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Thread: Why Charging Money for Disclosure-Related Information is Wrong

  1. #46
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    We're talking about disclosure. Also, availability of info. Some could be harmful.

    Snowden has been brought up. Great example IMO.

    I'd love to see all of it released and all of us analyse and debate it and decide what to do. Of course, that's completely unrealistic. There's a lot of info that could put people in danger. And we're not that good at analyzing and debating. Look at how many people talk about things like secession and marching on Washington.

    Snowden's in a very tough position. He has to find someone to help him do a controlled release.

    Why is he in such danger? Why does this happen to whistleblowers? It's not just governments that want information kept secret.

    In the disclosure world there are a lot of people who make their living investigating and reporting. The info they offer is often not their own and the sources wish to remain unseen.

    Who needs to be protected? Sources.

    Who else? The audience? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

    Seems you're already taking steps to help form a sort of discloser evaluator. There's only so much you can do.
    Last edited by Dreamtimer, 19th June 2015 at 19:56.

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  3. #47
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    No offense to anyone's politics...

    Sam, your statement about "Circular Verification and Vetting Clubs" so made me think of republicans. They seem to operate under the principle of "keep saying stuff over and over and people believe it." For example, the constant coupling of 911 and Iraq. I picture them in my mind standing around in a circle all repeating the same talking points. My friend George is currently using the same "these people" and "cops are gonna be afraid to do their jobs" lines he used last decade, and the decade before that, and the decade before that.... Yet he seems convinced his thinking is new and original.

    Of course, this group is just one side of the two-party coin doing this.

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    There is also an element of credibility related to disclosures being discussed.

    We like to give whistleblowers like Snowden the benefit of doubt because he appears to have taken so much risk. But we don't actually know. He may just be part of a disinformation campaign in the ranks of government and that may be why the information he releases is "selected". <shrug/>

    Personally I have looked at some of the information his entrusted journalist friend has released and find it quite plausible. The technical details of what I've seen are sound and so I think the information is quite authentic. But even then, it doesn't mean he isn't just "doing his job" as mandated by some superior officer as part of their internal power struggle between "ruling" factions. It doesn't even indicate that the faction sponsoring his activities are not also behind the current world order and their plans to destroy the image of Santa Claus, or whatever.

    Certainly being required to pay for that disclosure defeats the purpose the strategy being executed; a paywall means nothing in context of Snowden information. In fact a paywall might actually only serve to reduce his credibility.

    But regardless of my speculation, it does not change the fact that people are attracted to this information for personal reasons, including entertainment. Curiosity to know what a man has apparently endangered his freedom for the sake of sharing. His entrusted journalist friend obviously receives a salary; someone is paying him to do what he does.

    Queue theater curtain close...

    The world moves on and really, things continue as they where. The ripple of information regarding how privacy has diminished and what to do about it is just as far beyond our grasp as before. But we may get comfort from the idea than in some underground facility at a little known location, a man with vitamin D deficiency showing in his eyes may be looking into a computer screen to evaluate the banker suicide of the week and the Snowden revelation made so he may further contemplating the next hack he can make against his opponent.
    Last edited by lcam88, 19th June 2015 at 19:55.

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  7. #49
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    We pay for news. The press is our "fourth estate". How many people even work to protect good investigative journalism?

    People watch VNRs and think it's actual news.

    Representatives vote on bills and we think they actually read/wrote the legislation. Did they? Maybe not.

    We have a lot of serious problems. No news here. Until someone forces me to pay for info from someone like DW, I'm not gonna worry about it.

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    Indeed something that really eiks me is when a journalist is roughed up by players in a regional conflict. Whether it be the Ukraine, Israel but especially where I live. There almost seems to be an incentive to poor journalism going on.

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    Quote Originally posted by lcam88 View Post
    All of that said, perhaps the best protective measures that may be taken are not necessarily restrictive in nature, but an educative process.
    Thank you... you have found the mark!

    So to educate someone about something should require the educator to back up what they are saying with facts and proof and validations of their opinions and arguments. This then requires free speech... and then we run into the problem when the speech (as I will freely admit of myself sometimes) becomes pounding.

    All dilemmas presented by the world of polarity where perhaps the best place to be is found somewhere in that magical middle but which also happens to be a specific location few can actually agree upon.

    Tricky.

    We like to give whistleblowers like Snowden the benefit of doubt because he appears to have taken so much risk. But we don't actually know. He may just be part of a disinformation campaign in the ranks of government and that may be why the information he releases is "selected". <shrug/>
    Yes... how do we know "Snowden" is not a pure disinfo agent? What has he told us that has not been already totally suspected? What is not being told that might be of far more significance?

    And so if each of us is isolated such that we cannot discuss these matters openly, we have to rely all and only ourselves in seeing all possible aspects of all possible matters.

    This is why (for me) it is important that we can have places where we can discuss these matters openly and freely. What is equally important is that these same places are the places where the vulnerable that suck the TEET of false hope gather as well.
    Last edited by Chester, 19th June 2015 at 22:26.

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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    We're talking about disclosure. Also, availability of info. Some could be harmful.

    Snowden has been brought up. Great example IMO.

    I'd love to see all of it released and all of us analyse and debate it and decide what to do. Of course, that's completely unrealistic. There's a lot of info that could put people in danger. And we're not that good at analyzing and debating. Look at how many people talk about things like secession and marching on Washington.

    Snowden's in a very tough position. He has to find someone to help him do a controlled release.

    Why is he in such danger? Why does this happen to whistleblowers? It's not just governments that want information kept secret.

    In the disclosure world there are a lot of people who make their living investigating and reporting. The info they offer is often not their own and the sources wish to remain unseen.

    Who needs to be protected? Sources.

    Who else? The audience? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

    Seems you're already taking steps to help form a sort of discloser evaluator. There's only so much you can do.
    There's also a lot of lies. there's complete paradigms out there which are nothing but lies.

    So we put everything out there and there will be groups whose "paradigm" conflicts with... indeed cannot exist in the same 3d universe as another group's paradigm.

    How does all that get sorted?

    See this thread as an idea -

    http://jandeane81.com/threads/7161-H...dy-experiences

    Note, I spoke with a successful business man from Houston yesterday for several hours in my home office here in Dallas. I pitched him the idea of a true, alternative media industry watchdog site. He loved the idea but was interested in how it would be profitable.

    See the conflict of interest there? My view is that it couldn't be. It would have to be non-profit and provide open books. All individuals involved in the project must also be squeaky clean.

    He loved the idea but would not invest unless it could generate profit.

    Fortunately... he gave me the number of a friend of his that might be.

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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    No offense to anyone's politics...

    Sam, your statement about "Circular Verification and Vetting Clubs" so made me think of republicans. They seem to operate under the principle of "keep saying stuff over and over and people believe it." For example, the constant coupling of 911 and Iraq. I picture them in my mind standing around in a circle all repeating the same talking points. My friend George is currently using the same "these people" and "cops are gonna be afraid to do their jobs" lines he used last decade, and the decade before that, and the decade before that.... Yet he seems convinced his thinking is new and original.

    Of course, this group is just one side of the two-party coin doing this.
    Both US parties do this... all the world's political parties do this. That's why some in the Alternative Community Industry have recognized the benefits in doing this and have adopted the MO.

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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    We pay for news. The press is our "fourth estate". How many people even work to protect good investigative journalism?

    People watch VNRs and think it's actual news.

    Representatives vote on bills and we think they actually read/wrote the legislation. Did they? Maybe not.

    We have a lot of serious problems. No news here. Until someone forces me to pay for info from someone like DW, I'm not gonna worry about it.
    There are still attempts to get as close to truthful news and editorial comment out


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA2BzqF24SE

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    What my opinion is, we dont coorperate.
    We dont play it smart, together we could play it smart.
    But we dont do that now.
    So the only actions we see are the outcomes of this system.

    I remember when COrey came on this forum, i saw him replied on comments for months!!
    That takes time and energy.
    And i saw nobody said, YOU KNOW WHAT!
    Lets find a way to make money because you wil get screwd big time sooner or later.
    Ooo you want to be in the public???
    hhhm let me see... that means no income from normal work because all will see you like a moron.
    That means you need to get extra money to live, sleep and eat to live.
    Come on people he is sharing stuff, he will get screwd big time.
    Lets support him and think of ways of how to continue this and get wiser from all this.
    I heard no soul....

    But the only thing i seee, hey Corey what is this and what this and what planet this and what alien that.
    Maybe its just me, but am a chess player and i think four steps a head.
    And where smoke is, is fire.
    And he brought the smoke, so lets look for the fire.
    But then we must first secure the smoke, otherwise we cant find the fire!

    Or another ecample, the videos of Mojo.
    I might be one of the people who can said, yes they are spaceships.
    And he film them.
    And why i can say that, because i see them also.
    Yes i see them, last week was proof that i see spaceships here.
    And no, am talking about real spacecrafts.
    I saw it, i saw it 100%
    Last week one materialized right in front of me, like it came out of a warpspeed.
    And fly for 8 seconds or something in half a moon around me.
    It had no tail and was not flying in a straight line.
    Imagine a speedboat on high speed going over the waves? Well soemthing like that.

    And the shape looked like the starttrek enterprise, and very bright.
    And nooooo that was no airplane, meteor or what ever.
    I saw this real good.
    And i saw more and film allot, just like Mojo or any other witness in this forum.

    But who said, HEY lets work together and get better equipment to get better videos??
    Nobody.
    And no offense, but that is just the mentality around this phenomena, no organisation everywhere.
    Everyone is w8ting for someone to film star trek above there home, while he barbeque with some aliens.
    And in the meantime more then 7 miljard sheeps are w8ting for a miracle and let a small group of elite have all the fun and the truth.

    There for some people get forced to walk the paths what others made for them, alone you cant do much.
    And othrs get lost in it, because of the money.
    Like what happend with the roswell case is just a shame.
    But david wilcock comes on tv, and everyone on tv get paid.
    it cost money to get on tv, so one way or another he will make money in one way or another.
    But i cant see his case the same as COrey for ecample, if he did all for the money.
    Then he would have started from day one, or he could have walked many other paths to make money.
    We all can see he is smart enough to have different ways.
    Same count for Mojo or all other witnes here.
    Am here in this forum for more then one year and i only saw one time one guy, were i thought, ok maybe he is looking for views or something.
    But i cant see that as making money to be honest, because i know how that is.
    I also make videos and upload them, i see how much someone can make.
    And you need to be third phase of the moon to make something.

    But how me or the others do, is just different.
    We take risk to go outside to meet the unknown, they coould easily be hostile.
    How do we know.
    But we stil go for the truth and accept everything we get.
    That means social structure can fall in because others might not believe you, or that someone put to much time in that "hobby", what might irritate the partner.
    And beside that, everyone get nuked on the internet with negative vibes.
    And only because we want to share what we see or know.

    And i dont know what corey is doing now, and how he make money or something.
    But i know for sure that he give information for free, for months and i only look at that.
    What is now is a possible outcomes of those actions.
    So he did what we all did, share our information.
    And ofcourse other will use that to make money.
    And that system will always stay like that.
    Until we wake up and realize, we are on the same boat and we need to row together to come forwards.

    Everyone is important, everyone!!
    And not only the people who tell the story or bring the footage.
    If people work together, think of a common solution then al can win.
    Not only youtube, google or the big media companys.
    We loose because we use them.
    I think its time, to bypass them and use our own safe and secure P2P network.
    The old days are over, MUFOn, YOUTUBE, Sites who have "UFO" news.

    We all know there is something, but only if we play smart then we can find the truth.
    For ecample, if someone brings information then the information needs to be for the public and the person who brings the information can earn money from it , in a smart way.
    Because we using the numbers we have.
    That also count for anyone who film something.
    And thats not happening on this moment.

    SO yeah we can talk about how anyone wants to make a living.
    But at the end of day we cant accept a system to work, what created the problem in the first place.
    And that is that monopoly position were almost everyone is caught in it.

    And dont get me wrong, this mentality is worldwide.
    No matter what forum you are or what situation you in it.
    People are doing this to survive in this system and we keep doing this until we change the system.
    And to change the system we need to work together.
    If the common goal is the truth, then i dont see any reason why it should fail.
    And dont get me wrong please, asking money for knowledge is not good.
    But i know that the ones who do that are not the ones of the frontline.
    As always the guys in the background making the big money and the one with the story must struggle to survive.
    I think and i know everyone could help change this mentality!
    BUt like i said, this is just my opinion what is on my mind for weeks now.

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    Sinzzer, I love your sincerity and your ability to see clearly. Thanks.

    One of the reasons I avoided diving into the New Age and Alternative communities is because of the vast worlds of belief that exist. How to begin? How to sort? At first it was too much. Recently, I use my own tools of instinct, following opportunities and synchronicities and trusting my judgment.

    If we work together like Sinzzer suggests, it would make it easier for those who don't have the knowledge or tools of discernment.

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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Sinzzer, I love your sincerity and your ability to see clearly. Thanks.

    One of the reasons I avoided diving into the New Age and Alternative communities is because of the vast worlds of belief that exist. How to begin? How to sort? At first it was too much. Recently, I use my own tools of instinct, following opportunities and synchronicities and trusting my judgment.

    If we work together like Sinzzer suggests, it would make it easier for those who don't have the knowledge or tools of discernment.
    Thank you Dreamtimer.
    I honestly feel that it is the problem of mankind in a nutshell.
    And almost every strong organisation had proven that they got strong after they worked with each other.
    I think its time the UFO community should do the same.
    Its got dividied by lies, debunkers, fallacies and "science".

    And i dont know were to start to be honest, i only talked with two people about this.
    But bottomline is, its time for a change.

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    Quote Originally posted by sinzzer View Post
    Thank you Dreamtimer.
    I honestly feel that it is the problem of mankind in a nutshell.
    And almost every strong organisation had proven that they got strong after they worked with each other.
    I think its time the UFO community should do the same.
    Its got dividied by lies, debunkers, fallacies and "science".

    And i dont know were to start to be honest, i only talked with two people about this.
    But bottomline is, its time for a change.
    And experiencers who do not tell the truth but tell good stories and "psuedo-researchers" who require these "flavors of the month" to perpetuate their own scam.

    The only way a truthful experiencer that becomes a celebrity can be separated from a "brand where truth doesn't matter" that had becomes a celebrity is when folks are able to freely discuss all aspects of all these high profile types.

    Then those who have less discernment capability can make more informed choices as to what to take seriously and what to avoid.

    And so I will say this really clearly. I know I should stop posting these types of thoughts here on the One Truth because I am getting the message more and more every day... and can see in the forum guidelines more and more every day and can understand from reading the PMs I have gotten that this is not wanted here at TOT.

    And its my opinion that the owners and top management have the full right to make TOT as they wish. So it is perhaps best that I move on from TOT. The one thing that holds me back though is that their may still be a soul or two that is a member or arrives here or is a lurker who might be assisted by my views. If that's the case and my views assist just one other being in their journey towards the ability to think for themselves and from that begin to take real responsibility for their life and thus avoid the entrapment set by perpetuating paradigms of dis-enpowerment and reliance on the "formula' (Others are here to save the day, here's your new, special messenger, here's how you get on the intel drip feed here's where you send your cash) that actually sucks the vulnerable of all connection to their soul which is why (IMO) the PTBs don't stop these sellers of false hope and in fact behind the scenes find every way to assist them.

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    sinzzer:

    I like your post too.

    The general idea you are sharing boils down to working together, that in isolation we find ourselves diminished and yet there are some people who share even in that isolation and in disorganization.

    There are a couple of issues that are meaningful to me, in this context:

    1. scarcity and the uncertainty that investments of valuable energy and resources will indeed yield results
    2. a general lack of vision, knowledge of what true potentials are possible as a part of such a group
    3. corruption issues like being conned into something and getting the shaft
    4. ideological differences in all aspects but specifically leadership
    5. goals for the short mid and long term prospects of the group.

    I'd be happy to examine these issues and perhaps add to the list as a Prerequisite to Union of sort. I have ideas that are related. Feel free to open a new thread on the topic and I'll chime in.

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    Quote Originally posted by lcam88 View Post
    sinzzer:

    I like your post too.

    The general idea you are sharing boils down to working together, that in isolation we find ourselves diminished and yet there are some people who share even in that isolation and in disorganization.

    There are a couple of issues that are meaningful to me, in this context:

    1. scarcity and the uncertainty that investments of valuable energy and resources will indeed yield results
    2. a general lack of vision, knowledge of what true potentials are possible as a part of such a group
    3. corruption issues like being conned into something and getting the shaft
    4. ideological differences in all aspects but specifically leadership
    5. goals for the short mid and long term prospects of the group.

    I'd be happy to examine these issues and perhaps add to the list as a Prerequisite to Union of sort. I have ideas that are related. Feel free to open a new thread on the topic and I'll chime in.
    Would this vision include the ability for folks to discuss the data produced by high profile atl community celebrities? And based on the data provide opinions about the information, opinions as to what might be the motivations for putting out the information the data reveals? Honestly? What is your view on this matter, Icam88?

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