What is consciousness

[Aragorn]

I made it up myself, or actually my Guardian Angle did, she has a black belt in Tai Ming, if I may believe her - and why not?

Would that be a 90° angle, or a 45° angle?

[InCiDeR]

Alright, I give it another go.

I struggle to explain my thought process regarding this matter even when using my mother tongue, so please bear with me. I hope this will make sense to anyone.

I apologize if similar thoughts already have been presented, I am not up to date with all posts in this thread yet.

Here we go...

Oneness in a perspective from a confused thought cloud and a fractal mind:


---

When you observe another person, where do you really see him or her?

In front of you, standing in an external world, representing a "real" solid object in an outside world,

or as a mental representation within your mind?

I would say as a mental representation, an image within you, created by you using your brain as a tool.


If you didn't have any inputs of sensoric information from your senses to your brain, would there still be an image of an outside world (i.e mental representation) within your mind?

Could there still be a universe outside yourself that exists independently, without you observing it and none of your senses interacting with it?

To my current knowledge and understanding, both questions are impossible to answer with certainty from a viewpoint within this existing realm and perceived reality.


But what about all observers that are already dead? The world we live in now didn't cease to exist when they died and stopped interacting with it, neither did their local surrounding vanish in their death moment.

Wouldn't that be an indication that an outside world could exist independently without anyone observing it and interacting with it?

Not necessarily.

There are still observers alive who are interacting with that outside world.

So how many observers does it take to keep the outside world "alive", "real" and manifest?


One...

maybe?


Likewise, If you do have inputs of sensoric information from your senses to your brain,

everything you observe and interact with, are in my view just mental representations of those objects within your mind.

So all people (other observers) you observe will also be mental representations within your mind.

In a way, they are you,

because your brain "produce" the necessary components to create these mental representations of other people in your mind.


In conclusion, it seems to take one observer of the external world to keep that world "alive", "real" and manifest,

and one observer of the internal world to keep the mental representations "alive", "real" and manifest.



As without, so within.

I am the one that are us.


I used to have Multiple Personality Disorder, but we are ok now.

---

[Cup]

Where did this terminology originally come from -- 'Service to Self' and 'Service to Others'? It does seem rather 'black and white', doesn't it? Lately, it's been making me feel very uncomfortable. I used to 'buy' it, but I find the way it's crept into our conversation 'as if it is so' quite disturbing.

All of us do things for ourselves AND for others. It's just a matter of degree. I will always be of service to myself. There are things I must do for myself on a regular basis -- like bathe.

But, seriously. Anything delineated as 'black and white' strikes me as a con job. It's the 'us vs them' mentality.

Yes, agree. It's "new age" lingo but it does describe the basic dichotomy in the matrix between acting in ego and unselfish love. I guess the gray scales are implied, as you point out it's almost always a mix.

By all means!

Btw, if you don't mind my asking, is your cup empty, full, half empty, or half full? Or, as far as those choices are concerned, simultaneously all and none from a non-linear perspective?

My cup is always full, at the same time there is always room for more Always looking for new stuff to pour in

If you don't 'serve yourself' and prosper, how can you ever serve others?

For most people serving others is an excuse for not facing/taking care of their own problems first.

Very important, I like that.

Numbers are not always what they appear to be

You fascinate me, did I say that before?

Getting back to, 'Oneness', that just comes across so.... dogmatic to me, I can't even tell yah. Labeling the feeling of 'connectedness' as 'Oneness' opens up the door to losing oneself in this so-called 'Oneness'. And, I'm not for that. In fact, my entire being screams to remain sovereign 'till the end of time... if you see what I mean. I've no intention of being... absorbed... back into this 'Oneness' from which I supposedly tore myself away (if I did, who freakin' knows) and lose everything that makes me 'I'. Btw, my sense of 'self' is different from my sense of 'ego'.

There is a philosophical school in India that stresses the notion of "Oneness and Difference". I admit I resonate with that. I'm connected with everything and everyone at the same time I'm an unique individual.

Btw, my sense of 'self' is different from my sense of 'ego'.

Indeed. Ego is something interesting as well. We have ego related to this body suit, I'm dog, I'm cat, I'm human, I'm Blue Avian (if they exist) I'm beautiful, I'm ugly, I'm hungry etc and then we have ego related to Soul. I am Me, I am Presence, I am Mighty, I am Self, I am Eternal, I am Love, I am (part of) Source etc.

I'd say this is debatable.

I think it's probably true that you cannot control your initial thoughts/feelings. You can control your reaction to those thoughts/feelings. And, when you control your reaction to those thoughts/feelings, you control the intensity/course of the thoughts/feelings to a great degree. At least, I know, I can.

I'm with you Pris (again)

The initial purpose of all types of (orthodox, old school) yoga is to master the mind. To control it. There are many ways to do so, through breathing, through yoga postures, though mantra meditation, or a combination of them.

When that initial stage (for most of us extremely difficult) is mastered then the focus and attention can be directed to Source.

Are we talking about this within the confines of linear time? Non-linear time? Circular time? No time

We could for the sake of discussion relate this to what we talked about earlier about Ego relating to our body suit. On the body suit level we have free will but as Omniverse points out that is always subject to external conditioning, influences and manipulation. That would relate to the confines of linear time.

We also have free will related to the "real" Ego, that of You and Me. In one sense the confines of non-linear or no-time dimensions. The effects and manifestations of free will relating to the body ego are often quite immediate but the effects of exercising free will on the "real" Us level are in general not that immediate. That free will deals with the major course we are taking in our journey through time and space and plays out on a different time scale as it were.

Something akin to turning a super tanker. The super tanker may take a very long time to react to a command of the captain due to the inherent forces that are in play. But eventually it will change course.

If everything that ever was and will ever be is already 'written', what's so 'free' about any of this?

I may know beforehand that I will find you smiling under that tree, happily swinging back and forth in the sunshine. It doesn't mean you didn't go there by free will.

[InCiDeR]

(...) If everything that ever was and will ever be is already 'written', what's so 'free' about any of this?(...)

In one way everything is already written. If you take π (pi). Being an irrational number, π cannot be expressed exactly as a common fraction, although fractions such as 22/7 and other rational numbers are commonly used to approximate π. Consequently its decimal representation never ends and never settles into a permanent repeating pattern. The digits appear to be randomly distributed; however, to date, no proof of this has been discovered.

If the above is true, and you replace the digits with letters. Everything that has been "written", "written" at the moment or will be "written" already exists within π (pi). Somewhere along the infinite numbers of digits, there will be a sequence that correspond to the bible, my thoughts right now or even tomorrow's newspaper...

or... ?!


wonder if π (pi) has a free will

[Outlander]

Very important, I like that.

Thank you Cup!

[InCiDeR]

Would that be a 90° angle, or a 45° angle?

We have to be careful, though, not to consider these things from one angle alone...

[Church]

Threads have been merged, contiguous posts have been merged, and off topic chatter has been removed.

[Dreamtimer]

I went back to the OP. "...everything we can be aware of..." Makes me think of the phrase, "Know Thyself". How well do we know ourselves? How self-aware are we? Many don't like to look too hard in the mirror.

Emotions have such a strong effect on consciousness. They can gravely cloud or greatly increase it.

We are connected to others' consciousnesses. Some of those others are aware, some aren't. Consciousness is an individual and a group state.

I'm expanding my awareness with my dream work. Consciousness is dreams is very different than in physical waking life (for me).

It seems there's a threshold where we move from conscious to super-conscious.

It takes a certain kind of awareness to be conscientious.

[Catsquotl]

Hi Dreamtimer,

Would you like to expand on the difference between your waking and dream consciousness?
You say they are very different. If so I'd like to find out where they differ. In my current understanding of consciousness. I have the idea that that which is consciousness behaves the same.

I don't remember my dreams very well, but if I do I am always amazed that they feel as real as day to day life even though the events are waaaay different.

With Love
Eelco

[Dreamtimer]

Eelco, It's more like two different aspects of consciousness.

In waking life I'm instinctive. My judgement has many parts: logic and analysis, experience, emotion, knowledge, instincts, and more. My instincts are crucial and can be a trump card that sends me in a different direction from the others.

In dreams my consciousness is primarily instinctive. Logic and analysis don't fit well into the fluid dreamscape.

So, in waking life my instincts may tell me to do something and I don't really understand but I trust them even if I feel a little trepidation. The logical mind is strong so I have to not let it dominate.

In dreams, I go forward in a way that I know exactly where I'm going/or what I'm doing even though I have no idea why or what's going to happen. I don't even worry about it because I know I have to go that way.

In dreams things often don't make sense because stuff hasn't happened yet. In waking life I sometimes have to be patient for a really long time before I can understand a dream. My conscious mind doesn't see forward the way my dreaming mind does.

You may find it interesting that as part of my efforts to recall dreams better I'm working on bringing my dream mind and waking mind closer together.

[Catsquotl]

I see...

As we are exploring consciousness I am going to do some nitpicking.
In you waking state you say your consciousness concists of:
Instinct, Logic, analysis, experience, emotion, knowledge and an undefined more..

In your dreamstate it's just instinct, maybe more, but definetely not logic and analysis.

Also in dreamstate there is an inate knowing of doing what has to be done.
In waking you trust you are doing what needs to be done, but you have more worries about that.

If i have understood your post correctly I'd say that even though we use the "everything we can be aware of" The trust on your instinct you describe doesn't fit that definition. As you do what your instincts tell you to do, but you are not sure of how and why. especially in you waking state. where in dreams you don't care why it just feels right.

Just some random nitpicks and thoughts...
With Love
Eelco

[Catsquotl]

I was thinking about it, and i Think i'm ready to adjust my defenition of consciousness.
"Consciousness is everything we can are aware of as it happens".

That way we can differentiate between what is happening now in our experiental reality and what is happening in the mind as thoughts, memories, expectations etc.
Thinking about an idea for instance means we can be consciouss of the fact that we are thinking, because that's what is happening, but let the content of these thoughts for what they are.

Dwelling on past events are known consciously as thingking about the past.
Intentions can be known then as thinking about the future.

Dreams depending on whether they are lucid or not either as memories, thinking about the past. or experiental direct knowing of the dreamstate.
With Love
Eelco

[Dreamtimer]

Eelco,

I didn't say so, but I know that my instincts are heavily influenced by my dreams. Following my instincts is nearly the same thing as following my dreams. I don't recall them all, but they are present in my instincts. Often, I'll recall a dream later, after an event. I recognized the event though I didn't specifically recall the dream. Deja vu is directly connected to this.

As my dreaming and waking mind come together, my awareness will be more specific, complete, and less instinctive. I'll act on knowledge rather than/in addition to instinct.

This means my conscious awareness develops and expands (and contracts at times).

[Sebastion]

To answer the title of this thread, I will present what follows. As the Kybalion states, The All is Mind, the Universe(s) is/are Mental. Consciousness is electrical in nature and vibrates at between 7.8 and 8.4 Hz. Note that the medical field can monitor your electrical brain impulses by using an EEG machine. Note also that they use an ECG to monitor electrical impulses of the heart, proof enough to see that there is a lot of electrical activity going on in the human body. When the spirit or consciousness leaves the body, all electrical activity ceases.

Electricity within itself has many frequencies. Just like old fashioned am/fm radios had dials you could turn to pick up different frequencies for different radio stations. Conscious awareness works on that same principle. The whole secret regarding conscious awareness can be answered by looking at what it is that picks up electrical frequencies in the body. That can be answered simply-it's the neurons and neural networks primarily found in the brain/brain cavity although the body is replete with these neural networks, etc. Above the head and surrounding it is what is referred to as the crown chakra/nimbus. It is a great light within itself. It is the neural networks, neurons primarily within the brain cavity which picks up information at different frequencies within the nimbus. Food for higher thought.

Addressing the thread title directly, one cannot know what consciousness is as a whole. Mind cannot be used to seek something from mind because mind cannot grasp mind. If you think you can understand what Universal Mind, consciousness is, by using mind in an attempt to grasp the whole, all I can say is good luck with that because that is impossible. Let it be known that mind cannot be used to seek something from mind but the spirit can be used to seek spirit. You are first and foremost a spirit being after all and to ignore that aspect is highly detrimental to yourself.

[Catsquotl]

So does consciousness exist outside our awareness?
If we are tuned to a specific frequency of consciousness, are we then conscious of only that frequency?

By what definition does the whole of consciousness go, and what should we call that what we as individuals van become conscious of.

taken that consciousness is One. are we then part conscious. can we become fully conscious. If so how.
Is it possible from within a 3d body.

Obviously some say it can, at the same time the early enlightened ones did make a distinction between various functions and modes of consciousness.

With Love
Eelco