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Thread: Seeing through 'The Veil'

  1. #106
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    In other words, direction is neutral, until it is imbued with intention...

    To relate this to the Golden Gnomon/Golden Triangle, have a look at them in 'pentagon/pentacle format':





    Where 108 degrees appears in each angle of the pentagon:



    Displayed abundantly in the flower and plant world, as an inherent 'order' patterning of life-energy-into-form....



    ..yet in the spectrum of intentionality, it can come to mean defence, militarism, control and maintenance of 'power', as in 'The Pentagon'. Imagine projecting into water, the thought - and the feelings you associate with - a beautiful, living flower, or The Pentagon. The responding crystalline re-formation in the water could be somewhat different...

    72+72 is 144, 108+36 is 144...ad infinitum...the question is, how are we going to use it? Is our intentionality flowering from centre, is it drawing energy into supportive harmonic forms? Is it locking structure around the centre, fluctuating, getting benevolent and controlling 'motions' mixed up (effects of the Veil+ego mind)? Our choice....

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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I've heard some about "structured water". DW has talked about experiments with dna & water wher the water retained memory of the dna structure. I believe homeopathic medicines use this quality of water.

    Kautz Vella mentioned spinning water in a vortex to change it into 'mineral oil'. I don't recall him mentioning direction of spin.

    With north being up the earth spins counterclockwise. How long has this been the norm? Is this another backwards/upside down thing where those of you down under are actually on top?

    If I spin when I'm dancing it's usually counter. I wonder, is this a handed thing? Is there a standard? Which way do the dervishes spin?
    I bless (send love to) water before drinking it, and most days 'talk' to the water in my body, in relation to rna, dna and epigenomes, utilizing the 'memory of water'....also for years now, in meditation and visualizations with the waters of the planet...

    Haha, well, maybe top and bottom of the globe are just perceptionally relative...or maybe there is a deeper reason for viewing the axis north-south...

    I spin counter clockwise when dancing too...as do the dervishes, and they can't all be left-handed! Lol...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_Cf-ZxDfZA

    Wow, they are beautiful to watch....I notice in the vid, they tilt their head to the right, feels like a counterbalancing of the counterclockwise spin...

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  5. #108
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    Yesterday, and I blame you and lcam88 for this, I spent some time imagining being a water molecule. What would it be like? I'd float in the air, join with a couple other molecules, party on a dust mote, fall as rain into a river, flow around rocks, fall through the air, get diverted to the bank, bond with the soil, get taken up by a plant to flow through its xylem, get respired out of a leaf and float through the air once again...

    If I get unformed into gas and then reformed into a molecule am I the same entity?

    It was a different kind of imagining.

    So thanks.

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  7. #109
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Yesterday, and I blame you and lcam88 for this, I spent some time imagining being a water molecule. What would it be like? I'd float in the air, join with a couple other molecules, party on a dust mote, fall as rain into a river, flow around rocks, fall through the air, get diverted to the bank, bond with the soil, get taken up by a plant to flow through its xylem, get respired out of a leaf and float through the air once again...

    If I get unformed into gas and then reformed into a molecule am I the same entity?

    It was a different kind of imagining.

    So thanks.
    Ah, that was some trip.... thanks for sharing it...

    'If I get unformed into gas and then reformed into a molecule am I the same entity?' That might depend on the 'plan' of your 'soul essence', which can play with form and substance like changing your clothes. Of course, if you've put your clothes through the wash (water state), they come out refreshed, don't they?

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Joanna, I view the earth's recovery of it's Goldenprint as a beautiful and necessary thing. I'm heartened to hear you speak of the many forces helping to bring this forth. It's really beyond my comprehension why anybody would want to ruin it.
    It heartens me too, to see/feel those forces, which are many, and all interconnected, 'aligned' for recovery of the Goldenprint. xx

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  9. #110
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer
    ...I spent some time imagining being a water molecule...
    Imagine being a hydrogen nuclei within the water molecule...

    Would you be within the octahedron shell, or outside of it? I contend you would be within. Between the first and second electron shells of the Oxygen.

    You would not be alone, but you would have a partner, a lover, an enemy spinning in your midst (the other hydrogen nucleai) and you would do your dance with this partner forever and ever as your universe (between the two electron shells) is curved, just like ours here and now is.

    It is for that reason (that I find the nuclei between the shells) that I don't agree with the 104º theory above.

    And that the nuclei spin about each other in one reference, and the pair spin about the oxygen atom in another gives contemplation for the two direction issue I dwelled upon for a bit. I am still not certain about that. I like your rational though, Joanna.

    Now, if you where to manipulate the molecule in such a way that the angle between the hydrogen nuclei is changed. Say to 72º (from 108 or whatever) you would also change the nature of the molecule. It would become charged in an interesting way.

    In a very real way, the nuclei are like balls at the end of a string (with a tendency to maintain some unusual angle between them) that react when the oxygen "container" is "shaken". To change the angle one must only find the right way to shake the container (a vibration maybe?). Since they are all identical, your efforts to shake a cup of water would result in billions of molecules being effected... Perhaps to introduce synchronicity in molecular movements and motions...

    This aspect of structure (the angle between the nuclei) and being able to put them into similar spin motions (by shaking) even as it may be something simple to imagine, was not even hinted at in all of my science education.
    Last edited by lcam88, 14th October 2015 at 14:50.

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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally posted by lcam88 View Post
    Imagine being a hydrogen nuclei within the water molecule...

    Would you be within the octahedron shell, or outside of it? I contend you would be within. Between the first and second electron shells of the Oxygen.

    You would not be alone, but you would have a partner, a lover, an enemy spinning in your midst (the other hydrogen nucleai) and you would do your dance with this partner forever and ever as your universe (between the two electron shells) is curved, just like ours here and now is.

    It is for that reason (that I find the nuclei between the shells) that I don't agree with the 104º theory above.

    And that the nuclei spin about each other in one reference, and the pair spin about the oxygen atom in another gives contemplation for the two direction issue I dwelled upon for a bit. I am still not certain about that. I like your rational though, Joanna.

    Now, if you where to manipulate the molecule in such a way that the angle between the hydrogen nuclei is changed. Say to 72º (from 108 or whatever) you would also change the nature of the molecule. It would become charged in an interesting way.

    In a very real way, the nuclei are like balls at the end of a string (with a tendency to maintain some unusual angle between them) that react when the oxygen "container" is "shaken". To change the angle one must only find the right way to shake the container (a vibration maybe?). Since they are all identical, your efforts to shake a cup of water would result in billions of molecules being effected... Perhaps to introduce synchronicity in molecular movements and motions...

    This aspect of structure (the angle between the nuclei) and being able to put them into similar spin motions (by shaking) even as it may be something simple to imagine, was not even hinted at in all of my science education.
    Ha, imagining.....a lovely double helix spin dance indeed.

    'To change the angle one must only find the right way to shake the container (a vibration maybe?).'
    Oh, I like that. A vibration, yes - a very specific and precise vibration, according to the desired 'angle'....

    Btw, coming from a non-math/science background, at least in this 'Joanna lifetime' (therefore with only an approach of intuiting and 'listening' to the frequencies I attempt to describe), I appreciate your ability to clearly mentally model and extrapolate at the conceptual level, in these conversations. Thank you.

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  13. #112
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    Joanna, all of this is about the nature of the veil that is before us. Mathematics is only useful if the modeling can be conceptualized into something distinct in the mind. If you cannot, then all you are doing is building a "mechanical" model out of the numbers and systems you are working with. That is good too, in some cases, but the ability to feel a model with the minds faculties makes the experience something you can immerse yourself into. At the end of the day, that is what understanding the veil should be about. IMO.

    I had made a posting about how frequency and vibration are terms that are very misunderstood. Certainly not to be confused with a tone. Although tones may also be useful depending.

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    Quote Originally posted by lcam88 View Post
    Joanna, all of this is about the nature of the veil that is before us. Mathematics is only useful if the modeling can be conceptualized into something distinct in the mind. If you cannot, then all you are doing is building a "mechanical" model out of the numbers and systems you are working with. That is good too, in some cases, but the ability to feel a model with the minds faculties makes the experience something you can immerse yourself into. At the end of the day, that is what understanding the veil should be about. IMO.

    I had made a posting about how frequency and vibration are terms that are very misunderstood. Certainly not to be confused with a tone. Although tones may also be useful depending.
    Yes, the immersive aspect is both beautiful and instructive, isn't it, when it comes to understanding more than the mechanics of the modelling....actually, with these geometries I'm exploring, I take them into my 'inner heart landscape', expand them and walk around inside them, sit in them, feel into the particular frequency field each one generates.
    And yes, I feel your concern about the use of the terms frequency, vibration and tone in new age speak....maybe not necessarily so much 'misunderstood' as co-opted to attempt to describe metaphysical qualities/attributes that we 3Ders don't have words for (yet), so we resort to borrowing them from the physicality describing language.

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    Some recent 'angles of angels' from the geometric flight instructors....
    This was last Sunday afternoon, they were high up, and directed me to look for 'V' shapes in the clouds, that they were nearby. In the second pic, I've drawn in the V's and the angle of the ship....from the ship's position to the upper V measures 73 degrees. I've gone back over lots of photos the last week - protractor pressed to the laptop screen, lol - and the recurrence of certain angles suddenly clicked for me. Lots with between 70-74 degree range, also 36 and 144, or within 1-2 degrees. The 'almost but not quite' repetition is a visual message that humanity is not quite 'there' but getting closer to convergence ie; synchronization with higher dimensional 'frequencies'....







    I've posted about this ship at this link, for those interested: http://heartstar.org/2015/10/15/ligh...-the-ahuratua/

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  19. #115
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    Quote Originally posted by Joanna
    ...maybe not necessarily so much 'misunderstood' as co-opted to attempt to describe metaphysical qualities/attributes that we 3Ders don't have words for (yet), so we resort to borrowing them from the physicality describing language.
    The very nature of language is to communicate idea [in mind] by references made possible by our ability to think abstractly. If you do not have shared references, then communication breaks down. Furthermore, shared references are often presumed, and where such a presumption breaks down, communication also breaks down.

    For example, if I tell you there is a blue sky outside and the birds are out, you can well understand what I am saying as you have experience of those things. If I where to tell that to a person who was born blind, it would mean something quite different, the terms would be associated with sensations rather than sights. The sensation of sunlight on skin, the sounds of birds chirping or squawking, and perhaps other manner of a pleasant environment as experienced by someone deprived of sight.

    So to say that frequency and vibration are terms that are misunderstood and confused with tone, is to say much about the very reference and how incomplete or irregular it may be. That is not necessarily to say that people have an incomplete experience as they may be using different terms or fulfil their experience in other more personal ways, but it would not be a stretch to imagine that indeed such experiences are curtailed as well.

    And indeed as terms are circulated they lose their meaning insofar as the references behind the experience referenced by the term fades or changes.

    And indeed, perhaps it is for this reason that ancient language or hieroglyphs are so likened to code; our experience just doesn't have the same references (meanings).

    Those images are interesting, but (as I'm attempting to elaborate above), I don't have reference to discern meaning or understanding from the angles you are seeing. The pattern in the image of clouds you share is not recognizable to me. I would say it is a coincidence, but only if you understand that I use the term in a way that does not imply randomness. Ie I think you found something in the sky that is very interesting to investigate and elaborate on.

    Addendum

    In terms of the 36 72 72 golden triangle, and references, it seem the spiral is definitely a reference of some kind. We have made reference to another triangle, the golden gnome 36 36 108 triangle, of which the spiral does not pass though. The references we have made thus far, regarding this 'heart' and how something incomplete fits as part of the complete and becomes whole.

    The center of the spiral is not found in a geometric center of the golden triangle. This dis-equilibrium is an interesting aspect that I think plays a part in molecular structure. Indeed if any examination of vibration can be made in a meaningful way, this geometry should be included in considerations. And indeed any presumption suggesting the nucleus is in the center of an atom need be challenged; this inherent imbalance becomes an area to examine materials in interesting ways.
    Last edited by lcam88, 19th October 2015 at 14:17. Reason: Addendum

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  21. #116
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    Quote Originally posted by lcam88 View Post
    The very nature of language is to communicate idea [in mind] by references made possible by our ability to think abstractly. If you do not have shared references, then communication breaks down. Furthermore, shared references are often presumed, and where such a presumption breaks down, communication also breaks down.

    For example, if I tell you there is a blue sky outside and the birds are out, you can well understand what I am saying as you have experience of those things. If I where to tell that to a person who was born blind, it would mean something quite different, the terms would be associated with sensations rather than sights. The sensation of sunlight on skin, the sounds of birds chirping or squawking, and perhaps other manner of a pleasant environment as experienced by someone deprived of sight.

    So to say that frequency and vibration are terms that are misunderstood and confused with tone, is to say much about the very reference and how incomplete or irregular it may be. That is not necessarily to say that people have an incomplete experience as they may be using different terms or fulfil their experience in other more personal ways, but it would not be a stretch to imagine that indeed such experiences are curtailed as well.

    And indeed as terms are circulated they lose their meaning insofar as the references behind the experience referenced by the term fades or changes.

    And indeed, perhaps it is for this reason that ancient language or hieroglyphs are so likened to code; our experience just doesn't have the same references (meanings).

    Those images are interesting, but (as I'm attempting to elaborate above), I don't have reference to discern meaning or understanding from the angles you are seeing. The pattern in the image of clouds you share is not recognizable to me. I would say it is a coincidence, but only if you understand that I use the term in a way that does not imply randomness. Ie I think you found something in the sky that is very interesting to investigate and elaborate on.

    Addendum

    In terms of the 36 72 72 golden triangle, and references, it seem the spiral is definitely a reference of some kind. We have made reference to another triangle, the golden gnome 36 36 108 triangle, of which the spiral does not pass though. The references we have made thus far, regarding this 'heart' and how something incomplete fits as part of the complete and becomes whole.

    The center of the spiral is not found in a geometric center of the golden triangle. This dis-equilibrium is an interesting aspect that I think plays a part in molecular structure. Indeed if any examination of vibration can be made in a meaningful way, this geometry should be included in considerations. And indeed any presumption suggesting the nucleus is in the center of an atom need be challenged; this inherent imbalance becomes an area to examine materials in interesting ways.
    Communication through images also relies on shared referents, yet perhaps has more openness to interpretation than language. Regarding the photo I posted above, our interpretation of it shows our different frames of reference, and the sense perceptions, experiences, views, thought modes, and feelings that have shaped them...
    In relation to seeing through 'the Veil', the first ship sighting I had shook the beliefs that had (consciously and unconsciously) shaped my frame of reference, and later contact exposed and changed it completely and, I would say, irrevocably....

    Your words about the geometric center of the Golden Triangle, dis-equilibrium, and the presumption of the nucleus being in the centre of an atom just made me think of/see the image below; not quite what you're meaning, perhaps, but then a rose's spiral expresses the golden ratio - where the 'nucleus' is presumed generally to be in the centre (if we think of the 'normal' image of a 'perfect rose'). Yet more rarely, roses can have a double or even triple spiral centre - now, suddenly, the mind's image of the perfect rose is shaken - perhaps even changed - by a spiral that no longer opens into a single vortex (or nucleic centre), yet is completely encompassed, by the expanded and more intricate growth of its petals. Visually, there can 'appear' to be a dis-equilibrium to the mind that is holding a template of the perfect single vortex rose spiral....but the rose doesn't know that, and embraces the second or third vortices, containing them with ease in its now expanded petal formation. It's still a whole Rose, every petal (or angle within the spiral) in place, fitting into/with the others. Inherent seeming imbalance is balanced, in the whole....


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    ... and even considering a rose with a single center, that center may still only be approximately in the center.

    This all is not to say dis-equilbrium is somehow inferior or even unbalanced. Just different in a surprising and interesting way.

    Perhaps what is certainly an interesting contemplation to share, regarding your double spiraled rose, is one of reference. We may be seeing two spirals, and both flow in the same direction, and indeed they both represent rose as much as any single spiraled budding may. The only difference is we are more accustomed to seen rose buds more distant from one another as they may grow on the plant.

    As I dwell on the hydrogen nuclei in the oxygen container, perhaps the pair do not reside in exactly the same "orbital position" between the two electron shells, perhaps one may be moving slightly faster, dragging the other along, perhaps that energetic difference is exchanged and even, perhaps their motion is affected by motions within the oxygen nuclei. Those are aspects of imperfection analogous to the dis-equilibrium type visual of a double spiraled rose shocking our idea of what is a "normal image".

    Perhaps even there is a state of less probably dis-equilibrium that is sustainable (the 72º split for example)?

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    Twins, Siamese twins.

    I have seen the following has been reported a few times but it is fairly rare. We used to keep a few chickens, and one day (this was 30 something something years ago) ...one day one of the hens (of which it we could not tell - surprisingly) laid an egg which was about 5 inches long and in proportion to the standard egg proportions. When my father 'blew' the egg.. as in pierced a hole in each end and blow from the top hole to empty it.. it emptied a bit before stopping, seemingly blocked. Eventually the decision was made to cut around the circumference and open it. Inside, the egg had egg white, but instead of a yoke, it had a normal sized egg! which when 'blown' emptied out an egg white and a yoke.

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    Quote Originally posted by lcam88 View Post
    ... and even considering a rose with a single center, that center may still only be approximately in the center.

    This all is not to say dis-equilbrium is somehow inferior or even unbalanced. Just different in a surprising and interesting way.

    Perhaps what is certainly an interesting contemplation to share, regarding your double spiraled rose, is one of reference. We may be seeing two spirals, and both flow in the same direction, and indeed they both represent rose as much as any single spiraled budding may. The only difference is we are more accustomed to seen rose buds more distant from one another as they may grow on the plant.

    As I dwell on the hydrogen nuclei in the oxygen container, perhaps the pair do not reside in exactly the same "orbital position" between the two electron shells, perhaps one may be moving slightly faster, dragging the other along, perhaps that energetic difference is exchanged and even, perhaps their motion is affected by motions within the oxygen nuclei. Those are aspects of imperfection analogous to the dis-equilibrium type visual of a double spiraled rose shocking our idea of what is a "normal image".

    Perhaps even there is a state of less probably dis-equilibrium that is sustainable (the 72º split for example)?
    lcam, apologies for this late reply. Just reflecting on what you've said, about dis-equilibrium, and the double spiralled rose above....another way to see it than in the context of equilibrium v. disequilibrium, is as a multi-equilibrium, in perfect harmony within itself. Perhaps even moreso with a triple-centered or quadruple-centered rose, it's easier to see the 'multi' at work....like parallel universes, all perfectly 'entangled', quantumly speaking, yet all nested within the greater whole....because the multi-centered rose is still One Rose. So I look at this, and see galactic superclusters, and parallel universes nested in the multiverse....
    And multi-equilibrium is eminently sustainable...
    The 'goldenprint' returns....

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    Quote Originally posted by Nothing View Post
    Twins, Siamese twins.

    I have seen the following has been reported a few times but it is fairly rare. We used to keep a few chickens, and one day (this was 30 something something years ago) ...one day one of the hens (of which it we could not tell - surprisingly) laid an egg which was about 5 inches long and in proportion to the standard egg proportions. When my father 'blew' the egg.. as in pierced a hole in each end and blow from the top hole to empty it.. it emptied a bit before stopping, seemingly blocked. Eventually the decision was made to cut around the circumference and open it. Inside, the egg had egg white, but instead of a yoke, it had a normal sized egg! which when 'blown' emptied out an egg white and a yoke.
    Wow! An egg within an egg...
    Ah, a lovely metaphor...for dimensions nested inside dimensions....

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