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Thread: Truth Is Often Spoken Of

  1. #61
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    If you want my advice, stay as far away from cryptocurrencies as you can, Vern. It's a very treacherous bubble, intended to take the control of money out of the hands of the banks — which has failed, because banks are now also speculating in that market — and put it in the hands of the tech industry and the organized crime groups. It's a bubble, it's covered by nothing tangible, it stimulates greed, and it's going to burst sooner or later.



    I don't like fighting, Vern, and I also don't like having to repeat myself over and over. I had the feeling — and the other staff members as well — that there was just no getting through to you.

    And by the way, I don't like politics either. I've seen it from the inside, and to me, it's all just a vile game, and whoever wins, we're the ones who end up screwed anyway. That's one of the reasons why you won't see me looking at political threads very often.
    We TOTally agree on crypto then unless a backing of physical gold silver or commodities etc and many of us watched as the main original cripto players got incorparated, pushed or suicided, as i am sure all the different coloured hats did too, watching Russia with it's allies peg their currentcy to gold was classic and well organised imo years before, most rising and stable currentcy atm in this crazy world, even with sanctions.
    Usualllly i am defending myself not fighting, a difference imo, we are humans and why you and other staff members would need to get their truth through to me defaults the forum imo but i am prepared to do my best to get along while we all go through great changes, our minds, included. So a profound sorry for being incorrect in my thoughts and shares now and in the past and i accept yours also, such is our fast changing world today.
    Politics is ugly and needs huge systemic change world wide and this will happen, is happening atm.

    Is rare for me to get angry or triggered when my truth is abused because it caused hurt to another whom was triggered, why does someone get triggered by another truth not theirs ?, to give an eggysample Aragorn, my dad got the vaxx based on his doctors advice ( heart probs known and he is dying, few years left all going well ) promptly had a heart attack-s and into emergency then up to CHCH emergency, absolute refusel to connect the two, all good as is dads choice, couple moons ago gets another as it will help him and he needs to do as government says though doctor not saying much this time, boom brain bleed and emergency room again, he must have hit his head he keeps repeating, must have been a bad concussion he says ( mum has clicked though now though still backs dad completly, all good, their choice.
    We will talk and love each other till death, same with you dear Frank, same with you.

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  3. #62
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    The truth is not vulnerable but can feel so.

    Science once said their is only infinate truths.

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  5. #63
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    "Science once said..." That's a funny phrase. Science is not an entity which speaks. Scientists will regularly say that nothing is 'settled'. Because there is always more to discover and understand. A theory may be well founded and it's still a theory which undergoes continual development.

    Much like people. (hopefully) They grow and develop throughout life. (again, hopefully)

    Do you own a truth, Vern? Is that why it's 'yours'? I've believed many things sincerely and deeply. That doesn't make them absolute. I could have been wrong or misunderstood. These things happen which is why dialogue and understanding are so important.

    If a person just thinks they have 'their truth' they could end up being sorely mis- or uninformed. I've seen that occur more than once.

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    Senior Member Catsquotl's Avatar
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    Now I am confused.
    Doesn't science say that there is no truth, Well none that can scientifically be proven?

    There are only hypotheses that haven't been disproven yet?
    Have a great day today

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  9. #65
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Catsquotl View Post
    Now I am confused.
    Doesn't science say that there is no truth, Well none that can scientifically be proven?

    There are only hypotheses that haven't been disproven yet?
    No. There are things that have proven to be true, and of which we know that they are true because we can (and do) rely on them 100% every single day. But at the same time, there are also hypotheses, some of which are believed to be true because there is no evidence to the contrary, even though there is also no absolute evidence to corroborate the hypotheses — this is the realm of axioms. And then there are yet other hypotheses of which it is unknown whether they are true or false, but which exist nevertheless because they can be spelled out as mathematical formulas that work with other mathematical formulas.

    So there's a bit of everything in science, but there is definitely a given amount of established truth among that, and scientists will never deny this.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Senior Member Chuckie's Avatar
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    logic can easily construct a 'true' statement or a 'false' statement, it's axiomatic, but then there must be a buy-in to consensus reality. By far, not axiomatic in the quantum age. That truth makes me laugh with maniacal glee.
    “To seek self-knowledge is to embark on a journey which ... will always be incomplete" - courtesy of Godel's Incompleteness Theorem

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  13. #67
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    "Science once said..." That's a funny phrase. Science is not an entity which speaks. Scientists will regularly say that nothing is 'settled'. Because there is always more to discover and understand. A theory may be well founded and it's still a theory which undergoes continual development.

    Much like people. (hopefully) They grow and develop throughout life. (again, hopefully)

    Do you own a truth, Vern? Is that why it's 'yours'? I've believed many things sincerely and deeply. That doesn't make them absolute. I could have been wrong or misunderstood. These things happen which is why dialogue and understanding are so important.

    If a person just thinks they have 'their truth' they could end up being sorely mis- or uninformed. I've seen that occur more than once.
    As Aragorn has said, you answered your own question regards, always more to discover = infinate.
    Yes indeed i own a truth, all outside of now is truth not known yet.

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  15. #68
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    No. There are things that have proven to be true, and of which we know that they are true because we can (and do) rely on them 100% every single day. But at the same time, there are also hypotheses, some of which are believed to be true because there is no evidence to the contrary, even though there is also no absolute evidence to corroborate the hypotheses — this is the realm of axioms. And then there are yet other hypotheses of which it is unknown whether they are true or false, but which exist nevertheless because they can be spelled out as mathematical formulas that work with other mathematical formulas.

    So there's a bit of everything in science, but there is definitely a given amount of established truth among that, and scientists will never deny this.
    Indeed and interesting and changable imo Aragorn, no-one can see the reflection in the mirror, what am i, clue be a not red planet.

    Also nowadays less scientests are shying away, well better said, more are embracing elements of woo woo.

    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    logic can easily construct a 'true' statement or a 'false' statement, it's axiomatic, but then there must be a buy-in to consensus reality. By far, not axiomatic in the quantum age. That truth makes me laugh with maniacal glee.
    Take me new truth saying > all outside of now is truth not known yet. < now we into nows, your nows n others nows.

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  17. #69
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    Science should be a method and inquiry into objective truth and it can be. There is an attempt at that, but it does fall short at times, yet it doesn't mean that all mainstream would be corrupt. Scientists are still human and they are fallible, corruptible and so forth. The systems can be corrupted, but true science is supposed to always evolve and upgrade itself with new information so it won't just become a dogmatic worldview too, like materialism is. Some things we do know for sure, like that the Earth is round and also the laws of gravity and such. Then there is also "settled" science like climate science. Except it's just a theory which is being sold to us for monetary purposes.

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    Super Moderator Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Science should be a method and inquiry into objective truth and it can be. There is an attempt at that, but it does fall short at times, yet it doesn't mean that all mainstream would be corrupt. Scientists are still human and they are fallible, corruptible and so forth. The systems can be corrupted, but true science is supposed to always evolve and upgrade itself with new information so it won't just become a dogmatic worldview too, like materialism is.
    That's a great description. I think part of the problem surrounding the word "science" is most of us have fallen into seeing it as being outside of ourselves. Science is almost synonymous with "research", and it's not just those in the ivory towers that can do it, although they can usually do it at a much higher level because of higher education, and the means to do it with.

    I think posting content on forums in general would be at a much higher level if more posters thought of their own material in more scientific/research terms. Testing it's validity before putting it out there.

    Here's a rather crude example of what I'm getting at: living out in the woods, one of the ongoing chores is to keep mice out of the house, we let it get away from us at first and it turned into a god damn infestation. So we invested in some live traps and baited them in three strategic locations. That got rid of the infestation real quick, and now it's just a matter of daily maintenance by checking them.

    To the point: after some time of them being totally gone, suddenly 3 or 4 were trapped in quick succession. Then some more time passed and it happened again, 3 or 4 were trapped in quick succession. That got us to thinking "hmmm, we don't catch them at a steady here and there, one by one, we're getting them in groups, I wonder if it's whole families that come in all at once?"

    Some more time passed, and it just happened again recently, 3 were trapped in succession. That's a pattern now, it's been observed 3 times, and it's now looking rather likely that they're coming in as families indeed. But had I just posted in "The Mouse Thread" after the first catch that they're coming inside in families, I wouldn't know what the hell I'm talking about because it's only been observed as happening one time LOL!

    But now after observing the exact same thing 3 times in a row, it really is looking like "The Family Theory" might just be accurate. I really do think it is now, but then again I could still be wrong, because for all I know it's not families at all, maybe every now and then the whole mouse population explodes, and any random number of them are going to get inside. Or maybe they have certain unknown migratory patterns, and the same thing a certain random amount are bound to get in as they come through.

    As for right now I'm placing my bets on "The Family Theory", that the mouse population is fairly static, and that every now and then a family comes across us and wants the shelter, but I still don't know for sure and my eyes are now set further out to try and notice any patterns that may challenge my theory.



    In the same vein, when we come across some new information out their, it's totally fine to take it on board and say "hmmm, that's interesting"; it may be true, it may not be true, but it's important to not get so attached to its validity that we discount any other information that may show otherwise. It's low brow science, but it's science none the less, if we're not looking to constantly improve, refine, or even toss out things we think to be true, then all we're doing is just taking shit onboard and spitting it back out there.

    Science is about what is true, not what we want to be true.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  21. #71
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Science is about what is true, not what we want to be true.
    Exactly.

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  23. #72
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    ...living out in the woods, one of the ongoing chores is to keep mice out of the house...
    Oh, the mice. As we don't have a cat right now, I have to keep the traps baited regularly. And they get used. The mice seem to be able to squeeze through a pin hole.

    I see the same patterns you've described but with some more details. I've observed that one or two get in, give birth and the numbers increase. Often, when trapped, two will be full adults and the rest smaller and younger. They come in and reproduce. At least that's the pattern here. I'm just one house.

    The locations where they get trapped can vary. Sometimes they've figured out to climb up behind the stove. Sometimes they've figured out where the dog food bowl is. Sometimes it's another attractor. But I trap all places where I've observed/trapped before. Different groups hit different spots.

    I generally don't kill creatures that come inside. I even rescued a wolf spider last month after returning from Scotland. But the mice get trapped. I've had too much damage and other bad nuisance from them, including chewing up the wires in a washing machine.

    Mice, fleas, and ticks get 'the axe'.

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    I think, Aianawa, that your assertions about truth revolve around both its subjectivity, and the idea that we create our own truth and our own reality. But you're not just talking about your own personal reality, you're talking about holding to a truth so that it will manifest and actually become the larger reality. And the various energetic observations that you share or make are a part of the different energy that you want to manifest in the world right now.

    So you hold to your truths as yours because that is what you are trying to bring into the world. I will admit that your truths often seem to be at cross purposes. But no other person can be inside your head. As your language is quite cryptic, it leaves much to be guessed.

    I do hope, ultimately, that you hope for the best for all. However, your very grave accusations cause me to believe that that may not be the case. I can't imagine throwing around pedo accusations the way that you do. Those words could actually cause such things to manifest when repeated over and over. And that doesn't mean you were 'right' if you're evoking it. That's just injecting bad energy into the world.

    And so I like to see when you offer positive words and hopes.

    And I hope they're true.

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    That's a great description. I think part of the problem surrounding the word "science" is most of us have fallen into seeing it as being outside of ourselves. Science is almost synonymous with "research", and it's not just those in the ivory towers that can do it, although they can usually do it at a much higher level because of higher education, and the means to do it with.

    I think posting content on forums in general would be at a much higher level if more posters thought of their own material in more scientific/research terms. Testing it's validity before putting it out there.

    Here's a rather crude example of what I'm getting at: living out in the woods, one of the ongoing chores is to keep mice out of the house, we let it get away from us at first and it turned into a god damn infestation. So we invested in some live traps and baited them in three strategic locations. That got rid of the infestation real quick, and now it's just a matter of daily maintenance by checking them.

    To the point: after some time of them being totally gone, suddenly 3 or 4 were trapped in quick succession. Then some more time passed and it happened again, 3 or 4 were trapped in quick succession. That got us to thinking "hmmm, we don't catch them at a steady here and there, one by one, we're getting them in groups, I wonder if it's whole families that come in all at once?"

    Some more time passed, and it just happened again recently, 3 were trapped in succession. That's a pattern now, it's been observed 3 times, and it's now looking rather likely that they're coming in as families indeed. But had I just posted in "The Mouse Thread" after the first catch that they're coming inside in families, I wouldn't know what the hell I'm talking about because it's only been observed as happening one time LOL!

    But now after observing the exact same thing 3 times in a row, it really is looking like "The Family Theory" might just be accurate. I really do think it is now, but then again I could still be wrong, because for all I know it's not families at all, maybe every now and then the whole mouse population explodes, and any random number of them are going to get inside. Or maybe they have certain unknown migratory patterns, and the same thing a certain random amount are bound to get in as they come through.

    As for right now I'm placing my bets on "The Family Theory", that the mouse population is fairly static, and that every now and then a family comes across us and wants the shelter, but I still don't know for sure and my eyes are now set further out to try and notice any patterns that may challenge my theory.



    In the same vein, when we come across some new information out their, it's totally fine to take it on board and say "hmmm, that's interesting"; it may be true, it may not be true, but it's important to not get so attached to its validity that we discount any other information that may show otherwise. It's low brow science, but it's science none the less, if we're not looking to constantly improve, refine, or even toss out things we think to be true, then all we're doing is just taking shit onboard and spitting it back out there.

    Science is about what is true, not what we want to be true.
    Enjoyable post ta Wind, two autums ago i went through the she'll be rite attitude only to have as you say FN infestation, live trapped as well and lo n behold in me wee house last week, one little field mouse, shit why so cute ?.
    Oh yeah, mouse families usualllly a few babies, unlikely 1 or two but the trapping may scare others off.

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Once, years ago, when I trapped the adults a baby mouse toddled out onto the kitchen floor squeaking for its parents. It had huge round ears and was the cutest thing I'd laid eyes on. It was kinda heartbreaking to watch it. It had no fear of me yet.

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