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Thread: Is science finally finding evidence of the fact that space and time are an illusion?

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    Is science finally finding evidence of the fact that space and time are an illusion?


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YycAzdtUIko


    I found this video to be extremely fascinating, and I recommend watching it. It's only 9 minutes long. One of the best parts of this video is this rather mind-blowing implication: if you see your birth as point A on a line, and your death as point B on that line, then does that mean you are traveling that line in this life? NO. It means that you *are* the line.

    That sure does away with the notion of free will, doesn't it?

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    Quote Originally posted by Church View Post
    One of the best parts of this video is this rather mind-blowing implication: if you see your birth as point A on a line, and your death as point B on that line, then does that mean you are traveling that line in this life? NO. It means that you *are* the line.

    That sure does away with the notion of free will, doesn't it?
    Not necessarily. Free Will is actually a very complicated subject.

    First of all, there's the responsibility factor. We make our own decisions, and thus we are responsible for them, with varying degrees of personal accountability depending on whether one was coerced, or tempted, or tricked, and so on. From the vantage of consciousness however, that is all moot, because it's us making the decision and thus it's us who are responsible for the outcome of that decision, regardless of the degree of accountability. I'll get back to this farther down.

    Now, the best way of thinking of the space-time continuum itself would be to view it as a lattice of thick, braided ropes, with each rope consisting of thinner braided robes, and each of those thinner braids consisting of even thinner braided strings, and then each of those braided strings consisting of braided fibers, and so on. Or if you want another analogy, think of the Russian doll. And thus, you have your own, individual "time line" (or continuum), and then there is a wider time line which you share with the people in your own reality bubble, and then there's an even wider one which encompasses the entire planet, and an even wider one which encompasses the entire solar system, and so on. It's a very convoluted thing, and then it gets even more convoluted if you were to decide to jump onto a different braid -- i.e. time travel. But that's another interesting subject, which I've already expounded upon elsewhere, and which I'll be saving for a later occasion, because I have a feeling already that it's going to come up for discussion at some point in this thread either way.

    Continuing on with the topic of Free Will, this brings me to the second important aspect, which is that each of our decisions will take us on a different personal time line -- or a different personal continuum, or a different personal reality bubble, if you will. Otherwise put, our decisions are a mechanism of causality. They will influence what experiences we will be having for the remainder of our existence within said continuum, and also what experiences others, who are aligned with our own individual continuum -- continuing with the metaphor from the above paragraph: the braid which is one level thicker than your own individual braid -- will be having. If we put that in the vocabulary of quantum physics, then each decision we make -- whether consciously or subconsciously -- leads to a different collapse of a wave function, with that wave function itself being the collection of possible consequences to that decision.

    This, in itself, opens up an almost infinite number of potential outcomes, depending on the decisions made by others with whom we interact within our own personal continuum. Because they too all have their individual continuum, as well as a shared continuum comprised of all the people whom they interact with, who in turn also have their own personal continuum again, and a collective continuum that they in turn share with others who they themselves then also interact with again, and so on, ad infinitam.

    In the end, this is what Creation is all about. Source is nothing other than infinite but undifferentiated information in a perpetual quantum super state -- and super states within super states -- and each individual element of Creation is one of the possible collapses of the super state's wave function, so that the infinite consciousness that we're all part of will be having an experience, and as such, give meaning to the undifferentiated information. It is one thing to possess information in an abstract form, but it is quite another thing to understand the information. And understanding can only come from experience -- for whatever definition of the word "experience", of course.

    At the same time however, the Creator and its Creation are one, because time is an illusion. So there never really was a Creation -- and especially not by a white-bearded man sitting on a cloud -- and there also never really was a Big Bang. The distinction between Creator and Creation is simply the primary dichotomy, namely the difference between Self and Other, and as such it is the very first collapse of a wave function -- the word "first" not intended within a temporal context, of course. Everything else stems from both that primary dichotomy and the very fact that it exists. So in the end, we are all simply manifestations of Source, trying to understand the information it is comprised of, and thus, trying to understand itself.
    Last edited by Aragorn, 14th May 2015 at 06:20. Reason: slight adjustment of the presentation
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    Church, thanks for this. It's one I'll have to watch again 'cause it's packed with info. I am the line...for some strange reason this makes me think of Caddyshack ..."Be the ball, Danny."

    Aragorn, I really like your explanation of reality. I don't think I could have done it in just a couple of paragraphs.

    I am the line. The line is already there. It's a strand of possibilities, a strand in a "quantum super state", and as I live my life the wave function is collapsing and the possibilities are manifesting.

    I'm surfing the wave of life! Cool.

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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Church, thanks for this. It's one I'll have to watch again 'cause it's packed with info. I am the line...for some strange reason this makes me think of Caddyshack ..."Be the ball, Danny."
    I have seen a similar but animated video a while ago which depicts humans as a 4-dimensional snake when the 4th dimension represents time. One end of the snake is a baby, and the other end is an old man, and every single stage of our life in between is thus a cross-section of the snake at that point in time.

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Aragorn, I really like your explanation of reality. I don't think I could have done it in just a couple of paragraphs.

    I am the line. The line is already there. It's a strand of possibilities, a strand in a "quantum super state", and as I live my life the wave function is collapsing and the possibilities are manifesting.

    I'm surfing the wave of life! Cool.
    Yes. And consciousness itself is the very definition of life, namely the ability of something to exchange information with something else. Without consciousness, nothing has meaning -- and therefore, wouldn't exist.
    Last edited by Aragorn, 14th May 2015 at 06:13.
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    Cool video. To understand stuff, as Aragorn mentioned earlier, experience helps which is why I always need to try and find practical experiences to help me grapple with complex topics. The following experience helps me a bit with coming to terms with the time and free will concepts.

    Driving out of a shopping centre, (evening), I was blocked by a guy, (drinking alcohol), standing in the middle of the lane I was travelling on. He looked at me, looked back at his mates with a cocky "watch this boys" stance, and refused to move onto the path. About 15 males associated with this guy were standing on both sides of the lane, which was outside a fast-food restaurant. My first reaction was okay, this dude doesn't look "friendly", so I should reverse to where I can turn my vehicle around and find another exit . . . when, bam, time just stopped, (or I should probably say time slowed to the appearance of stopping). Everyone froze except me.

    I was then able to consider three potential moves. Reverse [the logical choice]; try and navigate between the guy and his mates via the other lane [next logical choice]; or drive straight ahead [illogical choice].
    Whilst considering my choices I was under no time pressure to hurry up and make a decision and was really enjoying that part. I also did not have any idea/prediction about what would happen after I made a choice; (apart from the predictive easy one of reversing).
    But, what was really important was that a key ingredient, which had determined my initial reactive choice, had been removed. Fear! I knew, without a shred of doubt, that whatever choice I made I would be okay!

    So I thought what the hell and chose the illogical one. When my car gently nudged the guy's leg he went into a rage and threw his beer bottle at my window, (was thankfully closed). What happened next, well, that's another story and isn't relevant to the time topic as everything that happened after this "choice" returned to what we experience as "normal time". But suffice to say it was an interesting and unpredictable experience for I didn't leave this situation immediately as I got out of my car and engaged with the crowd; and I was safe throughout everything that happened.
    {Just want to mention here that I am not advocating foolish behaviour as I would never have proceeded with this action without having had this metaphysical inception/experience first.}

    Okay, so what this experience physically demonstrated to me about time is that I do actually have "free will" and that time-space events can be predictable, but are not predetermined! One of our disablements that I was able to understand from this incident is with the cloak of fear steering our choices toward automatic selection thereby giving the appearance/illusion that we only have one choice; for when this veil was removed for me in the above incident my options, which were always there, expanded into greater potential for me to choose differently from, or not. I could still have chosen to reverse.

    What I have learnt from this, amongst other experiences and studies of course, is to consciously practice applying my will to opening up inception points before moving from one time string to the next. A time string meaning events that we experience; whether it's a time string for cooking a meal, working on a project, socializing . . . whatever. Easier said than done of course as we are so conditioned in letting habitual, pre-determined behaviours, steer our time string events/experiences.

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    Gemma, that sounds like an experience you could write a short story about. I haven't had time slow like that but I have had moments where everything around me seems to go quiet and that moment's action or choice is the "only" thing happening. It's surreal.

    There was a time when I was trail riding with my husband and his horse checked and tossed him over its shoulder. It seemed to happen in slow motion. He spun sideways through the air and landed on his back. I remember the look on his face and watching him move through the air. It seemed to unfold so slowly. But there was nothing I could do but watch. Fortunately he wasn't injured. He got back on the horse (because our son was there) and finished the ride. And never rode again.

    I'm pretty logical and analytical but I live life instinctively because my instincts know a whole lot more than my analyzing mind. That helps to get past emotions which cloud clear thinking.

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    My 11 year old actually just watched this video in school. She has been having a lot of interesting subject matter taught recently. Between that and the shows they are putting on the kids channels it certainly appears they are getting the younger generation prepared in someway for a change of paradigm.

    Corey/GoodETxSG

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    Quote Originally posted by Church View Post

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YycAzdtUIko


    I found this video to be extremely fascinating, and I recommend watching it. It's only 9 minutes long. One of the best parts of this video is this rather mind-blowing implication: if you see your birth as point A on a line, and your death as point B on that line, then does that mean you are traveling that line in this life? NO. It means that you *are* the line.
    If time is an illusion, then there is no Points A, B, Z or any other. There exists no beginning and no end (points).

    That sure does away with the notion of free will, doesn't it?
    Only if you believe that you are not reponsible, accountable for the reality you create.

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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Gemma, that sounds like an experience you could write a short story about. I haven't had time slow like that but I have had moments where everything around me seems to go quiet and that moment's action or choice is the "only" thing happening. It's surreal.
    As you become more and more consciously aware of who you really are, time becomes much more changeable, malleable and plastic.

    There was a time when I was trail riding with my husband and his horse checked and tossed him over its shoulder. It seemed to happen in slow motion. He spun sideways through the air and landed on his back. I remember the look on his face and watching him move through the air. It seemed to unfold so slowly. But there was nothing I could do but watch. Fortunately he wasn't injured. He got back on the horse (because our son was there) and finished the ride. And never rode again.

    I'm pretty logical and analytical but I live life instinctively because my instincts know a whole lot more than my analyzing mind. That helps to get past emotions which cloud clear thinking.
    Your physical mind is limited in its capabilities, thankfully, or we would never get anything accomplished in this physical experience, space-time illusion. You've come to that understanding, living in the Now, forming conduits to Your Core Self, your Higher Mind if you will. Congrats.

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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Not necessarily. Free Will is actually a very complicated subject.
    Only if you make it so. That is your choice.

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    Quote Originally posted by mac View Post
    If time is an illusion, then there is no Points A, B, Z or any other. There exists no beginning and no end (points).
    I'm afraid that's not correct. Time itself as it is perceived by the sentient beings on this planet may be an illusion, but that in itself does not negate the existence of causality. As far as causality is concerned, the points all still do exist. They are distinct events, and the evolution from one event to another is what we then call a process.

    Quote Originally posted by mac View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Free Will is actually a very complicated subject.
    Only if you make it so. That is your choice.
    You are dragging my comment completely out of context. It was a reference to my elaboration below that line.
    Last edited by Aragorn, 14th May 2015 at 14:00.
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    I'm afraid that's not correct. Time itself as it is perceived by the sentient beings on this planet may be an illusion, but that in itself does not negate the existence of causality. As far as causality is concerned, the points all still do exist. They are distinct events, and the evolution from one event to another is what we then call a process.
    Process is not time.

    Time is the function of the following as explained by those who would know. Our Essassani family (us 300 human-years in the future) and similar ET/IB civilizations. The idea can perhaps be best explained by this analogy.

    When you go to a movie, what you see on the screen is an illusion. It is film (or data) flowing in sequence that brings forth the idea of real people, movement, action, etc. Yes? Nothing real about the movies except...

    ...what you experience. The emotions, the thoughts that the movie generates, fear, laughter, including what you take away from the experience.

    Which, unlike physical irreality, these experiences are very real.

    Capiche?

    ...and that is simply called the film strip analogy. The idea that our life and our many lives are like the frames upon a strip of film, one frame at a time, one life at a time. These 'frames' are static parallel realities, an infinite number, but our consciousness [via the Higher Mind] chooses, on the fly, ones which to focus, to 'pull a frame from'.

    From the POV of the projectionist, hypothetically, all the frames exist right now. Your entire life is there all at once. All our lives, all the frames are there all at once. And from the POV of the hypothetical projectionist, which is the same as your Higher Self, your True core Being, any frame can be viewed at any moment, in any order.

    I am not speaking figuratively, I am not speaking philosophically, I am speaking physically, mechanically, literally. We, our Higher Minds, through the shifting of our consciousness billions of times per second, from parallel reality to parallel reality, are the 'creators' of our physical irreality. Much like a film strip, this movement from frame to frame produces the illusion of time, space, motion and through our consciousness, we 'see' matter in our dense state.

    This use of parallel realities is why there is no past or future, only Now, as we arrange with our consciousness this physical irreality for the purpose of experiencing it. Our Higher Mind arranges the frames for us in a way that is continuous and, so, we also experience continuity of events and time as an illusion.

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    Quote Originally posted by mac View Post
    Process is not time.
    I didn't say it was. What I said -- albeit in slightly different wording -- is that a process is a causal relationship between two events.

    Quote Originally posted by mac View Post
    Time is the function of the following as explained by those who would know. Our Essassani family (us 300 human-years in the future) and similar ET/IB civilizations. The idea can perhaps be best explained by this analogy.

    When you go to a movie, what you see on the screen is an illusion. It is film (or data) flowing in sequence that brings forth the idea of real people, movement, action, etc. Yes? Nothing real about the movies except...

    ...what you experience. The emotions, the thoughts that the movie generates, fear, laughter, including what you take away from the experience.

    Which, unlike physical irreality, these experiences are very real.

    Capiche?
    Yes, but that's a very solipsistic view. (And it's spelled "capisce", by the way. I had an Italian correct me on that once when I spelled it like you did here. )

    Quote Originally posted by mac View Post
    ...and that is simply called the film strip analogy. The idea that our life and our many lives are like the frames upon a strip of film, one frame at a time, one life at a time. These 'frames' are static parallel realities, an infinite number, but our consciousness [via the Higher Mind] chooses, on the fly, ones which to focus, to 'pull a frame from'.

    From the POV of the projectionist, hypothetically, all the frames exist right now. Your entire life is there all at once. All our lives, all the frames are there all at once. And from the POV of the hypothetical projectionist, which is the same as your Higher Self, your True core Being, any frame can be viewed at any moment, in any order.

    I am not speaking figuratively, I am not speaking philosophically, I am speaking physically, mechanically, literally. We, our Higher Minds, through the shifting of our consciousness billions of times per second, from parallel reality to parallel reality, are the 'creators' of our physical irreality. Much like a film strip, this movement from frame to frame produces the illusion of time, space, motion and through our consciousness, we 'see' matter in our dense state.

    This use of parallel realities is why there is no past or future, only Now, as we arrange with our consciousness this physical irreality for the purpose of experiencing it. Our Higher Mind arranges the frames for us in a way that is continuous and, so, we also experience continuity of events and time as an illusion.
    I do not necessarily disagree with the above, but it is a very nihilistic representation of how pure consciousness works. It's also almost word for word what Bashar says, so you're not being very original.

    Last edited by Aragorn, 14th May 2015 at 14:23. Reason: typographical correction
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    I do not necessarily disagree with the above, but it is a very nihilistic representation of how pure consciousness works. It's also almost word for word what Bashar says, so you're not being very original.
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...esiastes%201:9

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    Can a Future Choice Affect a Past Measurement's
    Outcome?


    “Could the laws of physics be pulling us inexorably toward our prewritten fate?”

    “if a particle’s past doesn’t contain enough information to determine its fate, then maybe its future does.”


    A series of quantum experiments seems to actually confirm the notion that the future can influence results that happened before those measurements were even made.


    “looking into the notion that time might flow backward, allowing the future to influence the past. By extension, the universe might have a destiny that reaches back and conspires with the past to bring the present into view. On a cosmic scale, this idea could help explain how life arose in the universe against tremendous odds. On a personal scale, it may make us question whether fate is pulling us inexorably forward and whether we have free will.”

    ~

    Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
    You fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way.
    Kicking around on a piece of ground in your home town
    Waiting for someone or something to show you the way.

    ~

    I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it,

    look before they cross the road...

    Stephen Hawking​

    ~

    So what does that have to do with time you ask? Plenty.


    ~ Time ~


    “I don’t understand you,” said Alice. “It’s dreadfully confusing!”
    “That’s the effect of living backwards,” the Queen said kindly:
    “it always makes one a little giddy at first—”
    “Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great astonishment. “I
    never heard of such a thing!”
    “–but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s memory
    works both ways.”
    “I’m sure mine only works one way,” Alice remarked. “I can’t
    remember things before they happen.”
    “It’s a poor sort of memory that only works backwards,” the
    Queen remarked.

    ~ Tell 'em a hookah smoking caterpillar Has given you the call ~


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WANNqr-vcx0


    All right,’ said the Cat; and this time it vanished quite slowly,
    beginning with the end of the
    tail, and ending with the grin, which remained
    some time after the rest of it had gone.
    ‘Well! I've often seen a cat without a grin,’
    thought Alice, ’but a grin without a cat! It’s the
    most curious thing I ever saw in my life!’



    We have shown that Cheshire cats have a place in
    quantum mechanics – physical properties can be
    disembodied from the objects they belong to in a pre- and
    post-selected experiment.

    http://discovermagazine.com/2010/apr...rom-the-future

    http://arxiv.org/pdf/1202.0631.pdf

    http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1206/1206.6224.pdf

    Last edited by Shadowself, 19th May 2015 at 14:38.

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