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Thread: On Instinct

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    Senior Member donk's Avatar
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    On Instinct

    When thinking about loops, and how we seem to be caught endless cycles….yet tell ourselves we create reality, I started thinking about instincts.

    My understanding of “instincts” is that they are the default actions of the vehicle we call “our body” to specific external stimuli.

    We just accept that our bodies just happen to do them. That they are like death and taxes, there’s no escaping and no way to get through the complexity of them to understand why they are such a force in our lives.

    I got to thinking, maybe that’s what keep stuck in loops…the facts that we allow for a reality where instincts “just are”…even though if we thought about it for two seconds…the fact that we as a species are able to transcend them is what allows us to differentiate us (most people consider it “beign better/higher order” than) from “animals” (or lower species).

    We lie to ourselves about the fact that these vehicles are multidimensional infinite universes in themselves. It seems like communities of brain cells behave in a particular whenever certain conditions are met…ordering another community (the organ at the other end of the neuerons) to act.

    If we believe that all things (particularly living ones) have a level consciousness, it seems like the cells that make up our body are slaves to something or caught in loops where it doesn’t occur to them to make a different discion….or do they??

    Isn’t what makes us the dominator of all other earth species our ability to transcend the survival level (best described by Maslow’s hierarchy of needs) in order to shape our reality into away that in a lot of ways goes AGAINST those “survival instincts” we may not be exactly looking at in an empowering way?

    Doesn’t it seem like control of another’s instincts is the root of ALL of the “problems” we talk about facing as a species? Isn’t the most effective “mind control” to place an (irrational, disempowering) emotional attachment to our survival instincts?

    I mean fight or flight fear response is an effective survival mechanism in the wild or faced in certain situations, though it seems that something/someone with a better understanding has twisted this instinct to emotionally attach it to such irrational ideas of losing a sh!tty job we feel we need.

    It seems like we’ve been tricked into thinking “you are what you eat” is a cute euphemism, and not one of the most important truths we could possibly understand.

    And if we can be emotionally manipulated into defending eating poison and acting on irrational fear…how easy would it be to implant higher order “instincts” or even abstract contrusts…like “controlling” or “following” others?

    In light of our treatment of other “lower” species, isn’t it time we start viewing our reality from a position where there’s the possibility that something has happened that we don’t easily recognize (like my attempt to train my dog to relieve itself outside).

    Not that all of the manipulation is “bad” or even disempowering…but wouldn’t it be universally (to our species) empowering and desirable to have a better idea of why our bodies behave the way they do, rather than just accepting that it is just how it is? Do we really believe that there is a purpose for everything, a knowable reason? Do we all just believe in random, coincidence?

    …I’m having a hard time with that, myself…
    What is the purpose of your presence?

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    Quote Originally posted by donk View Post
    Doesn’t it seem like control of another’s instincts is the root of ALL of the “problems” we talk about facing as a species? Isn’t the most effective “mind control” to place an (irrational, disempowering) emotional attachment to our survival instincts?
    Thats an interesting thought Donk ...

    “It is impossible to overlook the extent to which civilization is built up upon a renunciation of instinct....”
    ― Sigmund Freud, Civilization and Its Discontents

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    For me, instincts go way beyond the 'fight or flight' reaction.

    My instincts have saved my life. They've always helped me reach the better decision or take the better action. The hard part was going along with them when my rational, logical mind was telling me to do something else, along with the people around me and my emotions and whatever other forces were at play.

    They're not simply a primitive human characteristic. They're a tremendously powerful ability that I believe we should all value.

    You have to know yourself. And you have to learn to listen to/hear your instincts, particularly if it hasn't been a habit or way. A mon avis.

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    Senior Member donk's Avatar
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    I think of instincts as follows:

    Fight/flight response to threats that will harm you
    Eating/drinking
    Reproduction

    you want to continue to think of them as phenomena that "just happen" and we should listen to, "knowing ourselves"...I postulate that something else understands them more deeply than that, and that they have been attacked by weaponized ideas that create emotional attachments that lead to self destructive disempowering behaviors

    I was suggesting an idea that I had (another phenomenon I like to explore, but perhaps for another thread) that maybe if we view our bodies differently than we've taught, we may understand the relationships...between us and our bodies, our bodies and the environment, our "mind" and "heart"....I feel like we take all these for granted...and wonder if something/someone else exploits that
    Last edited by donk, 8th July 2015 at 15:04.
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    I've spoken of this in other threads....

    My dreams play a very big role in influencing my instincts. I am exploring possibilities in dreams. They are innumerable, thus I'm unable to recall them all. My instincts guide me. I know instinctively that something is the right thing to do because I can feel it.

    My phrase about knowing yourself comes from that experience.

    You seem to be talking more about what are called basic human instincts/needs. I'd name your list 'drives' rather than instincts.

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    Senior Member donk's Avatar
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    Here is the common defintion, that comes up when you google the word:

    an innate, typically fixed pattern of behavior in animals in response to certain stimuli


    For further clarification, I will refer to them as "survival instincts", survival typically being understood by this definition:

    the state or fact of continuing to live or exist, typically in spite of an accident, ordeal, or difficult circumstances.

    What you seem to want to talk about is what I mention in the parenthetical, which is the thoughts that come into your awareness that you trust. I'm trying to talk about the reactions/behaviors of our physical bodies that we commonly think of as "involuntary" (or as mentioned above, "innate")

    Though you are describing the mechanism through which I believe can be used to be a sort of "delivery system" for the emotional attachments that result in our making self destructive choices.
    Last edited by donk, 8th July 2015 at 15:38.
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    donk, this 'delivery system' you refer to could then be used by an outside source? To manipulate, control, coerce? Scary to think about.

    I'm pretty sure I've had some dreams that weren't originating from me. I tend to recognize this at some point and then the dream loses power and even coherence. When I know a feeling or action or situation isn't 'real' or 'genuine' it has no power anymore.

    Advertising, propaganda, fear-mongering, all play on the instincts you speak of. People end up being manipulated without realizing it. That's why I focus on self-awareness.

    We are animals and thus have animal instincts. I believe we also rise above those due to our self-awareness and ability to use judgment based on experience, etc.

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    Senior Member donk's Avatar
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    donk, this 'delivery system' you refer to could then be used by an outside source? To manipulate, control, coerce? Scary to think about.
    I believe it is currently the best theory I can imagine for the "collective consciousness" acceptance/norm of what passes for a "diet" (mostly quasi-food and poison) and war and other ideas that we base our living arrangement that goes against the "truth" I observed that ultimately we are communal animals that thrive when we are not so individualistic/service-to-self driven or competitive....in fact I believe one of the strongest pieces of the arsenal is the twisting of Darwin theory's...applying "survival of the fittest" to our own species, not to mention what appears to be intra-species predation.

    Advertising, propaganda, fear-mongering, all play on the instincts you speak of. People end up being manipulated without realizing it. That's why I focus on self-awareness.
    These I feel are the best delivery systems, along with institutionalized education and the strange values we bring to various "family" constructs...while removing the "it takes a village" mentality.

    We are animals and thus have animal instincts. I believe we also rise above those due to our self-awareness and ability to use judgment based on experience, etc.
    Ahhh...this is at the heart of the idea I hope people will think about ...in this incarnation, we inhabit vehicles that we tell ourselves are bazillions of individual units of "life" (cells/organs), that we may be well served to examine our relationship with...do we innately accept that we "control" them? How easily can they controlled by others?

    What does it really mean when "our instincts take over"?
    What is the purpose of your presence?

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    I like that last question. Something to ponder.

    In a crisis situation, I'm likely to go straight into problem solver mode. The strong emotions get expressed later.

    Survival instincts are strong. Those who go through intense training or experience learn this first hand. I'm thinking of military or people who do extreme wilderness activities.

    I'm not afraid of bees or bugs. When I went outside the other day a bumblebee came up to me suddenly and very loudly. It startled me and I made an involuntary sound. I laughed at myself a bit and thought about that automatic reaction.

    Some things are like the hand on heat. The nerves cause a reflex before the stimulus even reaches the brain. It's a short loop. And it's a good thing we have it or we'd get serious burns much more often.

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    Quote Originally posted by donk
    My understanding of “instincts” is that they are the default actions of the vehicle we call “our body” to specific external stimuli.
    If you presume rationality or the application of logic to the specific external stimulus, then instinct boils down to behavior, culture and routine.

    If you presume irrationality or the absence of logic, then instinct is a programmed response to the stimulus that does not contemplate reason. A survival response, the kick of the leg when the knee is tapped...

    There is not much you can do about the latter, although really, if you felt compelled you can try various things to modify the "programming". NLP etc.

    The prior is a more interesting question, how can you modify your behavior, culture and routine? And more interestingly, without altering your morals and/or values that define you as an individual.

    EDIT: Rather than elaborate mathematics for introduction of confusing and meaningless clutter. Let's suppose we may just apply our reasoning and logic to challenge presumptions or preconceptions we may hold about the meanings latent in what we experience. Subtly that changes the input parameters and perhaps causes us to break from habit or routine behaviors. I'll elaborate an example:

    You are driving down the road, in a hurry, to get to a routine destination, you know every pot-hole, every corner and every line that you drive by. Confidence in such intimate knowledge of the path has encouraged you to have surety in your abilities to drive the path, day after day. Routine, behavior.

    One day a car driven by a woman makes a sweeping left hand turn from the right lane, with no blinker indications right across your path. The notion of saving the ball-joints by taking really wide sweeping turns is something old-timers think is good. Anyway, your lightening fast reactions enter into action applying the break, your careful and measured steering input alters your direction to give you the maximum stopping distance possible before colliding with the rouge, unexpected dithering car interfering with your trajectory.

    Certainly that will teach you for be so confident! Observe a larger safety margin not because you know the road and know how to drive, but because others may not know. You collide into the driver side door with nowhere else left to go, and then you get out of the car and luckily the woman is shaken and on the verge of crying. You walk over and choose to act.

    Perhaps an ordinary man, upon undergoing such incident will find it in himself to take the dominant position and take whatever self-esteem the woman may still have left straight to the bin. That would not be something unheard of.

    But you choose to be happy that that she is not bleeding, doesn't have fractured bones and is standing before you waiting to see what she will need to suffer next. So you go and give her a hug.

    And in fact, that has happened to me. Yeah, you can choose to act simply by modifying the way you choose to interprete things around you.

    That is kind of how religion works; it causes us interprete things in our mist in accordance to the belief and faith of the system. But there is nothing that will stop you from deconstructing your own preconceptions, challenging your own presumption and even introducing your own "love" as a means to spice up what you don't like. I never saw the woman/girl again after that day but that doesn't matter to me.

    Simply put in words, we can alter the way we view external stimulus to change our behaviors. Does that kind of help?
    Last edited by lcam88, 8th July 2015 at 19:48. Reason: I didn't like it.

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