Why Charging Money for Disclosure-Related Information is Wrong

[Daozen]

Here's what I was thinking today: Can you take someone to court for spreading fake intel? I guess it comes under freedom of speech. But is there anything you can do, even a cease and desist, or some sort of legal letter, to someone who has misled people for years?

[Chester]

Here's what I was thinking today: Can you take someone to court for spreading fake intel? I guess it comes under freedom of speech. But is there anything you can do, even a cease and desist, or some sort of legal letter, to someone who has misled people for years?

My opinion is that no one needs to be taken to court as long as the venues where "intel spreaders" troll for the vulnerable allow for open and unrestricted discussion of the data as to its validity, consistency and paradigms the information suggests.

Now I know I won't get any thanks here as just about all the folks who would have thanked the post have moved on from this forum. Yes... I am getting the hint. Don't worry, I will be glad to move on if asked. Just have the courtesy to ask... I won't make some swan song last word post... I will just move on.

[Daozen]

Court might be too much, but a legal letter shows focus and carries weight on many levels.

People come and go, I am busy in other places too. I't not healthy too be online too much in summer anyway...

[Chester]

Check this out -

"You want someone who welcomes you to freely think... exactly what they tell you to think" or risk getting blamed for being negative or low vibrational or dis-info agent or "a paid illuminati dis-info agent" - note here the "paid" word is an added "bad thing" yet point out how within the overall schema, folks are getting paid and... there's the defenders excusing the overall schema by justifying being paid for it. If Pied Piper were paid... maybe then he would be excused for just doing his job or feeding his family or avoiding living in a car?

NOTHING WRONG with getting paid and NOTHING WRONG with earning an honest living.

Cash in on the blatant and intentionally known selling of false hope is something different.


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3H6-NQ6hfA


"It's not brain washing... it's washing your soul... you want someone who will wash your soul."

[mojo]

The message???...each case needs to stand on its own merits and each person needs to determine what resonates with them. Its difficult to place judgement on right or wrong, but each of us can point out obvious errors in the message and hope others will see it for what it is... what is honest living? The car salesman, the Carney man, the hustler, or the snake oil salesman? It's all perspective... because even the original snake oil salesmen had something...

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=titzrDTfp70

[Chester]

Brilliant find... mojo.

The lesson of the video is that as long as proper investigation can be done, what is a true, snake oil remedy can be distinguished from the false snake oil which only lines the pockets of sociopathic salesmen.

No single individual has the ability to research each and every thing that enters into their life in our world today. This is why there is a good reason to have resources where we can go and get reviews of products from those who have done the actual investigations.

Imagine anyone gullible enough to accept "Truth without proof." Yet a well known Alternative community Celebrity wishes you to believe this is a savior alliances "prime directive."

[sinzzer]

And experiencers who do not tell the truth but tell good stories and "psuedo-researchers" who require these "flavors of the month" to perpetuate their own scam.

Why would we spend energy on people who tell lies to the public?
I dont see any logic in that my friend.
we just need to make a door and keep it closed for those people, and use the time we have to enjoy life or to find the truth.
I dont want to sit in my old days thinking about someone who did something for god knows what reasons.

The only way a truthful experiencer that becomes a celebrity can be separated from a "brand where truth doesn't matter" that had becomes a celebrity is when folks are able to freely discuss all aspects of all these high profile types.
Then those who have less discernment capability can make more informed choices as to what to take seriously and what to avoid.

I totally agree with you here.

And so I will say this really clearly. I know I should stop posting these types of thoughts here on the One Truth because I am getting the message more and more every day... and can see in the forum guidelines more and more every day and can understand from reading the PMs I have gotten that this is not wanted here at TOT.

And its my opinion that the owners and top management have the full right to make TOT as they wish. So it is perhaps best that I move on from TOT. The one thing that holds me back though is that their may still be a soul or two that is a member or arrives here or is a lurker who might be assisted by my views. If that's the case and my views assist just one other being in their journey towards the ability to think for themselves and from that begin to take real responsibility for their life and thus avoid the entrapment set by perpetuating paradigms of dis-enpowerment and reliance on the "formula' (Others are here to save the day, here's your new, special messenger, here's how you get on the intel drip feed here's where you send your cash) that actually sucks the vulnerable of all connection to their soul which is why (IMO) the PTBs don't stop these sellers of false hope and in fact behind the scenes find every way to assist them.

Well its always good to say what you think, i do that all th time.
But if you walk away because the reaction was not like, you thought it would be.
Then you probaly will get the same problem everywhere, because this is not a TOT problem.
Opinions will always be different.
And if people respect each other opinion, then why would anyone walk away?
There would be no reason for that then.

And that also count with this discussion.
You are damn right about if people ask money for there lies.
But the big qeustion is, what is a lie and what is the truth?
Who had proven that someone tell lies and who tell the truth?
because i see some kind of figure in your statements but no name.
Then i wounder, who do you mean?
But never mind.
It doesent matter who it is, what matter is , what are the lies and that needs to be expose to the public.
Then we all can give it a place and nobody will buy anything from there, end of story.

And if someone cant prove it, then he should not force his opinion or thoughts on others.
He can say, this is what i believe and then all should respect it and move on.
Its as easy as that if you ask me.

[sinzzer]

sinzzer:

I like your post too.

The general idea you are sharing boils down to working together, that in isolation we find ourselves diminished and yet there are some people who share even in that isolation and in disorganization.

There are a couple of issues that are meaningful to me, in this context:

1. scarcity and the uncertainty that investments of valuable energy and resources will indeed yield results
2. a general lack of vision, knowledge of what true potentials are possible as a part of such a group
3. corruption issues like being conned into something and getting the shaft
4. ideological differences in all aspects but specifically leadership
5. goals for the short mid and long term prospects of the group.

I'd be happy to examine these issues and perhaps add to the list as a Prerequisite to Union of sort. I have ideas that are related. Feel free to open a new thread on the topic and I'll chime in.

The goal is easy, that is the truth.
Nothing more,nothing less.
But i dont want to mess up this topic,so i better stop here.
So if anyone want to open a topic about that, il join for sure because on this moment i was just thinking up loud and only talk with two people about it.
And now the forum in some way.
But i do not have any concrete things to build on, i was just filling up the places what seems to me needs to get upgraded.
And then i dont know how or with what to make a new topic. lol

[Dreamtimer]

I was just about to bring up the FDA...Great video mojo!

So we found out it was the wrong snake. Might not be so easy nowadays what with all the "proprietary info" businesses have. The makers of RoundUp say you can drink a gallon and be 'safe'. How do they make that claim? Who's drinking it? Not the company's representatives. The tobacco corporate leaders got up in front of our congress and outright lied about the safety of cigarettes.

Our bottom line here and around the world is money, not people. I've said it before. What you need, Sam, is a sea change. If we had kept the citizen and not the dollar the bottom line we would have much more sensible regulation and much less of it. And many fewer salesmen to dupe a much better armed (w/info) population. It's about the underlying drives in society. The money magic has us by the (pick your sensitive part).

[lcam88]

Would this vision include the ability for folks to discuss the data produced by high profile atl community celebrities? And based on the data provide opinions about the information, opinions as to what might be the motivations for putting out the information the data reveals? Honestly? What is your view on this matter, Icam88?

I shared much of my view in my first posting to this thread, Sam Hunter.

But to expand, I think suppression or repression of the truth is always detrimental to the whole; even by strategies like disinformation, and especially crowd control. But, here are a few things about human nature, the culture one is brought up in perhaps, that indeed may create a requirement for some authority to set limits. I view such authority as a correction to disequilibrium, entrusted to be able to check exaggeration in whatever form it may take. Perhaps one example of an exaggeration that comes to mind is offending someone so their freedom to express opinion is diminished or suppressed.

And for context of the 5 issues you originally quote, think outside the arena of forums, media and celebrities. They are issues regarding the very fabric of society.

[Chester]

In quotes - Sam Hunter's original comments and then sinzzer's comments in bold

Sam Hunter's current responses are outside of the quotes.

And experiencers who do not tell the truth but tell good stories and "psuedo-researchers" who require these "flavors of the month" to perpetuate their own scam.

Why would we spend energy on people who tell lies to the public?

Do you have children? If you do, do you advise your children? If so, why?

So if you can understand that there is the vulnerable who may be less equipped and/or less capable to discern then is it not a good thing that folks have the opportunity to pint out what may be helpful and what may be harmful where they back it up with the reasons for their opinions?

I dont see any logic in that my friend.

Did the above help clear it up?

we just need to make a door and keep it closed for those people, and use the time we have to enjoy life or to find the truth.

Meanwhile is this what some of the ethnic groups said in Nazi Germany back in the mid 30s? How well did there doors stay shut?

The only way a truthful experiencer that becomes a celebrity can be separated from a "brand where truth doesn't matter" that had becomes a celebrity is when folks are able to freely discuss all aspects of all these high profile types.

Then those who have less discernment capability can make more informed choices as to what to take seriously and what to avoid.

I totally agree with you here.

Thank You.

And so I will say this really clearly. I know I should stop posting these types of thoughts here on the One Truth because I am getting the message more and more every day... and can see in the forum guidelines more and more every day and can understand from reading the PMs I have gotten that this is not wanted here at TOT.

And its my opinion that the owners and top management have the full right to make TOT as they wish. So it is perhaps best that I move on from TOT. The one thing that holds me back though is that their may still be a soul or two that is a member or arrives here or is a lurker who might be assisted by my views. If that's the case and my views assist just one other being in their journey towards the ability to think for themselves and from that begin to take real responsibility for their life and thus avoid the entrapment set by perpetuating paradigms of dis-empowerment and reliance on the "formula' (Others are here to save the day, here's your new, special messenger, here's how you get on the intel drip feed here's where you send your cash) that actually sucks the vulnerable of all connection to their soul which is why (IMO) the PTBs don't stop these sellers of false hope and in fact behind the scenes find every way to assist them.

Well its always good to say what you think, i do that all th time.
But if you walk away because the reaction was not like, you thought it would be.
Then you probaly will get the same problem everywhere, because this is not a TOT problem.
Opinions will always be different.

Because a few weeks back I received PMs from one of the management that told me that I should bring content like I used to which was not focused so heavily on a specific area.

Yet I prefer to post about and discuss what interests me. If the thing that interests me the most is something I am asked not to focus on by the management and yet that is all that I am interested in focusing upon at this time, then I was simply expressing that if management felt I should leave the forum, I would oblige.

And actually, I do not have this problem everywhere else I am at which is several other forums. My point needs to remain my point and not be misunderstood. I hope this clarifies this for you.

And if people respect each other opinion, then why would anyone walk away?
There would be no reason for that then.

No one is walking away. All I am saying is that this particular subject area is the area of interest for me at this time. If management, based on those PMs I received, feels that its better I move on because of the areas of my focus... then I will.

I desire to focus on exposing the "experiencer/researcher/protected environment scam" used by so many in the alternative community because this scam threatens my children, my loved ones, my friends and the vulnerable who I may not know personally but to whom I feel an obligation towards as a fellow ensouled being.

I hope this is clear, sinnzer.

And that also count with this discussion.
You are damn right about if people ask money for there lies.

Thank You.

But the big qeustion is, what is a lie and what is the truth?

Exactly... and it would be nice if these matters could be exposed.

Who had proven that someone tell lies and who tell the truth?

It would be nice if this could be done.

because i see some kind of figure in your statements but no name.
Then i wounder, who do you mean?
But never mind.

It doesent matter who it is, what matter is , what are the lies and that needs to be expose to the public.
Then we all can give it a place and nobody will buy anything from there, end of story.

This can only be discussed and documented without restrictions (other than requiring it be done civilly) and thus in the environment here it cannot be done do to the forum guidelines. I feel I push the envelope of these guidelines and that was one of the reasons I made my comment. This is why I have suggested that if management desired I move on then I would do so because my interest in the subject matter is as vigorous as ever and it is almost all I find of interest here. Several of the top threads found in the General section of this forum touch on aspects of this central area of concern.

And if someone cant prove it, then he should not force his opinion or thoughts on others.

Ohhh, but it easily can and one day likely will all come out anyways - but then there's the vulnerable that are sent here via links to this site who need the information the most so that they can make informed decisions.

He can say, this is what i believe and then all should respect it and move on.
Its as easy as that if you ask me.

One does not have to believe a thing when the facts with documentation and verification are all laid down on the table. One only needs to look at the facts.

[Chester]

3. corruption issues like being conned into something and getting the shaft

Yes... this one is my current primary interest.

[Chester]

I shared much of my view in my first posting to this thread, Sam Hunter.

But to expand, I think suppression or repression of the truth is always detrimental to the whole; even by strategies like disinformation, and especially crowd control.

Yes.

[sinzzer]

In quotes - Sam Hunter's original comments and then sinzzer's comments in bold


Do you have children? If you do, do you advise your children? If so, why?

Sorry for the late reacton, i was celebrating fathersday.
So yeah i have kids, and i give them advice when they ask for it.
IN other words i give them answers when they come with qeustions and i dont brainwash them with my believe system.
Meanwhile am a father to them who prepare them for the future.

So if you can understand that there is the vulnerable who may be less equipped and/or less capable to discern then is it not a good thing that folks have the opportunity to pint out what may be helpful and what may be harmful where they back it up with the reasons for their opinions?

Ofcourse i understand that, there for i searching for ways to find a solution for this situation.
And not for you,but me and probaly many more also think about that.

But no matter what situation am in, i always look for a way to make it better.
To me talking about the same things is a just a waste of time.
I just want to know, what is the problem?
Can we fix it?
yes or no or what is it?
That is just my logic.

Did the above help clear it up?

Your logic from above is no logic for me.
In the Netherlands we have a saying.
Comparing apples with pears.
By asking if am a parent and by asking why would i give my kids advice.
Then you compare kids with the readers and advice with pointing out the mistakes of someone else.
That is not the same my friend, that is comparing apples with pears.
I dont want to argue about this, but it is as how it is.

Meanwhile is this what some of the ethnic groups said in Nazi Germany back in the mid 30s? How well did there doors stay shut?

They were talking about a door to close the country.
Am talking about, making universal guidelines to divide the truth from lies.
Then there is no chance to go in, that is a complete different door then what the nazis had in mind.

Thank You

You welcome

Because a few weeks back I received PMs from one of the management that told me that I should bring content like I used to which was not focused so heavily on a specific area.

Yet I prefer to post about and discuss what interests me. If the thing that interests me the most is something I am asked not to focus on by the management and yet that is all that I am interested in focusing upon at this time, then I was simply expressing that if management felt I should leave the forum, I would oblige.

And actually, I do not have this problem everywhere else I am at which is several other forums. My point needs to remain my point and not be misunderstood. I hope this clarifies this for you.

Well am not talking about the general problem of you with this mods or with anyone else.
I would never ever mix in someone else his issues.
My statement in this topic was to point out what i think is one ofthe problems in a nutshell in the UFO community and not in this forum.
And what you or someone else has with the mods of this forum is not my business to be honest.
But i can say that am here for more then a year now, and i know if there is something then i just talk with the mod about it and move on.
So dont get me wrong, i came in the middle of this topic with my opinion about what i think is a major problem in the UFO community.

And if you answer on that , and say, well this or that and i better leave.
Then to me that comes over as , well we dont agree so i move on.
Just keep in mind i dont know of any history with situations here in this forum, and i want to keep it like that.
I know one thing, if i start to tell my issue to someone who is not in the issue.
Then he could change the story and make the issue bigger then what it was.
When i have a issue with who ever, i go straight to that person and ask him what time it is.
No matter who they are.

No one is walking away. All I am saying is that this particular subject area is the area of interest for me at this time. If management, based on those PMs I received, feels that its better I move on because of the areas of my focus... then I will.

I desire to focus on exposing the "experiencer/researcher/protected environment scam" used by so many in the alternative community because this scam threatens my children, my loved ones, my friends and the vulnerable who I may not know personally but to whom I feel an obligation towards as a fellow ensouled being.

I hope this is clear, sinnzer.

Look like i said above, am not familiar with the issues.
But we are all human, so we all could make mistakes.
And maybe its not the problem that you talk about the issue.
And maybe its the problem how you talk about those issues.

For ecample, i saw in several comments from you that you mention some kind of figure who lies and tell stories.
Then i get the qeustion in my mind, about who are you talking about it?
Because if you know who and what he did.
Then said his name and show the proof.
That is a complete different story then approach the hole story as fake, by talking in a negative way about it.
That poison everyone, one person could react with arguments and someone else might get annoyd.
it depends on the person and his rank in this forum.
And to be honest this topic is not about some kind of person, but still it look like we are talking about some kind of person.
And that shows to me that maybe the intentions of the mods are right.

If you changed your tactic and proof that you are right, then its a win win situation because we all could learn from it.
or what we also could do is, talk negative or not indirect about someone and keep that negative vibe in some way, and then when the heat is hot we can say **** it...
I think we are way to intelligent for that.

Exactly... and it would be nice if these matters could be exposed.

Not only that my friend.
What you are talking about is just a brench of a tree.
Am talking about the hole tree should be exposed.
But exposed to where?
On a network what is handled by people who dont want these things exposed?
The network should changed, then people who tell lies or bring lies or hoax videos, then have no chance at all.
If we want, we could create that.

It would be nice if this could be done.

M8 you have the power to make that done.
What did you say earlier?
You had a talk with a business men right?
And you mentioned that he saw a good idea but saw no profit in it right?
That is because you gave him the wrong concept.
You can let him make profit if you come op with the right concept, and with that concept you can get what you wanted.
You have no idea what you had in your hands.

This can only be discussed and documented without restrictions (other than requiring it be done civilly) and thus in the environment here it cannot be done do to the forum guidelines. I feel I push the envelope of these guidelines and that was one of the reasons I made my comment. This is why I have suggested that if management desired I move on then I would do so because my interest in the subject matter is as vigorous as ever and it is almost all I find of interest here. Several of the top threads found in the General section of this forum touch on aspects of this central area of concern.

M8 if you have proof that someone tell lies, then everyone would listen.
Am sure of that.
But if you bring up conspiracy theories or something , then you cant aspect that this forum believe that without proof.
Look like i said before, i dont know whats going on and if you dont mind , i would like to keep it like that.
But the point is, if there is a problem with anyone then aproach him and if you have evidence what can debunk who or what ever, then just show it.

Ohhh, but it easily can and one day likely will all come out anyways - but then there's the vulnerable that are sent here via links to this site who need the information the most so that they can make informed decisions.

I have a saying, if someone mislead me then he is not the problem.
I am the problem, because i was blind and there for he misleaded me.
There for i need to enlighte meself, to make sure i cannot be blind again.
And with that, i can lighte the path of others who tried to mislead me.
Then even my enemy can change into a friend.

And this comment is not based on a opinion or something, i came from the streets and live a criminal life for years when i was young.
I never steal, only doing business.
So i know prety good how it feel to get misleaded and lose money.
I always was pist of on those guys, until it got me.
If i know how to see threw them, then they cant mislead me.

And there for it is needed to enlighten others, so they cant be misleaded anymore.
And that is possible if there would be a solid social secure network, to get information or to expose information.
Then it would be a place were the truth stand ground and lies have no place in it.

One does not have to believe a thing when the facts with documentation and verification are all laid down on the table. One only needs to look at the facts.

True, there for should be a solid and secure platform to expose that in the public.
But that counts for everything and that is a major problem in the UFO community.
We dont have that on this moment.
We only have places like this forum to meet and to talk about these issues.
And there for we should think of a smart way to go further and not use our minds to divide us more further.
Internet brought people together, but it surprised me how people even got further divided then before.
But hey, this is just my opinion.

[sinzzer]

Here's what I was thinking today: Can you take someone to court for spreading fake intel? I guess it comes under freedom of speech. But is there anything you can do, even a cease and desist, or some sort of legal letter, to someone who has misled people for years?

Did you ever heard that someone from the media or politics brought to court?
Look at the irac situation, vietnam or cambodia.
My woman is from Cambodia, and her family lived the story what others saw on tv or in movies.
Everything what they had saw and lost is a complete result by the lies of politics.
They almost destroyd the hole country.
So If we ever start think about that, then we should start with politics and the media.
There is a looooooooooonnnggg line of politics who did terrible things and they live like a king on this moment.
While they did terrible things.
Those guys should be the first guys to go there, if we even think about bringing someone to court.
Then they must go.
But that wount happend.
Until the people realize how to control and get the power, and then we can bring them to court and punish them.