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Thread: How should anyone rate the validity of anyone's unprovable, other-worldy experiences?

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    How should anyone rate the validity of anyone's unprovable, other-worldy experiences?

    Can we create a bona-fide legitimate and generally agreed upon criteria in rating the likely (or not) validity of anyone's publicly presented non-provable, other worldly experiences? Clearly, it is difficult to expect proof... so then how can we assess the potential veracity (or not) of someone's stories?

    If so - Here is my starter list.

    1.) Maintaining consistency over time about key details of the story.

    2.) Is there financial benefit gained from sharing the story publicly.

    3.) Is the story teller gaining a spotlight from which they might achieve a sense of relevancy that it appears they are unable to get in "the real world."

    4.) Does the experiencer project through their actions (words written and spoken as well as their deeds) that they actually "get" the core message which they often push upon others?

    5.) To what degree does the experiencer use psychological tricks to ensnare the vulnerable?

    6.) To what degree does the experiencer get defensive when ever a question as to the veracity of their stories arises?

    There's a starter list.

    And then... I feel it might be wise we consider the following -

    What factors of the paradigm(s) suggested by the experiences can be drawn forth and measured as to attractiveness or not?

    What underlying dynamics can be seen at play within the paradigm(s) suggested by the experiencer?

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    Note for example, regarding the synchronicities I experience, I do all I can to document them and obtain artifacts that back up the experience. Many times I have others with me while the synchronicity arises, so I have third party testimony. But still... there are elements of synchronicities which I may never be able to prove such as "the thought that was crossing my mind at the moment the synchronicity arose." In cases such as that... there should still be criteria which may be explored by some one who might read my "story" about a synchronicity experience. I would believe that anyone's legitimately obtained criteria list should be considered as valid.
    Last edited by Chester, 18th June 2015 at 02:52.

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    Sooo... What do others use for criteria when using their intellect as part of their full arsenal of discernment tools?
    Last edited by Chester, 15th June 2015 at 21:20.

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    Quote Originally posted by Sam Hunter View Post
    Sooo. what do others use for criteria when using their intellect as part of their full arsenal of discernment tools?
    For me i don't use any.I don't try to disprove what anyone wants to believe that's why this place is great.We can all post stuff on here and not get ridiculed for it.Errrrrrrrrrrr well maybe not lol.

    For what its worth about 98% of what we are told is probably false and maybe that percentage could be a slight higher.At the end of the day its how you follow something that's of meaning to you and i think that's whats most important.I started to stop trying to discredit xyz because it was sending me mad lol.I once tried to say something about David Ickle once and omg it was like how dare you.

    We are all very special in our own ways and all of us have something great to contribute.I have always said lol forums are better than reality TV
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    Quote Originally posted by Sam Hunter View Post
    2.) Is there financial benefit gained from sharing the story publicly.
    It may be true that someone is more interested in the money than on a quality product, but I've also seen this used many, many times by self-proclaimed "debunkers" to dismiss various authors out of hand. It's as if someone has written a book, therefore they are a fraud. At least it can go that far in some cases.

    I try to take everything into consideration, including the content of the message and why I feel this message is important for me to hear, or why someone would want me to hear this message. You can't always make a determination either, and a lot of things are filed in the back of my mind as "interesting but not yet proven."

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    Quote Originally posted by The One View Post
    For me i don't use any.I don't try to disprove what anyone wants to believe that's why this place is great.We can all post stuff on here and not get ridiculed for it.Errrrrrrrrrrr well maybe not lol.

    For what its worth about 98% of what we are told is probably false and maybe that percentage could be a slight higher.At the end of the day its how you follow something that's of meaning to you and i think that's whats most important.I started to stop trying to discredit xyz because it was sending me mad lol.

    We are all very special in our own ways and all of us have something great to contribute.I have always said lol forums are better than reality TV
    Thanks for this post.

    Now let me ask this... with regards to our children, do we not step in sometimes? I did and do. And I always get asked, "Why Dad." I feel its my responsibility to have a valid response. I recall when I was a kid, I asked "why" all the time. I appreciated it when I had a valid response.

    So then... that's our own kids, yet some of us are compelled to feel some responsibility with regards to the vulnerable.

    So then... is the inner call that some of us hear to point out when others may be falling for something which almost any sane, caring person would agree will lead them into unnecessary to experience trouble... that inner call - should we ignore it?

    And here's why I ask this to you The One.

    Because if your view is that yes... we should mind our own business in this regard... and the fact that this is your forum and you want it to be run this way that reflects this view, then I accept this as of this moment and I won't challenge another thing here. There it is in writing and I will stand by it.

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    Because if your view is that yes
    I never said that

    Once i tried to discredit David Ickel for his beliefs and it was like omg i could not believe the barrage of insults i got from disagreeing with his beliefs because he had such a huge following.So i took a step back and thought whats the point.You are always going to have a group of people who will stick up for who they believe is true and that's our human instinct.I wish as a species we were all one buts that never going to happen for millennium unless divine intervention or whatever you want to call it happens.We are the only species on the planet who get pleasure from killing each other mmmm what does that tell you.

    All i try to do is not discredit anyone and draw a balance.By the way i am Jesus

    No one person can ever change the truth, but the truth, once learned, can and will change the person

    You must be the change you wish to see in the world when you are through changing, you are through


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    Quote Originally posted by The One View Post
    I never said that

    Once I tried to discredit David Ickel for his beliefs and it was like omg i could not believe the barage of insults i got from disagreeing with his beliefs.So i took a step back and thought whats the point.You are always going to have a group of people who will stick up for who they believe is true


    All i try to do is not discredit anyone and draw a balance.By the way i am Jesus

    Hahaha ok ok We are cool. I also have some issues with David Icke. At the same time I am sure David Icke may have a few issues about me.

    I do have to give David Icke credit for waking me up though. But I would never jump on you or anyone for criticizing him either especially when you provide examples.
    Last edited by Chester, 18th June 2015 at 02:55.

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    Quote Originally posted by Sam Hunter View Post
    Hahaha ok ok We are cool. I also have some issues with David Icke but I imagine he would have some with me. At the same time I am sure David Icke may have a few issues about me. I do have to give Icke credit for waking me up though. But I would never jump on you or anyone for criticizing him either especially when you provide examples.
    Hi Sam i am going to bed now but will talk about this more at some time and i apologise for all the DI followers, but when he mentioned his Turquoise period and writes that he had been channelling for some time, and had received a message through automatic writing that he was a Son of the Godhead then my alarm bells went off.He then began to wear only turquoise.He actually held a press conference to announce that hecwas a son of the Godhead. He said the world would end in 1997

    And on that note goodnight
    No one person can ever change the truth, but the truth, once learned, can and will change the person

    You must be the change you wish to see in the world when you are through changing, you are through


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    I have a huge issue with the latest positions taken by the "truth without proof" brigade that has recently cropped up. When someone, whether they are part of the disclosure movement or not, asks their audience to simply have blind faith regarding their statements, my inner alarms bells start ringing loudly. The amount of abuse that's possible with this kind of presentation can easily be found in cult groups. The "prophets" for blind faith always start by categorizing this idea as a moral imperative; that proof cannot be given because it is the "right thing."

    In the most recent "publishings," the way this is being done is we're told that the goal for disclosure is not to convert anyone who doesn't already believe everything the messenger says, and that it's being done to "soften the blow" for full disclosure. In a way, this kind of statement attempts to elevate those, in their own minds, the people who believe the message as a "chosen" group who follow in their faith, while those who do not believe are not part of this "chosen" group. The result is a divided community of "believers" and "non-believers." Through division there is manipulation and control.

    The second reason that's being given is that the benevolent outside groups simply cannot assist with "evidence" because it breaks some kind of "prime directive." This is a hard pill to swallow because it's supposedly linked to the idea that presenting evidence is associated with an ambiguous amount of "calling" from humanity (I suppose they mean in meditation/prayer/etc), which would otherwise be in violation of our free will. This is convenient for the "prophet" because it sets up a prerequisite for evidence that can never be independently verified. Those who question this are told that they just need to pray harder or meditate more, and then maybe, just maybe, evidence will come; but it never does.

    The recent disclosure work found on these forums and others is starting to look more and more like the beginning of a religion. I do not plan to cast aside all information without first considering it's implications, but anyone who takes what these "informants" say without a grain a salt are opening themselves up to be manipulated.
    Last edited by bstuart, 15th June 2015 at 22:13.

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    Extremely very well said Bstuart

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    It does seem unfair that proof is reserved for putting those doing harm away, but not in getting the info to put them away. I'm having trouble figuring out how that works. There is an International Tribunal being set up to try those who have committed crimes against humanity. There have been millions of US government records stolen for proof to put these people away. I don't understand how anyone can be forced to pay for their actions without proof. Can we get a guilty verdict for attempted zombie apocalypse based on a researcher's word?

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    The short answer is "actionable strategic wisdom and provable results." But you've compiled an excellent list Sam. Much better than anything I've written so far. I challenge anyone to make an online spreadsheet or wiki laying out various researchers in the field and document them according to the above criteria, then assign a percentage 'score' to them. They could keep it accurate but light hearted, and avoid any urge to make commentary. Researchers need to be rigorously tested like Dyson vacuum cleaners.

    Our track record is available on request. I'm currently compiling it but busy now... searches for "The Evil Agartha Network" will bring a partial list. If that quote is against TOT policy, mods are welcome to remove it, no worries.

    Any human has the right to screw up, go down blind alleys, make huge mistakes, but readers have the right to know someone's track record.
    Last edited by Daozen, 15th June 2015 at 22:51.

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    Quote Originally posted by bstuart View Post
    I have a huge issue with the latest positions taken by the "truth without proof" brigade that has recently cropped up. When someone, whether they are part of the disclosure movement or not, asks their audience to simply have blind faith regarding their statements, my inner alarms bells start ringing loudly. The amount of abuse that's possible with this kind of presentation can easily be found in cult groups. The "prophets" for blind faith always start by categorizing this idea as a moral imperative; that proof cannot be given because it is the "right thing."

    In the most recent "publishings," the way this is being done is we're told that the goal for disclosure is not to convert anyone who doesn't already believe everything the messenger says, and that it's being done to "soften the blow" for full disclosure. In a way, this kind of statement attempts to elevate those, in their own minds, the people who believe the message as a "chosen" group who follow in their faith, while those who do not believe are not part of this "chosen" group. The result is a divided community of "believers" and "non-believers." Through division there is manipulation and control.

    The second reason that's being given is that the benevolent outside groups simply cannot assist with "evidence" because it breaks some kind of "prime directive." This is a hard pill to swallow because it's supposedly linked to the idea that presenting evidence is associated with an ambiguous amount of "calling" from humanity (I suppose they mean in meditation/prayer/etc), which would otherwise be in violation of our free will. This is convenient for the "prophet" because it sets up a prerequisite for evidence that can never be independently verified. Those who question this are told that they just need to pray harder or meditate more, and then maybe, just maybe, evidence will come; but it never does.

    The recent disclosure work found on these forums and others is starting to look more and more like the beginning of a religion. I do not plan to cast aside all information without first considering it's implications, but anyone who takes what these "informants" say without a grain a salt are opening themselves up to be manipulated.
    Great Post - great points... look at this -

    http://divinecosmos.com/start-here/d...+Newsletter%29

    I UNDERSTAND MOST PEOPLE PROBABLY THINK THIS IS B.S.

    A fundamental part of the "Prime Directive" is truth without proof.

    The higher-level beings cannot simply reveal themselves to us. There must be a calling, where a sufficient number of people request their help, before intervention can occur.

    We are truly blessed to have ongoing "Divine Intervention" taking place. This is the only thing that has stopped the Cabal from destroying most of our lives.
    So we have this "disclosure guy" telling us there is something out of Star Trek that is actually real called the Prime Directive and that a "fundamental part of" it is (and I now translate what he said) -

    "Whatever we tell you is the truth and you have no choice but to accept it and we don't have to provide any validity to what we are saying because we are (insert any current high profile Alt Community celebrity) and that's all you need to know to fully integrate this truth into your whole entire being!"

    And just after that he tells us -

    THE ZOMBIE PROGRAM

    The Cabal has been very innovative in coming up with a multitude of different ways to try to kill the majority of people on earth.

    One of the more upsetting and shocking ones I learned about, from three different credible insiders, is actually called "The Zombie Program."

    Using advanced cloning techniques, 150 million humans were manufactured in the US, all held in underground bases west of the Rockies, and another 100 million in Europe.

    They would look more or less like ordinary people -- not what you see in the movies. The men might typically be wearing a plaid shirt and blue jeans.
    I won't quote the rest just in case anyone still has retained "their lunch."
    Last edited by Chester, 18th June 2015 at 02:59.

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    Quote Originally posted by Contact Point View Post
    The short answer is "strategic wisdom and provable results." But you've compiled an excellent list Sam. Much better than anything I've written so far. I challenge anyone to make an online spreadsheet or wiki laying out various researchers in the field and document them according to the above criteria, then assign a percentage 'score' to them. They could keep it accurate but light hearted, and avoid any urge to make commentary. Researchers need to be rigorously tested like Dyson vacuum cleaners.

    Our track record is available on request. I'm currently compiling it but busy now... searches for "The Evil Agartha Network" will bring a partial list. If that quote is against TOT policy, mods are welcome to remove it, no worries.

    Any human has the right to screw up, go down blind alleys, make huge mistakes, but readers have the right to know someone's track record.
    I just thought of another criteria point -

    7.) The degree of desperation shown when the heat gets turned up.

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