Israeli Special Forces in Las Vegas?

[bsbray]

The US is occupied territory. People don't see it because the US is just about exclusively three kinds of people:

I sympathize with your frustration but a lot of people are waking up. You can't expect that kind of thing to be broadcast on MSM because it will never be, but a lot of things are changing for the better (not enough popular support to bomb Syria so that was abandoned, "establishment" candidates are not doing well in polls, there is more demand for organic food, etc.). It's an ongoing process but we can't be too hard ourselves about it, because it's going to take a lot of cooperation and confident attitudes to really dig into this mess from a grass roots level.

[Dreamtimer]

When I'm with my Orthodox friends I simply don't feel like I can discuss any of this.

They're very nice people but there's always an undercurrent of being special. They talk about something in the news, in someone else's community and there's a distinct feeling of, "You'd never see that in our community".

My friend explained to me, very nicely, that I do get to go to heaven. Just not the best parts. The most high places in heaven are for the Jews.

They also speak pretty frequently about how Jewish people may really be genetically different (in a superior way) from the rest of us. I pointed out that since we can all have children with each other, we're all still human. I really couldn't let that one pass.

How do you talk about the atrocities of Isreal with people who believe it's all God's hand and will and that the Palestinians deserve everything they get?

I have no answer to that.

[enjoy being]

I have no answer to that.

I have an answer but they wouldn't be my friends after giving it. It may even just be a silent answer as feeling sorry for people who have been deluded into such thoughts and then chosen to use it as a light for their sense of well being, is not an advised action. Well, meaning that those who are possessed or have entities hanging around them feeding off that sort of energy, will.. well the entities will, not leave without a fight and will protect their supper.

[lcam88]

I once challenged the idea that "everyone is an enemy" with a few friends of mine. I let it go, and so did they, after that Awkward moment.

I have heard the superior routine too.

In depth discussions and dialectic is great; but questioning anything that is accepted on faith (on face value or on heuristics rather than real evidence) is always complicated with anyone.

But just like everyone else, people need to grow out of their vises, even when they feel themselves to be superior, chosen or any other measure of irrationality of this nature [, even if such vises are of inferiority or whatever in the case of other groups].

In answer to your question above Dreamtimer:

How do you talk about the atrocities of Isreal with people who believe it's all God's hand and will and that the Palestinians deserve everything they get?

I have no answer to that.

Asking good questions is always on the table. The best way to convince someone is to have them think it is their own idea. Israel and Palestine are too entwined, too much blood has been spilt, there is no going back just as there is no moral high ground. Asking questions is good because that way you can avoid the temptation or invitation to taking that moral high ground.

[gord]

Reading "Coup d'État" by Edward Luttwak while pondering the bizarre behaviour of the US for a long time now wakes some people up.

[gord]

In this 8 minute video, she traces Israeli "art students" to Mossad agents and detonation devises and back through their connection to various companies and their name changes directly to Halliburton. This is new information which proves a direct connection to Israel.

Hmm, well I guess as Marshall McLuhan said: "Art is anything you can get away with."

[lcam88]

Hmm, well I guess as Marshall McLuhan said: "Art is anything you can get away with."

Art is applied creativity.

A convicted murderer indeed may already have performed his most masterful work. Notions of "getting away with it", may just be a distraction, furthermore what is art without someone to appreciate the creative efforts?

The right question, dreamtimer, is: "How far is too far?" (Ref StarTrek Renegades 2015)

Did the ancestors go too far with the Amalekites, was it to be a show for all the world to know? And now that those punies would dare defy, what new message is needed? How far is too far?

I certainly don't have an answer, It is not my predicament to really suggest anything either.

[enjoy being]

Here are most but not all of the drawings that are related to the Israeli art group. There is another few also related to the mannequin art installation that was also part of the "art work".
Not sure why not many on this site or others are not mentioning them. The photo here directly below has a black white, spy v spy, "Swedish?" clock feel about it. Somewhat ritualistic.







[IMG]http://www.shakesaspear.com/images/629_TW_Image_Sketch_****en.jpg[/IMG]



I have also found a few of their other 'artworks' it is mostly video work, the other reference that the word gelatin can be seen to mean by the 'artists' is that is also a name for the emulsion that film photography and motion picture photography uses/d. Anyhow one video is of two 'actors' cleaning an apartment while naked, it is pretty homoerotic. The other video I saw was the gelatin ABC I think they called it. Where they were acting all looney behind the camera in front of a yard in China, filled with Chinese school kids. They got them to sing the alphabet song, but they had changed a few letters so it sounded a bit dyslexic. There was then a second singing of the song by the children and edited/overlaid over top, like a Sesame St show were the letters. Except the letters were made out of human excrement. Sounds like the perfect art group to invite into those towers to me (sarcasm).

[gord]

Something in this thread has been bugging me, and I just realized what it is. It is the notion that some people have that any negative reference to Israel or Mossad is a negative reference to all Jews, past, present, and future. It isn't. That would be a logical error of going from the particular to the universal that some people seem to demand others to make regarding certain subjects. This is itself a logical error of confusing form with content. You would think that people who use logic with great regularity -- say for example, those who debug code -- would not make this error, but you'd be wrong. As I said, for some, regarding certain subjects, it's apparently a requirement to make this error. This must stop.

[Dreamtimer]

There are groups of people and organizations that do take the stance that criticism of Isreal or Mossad is anti-semitism. My orthodox friends are constantly talking about how in hard times, jews get discriminated against. When things get tough, anti-semitism comes to the surface.

They're basically expecting it and seeing actions and developments through that lens. Their vision can become as distorted as the true anti-semites.

Personally I feel much more comfortable talking about racism with black people than Isreali issues with Jewish people. It's much easier.

I'm a wasp. (White anglo-saxon protestant for those who don't know).

[bsbray]

Speaking of anti-Semitism and racism:

Rumors of Netyanhu’s Son Dating Norwegian Girl Sparks off Outburst of Typical Jewish Supremacist Racism

An unconfirmed rumor that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s 23-year-old son is dating a non-Jewish Norwegian girl has sparked off an outburst from Jewish Supremacists in Israel who object to Jews mixing with non-Jews—once again revealing themselves to be the ultimate hypocrites.

[...]

The hypocrisy of the situation is apparent when two factors are considered:

1. In Israel, it is illegal for a Jew to marry a non-Jew. This law is not based on religious conviction, but purely on biological descent. This means that a Gentile who converts to Judaism cannot marry a Jew in Israel, but an atheist Jew can marry another Jew in that country.*

2. In all other countries with large Jewish populations, their pressure groups (such as the ADL, SPLC, British Board of Jewish Deputies, German Council of Jews, European Jewish Parliament etc. etc.) are all the forefront of “anti-racist” campaigns among Gentiles.

Imagine what these same Jewish organizations would say if a law was passed in any other nation which forbid Jews from marrying non-Jews.

http://newobserveronline.com/rumors-...macist-racism/




Here's an educational diagram:



http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/...emium-1.596576

[lcam88]

Something in this thread has been bugging me, and I just realized what it is. It is the notion that some people have that any negative reference to Israel or Mossad is a negative reference to all Jews, past, present, and future. It isn't.

They are together.

And you should be bugged by any kind of blanket judgement or stereotype. Why is this one special to you?

Their vision can become as distorted as the true anti-semites.

Extremist views...

Personally I feel much more comfortable talking about racism with black people than Isreali issues with Jewish people. It's much easier.

I've found both to be equally futile, you get to the point where you understand the issues and just know that is as far as you are going to get. And even perching from that armchair of truth, it is not clear how to even express the next idea; people have their reasons founded on such fundamental aspects of belief and reasoning that such an effort is really analogous to "p1ssing into the wind".

[bsbray]

They are together.

And you should be bugged by any kind of blanket judgement or stereotype. Why is this one special to you?

I wouldn't presume to answer on behalf of gord but I suspect it's because Israel and Mossad seem beyond criticism for many people simply using the accusation of racism.

[gord]

bsbray hit the nail on the head.

My comment was partly because I saw it being vaguely danced around in the thread, and partly because the first few comments I put in the thread almost immediately produced the beginnings of a minor witch hunt elsewhere. It was meant to be as generalized as possible, and not in response to anyone in particular.

Nothing new, really. I've already put up with close to 30 years worth of multifaceted, egregious witch hunts as it is.

[lcam88]

I've already put up with close to 30 years worth of multifaceted, egregious witch hunts as it is.

It seem this trend of witch hunting isn't going away anytime soon, it seems.

In a way though, the issue boils down to a fundamental that Mr Ferrell revealed to me in one of his radio broadcasts. The underlying metaphor behind Christianity, judaism and Islam is one of division. It divides. Humanity (who lives on the earth) from god (who lives in the heavens). The groups chosen by god (jews) and the ones condemned by god (Amalekites).

And this pattern goes on and on and on: The people who put aside their morals and values for the words of a messenger, vs the ones that take it upon themselves to interpret the message itself.

It took me quite some time to identify other ancient messages that did not carry this metaphor of division. But today, this issue is mostly out of mind and out of sight, nobody knows why racism is so alive and well, nobody knows why womens' rights required a feminist movement to bring change, nobody knows why we all carry nationalistic feelings about the country we live in. People are people, but somewhere we got programmed with a strange type of infection of the mind.

Jews being together is a good thing. IMO. If only the rest of us could understand the example set.

And it cannot even be said that their attitude with the Palestinians is "wrong". It is lamentable yes, but not wrong insofar as one may have merits to call upon the jews to fix it.

The reason I would point out, about criticisms being out of place:

Americans (English settlers) didn't fix the massacre of native american tribes in North America that happened over the course of 4 or 5 hundred years. The Europeans who benefited from slave trafficking (as was mandated by their religion), haven't lifted a finger to make reparations to those people, families, tribes or cultures they destroyed. The Spanish don't even hint at moving to fix the atrocities committed in the Yucatan or South America at all. And even in Europe, the church does nothing real about the massacres of people who lived there who didn't abide by catholic order. In Brazil, where I live, there is still systematic confiscation of indigenous lands by one mean or another; the government only fronts the issue when people start dying, and only in a symbolic gestures at best.

The issue boils down to one question: How far is too far?

It is a question that doesn't have an answer.