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Thread: What is consciousness

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally posted by Pris View Post
    Where did this terminology originally come from -- 'Service to Self' and 'Service to Others'? It does seem rather 'black and white', doesn't it? Lately, it's been making me feel very uncomfortable. I used to 'buy' it, but I find the way it's crept into our conversation 'as if it is so' quite disturbing.

    All of us do things for ourselves AND for others. It's just a matter of degree. I will always be of service to myself. There are things I must do for myself on a regular basis -- like bathe.

    But, seriously. Anything delineated as 'black and white' strikes me as a con job. It's the 'us vs them' mentality.
    As far as I am aware it originated from the Law of One material, Pris (that's where I first came across it) & I agree with you that on the surface the 2 terms do seem black & white however in the context of the Law of One material it was used to differentiate between the polarity in consciouness.

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  3. #92
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    Quote Originally posted by Outlander View Post
    Actually - and seriously, there are only two kinds of people: cat people and dog people
    Ha, that's funny. I'm more of a dog person, but I still like cats (at least the nice ones)!

    When it comes to Oneness, Aragorn described it rather well. It's not about losing your individuality or uniqueness, but it's about truly realizing that we are not really separate beings.

    Oneness is a state of being, a greater understanding if you will. Before we experience and live it, we tend to view the world from a dualistic viewpoint. Everything in due time...

    “What is any ocean but a multitude of drops?”
    Last edited by Wind, 20th April 2015 at 01:04.

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  5. #93
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Well, no, I think you misunderstand the concept of Oneness, or else it has not been properly explained to you -- and many people in the alternative community are actually talking about the Oneness without that they truly understand the concept.



    The Oneness is not a hive mind situation. It is merely a feeling of connectedness with all that is, so that you feel that the only explanation for this connectedness is that we are, indeed, all One. But even within that feeling, you remain your sovereign Self. There is no assimilation. In fact, that assimilation would indeed be a hive mind scenario, where one does not have sovereignty and where the concept of Self does not exist, and most likely not even the concept of love, albeit that I cannot tell that for certain. But either way, in a hive mind situation, your entire existence is nothing other than a mere limb to the collective.

    That is definitely not what the Oneness is about. The Oneness is about feeling your own love resonate in somebody else, and theirs in you.
    I can do you one better, Aragorn:

    Okay, I'm glad we're both against the 'hive mind'. Super.

    As for the other folks then, if I have this correct, the idea is to 'work your way up the ladder', become an 'enlightened master', and eventually -- whilst casting away all sense of 'self' for all eternity -- merge back with the source of this so-called 'Oneness'. In other words, it's about sacrificing oneself back into 'The Source' (that's another one, btw).

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  7. #94
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Pris View Post
    In other words, it's about sacrificing oneself back into 'The Source' (that's another one, btw).
    It takes incredible amount of time until the soul returns to the Source... From Source. Even then I don't think that you truly "lose" anything, I think that you become the Source. I could be wrong though, let's talk about it more once we have arrived there.
    Last edited by Wind, 20th April 2015 at 01:25.

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    Quote Originally posted by Pris View Post
    I can do you one better, Aragorn:

    Okay, I'm glad we're both against the 'hive mind'. Super.

    As for the other folks then, if I have this correct, the idea is to 'work your way up the ladder', become an 'enlightened master', and eventually -- whilst casting away all sense of 'self' for all eternity -- merge back with the source of this so-called 'Oneness'. In other words, it's about sacrificing oneself back into 'The Source' (that's another one, btw).
    Personally, I'm not so sure about all that "ascension" stuff, Pris. But then again, I've never been part of this "wheel of evolution" thing, and never wanted to be, because quite evidently, that means that one has to learn by making mistakes, and this is something my kind never wanted to be part of.

    I'm not sure, but I think that all of this "ascension" stuff is actually wishful thinking, and -- surprisingly -- usually a desire driven by ego. But that's just my personal take on things. I could be wrong, but my observation of the whole "ascension cheer-leading" crowd has convinced me that I'd most likely be right about that.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  11. #96
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    ...this is something my kind never wanted to be part of.
    Something 'your kind' never wanted to be part of? Wait a sec, what happened to 'Oneness', Aragorn?

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    I see a few themes emerging in this thread that I suppose people think has something to do with consciousness.
    Reincarnation by way of karma or karma effects.
    Dna as a way to describe why we have not attained full consciousness.
    Free will as exercising our right to express our consciousness.

    Even though these concepts are important in the way that many people have beliefs and idea's about them I would be mindful not to confuse these concepts with consciousness themselves. Keeping my definition of consciousness in mind. "Everything we can become aware of" Making a distinction between awareness and consciousness itself. I belief these concepts are separate from conciousness.

    First lets take karma. In the buddhist texts. Full recollection of all previous lives is a higher siddhi or power. One that is attainable through meditation.
    for a sutta reference see:

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/a...2.html#part2-d

    scroll down to:
    Passages from the Pali canon
    63 (4)

    Now in my mind. As was hinted at before by wind. The previous life may have been you, but you had a different state of mind then.
    Personally I do not belief it was me. I do belief that life has been the cause of something that still needs a result. In my mind when we are born we make up our own causes (intentions towards some goal) and as service to All we pick and choose a few of the unresolved intentions that still float around in the energyfield of earth waiting to be completed. As far as I'm able to discern such an impersonal intention has within its energetic makeup an imprint of the human being that intended this in the first place. So through that intention, to which I make an agreement to try and resolve, I can access the imprint of that human. As I can only access it by experiencing it as a memory. I am inclined to believe it was me, But as all such experiences are like any phenomena impermanent, unsatisfying and self-less. It can't be me. Even though it was the cause of some event that is playing out now.

    Consciousness only comes into play here as the knowing of the event playing out, possibly knowing the cause of the event.(some intention made by a different past human being).

    In my personal past I believed that all karmic causes can be known or investigated so that one could take conscious action to not let the bad karma's play out.
    It has been the subject of many contemplations to come to this conclusion. And so far it has held up (for me anyway) in face of questions and scrutiny.
    Another part of this is that I believed that the reptilian races which supposedly have no soul can somehow make us get a load of their "bad" karma to play out.
    Not sure about that one though...

    Dna I think can be a cause for the amount of consciousness we can have, although as arhants(fully enlightened ones) everywhere show us. It is not necessary.
    One can display all the powers(siddhi's) with training within the bodies we have now. The link with consciousness in my mind is only that access to dormant pieces of DNA may cause us to become aware and thus conscious of more of the universal bandwidths through different physical and non-physical sense-bases I do believe though that even someone with 12 strands of fully functional and switched on DNA can act like a mindless fool. Unaware of what he or she possesses.

    And then free will. The problem with free will I think is that as long as we are in a human body it is not free. Are we free for example to stop breathing. To stop caring for our bodies. denying it food and water. To me fee will is more the freedom we have to react to life's circumstances. We can chooses to become angry, we can choose to love. we can choose to act or to ignore. We can't choose to breathe under water. So free will for me has to do with choice. hey are mutually dependent as one cannot exist without the other.

    With Love
    Eelco
    Have a great day today

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    Quote Originally posted by Eelco View Post
    And then free will. The problem with free will I think is that as long as we are in a human body it is not free. Are we free for example to stop breathing. To stop caring for our bodies. denying it food and water. To me fee will is more the freedom we have to react to life's circumstances. We can chooses to become angry, we can choose to love. we can choose to act or to ignore. We can't choose to breathe under water. So free will for me has to do with choice. hey are mutually dependent as one cannot exist without the other.
    Hi Eelco,

    You just prompted me to post this...

    “The Real ‘You’ Comes and Goes”

    “You have seen that the universe is at root a magical illusion and a fabulous game, and that there is no separate ‘you’ to get something out of it, as if life were a bank to be robbed. The only real ‘you’ is the one that comes and goes, manifests and withdraws itself eternally in and as every conscious being. For ‘you’ is the universe looking at itself from billions of points of view, points that come and go so that the vision is forever new.”



    “There is a Zen poem that talks about ‘IT,’ meaning the mystical experience, satori, the realization that you are, as Jesus was, the eternal energy of the universe. The poem says, ‘You cannot catch hold of it, nor can you get rid of it. In not being able to get it, you get it. When you speak, it is silent. When you are silent, it speaks.’

    This phrase—not being able to get it, you get it—is the feeling Krishnamurti tries to convey to people when he says, ‘Why do you ask for a method? There is no method. All methods are simply gimmicks for strengthening your ego.’ How do we not ask for a method? He answers, ‘In asking that, you are still asking for a method.’

    There is no method. If you really understand what your ‘I’ is, you will see there is no method. We think this is so sad, but it is not. This is the gospel, the good news, because if you cannot achieve it, if you cannot transform yourself, that means that, the main obstacle to mystical vision has collapsed. That obstacle was you.

    What happens next? By now you are at your wit’s end, but what are you going to do—commit suicide? Suppose you just put that off for a little while, and wait and see what happens.

    You cannot control your thoughts, and you cannot control your feelings, because there is no controller. You are your thoughts and your feelings, and they are running along, running along, running along.

    Just sit and watch them. There they go. You are still breathing, aren’t you? Still growing your hair; still seeing and hearing. Are YOU doing that? Is breathing something that YOU do? Do you see? Do you organize the operations of your eyes, and know exactly how to work those rods and cones in the retina? Do you do that?

    It happens, and it is a happening. Your breathing is happening. Your thinking is happening. Your feeling is happening. Your hearing, your seeing, the clouds are happening across the sky. The sky is happening blue; the sun is happening shining. There it is: all this happening.

    May I introduce you? This is yourself. This is a vision of who you really are, and the way you really function. You function by happening, that is to say, by spontaneous occurrence.

    This is not a state of affairs that you should realize. I cannot possibly preach about it to you, because the minute you start thinking, ‘I should understand that,’ the stupid notion that ‘I’ should bring it about arises again, when there is no ‘you’ to bring it about. That is why I am not preaching. You can only preach to egos. All I can do is talk about what is.

    Once you have seen this you can return to the world of practical affairs with a new spirit. You have seen that the universe is at root a magical illusion and a fabulous game, and that there is no separate ‘you’ to get something out of it, as if life were a bank to be robbed.

    The only real ‘you’ is the one that comes and goes, manifests and withdraws itself eternally in and as every conscious being. For ‘you’ is the universe looking at itself from billions of points of view, points that come and go so that the vision is forever new.

    You do not ask what is the value, or what is the use, of this feeling. Of what use is the universe? What is the practical application of a million galaxies?”

    ~ Alan Watts

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    Quote Originally posted by Eelco View Post
    So free will for me has to do with choice.


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    Quote Originally posted by Pris View Post
    That's a very good point you bring up, Pris. A bit extreme perhaps, but it opens up a whole new avenue to the debate, namely predestination versus Free Will.

    In my own experience, Free Will is not an absolutely quantifiable thing, but rather a dynamic, graduated and subjective concept. I believe that there are different degrees of Free Will, that the extent of someone's Free Will may differ from someone else's Free Will at the same time and in the same place, and that the degree of freedom in Free Will within each individual being varies, depending on the subject and the circumstances they are finding themselves in.

    By consequence, I also feel that the same thing is true with regard to predestination.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    I wrote a blog post about about the mechanics of perception. I reposted it on TOT here:
    http://jandeane81.com/threads/6495-O...#post841918132

    A couple artworks from the blog post:



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    Quote Originally posted by Omnisense View Post
    I wrote a blog post about about the mechanics of perception. I reposted it on TOT here:
    http://jandeane81.com/threads/6495-O...#post841918132

    A couple artworks from the blog post:


    Yes, Omni, I've seen that, and your analysis is pretty good, I must say. ;-)
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    “The Real ‘You’ Comes and Goes”

    “You cannot control your thoughts, and you cannot control your feelings, because there is no controller. You are your thoughts and your feelings, and they are running along, running along, running along.”

    ~ Alan Watts

    I'd say this is debatable.

    I think it's probably true that you cannot control your initial thoughts/feelings. You can control your reaction to those thoughts/feelings. And, when you control your reaction to those thoughts/feelings, you control the intensity/course of the thoughts/feelings to a great degree. At least, I know, I can.

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  27. #104
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    Quote Originally posted by Pris View Post
    I'd say this is debatable.

    I think it's probably true that you cannot control your initial thoughts/feelings. You can control your reaction to those thoughts/feelings. And, when you control your reaction to those thoughts/feelings, you control the intensity/course of the thoughts/feelings to a great degree. At least, I know, I can.
    Right exercising your free will.
    But then you already showed where these reaction lead you didn't you.

    Or do you think there's more to free will than that.

    With Love
    Eelco

    Quote Originally posted by Pris View Post
    This image may lead one into thinking there's only 2 choices here. I think there's at least 2 more.
    not moving.
    going back.

    All choices though are reactionary to the events happening.

    with Love
    Eelco
    Have a great day today

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  29. #105
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    Quote Originally posted by Eelco View Post
    Right exercising your free will.
    But then you already showed where these reaction lead you didn't you.

    Or do you think there's more to free will than that.

    With Love
    Eelco

    I have no idea if my 'will' is 'free'. It's possible I'm just going through the motions of someone else's dream.

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