Have you noticed the forum has been judging the messenger more than the message? It doesn't only happen here but everywhere in the Alt community. I'm guilty as well. Usually it happens after looking over the message to discern hoax, or lacking evidence. Yet, it never feels good shooting the messenger. I noticed a lot of my posts are directed at pointing out hoaxes in the ufo subject area to help awaken to the lies that are disguised as truth. What I'm finding is that we help ourselves more when the focus is kept on the message but it's not always easy to do.
Have you noticed the forum has been judging the messenger more than the message? It doesn't only happen here but everywhere in the Alt community. I'm guilty as well. Usually it happens after looking over the message to discern hoax, or lacking evidence. Yet, it never feels good shooting the messenger. I noticed a lot of my posts are directed at pointing out hoaxes in the ufo subject area to help awaken to the lies that are disguised as truth. What I'm finding is that we help ourselves more when the focus is kept on the message but it's not always easy to do.
Edit: Change of heart
Last edited by Chester, 11th July 2015 at 17:46.
All the above is all and only my opinion. It may contain some sharing of components of my current operating strategy and some foundational components of my current world view - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.
Being fairly new to this community and forums in general, this was a question I was asking myself a lot. I didn't have the background on some messengers that others did, and from my perspective, regardless of the messenger, at least parts of messages were interesting. I think I've figured out a little of this dilemma as it relates to me anyway recently.
There's truth in everything. I'm finding that to be the case for me. I can dig out the nuggets of truth, even relevance, in just about anything. The process of trying to understand the intentions of the messenger is such a valuable process though...I find out what that truth actually means to me. In a discussion I was having with someone today, this person said, "Not all aspects of Scientology are bad," in regards to something I said that would certainly appear that I may have thought it was all bad. My response was that I agreed, and I realized that there's really nothing that's ALL bad. But in that process of discovery, there can come so much learning about myself, about the nature of things as I see them, and the constant reminder that there really is no black and white.
So, maybe the "shooting the messenger" is a phase in that processing for people, an invaluable phase that helps to draw the connections to other truths or even other fiercely defended beliefs that may start to transform into something else. Maybe the messenger is just as important as the message. Looking at all with discernment, pointing out the hoaxers leads you to so many more questions that open new doors to new truths. Why would a person hoax? Whose agenda are they a part of? The dissection can go on to ultimately discover something that is a completely new reality.
Last edited by Rebel&Rocket, 5th July 2015 at 05:48.
Every whistle-blower, guru, spiritual teacher, scientist, professor, or guide, no matter how altruistic, has an agenda. To stand in discernment requires some investigation into the "who" along with the "what".
The message of the snake oils salesmen is something that I think we could all get behind (heal the sick, etc). Yet, we know to avoid these charlatans because someone decided to investigate the messengers. I do not believe it's possible, nor prudent to separate the two. Especially, when all we have to go on is their word.
Every messenger, no matter how altruistic, has an agenda. To stand in discernment requires some investigation into the "who" along with the "what".
The message of the snake oils salesmen is something that I think we could all get behind. Yet, we know to avoid these charlatans because someone decided to investigate the messengers. I do not believe it's possible, nor prudent to separate the two. Especially, when all we have to go on is their word.
Every whistle-blower, guru, spiritual teacher, scientist, professor, or guide, no matter how altruistic, has an agenda. To stand in discernment requires some investigation into the "who" along with the "what".
The message of the snake oils salesmen is something that I think we could all get behind (heal the sick, etc). Yet, we know to avoid these charlatans because someone decided to investigate the messengers. I do not believe it's possible, nor prudent to separate the two. Especially, when all we have to go on is their word.
Exactly
More people are starting to wake up and are even questioning their faith than ever before.It can become a problem when you start to go down that rabbit hole.Sometimes being awake can actually become more of a problem than not being awake.Its when you are awake how you handle the information before you. Everything even in our bibles have been written down by someone claiming to be this and that.Us humans are actually very easily led.
No one person can ever change the truth, but the truth, once learned, can and will change the person
You must be the change you wish to see in the world when you are through changing, you are through
How much can we know?
When will it change and how?
We all have our own truth as we have come to understand it,
and one thing is for certain, it will change.
Messengers present us with their message and it is our 'job' to ferret out the truth of it, buried in plain sight.
For ourself.
For me the 'character' of the messenger is but one factor in this process.
And certainly, thru time the character of the messenger becomes more and more apparent, and thus this accumulation of insight can be taken more completely into account.
But there are bits of insight and valuable snipits of wisdom and truth within even the most twisted and unappealing of sources. And sometime there are unexpected 'side effects' to be gained even from within the most unlikely of places and sources.
Our job is to allow ourselves to find them.
See bullet points #2 & 3 below.
JJ
Last edited by johnjen325, 5th July 2015 at 07:55.
Have you noticed the forum has been judging the messenger more than the message? It doesn't only happen here but everywhere in the Alt community. I'm guilty as well. Usually it happens after looking over the message to discern hoax, or lacking evidence. Yet, it never feels good shooting the messenger. I noticed a lot of my posts are directed at pointing out hoaxes in the ufo subject area to help awaken to the lies that are disguised as truth. What I'm finding is that we help ourselves more when the focus is kept on the message but it's not always easy to do.
Recently i had a huge argument in the field group on facebook.
It was more like an attack on me.
By a UFO group from the Netherlands.
They claimed that i was exposed last year as a hoax, and that i tried again with another account.
So those guys wanted to sell it like, hey its that hoax guy again.
And letterly evoid my footage and kept talking i was a hoax.
Then i got pist of.
Because those guys did not know that i did my own homework about them as well.
So i threw back at them what i knew.
Before i explain what i said to them, il explain first how they work.
They have a platform, whats called UFOspottingnederland.
They ask people to join there skywatchers group!!
Then they want to know the location of that person.
Then that person wil share the footage he have, and they wil debunk it with fallacies on a smooth way.
Unless the footage cant be mistaken, then they use it on there site. That is for credibility to other skywatchers, that they have real footage of UFOs.
But if someone dont coorperate with them, he will get banned or attacked as a hoax.
Thats what happend to me.
Then they infiltrate in many UFO groups and act like a skywatcher and use the footage others find to backup there trust, and on this way they stay uptodate if someone from the netherlands report something.
So this group have people searching the internet for UFO cases and use all footage on there site, to keep people busy in there network.
And when someone from anywere in the world film a UFO, it wil get debunked in that group.
In fact they debunk almost everyone and everything.
By this tactic they create a envirement were people dont want to report UFOs.
They dominate the platforms in the Netherlands and if someone comes forward,then he wil get attacked by a group.
So attackign a messenger can be positive if he want to manipulate people with his message.
But we can only find out what the truth is, if we look to the evidence.
And people who dont want the public to know the message, will bombard the messenger with fallacies to keep him busy for telling the truth.
Or they want to silence the messenger.
So from my point of view, it al depends on the messenger and the message.
Like in my situation.
They dont attack my message, but they attacked me.
And the irony of that is.
That they have something what is obvious a hoax.
Check this video, they claim it is a UFO.
But its filmed inside of a room.
Here is a stil shot from the video, below it you can see the corner of a room.
And a closet and a lamp is hanging there.
Those guys letterly filmed this and claimed that it is a UFO, they even send it to latest ufo sightings!!
And these guys claim that am a hoax and share that message in the netherlands!!
So what am trying to say is, there is a huge difference between attacking a person who got the wrong intentions or just attack someone because you dont believe him.
And in the UFO community those two get mixed up and make sure that it wil be harder to find the truth.
Like now, i honestly dont know what to do against those guys.
They seemd to be very organized in the Netherlands and they are with a group.
And i think that the same problem is worldwide, but in the Netherlands there is no open platform yet, where everyone can safely report anything.
IF you report something now, then you are a idiot for life!!
So the truth in this situation is, i could also attack those guys now as a hoax but there is a voice in my mind who say.
I dont give a F..K what they do and that is because i dont have bad intention to them or others.
And if someone have bad intentions, then every detail or what ever he can find, they wil use it on that person with full force.
That is not to attack the messenger, but to destroy the messenger.
And i see in the Netherlands those people have a monopoly position here, even in contact with media.
And that is difficult to fight against.
Am now in that position, and am breaking my head about what to do against it.
Wow,
I see that the issue is much more complicated with all the responses shared. For instance if the message has been investigated and the messenger refuses to accept what others say can make it complicated. Or as what a few mention a debunkers shoots down the message that is true can have a great affect on the messenger. I want to thank you all for helping to get a bigger picture. Sinzzer your thinking at the problem in the right way. Those that are open to hear will be the focus for you and forget the groups mindthink. Above Top secret website in the US tries to discredit many excellent ufo investigators so I guess that's all we can do is pay them no attention. Others will believe thankfully. And here we have our friends of TOT for support.
This is exactly why I won't call myself a "lightworker." From my hanging around various forums, groups, whatever, I find "lightworkers" tend to be the most judgmental, vitriolic individuals around. I doubt I'll be hanging around this forum much longer.
This is exactly why I won't call myself a "lightworker." From my hanging around various forums, groups, whatever, I find "lightworkers" tend to be the most judgmental, vitriolic individuals around. I doubt I'll be hanging around this forum much longer.
I hear you, but consider the audience.... We're talking about a bunch of people who spend their free time questioning everything they've been taught, questioning the reality they've always known, rather than watching reality TV. These are people who are trying to "tune in" rather than "tune out." We're not sharing recipes here. We're opening ourselves to very, very complex "truths." Would it be better if everyone just took things at face value? It's uncomfortable here sometimes, but I'm finding those are the most important times to sit through it for me.
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Rebel&Rocket For This Useful Post:
Aianawa (6th July 2015), bsbray (6th July 2015), Chester (7th July 2015), Elen (7th July 2015), Joanna (6th July 2015), mojo (6th July 2015), Sheila (6th July 2015)
I come from the perspective of responsibility to, and cherishment for, the overall field of consciousness, and my soul's connection to it, and its wish to add only love, compassion, kindness to the field. Every thought, word and action is vibration, and energy. What we send out ripples into, and contributes to, the Whole. Sharing your sensing, or understanding of a message and/or the energies sometimes hidden underneath it as a disservice to the Whole, is different to getting 'personal' about a messenger.
Messengers themselves may be deliberate hoaxers, or wholly believe what they are imparting, without true awareness of a source, or be in doubt, and fluctuating and unstable, or attention, fame and wealth seekers, or they may have clear, true alignments to deeper knowing, or they may be 'on the ball' a fair bit of the time, slip off it at times, pick themselves up again, one time or many times....or they may be a mixture of some or all of the above. Because until there is not one shred of fear left in any level or buried pocket of the subconscious mind, people can always be susceptible to their connection being compromised temporarily, or severely breached, even when their prime intention is of love and care. If we get stuck into anybody on a personal level, anyone at all, then we're rippling heavy vibrations into the Whole....and we are connecting our energy-field to whatever we focus on; the more 'charge' in our thoughts/emotions, the stronger the connection....
I'll focus on a message, if I feel there's a need to, but even (or especially) if it feels 'off' to me, aim to stay neutral about/toward the messenger at the least....and send them Love, at best.....because they are the ones who need it most. How else will they/we all heal?
Have you noticed the forum has been judging the messenger more than the message?
It can not be separated. You however DO NOT judge things such as the messengers sense of fashion, unless maybe the messenger claims a dire need for donations while wearing designer clothes - as in highly expensive..etc So you do not judge weather or not the clothes fit or if the color arrangement matches the shoes... You judge the "we need money to stay online" vs "crocodile leather purse"...
You state facts. You compare actions and words pertaining to the message.
For example stating "person X" has sold out/lost credibility...is hardly a personal attack, when "person X" has indeed sold out. It is even less of a personal attack given the past statements "person X" has made about the message being free.
If i had the resources i would have these (see here i have to self censor, cant use the word i want to since that would be an "attack") so these...persons...investigated. The point of investigation would be: do they walk the talk?
I have stated elsewhere on TOT, that IMHO no one person / entity / group has ALL the truth and that I have come to believe that is by SPECIFIC DESIGN. I have also come to "feel" that it is important to take in as much information as possible and not to immediately BELIEVE or DISBELIEVE anything. Knowledge, (possible puzzle pieces), no matter the SOURCE, seems to almost always be coupled / peppered / sprinkled with bits of truth and disinfo. Again I have come to "feel" this is on purpose.
How else are we to "learn" discernment, especially in light of the information gathered on the Mind F***ing humanity has clearly undergone for centuries, let alone the story of Edward Bernays, (see the PBS documentary The Century of Self on YouTube), and his contribution to modern day Mind F***ing!
I heard this quote somewhere and now I will share it with you "Knowledge protects, ignorance endangers." - I wish I could remember where it was I heard that so that I could give proper credit.
I began "waking up" in 2009. I have read / watched interviews and lectures / and generally taken in as much information as possible, not just on the subjects we have been speaking about here, but on many other topics like GMO's, Allopathic medicine, indigenous cultures, history, (or tales of history I should say), and I can say this... Not one topic has had all the truth contained in one speaker / event / organization etc... All by design...
My advice? Be careful not to "throw the baby out with the bathwater". I have also said elsewhere on TOT that the message of becoming more loving, forgiving, compassionate and service to others is by no means NEW! If all, and I do mean ALL or at least the majority of humanity, would focus on just these 4 things, how quickly do you think the entire situation would change.
I am a "nobody" from "nowhere", but I have a message.... look within, gather as much knowledge as you can, be forgiving to yourself and others, love yourself and others, practice compassion on yourself and others, and practice the golden rule of doing for others what you would have done for you... I can't find any fault in any of the message I stated above, and if for some reason you can, then I invite you to ask yourself, "What about that message could I possibly have an issue with and what sort of issue do I have with it and why?" You may find some interesting answers.
With this ends the rant.... sorry if this seems off topic... Much love to all!
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Originally posted by mojo
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