You Are Not Your Thoughts

[lcam88]

Ralph is a champ.

[Aianawa]

Yes indeed, he talks about what was being shut down in the 50's and 60's, how far ahead tptW were, lends some credibility to some whistleblower testimony over the last twenty years imo, absolutely love his talk around synchronicity, the now and how he uses it, even way back when when it was so difficult not to stand out doing so.

[lcam88]

Somehow, synchronicity seems to be innate in his being; I think it is more likely that he would be flabbergasted by displays of ineptitude in his midst, if he could care, than feel awkward about standing out. I say "if he could care" because I'm not 100% sure he even lives in the same place as everyone else.

In fact, it was upon finding a youtube video about his endeavors that lead me to finding this forum; he as at the beginning of my quests along the unconventional. As I reflect on what's happened, its clear to me evermore that what I seek cannot be seen, heard, touched tasted or smelled. It must come from within. And so here I am, exchanging these ideas with you.

Seeking is something I am unlearning to do; it seems that is the only why.

[Aianawa]

So, your seeking the state of no thought ?, or being in the now permanently as such ?.

[lcam88]

So, your seeking the state of no thought ?, or being in the now permanently as such ?.

I'm not sure "no thought" properly describes it. There is thought, always, except that it does not need to drown out what else there is too.

We are permanently in the now whether we would accept it or not. There really is nothing to seek, in that sense, either.

The only thing we can do is what we are already doing; it would even be a fallacy to suggest we even choose what we do. And yet we do. Reference frames, gyroscopic motion, but do you notice it?

Ralph seems to be in a place where he certainly does notice. It is right there in front of all of us. It seem the more you try to notice, the more it eludes, perhaps because you start focusing on what you already do notice, rather than what has yet to be noticed. Perhaps because our force of will to make something happen creates "noise".

I have the flu today, I see it as an excellent opportunity to see if the bug might help me stumble on something new. I don't get sick often, but when it does happen, I really look forward to the moments and what may emerge. Just need to let myself go and float wherever I may...

[Aianawa]

I'm not sure "no thought" properly describes it. There is thought, always, except that it does not need to drown out what else there is too.

We are permanently in the now whether we would accept it or not. There really is nothing to seek, in that sense, either.

The only thing we can do is what we are already doing; it would even be a fallacy to suggest we even choose what we do. And yet we do. Reference frames, gyroscopic motion, but do you notice it?

Ralph seems to be in a place where he certainly does notice. It is right there in front of all of us. It seem the more you try to notice, the more it eludes, perhaps because you start focusing on what you already do notice, rather than what has yet to be noticed. Perhaps because our force of will to make something happen creates "noise".

I have the flu today, I see it as an excellent opportunity to see if the bug might help me stumble on something new. I don't get sick often, but when it does happen, I really look forward to the moments and what may emerge. Just need to let myself go and float wherever I may...

Hope your well soon Icam88, Canyou imagine a place for yourself where you have no thought, none, your mind empiy ?.

[lcam88]

Hope your well soon Icam88, Canyou imagine a place for yourself where you have no thought, none, your mind empiy ?.

I'm much better today, thank you.

I can imagine, and I actually can maintain a moment as such. I'm up to the part where I am "working out" bodily rhythms like light tingling sensations I can sometimes notice on my right foot, or a warm patch on the left side of my back... There are some other things that I felt during my cold, the symptoms...

The only way I can describe it would be: it is like being dead. Time becomes less perceptible to me and the moment is evacuated of [some of] the distractions that are recalling recognizing and analyzing. In that way, it is simultaneously also like having just been born.

The interesting part of that all was that the cold put me into a mindstate where it was much easier to maintain that moment even while going through my daily routine. Driving in São Paulo traffic was not so exuberayting, I must say. It is just as bad as it is when I have thoughts about how bad it is. Needing to react to traffic movements sort of makes that exercise limited on a certain level it was something interesting to experience.

The "human effect" cannot be painted up into something it is not; the only way to fix things is to set about fixing.

[enjoy being]

I guess this subject is a little ambiguous and subtle in variations of terminologies to an extent.

On one hand I agree, on the other I don't totally subscribe.
Thoughts can be their own self. Thinking about the weather, or the stars. Or whatever. The radio transmitter and receiver that is a human mind (in this context), can run the tune of having thoughts which are not original. Like playing a song that others have sung. As our device plays or records the thoughts, the reception/perception of the recorder/receiver can perhaps alter or distort the thought into the context of the self. The mind seems to retain artifacts of thoughts, memories. They can become also distorted or crystalised into the receiver transmitter circuitry.
My take on this topic in this area of it, is that the tuning of this transmitter/receiver is the site in which the "No thought" concept dwells. The interference of our artifacts trying to retune/edit the information coming into the receiver, into a key which the human wants to maintain their idea of harmony.
This is the concept I feel is being spoken of, the awareness of this dynamic, and the ability to understand/identify the effects and realities outside of the loop.
Our editing of thoughts, the style of living intuitively. Some will dissmiss thoughts which were part of their learning and/or a prompt to follow.. because they 'decide' it was a menial unimportant thought, or it was a horrible unentertainable thought. I think this is what we are talking of.

As an artist, I deal with conscious and subconscious thoughts and inspirations a lot. I have understanding in this abstract way, of how 'over thinking' is not conducive to productivity. The 'zone', being in the zone. Sports people, orators, musicians, artists. Well everyone really, when they are in their element. Automatic writing. This is the zone of no thought. It is not, thoughtlessness. When in this zone, time can zip by, the focus during that period has thought and analysis, but the ability to become passive and neutral as the conductor of the orchestra allows for the process one is in to be more fluid and natural. Many times I have snapped out of my zone, a form of hypnosis perhaps, and once my analysis and conscious thinking kicks in to "see what I have made", I am blown away, and feel the need to credit the jewel like nature of the product made, to not just myself, but some form of fluid consciousness that worked through me.
As is the wisdom of dreams. The subconscious/unconscious patterns which the mind plays back and makes inter-relationships between which seem far wiser than one can correlate while 'awake'. For instance, being in a dream in which 50 people from your life are all there, and they are all different people who don't necessarily know each other, but the mind has identified them as all being the same in the way of them all having similar relationships to your waking self. Similarities in dynamics you have with those people. Something which, when this happened to me, I was flawed by how in my waking moments, I would never have drawn these parallels, and this would because of the barrier of interference and distortion which I describe in the above sections.
I still however, would say I am not my thoughts. I am a product of thought and an expression of those thoughts.

[Aianawa]

I'm much better today, thank you.

I can imagine, and I actually can maintain a moment as such. I'm up to the part where I am "working out" bodily rhythms like light tingling sensations I can sometimes notice on my right foot, or a warm patch on the left side of my back... There are some other things that I felt during my cold, the symptoms...

The only way I can describe it would be: it is like being dead. Time becomes less perceptible to me and the moment is evacuated of [some of] the distractions that are recalling recognizing and analyzing. In that way, it is simultaneously also like having just been born.

The interesting part of that all was that the cold put me into a mindstate where it was much easier to maintain that moment even while going through my daily routine. Driving in São Paulo traffic was not so exuberayting, I must say. It is just as bad as it is when I have thoughts about how bad it is. Needing to react to traffic movements sort of makes that exercise limited on a certain level it was something interesting to experience.

The "human effect" cannot be painted up into something it is not; the only way to fix things is to set about fixing.

I like to say, it is What Is, being realized.

[Aianawa]

I guess this subject is a little ambiguous and subtle in variations of terminologies to an extent.

On one hand I agree, on the other I don't totally subscribe.
Thoughts can be their own self. Thinking about the weather, or the stars. Or whatever. The radio transmitter and receiver that is a human mind (in this context), can run the tune of having thoughts which are not original. Like playing a song that others have sung. As our device plays or records the thoughts, the reception/perception of the recorder/receiver can perhaps alter or distort the thought into the context of the self. The mind seems to retain artifacts of thoughts, memories. They can become also distorted or crystalised into the receiver transmitter circuitry.
My take on this topic in this area of it, is that the tuning of this transmitter/receiver is the site in which the "No thought" concept dwells. The interference of our artifacts trying to retune/edit the information coming into the receiver, into a key which the human wants to maintain their idea of harmony.
This is the concept I feel is being spoken of, the awareness of this dynamic, and the ability to understand/identify the effects and realities outside of the loop.
Our editing of thoughts, the style of living intuitively. Some will dissmiss thoughts which were part of their learning and/or a prompt to follow.. because they 'decide' it was a menial unimportant thought, or it was a horrible unentertainable thought. I think this is what we are talking of.

As an artist, I deal with conscious and subconscious thoughts and inspirations a lot. I have understanding in this abstract way, of how 'over thinking' is not conducive to productivity. The 'zone', being in the zone. Sports people, orators, musicians, artists. Well everyone really, when they are in their element. Automatic writing. This is the zone of no thought. It is not, thoughtlessness. When in this zone, time can zip by, the focus during that period has thought and analysis, but the ability to become passive and neutral as the conductor of the orchestra allows for the process one is in to be more fluid and natural. Many times I have snapped out of my zone, a form of hypnosis perhaps, and once my analysis and conscious thinking kicks in to "see what I have made", I am blown away, and feel the need to credit the jewel like nature of the product made, to not just myself, but some form of fluid consciousness that worked through me.
As is the wisdom of dreams. The subconscious/unconscious patterns which the mind plays back and makes inter-relationships between which seem far wiser than one can correlate while 'awake'. For instance, being in a dream in which 50 people from your life are all there, and they are all different people who don't necessarily know each other, but the mind has identified them as all being the same in the way of them all having similar relationships to your waking self. Similarities in dynamics you have with those people. Something which, when this happened to me, I was flawed by how in my waking moments, I would never have drawn these parallels, and this would because of the barrier of interference and distortion which I describe in the above sections.
I still however, would say I am not my thoughts. I am a product of thought and an expression of those thoughts.

Thank you nothing, exceptional post, your artistic take interesting also.
Receiver transmitter being chakras and or clear balanced mind ?

[scibuster]

I've not read these long thread in total.

Yes I'm not only in my thoughts:
(I'm also in my guts.)

In 1982 I lost my thoughts and most of my memory for a duration of 14 days.
no thoughts = Gedankensperre
Included in an extreme sleep disorder (no sleep at all for 14-days).

It was a horror and joy simultaniously.

[lcam88]

Thoughts can be their own self. Thinking about the weather, or the stars. Or whatever. The radio transmitter and receiver that is a human mind (in this context), can run the tune of having thoughts which are not original. Like playing a song that others have sung. As our device plays or records the thoughts, the reception/perception of the recorder/receiver can perhaps alter or distort the thought into the context of the self. The mind seems to retain artifacts of thoughts, memories. They can become also distorted or crystalised into the receiver transmitter circuitry.

I am reminded of "Ambassador Kosh" from the B5 TV show relating to thoughts as a song.

I was always particularly curious about dialog like:

Telepath: "But, I don't understand!"

Kosh: "Because, you are listening to the song, and not hearing the music"

FYI, that might not be exact dialog, at least it is paraphrased...

CORRECTION I found the exact dialog:

In the Deathwalker episode:

Talia Winters: All the clearances seem to be in order, and the pay is very generous. However, there's something I still don't understand.
Kosh: Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Kosh: Ahh. You seek meaning.
Talia: Yes.
Kosh: Then listen to the music, not the song.

[Aianawa]

Have huge respect for Mr Tolle and felt to put some of his words here about the mind/thoughts >

http://spiritlibrary.com/eckhart-tol...-not-your-mind

[Aianawa]

I am reminded of "Ambassador Kosh" from the B5 TV show relating to thoughts as a song.

I was always particularly curious about dialog like:

Telepath: "But, I don't understand!"

Kosh: "Because, you are listening to the song, and not hearing the music"

FYI, that might not be exact dialog, at least it is paraphrased...

I may be incorrect, is they then saying, the song is what he is receiving and the music is the song of silence/void/no mind.

[lcam88]

I really don't know for sure, Aianawa. Its a curious analogy for sure.

Funny thing too is, if you switch the words song and music as in : "Because you are listening to the music, and not hearing the song." It is just as enigmatic. It doesn't mean anything significantly different.