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Thread: What is - Free will?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Catsquotl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by lookbeyond View Post
    Hi everyone, it seems like most of us here have pretty comfortable lives for eg we are probably not existing in slums of a third world country struggling every day to just stay alive...so my concern/question is..what of these peoples free will, do they have really any "power" to change their familys plight or are they "trapped" by their circumstances or is it, dare i say "karma" .

    Speaking of karma, does it exist if free will does?, lb
    Free will in my view does not equate to the power to change your life's circumstances. It dies mean the power to choose or even not to choose. In my view free will is more the way you are free to respond to life however you like. Life is happening regardless.

    Karma in the basic sense is no more than the "law" of cause and effect. Never in my view was it meant to be the punishment or reward tool that spans lifetimes.
    Its simpler than that. You know what makes you temporarily happy. so you do more of it to be happier. simple cause and effect.

    With Love
    Eelco
    Have a great day today

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  3. #32
    Retired Member Nepal
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    What comes first
    Consciousness or will?

    Can there be will without consciousness?
    The will of gravity?

    In a way, that could be considered possible. If our perceived universe and all the component therein would be an extension and expression of the so called "one consciousness".
    In that scenario you could say that gravity has a will.
    Is the will of gravity in that case a will without a decision node?
    Meaning there is no choice involved?
    The will to attract.
    On the other hand, there could still be a decision made, the will to attract and not repel.

    Does consciousness by default also have a will.
    Could there be consciousness out there that does not have a will?
    Is that even possible?

    I don't know and I don't even dare to suggest so.
    I guess we entering an area that can not be named here.

    So consciousness first?... that creates a will within and without....the will to be... so maybe will is like a life force?
    The wish to see something come into creation or be manifest in one way or another. Without it we would not be.

    But doesn't the above also mean that in order for will to come into existence there must have been a "decision" made by that consciousness,
    meaning there were already a will to create a will.

    I would say consciousness and will came into existence simultaneously, with no one following the other.
    They are interconnected and interdependent.
    Like Yin and Yang, darkness nourish light and light nourish darkness.
    They transform each other and give birth to everything.

    To put free into the equation makes it difficult and maybe just blur the vision.

    To have a will, in my point of view, it must necessarily be "free" in whatever direction it takes or in whatever situation.
    (similar to what 777 mentioned earlier in this thread)

    ----

    So when I see statements like "Aliens are welcome as long as they respect our free will".
    I think the person who wrote the sentence might mean something different than each and every one that agrees to it.

    The meaning of free will is more or less contextual, as I see it.
    It is like an elevator, for every floor the explanation has a different meaning and layout.

    Some might see free will as a behavioral freedom, freedom to go left or right or paint the house when they wish to... but maybe not kill the neighbour.
    Others might argue from a freedom of thought perspective; "Don't try to indoctrinate me or in any other way influence my thought process".
    Some might think about ideologies, values, beliefs and faith; "Don't try to push me in any direction, this is my stand and I would like to keep it".
    Yet others see it as an emotional freedom; "I have the right to feel whatever I like".
    Then we also have cultural values, social environment and genetics that may influence our view.
    All of the above are in the same time intertwined and entangled with eachother.

    "Free will" to me is a very complex and complicated matter, yet we all seems to easily agree when someone refers to "Free will",
    as we all immediately knew what they meant.

    Maybe its innermost meaning is all about intuition, emotion and feelings after all.

    So, I will stick to my first statement: _____________________________________

    but without "free" accompanying it or as a pretext


    ... for now....
    Last edited by InCiDeR, 18th April 2015 at 18:53. Reason: clarifying

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  5. #33
    Senior Member Catsquotl's Avatar
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    I think consciousness and will arise together. At this stage the one cannot exist without the other.
    Will here is volition or intent. The intent and the knowing of it are distinguishable but nor separable. Like a blue circle. It has both a color and a vorm. both aspect distinguishable bit not separable..

    Even though there is intention or volition and the knowing of it. does not mean one comes first and then the other. they appear together and eventually will disappear together.
    If consciousness is that aspect that says there is volition within me. when the will is gone another consciousness arises that says there is no (longer) volition within me.

    Taking the consciousness as memory the quality becomes there is another volition within me.

    I see those as 3 distinct experiences without a continuous consciousness, but a consciousness that arises and passes based on conditions.

    With Love
    Eelco
    Have a great day today

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  7. #34
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    Quote Originally posted by Eelco View Post
    I think consciousness and will arise together. At this stage the one cannot exist without the other.
    Will here is volition or intent. The intent and the knowing of it are distinguishable but nor separable. Like a blue circle. It has both a color and a vorm. both aspect distinguishable bit not separable..

    Even though there is intention or volition and the knowing of it. does not mean one comes first and then the other. they appear together and eventually will disappear together.
    If consciousness is that aspect that says there is volition within me. when the will is gone another consciousness arises that says there is no (longer) volition within me.

    Taking the consciousness as memory the quality becomes there is another volition within me.

    I see those as 3 distinct experiences without a continuous consciousness, but a consciousness that arises and passes based on conditions.

    With Love
    Eelco
    Thank you Eelco for sharing your insights. It seems like we came to similar conclusions, but wording them differently. Like using same language but with different accent and local words.

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    Quote Originally posted by lookbeyond View Post
    ...so my concern/question is..what of these peoples free will, do they have really any "power" to change their familys plight or are they "trapped" by their circumstances or is it, dare i say "karma" .

    Speaking of karma, does it exist if free will does?, lb
    Your power and every living beings power is related to Free Will. It is because of Free Will we have the power to change any situation although the change may not happen as quickly as we like, on the other hand it took time for us to create the situation we are in at this very moment as well.

    It is probably helpful to widen the perspective a bit.

    You would agree that understanding the plot of a two hour motion picture (running at 30 frames per second) by analysing one frame (our present life) would be impossible. Similarly when we see a living entity in a specific circumstance we see a frame of their movie, which could be very hard to understand, point is we are all the directors of our movies and Free Will allows us to develop our stories as we choose.

    Karma and Free Will is often debated, karma is more the rules that dictate the environment (the Matrix, if you will) that has been created by Source for us to experience separateness from Source. Our Free Will created the Matrix but there are certain limits in how we can interact with it due to the level of vibration that we have chosen to put ourself in (i.e. an ego-vibration or low a vibration)

    Complete freedom from any restriction and complete direct experience of Free Will can only be experienced when we have once again, by using Free Will, come back to the pure vibration of energy that is natural to the soul (to us). Some say that is a state of unconditional love, some say it's experiencing the Oneness of everything etc. But most agree it's a state that is completely free from ego-motives.

    We can also turn the logic around and argue that people don't suffer because of the actions and results of their Free Will, then who put them in a state of suffering? An evil Source? Chance? (or there is no higher purpose of anything) This makes things very much harder to understand and most often lead to a mechanistic world view.

    To conclude: yes, karma and Free Will goes well together.

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  10. #36
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    Quote Originally posted by InCiDeR View Post
    I would say consciousness and will came into existence simultaneously, with no one following the other.
    They are interconnected and interdependent.
    I share that view, although I don't think there was a time they "came into existence", I think they are eternal. Eternally Us.

    Quote Originally posted by InCiDeR View Post
    So when I see statements like "Aliens are welcome as long as they respect our free will". I think the person who wrote the sentence might mean something different than each and every one that agrees to it.
    I agree again, this is relating to real (or imaginary) laws within the Matrix. Some profess there is a Galactic or Universal law that "Free Will" may not be interfered with. Although that law seems to be broken constantly. (according to others)

    But yes, there is a huge difference when we speak of Free Will on a soul-level and Free Will as a conditioned ego-being.

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  12. #37
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    Wondering about Free Will tonight myself. Does it really exist here, NOW? I cannot write as eloquently as you all have here before me. I am not a philosopher. I am a mom raising kids.

    Definition: Free: not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.
    Free Will: the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.

    By these definitions, who has free will here on planet Earth, in America, in North Carolina? I don't yet. Not really. Not when I take the magnifying glass to my life.

    Perhaps I am a coward, but I still take a paycheck, pay taxes, put gas in my car, buy the cheaper non organic veggies, etc. I do all of these, all the while reading everything I can get my hands on trying to understand why all of those magnificent free beings out there in the multiverse seem to be waiting for us to do something. As if we had the free will and they didn't?



    Wish I knew what they were waiting for.

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  14. #38
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    As long as we reside on this prison planet, The only will we have is what we get spoonfed by the media..
    Main stream and Alternative alike.

    What we think of as our thoughts and our decisions is based on our upbringing and experiences in life.
    Nothing free about that.

    J.

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    I don't usually recommend channeled material but this is a very good book on the subject:

    http://rightuseofwill.com/

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    The book, Right Use of Will is very well composed. There are others that followed but, they did not have the "essence" of the original. I found the same thing with the "Conversations With God" trilogy. First one was brilliant, following two were forced out by the author. Something to do with publishing contracts.

    Spirit will guide people to write specific books, sometimes only one comes through clean. First one "happens", others become contract obligations.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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  20. #41
    tinihanga
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    Quote Originally posted by ERK View Post
    I don't usually recommend channeled material but this is a very good book on the subject:

    http://rightuseofwill.com/
    I am very careful with so called channeled material.
    Can you say something more about it in terms of channeler and channeled entity before I dive in?

    Thank you.

    J.

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  22. #42
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    Quote Originally posted by ERK View Post
    I don't usually recommend channeled material but this is a very good book on the subject:

    http://rightuseofwill.com/

    The first two books in the series ("Right Use Of Will" and "Original Cause, The Unseen Role of Denial") are for me, two of the most deeply insightful books I have ever read. They are a must read IMHO.

    First, an important question, what is the "will"?


    Here is a quote from the book, Right Use Of Will (page ii)

    The Will has long been misunderstood because the Spirit was seen to be the essence of the Body, but the understanding is this: the Spirit inspires, the Will responds to inspiration, and together they experience in the Body. Body is the manifestation of Both Spirit and Will. The Spirit, in fact, has only polarized itself in order to experience. The Will is the magnetic polarity of the 'Spirit.

    The splits in consciousness that have taken place on Earth have created a situation where the Will is felt to be disconnected from, and not even a useful part of the Spirit. However, Will and Spirit are the expanding limits of a connected whole. Polarities need to be realized as evolving extensions of the same thing.

    The Creation exists because it has both the Spiritual Essence which powers it and the Magnetic Polarity which opens the space to receive it. The same is true within each individual. The Spirit and the Will are not meant to be separate from each other in any individual any more than the Spiritual Essence of God is meant to be separate from His Divine Will. Each Will is connected to the Divine Will, and each Spirit is connected to the Divine Spiritual Essence; and so, everything is one.....
    Last edited by DeeZe, 14th May 2015 at 17:25. Reason: spelling

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