Seeing through 'The Veil'

[Joanna]

Thanks for that Joanna, I still haven't solidified what I was trying to say but that sort of goes a way towards it.
I guess the subject of the veil might be sliding around a bit. And the subject of who we are and where we have been and where we are going all comes into it. Are we standing where in the here and now? The image of the field with the barn in it I gave. The outside fence, the maze of the field, this can be enough of a hurdle to get past maybe in the discussion. Meaning the outer illusion I guess, the distortions created by self and others. The manipulation that has put up further layers of.. a veil. Layers of persona etc. I am not saying these things are necessary. I am not saying any of it is really necessary. As mentioned by lcam, it becomes a point of deciding on belief of "What it is all about" for some parts of the decision on if it is or has been necessary. Probably the more superficial point I was trying to make is said by you in regards to the game of polarities.
And it goes back to if it is a necessity or not and that depends on the actual true landscape our fleshy bodies are born into. For all the claims of this and that by different people, I myself still refuse to collapse that quantum question into a single surety. I see the benefits of a veil in a scenario when a race has fallen from grace for instance, and certain power in the wrong hands needs to be avoided. At this point it sounds contradictory, certain power perhaps already being in the wrong hands I hear said, and yes I agree what I am saying is likely flawed. I guess I have in the back of my mind the notion that certain gifts are not given until the receiver has passed certain tests of their alignment. Again I have made a mash of that, and am aware there are contradictions of sorts. In the current realm or whatever it is, would we appreciate love without the experiences of the other polarities. Yes the polarity game is still there.
When we say, "Lifting the veil - how do we lift the veil" is it because the time is right now, or should it never have been there, even just in the smallest way. I know this could be misleading but involuntary movements like blinking and breathing, are sort of things that are firewalled from our consciousness. So the notion is somewhat a natural one. As bodies in a 3 dimensional space.
I am successfully confusing myself a little here, but I will continue to mention these things into the pool, even if it is just as the struggling student asking dumb questions.

Nothing, those are not dumb questions at all, the Veil is prone to sliding around a lot; especially under scrutiny, it becomes ever more slippery, as it is designed to elude the mind's gaze, and thereby capture it. I mean this on the 'small' scale of the persona, because the ego-mind will do everything to keep the 'realism' of the persona intact and in charge...and on the 'big' scale of collective consensus reality, which involves both the limited frequency-recognition/mapping of the physical senses and the captivation of the inner Eye with 'astral projections', so to speak.

As to necessity, perhaps feel into this; the polarity 'game' - I prefer the term polarity experience - is not, in itself, inherently about struggle or 'lessons through suffering' etc. There may be, and in my view have been, other planets where the experience of contrasts we know as polarity, is a quite different and gentler experience. The contrast between drinking a hot cup of tea and cold glass of wine, for example, is an experience of the polarity of hot/cold which is far different to being burned alive or dying of exposure. The first type of hot/cold experience can be found on a planet where the polarity is in a soft expression, the latter only where the polarity has been pushed to its extremes, into survival, life or death, love or fear.
Is the 'polarity see-saw' gently moving with the breeze, or is it rocking up and down wildly and throwing off its 'players'?
In 3D wisdom, when someone is no longer attached to the 'excitement' or the 'realism' of the wild ups and downs, the next stage is they will choose to perch themselves on the midpoint of see-saw, the still point in the centre and be 'neutral', playing neither light nor dark, good nor bad, hot nor cold. They will learn to balance, between the poles. If they then get attached to that still point, and are enjoying being in 'the eye of the cyclone', then they will remain within the 3D centre of the polarity, which is still 'inside the veil', yet capable of seeing through it, or putting their ear to it, and listening to the 'other side'.
Higher dimensional viewing/experiencing goes beyond; it is centered, but simultaneously it is encompassing the entire polarity, and can 'see' it from the other side of the veil at the same moment as from the inside...and when that happens, then the veil drops away. At that stage, the polarity doesn't have a hold on you anymore, but connectedness, your connection to everything, the pure merging of cause and effect, becomes your experience. At least, that is my feeling, someone else might describe it differently as we are all unique experiencers!

[enjoy being]

It was in and around these comments that prompted several things.

Generally speaking, beings who keep knowledge 'secret' in order to use (misuse) it for power/control over others are themselves caught in an illusion of their own devising - because to feel the need for that kind of control already implies a feeling of lack of safety, of fear of something, which means they are already in a state of separation or splitting, and therefore are subject to a certain level of illusion. The Veil has many layers...kind of 'The Dance of 7 Veils', or is that 7000?

Fundamentally, all of this logical rationalization does not help you actually experience. The understanding alone is not complete feeling and experience of what is real. Queue intuition and not letting your survival faculties (ego, desire and even logic) interfere with what there is to find. Maybe?

Indeed, to 'desire', 'want' and 'seek' are projections of your energy outward. The energy of 'allowing' (which includes trust) aligns the natural Mag-net-ic flow to curve toward you-as-a-point-of-pure-convergence. Desiring, wanting, and seeking are based on hope, faith and belief. Allowing is based on knowing. They are all, of course, valid states of journeying and experience...
Life everlasting is immediately 'felt' when we stop trying to elude death, and stop fearing it, or what will come after it. Ancient cultures that knew about Life still ultimately fell into obsessions with death and cults of the afterlife, under the influence of the veil of forgetting....

Perhaps that is interesting to me only; but we grow up with this idea of being an individual, separate from everyone else. Distinct. Where we are drawn to answer the question you pose in reference to how we find ourself to be separate and distinct. Therein lies a belief in our mind that causes us not to perceive or notice or even be aware what else there may be.

I really like the correlations you make with desire, want and seek with hope, faith and belief.

Knowing.

Fear of death, the knowing of death. The Aboriginal creation story contains, from memory a tale of no knowledge of death, so no one died? There is also associated with that section of the story, the beast associated with the first knowledge of death being locked in a great pit blocked by the rock, Uluru? The rock becoming of dual meaning, the one of it being a momento of the existence of death. The worlds first tombstone.

Fear of death. This is a very time consuming pastime for many, I have noted. Once one decides they don't want to die, they begin to try and get the most out of life, they start lumping expectations on life, and all number of things can manifest from their endeavors. Their will onto others, all that sort of 'distractive' experience. It sure is one huge maze that could almost work all by itself as a veil without any other motivator. All the miscellaneous things. The popularity of the term, bucket list. Homage to silently re-inforcing a 'fear' of death.

Trust, knowing. Going with the flow. Being in the awareness that cause and reaction have got it under control, and to try and fix things out of fear, or fear evoked good intentions, thinking YOU have got it covered, can add more tangles needing to be worked through. The master meddler. Edward Scissorhands reaching out to comfort the pale cheek. The butterfly effect.


Veils. 7-7000 slippery shifting veils. Communication. I am often fairly accutely aware of those who are not posting. Even as a lurker, even when I am not posting I am aware of the others.
Maybe more so in another forum where this kind of talk is too 'way out' for the crowd. The way that people communicate with each other on topics have invisible positive and negative reinforcements. By experiencing as a watcher, if you are not aware you can pick up more tangled layerings roadblocks in thought, herding of behaviour.

A dear departed friend keeps reminding me to mention his big crazy spiel he gave me. He say he knows everyone thought he was mad and he agrees he did have his moments. The crazy bit is being mentioned because his spiel was not totally correct but they'll know what he means.
One day, he came out with this revelation, I'm trying to recall it, but it doesn't matter how it came about, I remember he was quite excited. "We are all just stuck in Kane's dream, stuck repeating things if need be, trying to keep out of trouble and wait it out for a chance when Kane might wake up. He has so many things to work through and we are all here as part of it".
Coma. In the land of Nod. Noddy of the night cap. The flaccid pointy hat.

There was another bit in the list, I'll have to think about it.

[lcam88]

"We are all just stuck in Kane's dream, stuck repeating things if need be, trying to keep out of trouble and wait it out for a chance when Kane might wake up. He has so many things to work through and we are all here as part of it".

Is this Kane the same as in the biblical story, where he kills his brother?

Your observations about death and humankinds modern day reaction is indeed sharp.

Trust, knowing. Going with the flow. Being in the awareness that cause and reaction have got it under control, and to try and fix things out of fear, or fear evoked good intentions, thinking YOU have got it covered, can add more tangles needing to be worked through. The master meddler.

I pose a question: Why do we fixate on the idea that we must _go_ somewhere when we die? Can it be that we already are exactly where we need to be?

And this trend continues in forums, about other planets, stars, about who what and when... to secure, to find, to overcome... and all for what?

[enjoy being]

Hi, lcam. Yes that reference about my old departed friends story was about the biblical Cain. I misspelled it. Neither he nor I are followers of the biblical really. His story does not slot directly into the that in the bible. Cain and Abel were the sons of Adam and Eve, and they fought over things like brothers do. The reason Cain killed his brother was due to greed and jealousy. From having an attitude of lack... there are a number of things which could be extrapolated out of the dynamic which brought about the murder. These attributes I feel were noted in my friend's revelation. He saw the dynamic as the same which keeps brother fighting brother nation vs nation.
Cain was banished to the land of Nod. The land of Nod was a land of wandering in isolation, of being cut off from 'god'. In later centuries, The Land of Nod, has begun to mean sleeping or dreaming. Cut off from the awoken.
So it was this friends own conceptual masterpiece to conclude the analogy that we may well all just be in Cains land of the nod, lost and seeking a way to wake up. Redemption.
I feel my description here may have diluted the intention he had in mentioning it.

I pose a question: Why do we fixate on the idea that we must _go_ somewhere when we die? Can it be that we already are exactly where we need to be?

And this trend continues in forums, about other planets, stars, about who what and when... to secure, to find, to overcome... and all for what?

I think of the circus elephant. Trained from a young age that the chain on its foot going to the peg in the ground will not let it escape. The truth is that the elephant at any time could just walk off and drag the peg from the ground. But, from human view anyway, we think it thinks it cannot free itself.

I think the seeking of exits, yearning for answers is residual knowledge that we are more than what we see. Before I was 10 I had realised that humans had some sort of amnesia. And had been confused as to why we are not equipped for our environment like all other creatures on Earth. Somewhere in there is a drive to seek the answer to the puzzle. The lure of this sense of loss is very powerful and I get your meaning in how the search keeps going, like a fidget. A need to explore elsewhere for pieces of the puzzle. It has taken many many centuries to have the people on the ground who are all capable of understanding all these levels of thought. A past where complex dynamics could not be understood, because many were illiterate. The past is unknown as to if we (version 2 or 3) ever were "up there" and fell. Or if it was others. The current present shows evolution in consciousness. Fractal or holographic theories would have our individual shadow selves symbolising and equal universal or global shadow self.
In corporations, those who rise to the table of the board, TEND to be those who will do what others wont. Those with no conscience, those who backstab and cheat, and lie, and can still smile at their victims. They are placed their by "natural selection", our worst or our best psychopaths. They are teaching us something somewhere about ourselves as the universal. Yet for the most, we want to flee or remove them. Picking a scab before it is time.
The domino pictures. Those amazing displays. Not until the final pieces are placed should the first one be toppled else the display will not reach all areas of the layout, and we miss out on some of the show, having to wait for it to all be rebuilt again.

[lcam88]

Nod - a moment when sleep sets in. Indeed upon seeing the word, that idea came to mind. Thanks for the extra context you share in your description. It did not dilute the meaning at all. At the risk of further diluting your idea I present the following metaphor:



An attitude of lacking, metaphorically, would be the 36, 36 108 triangle that is not "all inclusive" The center of the spiral outside the bound of the triangle. Obtuse. (top left undivided triangle)

Rather than the 36 72 72 triangle that is inclusive, center of spiral within the bound. Acute.

I think of the circus elephant. Trained from a young age that the chain on its foot going to the peg in the ground will not let it escape. The truth is that the elephant at any time could just walk off and drag the peg from the ground. But, from human view anyway, we think it thinks it cannot free itself.

If the elephant did that, it would be punished. Elephant memory is very sharp indeed. In a way he peg is a symbol of everything that separates pain and suffering from "harmony and tranquility", to disrupt the peg is a choice made that comes with a reaction of the keepers. A type of prison. We are in a very similar prison too, one defined by pride and money. Like the elephant, we cannot react hard and fast enough to overcome the level of force or the amount of time our non-conformance is likely to conjure.

Our fear, perhaps like the fear of pain or ropes the elephant might have, is suffering and death. On many an occasion it has been mentioned that suicide, or taking of one's life is _bad_, it is a "cowardly" path when faced with suffering, torture or otherwise followed by uncertain death. And I had contemplated, what about letting yourself die? Perhaps by defying your handlers, or perhaps by simply "stopping". And in a way, that is what victims do, the Palestinians for example. Seeking of other exits...

... indeed your views are quite spot on.

From an angle of absolute love, considering humanity as a whole and where we may inflect on that idea, that each member of humanity voluntarily knows his/her part and faces it completely. Just as palestinians would throw themselves to Israeli mercy the way they do, knowing what is to come is indeed the elephant ignoring the peg. And there are so many other occasions where we find the 36 36 108 inadequate for our values, and we then throw ourselves to the mercy or responsibility of something more than otherwise we may feel obligated to be burdened with. Drugs, alcohol etc.

Perhaps it is in seeking exits, to pick the scab or to fight back-stabbers, cheaters and liars is to try and insulate ourselves from what we truly are, that we wear the 36 36 108.

Perhaps the other way is to we accept what we are, as humans, embrace our nature of being the back-stabbers, cheaters and liars within ourselves, so as to permit ourselves to be the complete 36 72 72. We may find it in ourselves, not to forgive or forget, but to show that lying, cheating and back-stabbing is just not as important to us anymore. Is that a way to awaken from our Nod?

[Dreamtimer]

I've grown to think of death not as going somewhere, but as changing. I'll be in a different state. Where I 'go' will be up to me. I'm not required to submit to direction.

[lcam88]

Pardon me, Dreamtimer, if some of the ideas I try to share are unclear. I find that sometimes my expressions don't fully convey what I mean. I get the feeling you understood what I was trying to say.

And as I try yet again to verbalize the idea, I arrive at another metaphor perhaps more convoluted then the one above, filled with words that are loaded, and perhaps focused on a contradiction.

To surrender is not really to surrender, to surrender to the inner self is meaningless unless inner self means something. And for it to mean anything you must know who you are... Metaphorically, all that I'm saying is just like "walking the triangle", one step at a time, towards the heart where the spiral may take you. The meaning and what may be associated during each step of this "surrender", can be any type of dichotomy where some minority portion and some majority portion finds harmony and meaning with the other.

Queue the idea of Palestine and Israel, the murder and the victim, the rabbit and to fox, the bacterium and the cell, logic and intuition, heart and mind. air and water...

That triangle is indeed something enigmatic. Thanks for sharing that, Joanna.

I am no closer to actually verbalizing the metaphor of the 36 36 108 triangle expanding, transforming, harmonizing or surrendering to embody the 36 72 72 that I had tried to explain above, am I?

And yet, inevitably we will face the next 36 36 108 that appears before us... Another surrender? I hate that word. To surrender to a new idea or revelation is a convoluted notion indeed.

Dreamtimer, in common parlance, people say they "go" somewhere. Nobody talks about where the volition to move comes from.

Your declaration of not being requirement to submit [to direction] is an interesting turn in my understandings of this.

As I see it, direction is irrelevant, _that_ is the trick, the only relevant issue is whether to stay or to go, on the plain of planetary motion around the sun, the moon always blocks your path, it's appearance in that sun-simulating vibration blinds you from finding the actual sun, much like how the sun would blind you if you attempt to gaze at it with your own eyes. You only see it because you are aware of something bright overhead or near the focus of your vision, and not because you actually look at it. (I have actually looked, very beautiful, but you can go blind).

EDIT

My father once told me that in old times, medieval times perhaps, a punishment for someone who did not observe law, social norms or contract terms would be to force them to look at the sun for some long duration of time so that they would indeed go at least partially blind. I only gazed upon it for maybe 2 or 5 minutes as a 4 or 5 year old child, and I can still see it before me when I close my eyes.

[Dreamtimer]

lcam88, I never stared at the sun that long. My parents were very clear about not doing that. I have looked long enough to have a temporary imprint, not a permanent one.

The volition to move is the will. What is the will? Isn't it the self? Isn't it awareness combined with desire and need?

As much as people seek to meditate and clear the mind, the larger part of our existence is about action.

BTW, I love and am still thinking about what you said regarding the obtuse and acute triangles.

I was thinking of direction from outside source, as in command. Where I 'go' and what I 'do' will be my own volition. (At least that's my intention).

[lcam88]

Dreamtimer:

I only see it when I close my eyes; a mild impression only. I'm glad it is there to keep me company.

I'm not sure whether the will is the self. I once had an experience there I acted out of pure intuitive impulse. I only realized afterwards how urgent the situation really was... Self and will are definitely not the same.

Do tell me your contemplations about obtuse vs acute. I'm most curious to hear.

+1 about direction and do/go. Most people speak as though the decision has already been made. That is my whole point, I'm glad you are deciding to decide for yourself; I would welcome good company.

[Dreamtimer]

I have a story to tell about the goings on before and beyond the veil. Background: my mother passed away several years ago as did my brother-in-law. Unrelated events. My sister-in-law has been my best friend since adolescence. My brother and I have a house we inherited in San Diego.

My sister-in-law had a psychic come to the house to help a friend of hers. When the psychic walked in, the first thing she said was that my brother-in-law was watching over my niece. (She had been having some troubles). That was pretty amazing.

Later, when the psychic used the bathroom she came out asking who was the elegant older woman. It was my mother. The psychic asked about the little white dog that was with her. Her Westie.

At this point my sister-in-law is pretty amazed 'cause she's never spoken of these things to the psychic. The psychic tells her that my mother likes the room upstairs and she's glad it wasn't changed. My sister-in-law asked about the new room downstairs that was to be the new Master Bedroom when my mother was still living. The psychic said, "Oh no, she doesn't like that room."

The hilarious thing here is that my sister in-law was all upset that my mom didn't like the room. She had taken over when my mom passed and finished it. She had worked very hard to make it look nice and keep my mother's vision.

My brother and I understood right away. She doesn't like the room because that's where my Dad slept with his new wife!

So I can say that this psychic, for one, knows her stuff and is, so to speak, the real deal.

[Joanna]

Your pardon is well received, ma'am. An honor indeed.

If you look closely, there is another golden triangle to be found:



36º 36º 108º isosceles where the center point of the spiral is outside this triangle.



Wow! I didn't understand anything you said. Reference misalignments I think.

1. What do you mean "polarity divides from the Source Alignment"? What is Source Alignment?

2. Can you elaborate a bit about the flattening of Life frequencies? Vibration, by nature transcends dimensionality in that a wave in 3D continues to have oscillatory components with similar characteristics in 2D and even 1D if you where to quantify movement on a single point. Is it this idea in reverse that you mean to suggest with "flatten"? Further extending the analogy of an ordinary 3D wave, you can add a rotational component to a transverse or longitudinal wave and a 4D wave expression appears (rotation, spiral, Rose...). Mr Harald Krautz-Vella goes into wave cancelation (annihilation) as another dimension transcending wave property.

3. Magnetics are about orthogonal energy relationships (motions). Electricity and magnetism as defined by the right-hand-rule, but perhaps electro-magnetism is not the only orthogonal energy relationship. Perhaps logic and intuition are also orthogonal?

More subtle maybe, but also much more energy dense If aspects of what I know are actually true.

Fundamentally, all of this logical rationalization does not help you actually experience. The understanding alone is not complete feeling and experience of what is real. Queue intuition and not letting your survival faculties (ego, desire and even logic) interfere with what there is to find. Maybe?

lcam88, will come back to these musings/questions later. The orthagonal nature of magnetic 'relationships/motions' is profound and I'd like to feel into how to respond, more deeply. Haha yes, let's queue intuition.....

[lcam88]

Dreamtimer,

Maybe I do not understand "self" the way you do. Perhaps the word has too much of a Freudian inflection to me; a side of the term I'm inclined to disown and yet perhaps still cling to.

Thanks for the story; it challenges a lot of my assumptions indeed. You have my attention.

[Joanna]

It was in and around these comments that prompted several things.










Fear of death, the knowing of death. The Aboriginal creation story contains, from memory a tale of no knowledge of death, so no one died? There is also associated with that section of the story, the beast associated with the first knowledge of death being locked in a great pit blocked by the rock, Uluru? The rock becoming of dual meaning, the one of it being a momento of the existence of death. The worlds first tombstone.

Fear of death. This is a very time consuming pastime for many, I have noted. Once one decides they don't want to die, they begin to try and get the most out of life, they start lumping expectations on life, and all number of things can manifest from their endeavors. Their will onto others, all that sort of 'distractive' experience. It sure is one huge maze that could almost work all by itself as a veil without any other motivator. All the miscellaneous things. The popularity of the term, bucket list. Homage to silently re-inforcing a 'fear' of death.

Trust, knowing. Going with the flow. Being in the awareness that cause and reaction have got it under control, and to try and fix things out of fear, or fear evoked good intentions, thinking YOU have got it covered, can add more tangles needing to be worked through. The master meddler. Edward Scissorhands reaching out to comfort the pale cheek. The butterfly effect.


Veils. 7-7000 slippery shifting veils. Communication. I am often fairly accutely aware of those who are not posting. Even as a lurker, even when I am not posting I am aware of the others.
Maybe more so in another forum where this kind of talk is too 'way out' for the crowd. The way that people communicate with each other on topics have invisible positive and negative reinforcements. By experiencing as a watcher, if you are not aware you can pick up more tangled layerings roadblocks in thought, herding of behaviour.

A dear departed friend keeps reminding me to mention his big crazy spiel he gave me. He say he knows everyone thought he was mad and he agrees he did have his moments. The crazy bit is being mentioned because his spiel was not totally correct but they'll know what he means.
One day, he came out with this revelation, I'm trying to recall it, but it doesn't matter how it came about, I remember he was quite excited. "We are all just stuck in Kane's dream, stuck repeating things if need be, trying to keep out of trouble and wait it out for a chance when Kane might wake up. He has so many things to work through and we are all here as part of it".
Coma. In the land of Nod. Noddy of the night cap. The flaccid pointy hat.

There was another bit in the list, I'll have to think about it.

Interesting comment about Uluru, the 'red heart' of this continent. The way you put it is salutary; 'the beast associated with the first knowledge of death being locked in a great pit, blocked with the rock'...if memory serves, the beast was a serpent (waugal/dragon), and the Australian Aboriginals were not alone in associating mortality with a serpent....yet, in this duality world, the creative force of the Dreaming was the Rainbow Serpent, and waugals are the spirit consciousness+energy flow of the dragon paths, the ley lines of the subtle energy grid within the physical landscape....and the locking down of those beings=darkening of the energy paths/flows=stagnancy and death....

Re the land of Nod and the 'sleep' of the inner awareness that keeps one from being conditioned/programmed/herded....your analogy of the flaccid night cap/sublime triangle pointy hat makes me smile, so right you are...for under that 'veil of sleep', the pine cone on the hatstand does indeed hold the 'code' of the golden ratio...

[Joanna]

Nod - a moment when sleep sets in. Indeed upon seeing the word, that idea came to mind. Thanks for the extra context you share in your description. It did not dilute the meaning at all. At the risk of further diluting your idea I present the following metaphor:



An attitude of lacking, metaphorically, would be the 36, 36 108 triangle that is not "all inclusive" The center of the spiral outside the bound of the triangle. Obtuse. (top left undivided triangle)

Rather than the 36 72 72 triangle that is inclusive, center of spiral within the bound. Acute.

'Obtuse' is also used to mean witless or stubbornly ignorant ie; the 'sleeping' mindstate, unaware....that which is in resistance, albeit subconscious, to knowing itself as within the whole - for the obtuse triangle defines itself as different to the Sublime, yet is always within it, as the 36 72 72 keeps wrapping it, and wrapping it, like a rose....

[lcam88]

Yes indeed it does Joanna. Almost a metaphor of humanity, as we may experience it today. The triangle is almost a map in the sense you make of it. The heart (spiral) is not to be found within the obtuse.