We call them Caucasians.
    If they did NOT exist 120.000 years ago, - then WHICH kind of people did then exist inside the Baltic’s 120.000 years ago? Another artic population?
    I have still to hear an ethnologist defending the theory that we have had TWO different types of arctic man. If so; How many Etruscans/Chinese/Mayans/Aboriginals/Neanderthals? Do any biologist find it likely that TWO - different - hybrids should occur twice, - from one and the same parental origin?
    ……………….
    Whatever is true. Whatever is noble. Whatever is right. Whatever is lovely. Whatever is admirable. Anything of excellence and worthy of praise. Dwell on these things. Jesus Christ (I agree)

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    Quote Originally posted by Elen View Post
    I found this online. It’s from a forum called Atlantis rising, no longer existing, but with the “Internet Archive Wayback Machine” some has been kept safe. I’ll post some of it from time to time, written by someone calling him/herself “Boreas” who is a very knowledgeable person. Page 3
    Elen, It is really weird about google. I think it never gives me the same things and I was googling Bock Saga and Atlantis and this came up recently. I call this a definite synch.

    Herein lie the "Lost" Boreas Files by Rockessence

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    Super Moderator Norway Elen's Avatar
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    There you go, Maggie. It's all there....
    Elen
    Whatever is true. Whatever is noble. Whatever is right. Whatever is lovely. Whatever is admirable. Anything of excellence and worthy of praise. Dwell on these things. Jesus Christ (I agree)

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    Senior Member Novusod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Maggie View Post
    YES! Novusod thanks.

    "The root language is a very visual language. They just didn't just say things. They saw things and used their 3rd eye to come up with abstractions."

    Could you please expand on this statement?

    Cymatics shows that sounds create patterns. One point Bock made in terms of the "Information system"seems that the language was able to accurately convey information because of sound? Listening to the language transmitted something like whole blocks of information.

    I was always fascinated by the "Tower of Babel" story and the disturbance of a Universal language that led to separate languages. The word Babble sounds to me what it says...incoherent, chaotic, not meaningful. If one does not understand the language, it sounds like Babble.

    I found a video that was fun

    Were sounds "heard" by one the way the visions were seen by others?
    Did sounds from one cause visions in another?

    I am interested in more information as to this kind of "visual thinking" and is this related to what is now called "visions" or creative "visualization?"
    Thanks so much.
    Another way of explaining the concept is through the concept "Metaphysical Linguistics" and metaphysical letters of the root language.
    Meta - Make (Mother)
    Physical
    language

    Just examining the sounds used in a particular word can tell you the meaning of the word. I can even completely make up new words and you will understand the meaning of them just by focusing on the sounds. J.R.R Tolkien did this all the time when he came up with names for middle Earth in Simarillion and Lord of the Rings.

    For example: What is a "Balrog?" Just examining the sounds in the word can give you an idea of what this thing is.
    This is the metaphysical breakdown of the word Balrog.
    B - Breaker
    A - Awestruck
    L - Long
    R - Rasped
    O - Omen
    G - Head or Mouth

    Balrog - it is big, has a raspy mouth, it is awe inspiring, it breaks things

    What is the "Grendel" from the Saga of Beowulf? Do you know what Grendel looks like just be hearing the word Grendel.
    G - Mouth or Head
    R (END) - rend (to tear apart) rasp see run down
    L - Long

    The Grendel is obviously large biting and tearing creature. Think goblin but bigger with more Growling, Grinding.

    The cymatic principle of the root language has to do where one places tonal emphasis in the word. What syllable or sound is enunciated changes the meaning of the word somewhat. In the pronunciation of the word Balrog there is tonal emphasis on the "R" sound. In root language when you up the "R" sound you get "Raven" which is a bad tempered bird. Max out the R and it can even be interpreted at a "W" as in Wreck. The Grendel also has heavy "R" enunciation which will emphasize its "Ravenous" tendencies.

    These explanations should give you an idea of what I mean by "visual language." When you you hear a word even a word you never encountered before there is a metaphysical connection behind what the word means. The 3rd eye is used to construct the visualization.

    For the complete analysis of the root language please read my thread on: Esoteric Numerology and the Root Language. It is a work in progress but I will add more to it as time goes on.
    Last edited by Novusod, 27th November 2015 at 20:42.

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    Quote Originally posted by Elen View Post
    There you go, Maggie. It's all there....
    Elen
    "It's" all somewhere hehe.

    Perusing the Boreas thread led me to this book.

    The Baltic Origins of Homer's Epic Tales: The Iliad, the Odyssey, and the Migration of Myth December 20, 2005
    by Felice Vinci.


    It is a curious fact that the geographical descriptions furnished in Homer's Iliad (the story of the siege of Troy) and Odyssey (the story of Odysseus's journey home after Troy's fall) do not easily match the assumed Mediterranean topography. Various prehistorians, historians, archeologists, and linguists have expressed their consternation about Homer's geographical details. It was Plutarch (46-120 A.D.), who in his essay "The face that appears in the lunar orb," unequivocally states that Goddess Calypso's island of Ogygia mentioned in the Odyssey was situated "five days' sail from Britain, toward the west."

    Vinci, a nuclear engineer by profession and a passionate classicist by vocation, took Plutarch's statement as a serious clue to search for the geography of the Homeric epics in the North Atlantic rather than the Mediterranean. He has amassed a mountain of evidence in favor of the Baltic origins of both Greek epics. Similarities between the mythologies of the North and the Mediterranean have often been pointed out. Vinci argues that a deterioration in climate around 2000 B.C. caused some of the Scandinavian peoples to migrate south. As time went by, the epics were claimed by the Greeks for their own Mediterranean culture and environment.

    What about Schliemann's Troy? Although this intrepid explorer undoubtedly discovered the Mycenean civilization, his claim to have unearthed the city of Troy has never been universally accepted. Already Strabo ( ) denied that the "ancient Ilium ( Troy)" was to be found in Anatolia. A better candidate for the Homeric Troy than the Anatolian town of Hisarlik, excavated by Schliemann, is possibly the Finnish town of Toija, as suggested by Vinci.

    Vinci's audacious rewriting of Homeric culture and mythology is a creative proposition, which deserves to be further investigated.
    And in turn by googling I found an interesting slide show. Click on the image for the show




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    Senior Member Jengelen's Avatar
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    At some point in time in the past roaming bands of Neanderthals of the northern territories were out hunting and came across others. It is said by many researchers that these groups were thought to be composed largely of mostly homosexual men. Its not that they didn't find woman entertaining, they did. They were thought to be very rough brutes and probably were overly abusive but its conjecture of course.

    However they suppose that at some point these not so mobile short legged Neanderthals, limited mostly to middle Europe and parts of the north and south, came to meet up with highly mobile homosapiens. These of course were enslaved and enjoyed as toys, sex slaves and food if we are to believe the tales. Its thought the lack of mobility and loss of hunting territory as well as their methods of sexual reproduction being way behind for actually expecting to survive as it turned out for Neanderthal the hybrids ended up being hardier and more mobile than the parents. However, these hybrids kept a lot of the homsexual deviance which I might add is very well seen these days in the behaviors of these clans.

    Then we have the Denisovan clan a distinctly different group than the others that is also thought to have made their way to as far north as Europe and on the way of course they mated with some Homosapiens as well. These offspring of course were also highly mobile, intelligent and so now you have all these hybrids running around competing with each other and the melting pot getting more and more diluted down.

    Imagine the turf war. Denisovan peoples that are pure blood meets Neanderthals in smaller numbers but pure and both along the way managed to reproduce hybrids. Then Denisovan hybrids of them and homosapiens and Neanderthal homosapien hybrids and then the homo sapiens themselves. Why its a true melding of various species of bipeds here!

    The other hominids not in the mix that are competing like perhaps Homo Habillus or others are out there in all possibility and then of course we have the hybrids mating with other hybrids unaccounted for. Eventually it all dilutes and it appears the two ruling classes met there at Gobekli Tepe to me. This was not a living area but some sort of gathering site for something.

    I think it was the coming together of these otherwise warring clans in a time of need when making babies because of high mortality rates was needed. That is why they groin and sex cults that mated and that mating like Lance a lot tales produced all royals of what? Hybrids of course after that the dark skinned locals like in the bible noted orange hair and 'glowing' babies and we know now it was just the work of another Lance a lot happy penis! . To make babies correctly you need a map so, it makes sense to mark the geographic center of the new territory after the cataclysm and that is what they apparently did, they put the Pyramid right smack in the midgarde! The new midgarde was Egypt. I don't think the sphinx was ever a cat. I have seen the Egyptian eye in art and they don't miss much. The cats all have sway or curved backs like cats do.

    They knew this and portrayed it in others and the thing I think the Sphinx is is Anubis the dog guarding the new metropolis and the tell is the flat back like all dog figures had. As I say they didn't miss much and they certainly did use the crap out of polymer to build after the cataclysm where before that they used solid stone apparently. So it does seem that some other stronger being or perhaps bigger even, once lived and made the larger featured monuments of old. I mean that makes sense to me also because other animals were also bigger before the cataclysm.

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    Super Moderator Norway Elen's Avatar
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    THE LOST CIVILIZATION OF THE NORTH FULL VERSION by MAJoramo

    I noticed that the 2nd video didn’t work anymore so I checked it out. It turns out that Morten Alexander Joramo, who made the video has taken it down and made another much longer documentary on the subject.

    He is convinced that finding the routes of both Odysseus and Jason (with his Argonauts) in the North of Europe, as well as the Four Rivers in the Garden of Eden is confirming Ior Bock's Saga, where the story of Noah is (now most logically) placed in the Baltic.


    Whatever is true. Whatever is noble. Whatever is right. Whatever is lovely. Whatever is admirable. Anything of excellence and worthy of praise. Dwell on these things. Jesus Christ (I agree)

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    When I first learned about the concept of "catholic", it was because my family had "catholic taste" in a deep South USA community where many were attached to more fundamentalist strains of culture. It was an anti-intellectual just read the bible and listen to the authorities and preacher mentality. I think the ability to reach out into breadth saves people's minds from fanaticism. Fanatic can alienate people and prevent synthesis.

    When capitalized, Catholic refers to the Catholic Church. With a lower-case "c," catholic means "universal" and "inclusive." If you listen to anything from hip-hop to Baroque, you have catholic taste in music.
    When it entered the English language in the sixteenth century, catholic simply meant "general" or "common." Applied to the Western Church, it essentially meant "the Church universal," or the whole body of Christian believers, as opposed to separate congregations. After the Reformation, the Western Church called itself the Catholic Church to distinguish itself from communities of faith that were no longer obedient to Rome. This usage remains the most common, although you can still use catholic to mean general.https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/catholic
    Apparently Tolkien was both Catholic and catholic?

    In a 1953 letter to Father Robert Murray, a Catholic theologian, J.R.R. Tolkien wrote:
    The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like 'religion', to cults or practices, in the imaginary world.

    Although Tolkien had a deep personal commitment to Catholicism, he also had an abiding love for what he called “that noble northern spirit” – the historical, literary and philosophical heritage of pre-Christian northern Europe. He lamented that the coming of Christianity had obliterated any detailed record of the ancient mythology of his own country, as opposed to Iceland’s preservation of its literary heritage in the Eddas. His decades-long creation of the Middle-earth corpus was, in part, an effort to create a “mythology for England.” This mythology is not a Christian one; Tolkien referred to Gandalf as an “Odinic wanderer,” not a Christ figure (despite what today’s movie reviewers may tell you).

    In 1926, Tolkien founded the Kolbítar [“coalbiter”] Society, named for an Old Norse term referring to those who would tell tales while sitting close enough to the fire to bite the coals. The members of the club (including C.S. Lewis) would meet regularly to translate the Icelandic Eddas and sagas while drinking beer. Given that these texts are foundational sources of information for Norse mythology and religion – and that beer plays a major role in both the myth and ritual of the ancient North – I wouldn’t call this club “fundamentally Catholic” in outlook, unless we use the lower-case catholic to mean “broad in sympathies, tastes or interests.”http://www.norsemyth.org/2013/02/tol...-part-one.html
    Latest I have seen for the Bocks

    This was posted before


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=/aCuC6ZsI70s


    INTERESTING exchange recently between Jim Chesnar and Morten Joramo as to how the Bock Saga and other information is either connected or kept separate?

    Morten Alexander Joramo2 months ago
    Hello Jim (Chesnar), long time, I recently got these comments from you and haven’t been able to answer earlier. Your comments were spread all over the place under tallakfilm, so I collected them and put them here, in order to reply to them afterwards. Hope everything is fine with you too.
    You wrote:

    Thelma Lynne (Jim Chesnar)
    +Morten Alexander Joramo ...hey! Mortem...nice story...but is any of this coming from Ior ?in all the years I spent with him I never heard any of this....hope your life is with many good feelings....your friend...Jim chesnar

    Thelma Lynne (Jim Chesnar)
    +Morten Alexander Joramo... very beautiful presentation...jim

    Thelma Lynne (Jim Chesnar)
    +Morten Alexander Joramo ...beautiful production...hope the life is being good for you...good feelings...Jim Chesnar

    Thelma Lynne (Jim Chesnar)
    +Morten Alexander Joramo ..just like to ask is this your kela about troy and the northern odysey? I never heard any of this from Ior...sounds like you could be mixing saga with your own theory...??…

    Well, Jim, the Lost Civilization of the North is not Bock Saga at all, it is just a story which happens to prove that there was a Norse Culture alive and well back in the Bronze Age, a culture with huge influence on the world around it. All confirming – as in proving – that there was a now forgotten Norse Culture which spread its influence all over the planet, just like Ior said.
    I don’t know if you ever heard any discussions among Ior’s friends about the theories of Felice Vinci, who introduced the idea of Odysseus in the High North. That was anyway where I first heard about it. And I discussed it a lot with Ior, who, like I, found it very interesting.
    Then it turned out that I started discovering errors in Vinci’s reasoning, and started looking at the thing and making discoveries of my own. So first I wrote about it in the Homer Code, (as an introduction to the Bock Saga) but then I discovered that not only Odysseus, but also Jason and the Argonauts were sailing in the High North, which I wrote about in Atlantis Unveiled. But then I suddenly discovered many new things around Denmark, and so I collected all that Greek Mythology in the High North material into the new book The Lost Civilization of the North, from which this film is made.
    When I had done all this, it occurred to me that this was actually logical, honest and truly inescapable evidence and proof that what Ior was telling about an ancient Norse culture in Asgard was in fact true. And I thought that could be interesting for many people to see for themselves.
    I noticed with myself, that it did something to me that I now had proof about the actual existence of the world Ior talked about. Even though I was of the opinion that it had to be genuine, also before.
    I don’t know if you ever discuss these kinds of things with any viking-museum people or ditto archaeologists, but if you have you may have noticed, like I have, that they can get very defensive and will resort to any means at their disposal, legal or otherwise, to prevent you from venting any such ideas through their channels.
    Well, this is proof that the official archaeological “viking” story, as pushed by museums paid by the taxpayers, is actually dead wrong.
    So Jim, you probably don’t have so many viking museums out there on Hawaii, but this might perhaps still be of interest, even though it is not just the words of Ior Bock. You must remember that here in the Nordic countries the remains of our ancient Norse culture is a lot less than what is left after the Native Americans. Here it is not even officially recognized that any such ancient and highly evolved Norse culture ever existed.

    Bom and good feeling.

    Morten
    Published on Jun 22, 2016
    The Mysteries of Balder's Temple

    When I had solved the Homer Code in the sense of deciphering the complete routes of Odysseus, and Jason & the Argonauts, in the North, I had effectively also proven the prior existence of a Lost Civilization, of the North. A civilization which turned out to be none other than the one Ior Bock was talking about.

    As I came to understand in my heart of hearts that the world Ior Bock told of had been real, that made me also take another look at the events around 1998, when I was involved with an attempt to open Balder's Temple in Gumbostrand, Finland.
    THE MYSTERIES OF BALDERS TEMPLE by MAJoramo


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=/W09qHATzRtk


    More interaction and maybe more indication that opinions get in the way?

    Patricio Samuel
    1 week ago
    Lux. Great presentation, Morten. So according to Ior, only a rock from the Moon could be added to the Temple since it was the only thing missing. Can you tell more about that?

    Reply
    Morten Alexander Joramo
    1 week ago
    Ior asked me several times how come I was so different from all the others.
    That I could not answer him.
    One time he asked me what I was most curious about, the cave or its contents.
    I answered the cave.
    I noticed that puzzled him, and while he pondered my answer, I happened to be struggling a little with a video camera or recording machine., something I saw he noticed as it made him smile to himself. And so he said that I should remember that the contents of the cave also included all of Paradise Time's technical inventions..

    Reply2
    Thelma Lynne (Jim Chesnar)
    1 week ago
    Patricio....my uncle from Texas knew some astronauts from Nasa in Houston. ..One of them gave him 1 kuu kivi or moon rock..I gave it Ior. ...It was in his attic in the town apartment but on his death I have no idea what happen to it...That is the Moon rock story....good feelings...jim

    Reply1
    Morten Alexander Joramo
    1 week ago
    So perhaps the Bock Saga never even mentioned any Moon Rock in the first place, then?

    Reply
    Thelma Lynne (Jim Chesnar)
    1 week ago
    +Morten Alexander Joramo.. if you are comparing a moon rock and your Greek story in the north...I do not see any comparison. .Ior said he wanted to put my uncle Gene's moon rock into the temple..That came from his own mouth...If we find where the stone is one day...it could maybe be put in the temple as our friend wished..You can ask Michel or Kevin if the moon rock really came from me...Michel said he never heard Ior say anything Greek mythology being in the north.

    Reply
    Thelma Lynne (Jim Chesnar)
    1 week ago
    You say he pondered your answer...you didn't have a answer..not much to ponder there..I think Ior didn't needed to ask us about much of anything...It was more to listen to what he said...Really

    Reply
    Morten Alexander Joramo
    1 week ago
    The point is not whether Ior wanted to put your uncle Gene's moon rock into the temple, or if the moon rock really came from you, the point is that no Moon Rock was ever mentioned in the Bock Saga in the first place, and this story of yours is of no general interest whatsoever. Just like this discussion. Over and out.

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