ToT My Experience

[Ria]

No Aragon I'm suggesting enough said leave it alone. The other option is to go all out have 777 here Malc, and and everone els and do a forensic analysis, if you realy want truth and fairnes. I don't think so.
Gardner said it best in her post.
Many of us here have knowen each other over some years, this is a big loss for a lot of friends. So yes it is very uncomfortable to any one of these people to be spoken badly about.

ALso your being sharp using your articulate ability as a big stick in a way that will shut people up, but dose not resolve the queston or bring them on side. I'm referring to your conversation with DNA.

[Aragorn]

No Aragon I'm suggesting enough said leave it alone.

Oh, but we will leave it alone, as soon as you and all the other plaintiffs do. This place does not need the antagonism that certain people have been creating here in the past few weeks.

The way I see it, we can never win this. Because if we shut up and close your threads -- which is completely justified as the accusations and ad hominems go in against the rules of the forum -- then you accuse of us censorship. And if we speak up, then you accuse us of something else. So which is it? Methinks that there are some people here who simply enjoy stirring up trouble, and that all of this "call for transparency" and what have you is just a smokescreen so as to keep the war going.

We didn't start this, Ria. You guys did.

The other option is to go all out have 777 here Malc, and and everone els and do a forensic analysis, if you realy want truth and fairnes. I don't think so.

Truth and fairness? Here are the facts: Malc hired Church, and 777 didn't agree with that, so he stepped down. End of story. Sad? Yes, maybe. I can see that 777 was loved by many. But it was his choice to step down. Nobody told him to, nobody even requested that he would. But he did. And so now Church and Malc are the only two administrators, and Altaira and Tonz are the supermods, and Ciauzar, Mojo and myself are the regular moderators. And I think we're doing a good job at keeping this place clean and keeping it running.

End of story.

Gardner said it best in her post.
Many of us here have knowen each other over some years, this is a big loss for a lot of friends. So yes it is very uncomfortable to any one of these people to be spoken badly about.

Oh, but it is okay then to speak badly of those who are currently running the forum? I think not.

ALso your being sharp using your articulate ability as a big stick in a way that will shut people up, but dose not resolve the queston or bring them on side. I'm referring to your conversation with DNA.

I don't see what your problem is. I have explained to everyone here what it means to be a moderator and how we moderate, based upon the fact that we have a small team. If that is not satisfactory, then I would like to know what is. And be advised that members are free to make suggestions to the moderator team -- we have a separate section of the forum for that.

[Ria]

Aragon do you always take things out of context and miss quote everything.
Gardner nor I have spoken badly. But you have and I have asked you to stop.
I will repeat I do not want ANYONE spoken badly about and yet you put out more poison again and again.

[Aragorn]

Aragon do you always take things out of context and miss quote everything.

That is a question you should be asking yourself, Ria. You're the one who fails to understand what I'm saying and who is putting words in my mouth.

Gardner nor I have spoken badly. But you have and I have asked you to stop.

I do not know who this Gardner is. I am addressing what has been said here in this thread, and I have refuted false claims, and attempted to explain what it means to be a moderator. No more, no less.

I am also not speaking bad of anyone, but that's a two-way street. Speaking bad of other forum members -- including the moderators -- is against the rules which Malc has set forth, and which he has already had to repeatedly force people to read in the last couple of weeks. And the more he did that, the more those rules were broken -- on purpose.

I will repeat I do not want ANYONE spoken badly about and yet you put out more poison again and again.

I am not putting any poison on anything, Ria, so please stop your false accusations. My words are up there for everyone to read, so if you have a problem understanding what I meant, then I suggest that you read them again. The only one I see making a drama of all of this -- no offense intended, but this is how I see it -- would be you.

This is not about ego, Ria. Neither yours, nor mine. This is about people who spread rumors and false allegations via back-channels, and about people who break the rules as many times as they are reminded of their existence, period.

We moderators have been attacked -- in a very malicious and insidious way -- and our credibility has been undermined by liars before the eyes of all members of this forum. We have been accused of censorship, of being fascists, of being a police state, of having ego, and whatever else have you. So I think that it's only fair that at least one of us opens up his mouth and explains to you all how we work, and why we do what we do.

Don't we have a right to defend ourselves? Because if we don't have that right, then who exactly is playing the role of the police here?

[Ria]

Aragon I simply do not agree with you, or your handerling of a delicate situation.
I don't understand your lack of understanding, we will simply have to agree to disagree.
Gardner is a forum member on a forum you are moderating.

[Aragorn]

Aragon I simply do not agree with you, or your handerling of a delicate situation.

There is no "delicate situation" which would have been mishandled by me, Ria. You are trying to steer this debate onto the subject of Ben/777 in order to feed your sense of drama, but this is not, and has never been about Ben.

This here is about the false allegations of censorship and dictatorship that have been circulating in the back-channels, and some of those allegations did indeed come from Ben, but he is not the only one who has been spreading these false rumors, and this also not about who started these rumors or whoever was involved with that and to what degree. It's about the rumors themselves, and those rumors are what I have been dispelling higher up.

Look, for the last time -- and read this very carefully, please -- this is not about Ben, okay? If you want to feel sad that Ben has left, then fine, that is your prerogative -- I don't know Ben, and maybe if I did I would feel sad too -- but let me remind you that to the best of my knowledge, Ben is still a member here, and so he can still post here, read threads, et al. He has only resigned as an administrator, but he has not left the forum yet. So if you care about him as a person and you enjoy his company, then do so, and enjoy him while he's still here, instead of trying to pour more fuel onto the fire, which in the end might drive him away altogether. And then what?

I don't understand your lack of understanding, we will simply have to agree to disagree.

Yes, well, I for one don't understand your lack of understanding either. I couldn't have been more clear than I have already been, and yet you are desperately trying to turn this into something it is not. I am not going to be playing that game with you, Ria. I have had enough of this debating in circles and these attempts to steer the debate into a direction which only suits the drama and which has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

What needed to be said has been said, so I am closing this thread.