A serious question

[Joanna]

I agree with your statement but would like to add to it. From what I have been reading and the way I understand it, In general terms, Earth was/is a great experiment and things have gotten out of hand (out of balance). Since nature is all about balance, she is correcting the imbalance. Perhaps the intervention is karmic in nature. Perhaps the beings that were involved in the great experiment made mistakes and are trying to correct the mistakes to release themselves from karma. Perhaps, by helping us to release our burdens, they are helping themselves. IMHO things do seem to be out of whack because out of 8 billion+/- souls only a small portion is ready to graduate from this school. Perhaps those who are intervening are also doing so to protect the planet from destruction. The humans are doing a good job of messing things up. Think about the vast amounts of various lifeforms and species here and how beautiful Earth is. Isn't she worth protecting? There are probably many reasons and agendas at play.

My sense of this is slightly different; not that this whole thing was orchestrated as an 'experiment' (or that Earth is a 'school') but as an 'experience' - the 'polarity game experience', which was allowed to be conducted, simply for the growth and expansion possible within the range of that experience. It's similar in meaning, but not quite the same....
The ETs helping here now, who are in unity consciousness, the 5D+ field/stratas, are beyond the stage of 'karma', in the way we understand it, of energies that have to be balanced out in thoughts/words/deeds in time and space, because they are not IN time, or space as we define it - by distances between objects. Their space is not defined by distances, or the karmic polarity of 'cause and effect'. They have no 'karma' left to clear....They are cause-and-effect in One; there is no separation, and therefore no 'rebound'/balancing of equal but opposite energies of 'karma'. They are here, assisting, because Source has called them to do so, and they align their will freely with Source. It's an act of Love.....

The Earth is so worth protecting, and they are doing so continuously, or it wouldn't still be habitable, or even possibly still in one piece....between constant attempts to initiate WW3, CERN, Fukushima, and the odd planet that has needed redirecting, to name but a few 'issues', this planet and all its beautiful life would probably not be here now. Pretty major interventions, wouldn't you say? However, they continue to hold the space - for now - for humanity to get its act together, while there is still 'time', so that we can meet and act openly, collectively, as brothers and sisters...rather than them having to step in as parents with toddlers that need to be pulled into line and taught how to behave. They will do so, if all else fails, but it isn't the preferred option. It comes back to that 'personal responsibility' thing Sam talked about....and holding the space for maximum growth within this 'experience'......so they keep holding the space....

[lcam88]

Ahhh thanks for the clarity.

What I always try and maintain is all of what I write about are my actual (unembellished) experiences and then my opinions. I try to back everything up with facts and logic.

Your welcome, I'm glad it helped.

I do not normally try to back-up what I write. That is very very hard when your subject-matter is a hypothetical, but I normally have an example at the tip of the tongue but merely illustrative, it's way less than ideal evidence but it's easer. For the actually hard stuff, I just ask meaningful and sometimes pointed questions. That leaves me without any requirement to actually reveal more hard facts than I want, even though I still optionally may include it whenever convenient; if someone want's to be an authority in this ever more finely granulated field of "greys" (pun intended) they certainly can try. I don't want the pedestal.

It's good enough for me that someone may understands the reason a question may be relevant. It is way more interesting to have people think about whatever, then having them absorb something you may be spoon feeding. Maybe because they are more stimulated into involvement. I suppose there are many types of people.

I think one of my greatest difficulties is that sometimes my articulations as I later read my posts are ambiguous to the true nature of what I mean or sometimes even the context of what I reply to. That is as close to a confession as you will get, of me declaring that I understand what I want to understand and sometimes I read between the lines to get there. <shrug/>

[lcam88]

I have confidence in one thing about ETS. They know more than we do about science and the universe. No matter what their different agendas, I feel their primary shared concern is that we could upset our universe by blowing up our planet and endanger other sentient beings. Lots of documents prove their attempts to get us to quit playing with matches (nuclear energy).

I am not sure I share your confidence regarding ETs. That would presume you know something about ETs that I do not. Care to share?

Nuclear energy is good or bad depending on out it is used; I think it is possible to educate a 5 year-old in the proper use of firearms, for example. That said, it is not possible to educate someone who thinks they already know. That is perspective to your earlier claim that ET's know more than we do, FYI. If indeed your confidence was well placed, those ET's wouldn't have even tried.

I continue to emphasis that self-deprecation or disempowerment of human-kind is something that absolutely must be reversed. It is something that has gone on for the last couple of thousand years and it has not made any really great strides in the advancement of who we are.

[lcam88]

In your original OP you described the "track record of the humans of Earth in general" and expressed concern about "the chances this group gains off world capabilities to spread their parasitical disease".

Pretty clear, Sam. Your sovereign friend foxfire and I saw it right away.

You can't have it both ways. Either you're judging most of humanity or you're not in which case your OP needs a rewrite.

Perhaps you just did that in post #66. Your OP didn't distinguish the select few that the rest of us have 'allowed' to act on our behalf.

I don't like being told to 'stop reading' so I continued. If your point requires the belief in that select few then its meaning has changed from the original OP.

So you cannot possibly see what Sam has written as possibly originating from a non-judgmental position then? That perhaps it is part of a "throw in the towel" type of generally held viewpoint or a foregone judgement already held in circulation by some groups? In such a context what he has commented on does not actually introducing his own judgements? I must say, what you have quoted is not something I originally have heard from Sam, it is not a new idea. I have even likened it to a species of "natural law" for as old as I see the idea to be. Are you prepared to say that it is indeed an original judgement made by Sam?

While I admire your and foxfire's position to challenge what meanings may be gotten, why has Sam's clarifications hereto not been sufficient for you? Is there some actual and new idea that I have missed that you intend to reveal in context of the quoted text or it's implications? Can you make that revelation please?

EDIT: Thanks for your views. I wrote the nitpick now gone too soon it seems. I too believe people in general are innately good. I personally think we need absolutely no foreign help to survive and prosper.

[pointessa]

Sam, I was going to post something of the same sentiment this morning but you have done such a beautiful and eloquent job that I find no need, thank you!!!!!! Truly, I cannot imagine any beings that would want to let us in any way off of this planet or assist us..I think it is possible that we are quarantined . We simply are not fit to do so at the level of consciousness we are currently at. Could you even imagine if we were given all this new technology and wealth as some have proclaimed, where everyone is a millionaire. How long would that last before the exploitation of the vulnerable returned us to the same place? We would only expedite our own destruction, as long as we are ego centered at the current level that exists. The idea that we are going to be rewarded even though we our destroying ourselves, not to mention the genocide of all living creatures, and our living environment because we are really, really good at making high tech things defies any logic.

I want to admit that there was a time where I was vulnerable to this kind of thing. It is only natural, when you are a race of creatures wallowing in your own excrement up to your neck. Yeah, who wouldn't mind help, but any ET that gave us access or technology to go to off world locations would have to be as impaired as we are. I had never considered the disease issue. Nope I don't think there is a savior coming any time soon..and particularly not one that comes in a quasi-military style.

I think it is the years of seeking truth earnestly that one ,by deduction, realizes that truth is realized from within and sometimes it ain't pretty.

[Chester]

Theoretically there are different possibilities. Lets assume they are philanthropistic.

Some benevolent alien race could help by making this planet a "rehab world". Problem is - there is no problem. At least as far as the majority of population is concerned. We all just need more money, that's it. It will all be better then... Cant have a rehab with non voluntary participants. Cant help those who refuse to be helped.

Some benevolent alien race could "borrow" from the shock doctrine. They apply the shock by making themselves known in a far more irrefutable manner than just a small blurry white speck on a video. No they do not "come down showering us with gifts". After the shock is applied it would be up to the "angelic humanity" to do whatever with it. Theoretically it could instill ideas and thoughts they would never have if not for the shock. What thoughts and ideas and the result of it...well...i leave that up to your imaginations.

Some benevolent race could "act responsibly", using the "proper channels", by going to our "beloved leaders" and offer them a helping hand. Thing is, they (gov) would respond with: "how do your weapons work".

Other than that...i cant really say why any would.

Ofc anyone can always claim some natural law, cosmic law, law of one, first contact law...whatever as to why some things happen or not or how...

And if this has all happened before and happened many times, and each time the shot callers on Earth make worse and worse calls and all the rest stand back and allow these calls to be made and these benevolent races actually have access to the truthful history so they see the pattern, it is quite possible at some point they see any form of "help" as actually enabling.

Most parents that have had children understands this situation well... help and help and help and then... once it is recognized that the help is actually enabling, if you love your children as well as love those who your children may be effecting negatively, you might stop (as I have) and step back and allow the Universe to resolve the matter, Herself.

That is the whole entire point I was attempting to make via this thread.

Some may get it, some might wish to avoid acknowledging its validity.

Some may disagree and suggest that "help" (intervention) in any form should never stop.

Some may say, what does it all matter and why even bother to raise the point.

I am not telling you what to think. I made a hypothetical case for a possibility. I backed it with logic. I have discovered the wisdom of this in the microcosmic example of some of my own children, one who I had to refuse re-entry into my home whereby he ended up moving into the woods and his brother's car.

Sometimes there is only one ultimate response that can be given (in love) and that response is, "No... no more."

[Chester]

Hi Sam,
My own indication is that yes there are benevolent Extra terrestrial who do want to look after humanity, and after all why not.

Every post I (and now some others) have made in this thread has presented a pretty good case for "why not."

Check out Pointesa's post here

[Chester]

Sam, You've striven hard to rework your OP. And you've nicely avoided my challenges. Methinks thou dost protest too much about judging.

Actually, I have transcended judgment. Those who know me and my personal story know this is true. Another thing I have transcended is jealousy. Those who know me and my personal story know this is true.

There are a few more I am still working on. One is patience... another deals with wanting to win (win what?? haha) and the last is slander (something I still struggle with).

One thing you'll never experience from me is dishonesty. If you insist on taking the OP the way you wish and then desire to suggest I am avoiding your challenges then enjoy your view! At least its my opinion you have the full right to do this. Also, I don't pound the report button as I don't need moderators protecting my "branding efforts" (this comment was not meant towards you, Dreamtimer).

[Chester]

I agree with your statement but would like to add to it. From what I have been reading and the way I understand it, In general terms, Earth was/is a great experiment and things have gotten out of hand (out of balance). Since nature is all about balance, she is correcting the imbalance. Perhaps the intervention is karmic in nature. Perhaps the beings that were involved in the great experiment made mistakes and are trying to correct the mistakes to release themselves from karma. Perhaps, by helping us to release our burdens, they are helping themselves. IMHO things do seem to be out of whack because out of 8 billion+/- souls only a small portion is ready to graduate from this school. Perhaps those who are intervening are also doing so to protect the planet from destruction. The humans are doing a good job of messing things up. Think about the vast amounts of various lifeforms and species here and how beautiful Earth is. Isn't she worth protecting? There are probably many reasons and agendas at play.

If a soul inhabits a body and then that body murders hundreds of others over and over and eventually they kill themselves or someone else kills them first, what then happens with that soul? Is it destroyed, is it condemned to an eternal hell?

Or is it possible it has new experiences which might provide that soul the opportunity to adjust its world views which are foundational to that soul's vehicle's behaviors?

At some point, people allow folks to self destruct (physically). Why would that not be a possibility when a pattern over many millennia has been observed by outside races? This is my only point.

first a custodial race of a planet instead harms all life and the planet.

Help once - good

pattern of destruction continues

help twice - maybe still good

pattern of destruction continues

help three times - hummm is this really helping?

pattern of destruction continues

see the beings of the planet gaining more and more technology which suggests they could one day expand their patterns of behavior further out into the universe.

help more???

I see a dilemma here.

[AscensionQuest]

If a soul inhabits a body and then that body murders hundreds of others over and over and eventually they kill themselves or someone else kills them first, what then happens with that soul? Is it destroyed, is it condemned to an eternal hell?

Or is it possible it has new experiences which might provide that soul the opportunity to adjust its world views which are foundational to that soul's vehicle's behaviors?

At some point, people allow folks to self destruct (physically). Why would that not be a possibility when a pattern over many millennia has been observed by outside races? This is my only point.

first a custodial race of a planet instead harms all life and the planet.

Help once - good

pattern of destruction continues

help twice - maybe still good

pattern of destruction continues

help three times - hummm is this really helping?

pattern of destruction continues

see the beings of the planet gaining more and more technology which suggests they could one day expand their patterns of behavior further out into the universe.

help more???

I see a dilemma here.

Sam, i think i have an answer for you.

According to Betty Eadie ( Embraced by the Light ) after you die you go to area of heaven known as the Heavenly Council.

It is there that you receive something called a : Life Review.

During your Life Review you are shown the Ripple Effects of your actions while here on Earth.

The Heavenly Council is run by the Lords of Karma.

Jesus is there and so is The Creator / The Spirit Father.

[Shadowself]

Breaking Habits Of perception => conception

ALLOWING NEW RECEPTION

Keepin' Yo Hiney Shiny: via the Lords of Karma?

~

In my perspective conceived existential POV:


Worship the new and improved gods is the shifting of responsibility. Demons do the dirty work and release you from your responsibility. The devil made me do it?

Ergo freedom is perceived given under the law of religion and some written moral codes of conduct to follow to the letter.

Sigmund Freud wrote; "Most people do not really want freedom, because freedom involves responsibility, and most people are frightened of responsibility."

Under religious text your responsibility and moral codes are to give up your freedom and follow the doctrine. Why? Because it's "written".

It's in the name of Go(o)d that some of the bloodiest wars are fought.

There are several common examples of how people avoid responsibility. Conformity is one good example. Blind allegiance to various organizations and institutions including political parties and religious institutions. The problem with blind allegiance is when a person gives up their responsibility to critically think through the beliefs, perspectives, and values of the organization or religion. When this happens, the individual's values are no longer authentic.

Another way to avoid responsibility can occur through the belief that one is powerless. The wrath of God comes to mind.
So to sets in motion Worship of the all mighty Gods of Ori(gin)

~

It's too much man!

Conformity/Blind allegiance

Let it all hang out

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWN65nAkk20

[pointessa]

Really awesome question, Sam! I think that the "humans" that choose to control/manipulate/terrorize/enslave etc. are not "human" at all. Not really. My limited observation (48 years, two universities, three states, five cities, 17 years of teaching under 8 years old) of human nature is that people are basically good at heart; at least they are born that way. Granted, I have never left the country, and I don't have any experience with hard criminals.

I think an advanced, benevolent off-planet race would see the good in us and surely want to send aid to the 'slaves'. I don't think 'humans' have a parasitical disease, I think it is the off-planet folks who were here aeons ago were the parasites.

My 2cents

We may or may not have been altered but we have to live with what we are. Look at the world you live in. Not your college educated middle class world where the streets are neat and you haven't even seen a smack of martial law yet. If we are not evil then we are easily deceived and devastatingly tolerant of a corrupt and evil system. I am not only talking governments, but profit takers who will scavenge and rape the planet and all living things so that we can have crap that we do not need.Why do we want so much crap, because we are told we need more. Many of us live in ridiculous excess. We buy our food in clear packages, nice and sanitized which allows us to separate ourselves from our natural world, so we aren't even aware of the torture, terror and degradation that the living creature endured so we can make a quick stop at the grocery . We as humans are easily deceived. Most can exist quite happily if their tiny realm is not disturbed too much. And all we really need is someone to save our butts. And don't think that I write this , thinking I am a exception to this, I am not. But I see it and that is the first step to evolving consciousness that will bring us out of our dilemma. The only answer, the only savior will be a expanded consciousness.


If I allow my spouse to harm my children but say nothing and do not interfere does that make me basically decent, as long as I do not participate? I am making an analogy does anyone get it?


The greatest help any ET could give us is to let us learn to help ourselves by becoming courageous, self realized and compassionate beings. If we don't achieve that , then things will continue on the same path until we self annihilate.

[AscensionQuest]

Breaking Habits Of perception => conception

ALLOWING NEW RECEPTION

Keepin' Yo Hiney Shiny: via the Lords of Karma?

~

In my perspective conceived existential POV:


Worship the new and improved gods is the shifting of responsibility. Demons do the dirty work and release you from your responsibility. The devil made me do it?

Ergo freedom is perceived given under the law of religion and some written moral codes of conduct to follow to the letter.

Sigmund Freud wrote; "Most people do not really want freedom, because freedom involves responsibility, and most people are frightened of responsibility."

Under religious text your responsibility and moral codes are to give up your freedom and follow the doctrine. Why? Because it's "written".

It's in the name of Go(o)d that some of the bloodiest wars are fought.

There are several common examples of how people avoid responsibility. Conformity is one good example. Blind allegiance to various organizations and institutions including political parties and religious institutions. The problem with blind allegiance is when a person gives up their responsibility to critically think through the beliefs, perspectives, and values of the organization or religion. When this happens, the individual's values are no longer authentic.

Another way to avoid responsibility can occur through the belief that one is powerless. The wrath of God comes to mind.
So to sets in motion Worship of the all mighty Gods of Ori(gin)

~

It's too much man!

Conformity/Blind allegiance

Let it all hang out

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWN65nAkk20

Remember that part where Lucifer and many other fallen angels where thrown down on Earth?

That was the Lords of Karma. They transformed Earth into a : Prison Planet.

Lucifer, Beelzebub and Leviathan were first 3 thrown down here. They can't leave.

[Aragorn]

Remember that part where Lucifer and many other fallen angels where thrown down on Earth?

I'm afraid you're putting too much dogmatic faith into the badly warped recount of a number of texts which were themselves written specifically for the mindset and culture in the Middle-East thousands of years ago. Not only were those texts mostly metaphorical in nature and specific to the culture of that area and era, but they have also badly been distorted, both unintentionally (through mistranslation) and deliberately (by the Roman Catholic Church as a power structure which ruled the western hemisphere for 800 years).

There are no such things as fallen angels, because angels -- as described in both the Roman-Catholic Bible and in the Koran -- do not possess Free Will. They are considered to merely be emanations from the Abrahamic deity -- i.e. Jahweh/JeHoVa, God, Allah -- representing different aspects of that Abrahamic deity. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about, and I could say much more on this subject -- and I already have a few times, elsewhere on the forum -- but I don't want to derail this thread.

That was the Lords of Karma. They transformed Earth into a : Prison Planet.

Lucifer, Beelzebub and Leviathan were first 3 thrown down here. They can't leave.

• There is also no such entity as Lucifer. The name Lucifer only became a proper name through the King George translation of the Bible from Latin to English, and is absent in all other translations. The word "lucifer" is Latin for "bearer of light", and the pertinent passage was a letter from the apostle Peter to the king of Tyrus (Babylon), in which Peter sarcastically chastised said king over his corruption and evil deeds. However, that person was only a mortal human being.

• The name Beëlzebub is one of the many names of Baäl, also known as Bel or Belial, who was supposedly a deity worshipped by -- I believe -- the Assyrians.

• The creature Leviathan is a metaphor for the state of the universe before Creation. It was supposedly a mythical sea monster -- in the Old Testament -- which was defeated by Jawheh/JeHoVa, as a metaphor for the victory of order over chaos.

• Karma does not have any "lords". Karma is merely the restoration of an energetic balance that was perturbed by one's actions. Karmic resolution is a property of Creation itself.

[AscensionQuest]

I'm afraid you're putting too much dogmatic faith into the badly warped recount of a number of texts which were themselves written specifically for the mindset and culture in the Middle-East thousands of years ago. Not only were those texts mostly metaphorical in nature and specific to the culture of that area and era, but they have also badly been distorted, both unintentionally (through mistranslation) and deliberately (by the Roman Catholic Church as a power structure which ruled the western hemisphere for 800 years).

There are no such things as fallen angels, because angels -- as described in both the Roman-Catholic Bible and in the Koran -- do not possess Free Will. They are considered to merely be emanations from the Abrahamic deity -- i.e. Jahweh/JeHoVa, God, Allah -- representing different aspects of that Abrahamic deity. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about, and I could say much more on this subject -- and I already have a few times, elsewhere on the forum -- but I don't want to derail this thread.

• There is also no such entity as Lucifer. The name Lucifer only became a proper name through the King George translation of the Bible from Latin to English, and is absent in all other translations. The word "lucifer" is Latin for "bearer of light", and the pertinent passage was a letter from the apostle Peter to the king of Tyrus (Babylon), in which Peter sarcastically chastised said king over his corruption and evil deeds. However, that person was only a mortal human being.

• The name Beelzebub is one of the many names of Baäl, also known as Bel or Belial, who was supposedly a deity worshipped by -- I believe -- the Assyrians.

• The name Leviathan is a metaphor for the state of the universe before Creation. It was supposedly a mythical sea monster -- in the Old Testament -- which was defeated by Jawheh/JeHoVa, as a metaphor for the victory of order over chaos.

• Karma does not have any "lords". Karma is merely the restoration of an energetic balance that was perturbed by one's actions. Karmic resolution is a property of Creation itself.

The Catholic Church has their hands full with demonic possession in Italy.

Note: Lucifer / Satan did......NOT?......temp Jesus as described in the Holy Bible?