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Thread: Immortal Body - Perfect health at a permanent age of 39, maybe?

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    Immortal Body - Perfect health at a permanent age of 39, maybe?

    Immortality possible? For the body, not as a cripple but vibrant and in full health?

    How about fixed at a biological age of let's say 39?



    In this thread we will dissect the mechanisms of aging, how and why cells die, and thusly the complex organism. This thread is not about AI, nor uploading one's brain into some 'thing'..

    In this thread we'll try to talk about fine tuning what we have, or optimizing gene sequencing, turning off the death mechanisms, and turning ON the regeneration, bringing the body back to about the optimal of 39.

    People will say the soul doesn't die, they are the immortal being, and having a limited body life is no concern to them.

    Plenty of material for many more threads, to get into those other concepts. Within this thread we will look at finding out IF immortality can be achieved. And what is it, in the cells that programs in cell death..

    Have breakthroughs been achieved? Yes.. optimum yet, no..

    Enjoy the read, and in some spots it may be a bit technical, I will endeavor to break it down in to simpler terms as we proceed..

    --Bob



    PS - has anyone talked about '39' as an age when asked how old they are?

    Jack Benny.. actually started using 39 as the age he said he was when asked.

    Recognized as a leading American entertainer of the 20th century, Benny portrayed his character as a miser, playing his violin badly. In character, he would always be 39 years of age, regardless of his actual age.

    Benny was known for comic timing, and the ability to create laughter with a pregnant pause or a single expression, such as his signature exasperated "Well!" His radio and television programs, popular from the 1930s to the 1970s, were a major influence on the sitcom genre.

    Hilarious right? Just a fiction?

    W E L L




    Maybe not..
    Last edited by Bob, 27th December 2014 at 00:06.

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    The body has built in senescence. This is a gradual programmed deterioration of functional ability characteristic of most complex lifeforms, arguably found in all biological kingdoms, that on the level of the organism increases mortality after it grows up.

    Growing old "gracefully" has been a choice for folks who choose to savor the good moments; burning out like a "road flare" tends to be a wild ride hot and heavy pedal to the metal.. Supposedly with older age comes some wisdom that it hurts more to bang into the wall full speed, then simply going around it..

    So for old and young alike, how about get a bigger more fruitful ride? Not quite done learning and experiencing yet?

    It's not a fear of dying.. thinking that "well on another plane one will ascend", and not be put back into 'storage' for soul recycling is always the discussion (numerous threads about the light and not..)

    None of that is for discussion in this thread, this is about something very interesting..

    That the bodies do HAVE a set of triggers whence pressed, in the right sequence, the body repairs, age reduces, and immortality is achieved. Fountain of youth?


    A meeting happened

    Stem cell researchers meeting in San Antonio say they are just a few decades away from the ultimate prize...coming up with a 'universal pill' to rejuvenate human tissue and extend our functional lives indefinitely, News Radio 1200 WOAI's Stephanie Narvaez reports.

    The idea of the STEM CELL is that it is a cell which can become anything NEEDED for the body's blue-print which is encoded in the DNA. DNA is instructions in how to take raw materials, and fold it into a LIFE FORM. DNA takes chaos and creates order from it.

    Dr. Aubrey DeGrey, the Chief Science Officer of California-based SENS Research Foundation, told researchers at the Global Stem Cell Summit recently, that stem cell scientists from around the world are working on a 'pill that would prevent humans from getting sick.'

    What exists in the DNA are triggers which can turn on REPAIR SEQUENCES.. Sequence are instructions that can tell the cells to do something.. This pill would contain a method of turning on those sequences.. It would also contain substances to TURN OFF viral replication, and other genetically damaging substances.

    Degrey: "It should prevent us from getting sick, ever," he said. "Basically, I'm saying that we won't get anything any more. People will get chronologically older, but they won't get physiologically older."

    The immortalizing 'God pill' has been a goal of researchers ever since the isolation of the human genome, The genome is a data bank study of all of the DNA and what in the DNA does what.

    It was important to have DNA research. To understand the instructions and coding of LIFE itself.

    Dr. DeGrey, is a professor at the Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology.

    Without any extraordinary breakthrough occurring, science is 'twenty to thirty years away' from coming up with the proper DNA triggers. Those being activated, and the human body then essentially automatically rejuvenates itself. Functional IMMORTALITY.

    Right now the DNA therapy database is showing 30 more years of quality life is capable. Going full immortality is only a matter of mapping and triggering the proper sequences.

    Sources: assorted life rejuvenation articles (additional references will be at the conclusion of the thread)

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    I had started looking at the built-in senescence issue to see why would it logically be incorporated into a cell, or an organism.. My guess is, it has to do with nature trying many different combinations of gene codes to see "what is the fittest" to deal with the current level of assault.

    If the gig is to figure out "what does it mean to be __________(identity, fill in the blank with your favorite 'self')" then if that answer is derived, if one has reproduced then the question as far as gene code is answered. As far as the spirit for the identity being satisfied, that is another question. If the soul base is using a particular set of similar genetic bodies to try to get an answer to something that is interesting also...

    I started looking 50 years ago into every piece of data that was available that I could get my hands on in this subject - including what are the damaging factors messing with gene codes. Not too much progress being talked about, so I went looking for my own data to develop my own research, based on guidance provided by those who tried.

    The situation comes down to addressing what is in the body, the mechanisms that keeps it running well. What are the steps taken to keep it running well, with quality experience. When something gets out of rhythm, (that is the key word), what method can be used to get it back..

    When the cells have a program within them, to re-establish bio-rhythms (biological cellular rhythms), that program can be re-activated. Normally some type of disease trigger will cause a rebuilding mechanism to happen.. Or an injury, requiring rapid cell healing (get a nasty burn and what happens? Certain reactions are turned on, and eventually the burn is healed, even without a scar..)

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    Point to ask, what is it that is in the body, what are the mechanisms that keep it running well.

    What are the steps taken to keep it running well, with quality experience.

    When something gets out of rhythm, (that is the key word), what (physical) method(s) can be used to get it back..

    In the subsequent posts, we will look at those rhythms.. both for cell life and for cell death..

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    Whether or not a spiritual factor is involved to get to the place of figuring out the right frequency patterns is somewhat related to the thread, meaning the frequencies can be used to evoke the triggering, if one were able to sort out what GENE code means, in frequency space.

    Assuming that an untrained mind can trigger the correct patterns - doubt that. BUT WHAT IF WE COULD??

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    Seniors received a significant boost to their immune systems when given a drug that targets a genetic signaling pathway linked to aging and immune function.

    (Source)

    The mTOR genetic pathway promotes healthy growth in the young. (This is how the genetic switches work.. When the HGH is still present, mTOR works fine.. WHEN HGS is turned OFF (growing stops), and mTOR response changes.. in other words, PROPER sequencing of the switching is required, re-establishing proper cycles)..


    When drugs like rapamycin are used to inhibit the effects of the mTOR pathway in mice, they "seem to extend lifespan and delay the onset of aging-related illnesses," Mannick said.

    Mannick and her colleagues decided to investigate whether a rapamycin-like drug could reverse the natural decline that elderly people experience in their ability to fight off infections.

    Rapamycin belongs to a class of drugs known as mTOR inhibitors, which have been shown to counteract aging and aging-related diseases in mice and other animals.
    Last edited by Bob, 26th December 2014 at 20:04.

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    Apoptosis - programmed Cell Death

    We will get a little bit technical below, no worries.. When we get into the LETTER SEQUENCES for the GENES, these are JUST designations pointing to the gene program.. sorta like names used to label CD's, purely arbitrary, and used for catelogging only

    --------------------

    Within the nucleus of the Cell, there are Chromosomes, or information packets containing further sets of instructions called GENES - which are made of/from DNA - we ARE made by the instructions from our GENES.. STEP by STEP.. From start to finish, the GENES have it all within them..

    So our 3 key words are Chromosomes, GENES and DNA..



    DNA - The DNA in one's cells is packaged into 46 chromosomes in the nucleus. As well as being a naturally helical molecule, DNA is supercoiled using enzymes so that it takes up less space.

    Try holding a piece of string at one end, and twisting the other. As you add twist, the string creates coils of coils; and eventually, coils of coils of coils.

    One's DNA is arranged as a coil of coils of coils of coils of coils! (TIGHT PACKING.)

    This allows the 3 billion base pairs in each cell to fit into a space just 6 microns across.

    If you stretched the DNA in one cell all the way out, it would be about 2m long and all the DNA in all your cells put together would be about twice the diameter of the Solar System. THERE ARE ONLY TWO STRANDS in DNA.



    CHROMOSOME - In humans, each cell normally contains 23 pairs of chromosomes, for a total of 46.

    Twenty-two of these pairs, called autosomes, look the same in both males and females.

    The 23rd pair, the sex chromosomes, differ between males and females. Females have two copies of the X chromosome, while males have one X and one Y chromosome.



    GENE - Most genes contain the information needed to make functional molecules called proteins. (A few genes produce other molecules that help the cell assemble proteins.)

    The journey from gene to protein is complex and tightly controlled within each cell.

    It consists of two major steps: transcription and translation. Together, transcription and translation are known as gene expression.

    NB: ALL ACTIONS to MAKE the body, keep it living, ARE CONTROLLED BY THE GENES.

    GENES are sensitive to external AND internal chemical and electrical stimulation.

    During the process of transcription, the information stored in a gene’s DNA is transferred to a similar molecule called RNA (ribonucleic acid) in the cell nucleus. Both RNA and DNA are made up of a chain of nucleotide bases, but they have slightly different chemical properties.

    The type of RNA that contains the information for making a protein is called messenger RNA (mRNA) because it carries the information, or message, from the DNA out of the nucleus into the cytoplasm. (Cytoplasm, the semi-liquid gel within the cell in which the nucleus resides).

    Translation, the second step in getting from a gene to a protein, takes place in the cytoplasm.

    The mRNA interacts with a specialized complex called a ribosome, which “reads” the sequence of mRNA bases. Each sequence of three bases, called a codon, usually codes for one particular amino acid. (Amino acids are the building blocks of proteins.)

    A type of RNA called transfer RNA (tRNA) assembles the protein, one amino acid at a time.

    Protein assembly continues until the ribosome encounters a “stop” codon (a sequence of three bases that does not code for an amino acid).

    ---------------------------

    The flow of information from DNA to RNA to Proteins is one of the fundamental principles of molecular biology.

    Separation of GENES into FUNCTION -

    Each cell expresses, or turns on, only a fraction of its genes.

    The rest of the genes are repressed, or turned off. The process of turning genes on and off is known as gene regulation.

    Gene regulation is an important part of normal development.

    Genes are turned on and off in different patterns during development to make a brain cell look and act different from a liver cell or a muscle cell, for example.

    Gene regulation also allows cells to react quickly to changes in their environments.

    Although we know that the regulation of genes is critical for life, this complex process is not yet fully understood.

    Gene regulation can occur at any point during gene expression, but most commonly occurs at the level of transcription (when the information in a gene’s DNA is transferred to mRNA).

    Signals from the environment or from other cells activate proteins called transcription factors.

    These proteins bind to regulatory regions of a gene and increase or decrease the level of transcription.

    By controlling the level of transcription, this process can determine the amount of protein product that is made by a gene at any given time.

    ONE ONLY wants a certain amount of muscles built, or skin built, or heart cells built at a given time.. WHEN DAMAGE occurs one wants some type of REPAIR to start, to enable the organ to continue to function properly..

    Induction of Apoptosis:

    There are GENES specifically designed to terminate or kill the cell. These are the killers..

    There are specific categories, where attempts to repair damage happen first. When damage repair cannot be adequately accomplished the "death receptors" activate.

    A cell has to normally TURN OFF the death sequence and a properly functioning cell WILL continually turn OFF its own death.. (Anti-Apoptosis genes). FOLLOW me on this.. The cell MUST continually TURN OFF its own death.. !!

    When the cell cannot turn OFF its death cycle, which IS normally there, latent and waiting, due to excessive unrepairable damage to the DNA, the death receptors start to function to call up the steps needed to shut-down dna replication.. FLAGS appear to the other cells in the body responsible for cleaning up debris (damaged cellular material).

    Death Domain Receptors: CRADD, FADD, TNF, TNFRSF10B (DR5).

    DNA Damage: ABL1, CIDEA, CIDEB, TP53, TP73.

    Extracellular Signals: CFLAR (CASPER), DAPK1, TNFRSF25 (DR3).
    Other: BAD, BAK1, BAX, BCL10, BCL2L11, BCLAF1, BID, BIK, BNIP1, BNIP3, BNIP3L, CASP1 (ICE), CASP10 (MCH4), CASP14, CASP2, CASP3, CASP4, CASP6, CASP8, CD27 (TNFRSF7), CD70 (TNFSF7), DFFA, FAS (TNFRSF6), FASLG (TNFSF6), GADD45A, HRK, LTA (TNFB), NOD1 (CARD4), PYCARD (TMS1/ASC), TNFRSF10A, TNFRSF9, TNFSF10 (TRAIL), TNFSF8, TP53BP2, TRADD, TRAF3.

    Anti-Apoptosis: AKT1, BAG1, BAG3, BAG4, BAX, BCL2, BCL2A1 (Bfl-1/A1), BCL2L1 (BCL-X), BCL2L10, BCL2L2, BFAR, BIRC3 (c-IAP1), BIRC6, BIRC8, BNIP1, BNIP2, BNIP3, BNIP3L, BRAF, CD27 (TNFRSF7), CD40LG (TNFSF5), CFLAR (CASPER), DAPK1, FAS (TNFRSF6), HRK, IGF1R, MCL1, NAIP (BIRC1), NOL3, RIPK2, TNF, XIAP (BIRC4).

    Regulation of Apoptosis:

    Negative Regulation: BAG1, BAG3, BAG4, BCL10, BCL2, BCL2A1 (Bfl-1/A1), BCL2L1 (BCL-X), BCL2L10, BCL2L2, BFAR, BIRC3 (c-IAP1), BIRC6, BIRC8, BNIP1, BNIP2, BNIP3, BNIP3L, BRAF, CASP3, CD27 (TNFRSF7), CD40LG (TNFSF5), CFLAR (CASPER), CIDEA, DAPK1, DFFA, FAS (TNFRSF6), IGF1R, MCL1, NAIP (BIRC1), NOL3, TP53, TP73, XIAP (BIRC4).

    Positive Regulation: ABL1, AKT1, BAD, BAK1, BAX, BCL2L11, BCLAF1, BID, BIK, BNIP3, BNIP3L, CASP1 (ICE), CASP10 (MCH4), CASP14, CASP2, CASP4, CASP6, CASP8, CD70 (TNFSF7), CIDEB, CRADD, FADD, FASLG (TNFSF6), HRK, LTA (TNFB), NOD1 (CARD4), PYCARD (TMS1/ASC), RIPK2, TNF, TNFRSF10A, TNFRSF10B (DR5), TNFRSF25 (DR3), TNFRSF9, TNFSF10 (TRAIL), TNFSF8, TP53, TP53BP2, TRADD, TRAF2, TRAF3, TRAF4.

    Both positive and negative regulation steps provide a type of ACTIVE FEEDBACK to keep the repair and killing mechanisms in balance.

    It should be obvious that when the feedback mechanisms are set out of rhythm, that issues can arise.. It is in these feedback mechanisms where 'tampering' has happened, leading to a body "life span" at best on a programmed average of about 100 years.

    I will get further into the specific gene sequences in the repair and regulatory genes later in the thread.
    Last edited by Bob, 27th December 2014 at 00:16.

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    There are 84 key genes involved in programmed cell death.

    Apoptosis plays a critical role in normal biological processes requiring cell removal including differentiation, development, and homeostasis.

    Stress responses (such as heat shock, ischemia, unfolded proteins, and viral infection) cause badly damaged cells to undergo apoptosis.

    In cell culture, growth factor withdrawal and many known experimental compounds have a similar effect.

    An acquired defect in apoptosis activation often leads to uncontrolled cell growth, oncogenesis, and cancer. (KEY UNDERSTANDING HERE)

    Ligand-bound tumor necrosis factor (TNF) receptors initiate apoptosis by recruiting FADD and other death domain adaptor proteins that then recruit and activate caspases.

    Environmental stresses trigger BCL2 protein oligomerization and insertion into the mitochondrial membrane, releasing APAF1 and other CARD family members that also oligomerize to recruit and activate caspases.

    Caspases promote a proteolysis cascade that degrades cellular protein targets, while the IAP protein family directly inhibits caspases. (This is an example of the positive/negative FEEDBACK mechanism at work).

    This array includes TNF ligands and their receptors, members of the bcl-2, caspase, IAP, TRAF, CARD, death domain, death effector domain, and CIDE families, as well as genes involved in the p53 and DNA damage pathways.
    Last edited by Bob, 25th December 2015 at 23:26.

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    Caspases and the apoptosome - Killers kept under control

    The caspases are a family of proteins (made by the GENES) that are one of the main executors of the apoptotic process.

    They belong to a group of enzymes known as cysteine proteases and exist within the cell as inactive pro-forms or zymogens.

    Keywords, exist within the cell AS NORMALLY INACTIVE proto-forms.

    These zymogens can be cleaved to form active enzymes following the induction of apoptosis. So splitting them off, allows them to then become potentially ACTIVATED.. Whence activated, the cascade reactions start to rip apart the cell (and of course facilitate cellular death). Stopping this from happening would be ONE pathway for cellular immortallizing.

    Induction of apoptosis via death receptors typically results in the activation of an initiator caspase such as caspase 8 or caspase 10.

    These caspases can then activate other caspases in a cascade.

    This is where the DEATH sequence is actively promoting the disintegration of the DNA and other cellular proteins back into basic amino acids (that can potentially be recycled).

    This cascade eventually leads to the activation of the effector caspases, such as caspase 3 and caspase 6.

    These caspases are responsible for the cleavage of the key cellular proteins, such as cytoskeletal proteins, that leads to the typical morphological changes observed in cells undergoing apoptosis.

    The Apopto-some

    The program packet in other words, or a set of instructions and feedback mechanisms to activate various sub-routines to control how to kill.

    There are a number of other mechanisms, aside from activation of the death receptors, through which the caspase cascade can be activated.

    Granzyme B can be delivered into cells by cytotoxic T lymphocytes and is able to directly activate caspases 3, 7, 8 and 10.

    The mitochondria are also key regulators of the caspase cascade and apoptosis. Release of cytochrome C from mitochondria can lead to the activation of caspase 9, and then of caspase 3. This effect is mediated through the formation of an apoptosome, a multi-protein complex consisting of cytochrome C, Apaf-1, pro-caspase 9 and ATP.

    Caspases and chromatin breakdown

    One of the hallmarks of apoptosis is the cleavage of chromosomal DNA into nucleosomal units.

    The caspases play an important role in this process by activating DNases, inhibiting DNA repair enzymes and breaking down structural proteins in the nucleus.

    This processes is illustrated below:



    1) Inactivation of enzymes involved in DNA repair.

    The enzyme poly (ADP-ribose) polymerase, or PARP, was one of the first proteins identified as a substrate for caspases. PARP is involved in repair of DNA damage and functions by catalyzing the synthesis of poly (ADP-ribose) and by binding to DNA strand breaks and modifying nuclear proteins. The ability of PARP to repair DNA damage is prevented following cleavage of PARP by caspase-3.

    2) Breakdown of structural nuclear proteins.

    Lamins are intra-nuclear proteins that maintain the shape of the nucleus and mediate interactions between chromatin and the nuclear membrane. Degradation of lamins by caspase 6 results in the chromatin condensation and nuclear fragmentation commonly observed in apoptotic cells.

    3) Fragmentation of DNA.

    The fragmentation of DNA into nucleosomal units - as seen in DNA laddering assays - is caused by an enzyme known as CAD, or caspase activated DNase. Normally CAD exists as an inactive complex with ICAD (inhibitor of CAD). During apoptosis, ICAD is cleaved by caspases, such as caspase 3, to release CAD. Rapid fragmentation of the nuclear DNA follows.

    And there you have it, a cell is taken apart, reduced to bare components, and quite "dead".

    SO, what happens when CASPASES are toned down a bit?
    Last edited by Bob, 26th December 2014 at 23:24.

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    Well this is really "thick" as the jargon is foreign to my ears/knowledge. I'm gleaning that toning down the caspases, would assist the body to rejuvenate more readily and thus slow down the aging process..............hope I don't have this backwards as I found it somewhat confusing to my non-scientific mind

    By the way Bob, wasn't the 'original' Rife machine able to re-calibrate our frequencies to their healthy functioning state and thus vanished as a result?

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    VERY GOOD Sandy - missing dots connected

    Rife, Abrams, Drown - each of those researchers were experimenting with machines which were able to induce different frequency patterns able to alter the gene triggers, (activation or suppression).


    Quote Originally posted by sandy View Post
    Well this is really "thick" as the jargon is foreign to my ears/knowledge. I'm gleaning that toning down the caspases, would assist the body to rejuvenate more readily and thus slow down the aging process..............hope I don't have this backwards as I found it somewhat confusing to my non-scientific mind

    By the way Bob, wasn't the 'original' Rife machine able to re-calibrate our frequencies to their healthy functioning state and thus vanished as a result?

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    When is it appropriate to have DEAD cells present? Think about the SKIN, a layer of dead cells (outermost), separated by an inner basal cell level, where the cells going to the surface are not completely 'digested'. Mucous membranes, the tissues in the mouth, intestine, at the surface must be used protectively..

    New skin cells are formed from the basal cells in the lowest cell layer in the epidermis. From there they migrate towards the surface.

    So dead cells do have a purpose, on the OUTSIDE of the body, the surface layers exposed to the outside world. A layer of dead keratin-filled cells at the surface, to help reduce water loss.


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    Hundreds of Caspase inhibitors are being located, from natural substances, also derived from viruses, as well as synthetically synthesized..

    Iodoacetamide is one of those substances - the smallest amounts of IodoAcetamide have resulted in complete caspase suppression.

    Iodo-acetamide is a cysteine protease inhibitor that blocks HSF fragmentation, also inhibited apoptosis. (HSF - Heat Shock Fragmentation induced)

    2- iodine acetamide; iodine substituting acetamide

    Production methods : the chloro-acetamide recombination reaction with sodium iodide is used. Will start with chloro-acetamide; needed reagents, Anhydrous acetone, and sodium iodide; requires that Anhydrous sodium iodide is placed in a bath with the acetamide for about 15h. Then cool to room temperature, filtered with sodium chloride, using acetone recovery, poured into the drying oven after the sodium bisulfate ice water, then use sodium chloride and keep the saturated solution set to pH 6. Cooling and crystallization, filtration in crude. Crude but can use water purification crystallization, which afterwards, the synthesis and recovery steps are now finished. Iodide coupling to the acetamide is the object removing the chlorine component. Acetamide is an organic compound with the formula CH₃CONH₂. It is the simplest amide derived from acetic acid.

    (Source)

    Are there interesting observations with the acetate chloro or acetate iodo (iodine) substances?

    DCA (DiChloroAcetate) has been used experimentally in stopping some Cancers..

    Looking further then into acetates should be useful.. (Acetate, as in vinegar, acetic acid)..
    Last edited by Bob, 26th December 2014 at 22:14.

  26. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Bob For This Useful Post:

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  27. #14
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    There is a LOT going on in this field, certainly in the UK which quite frankly if if I posted about I would be suicided before you could say "Qlue wot would get me killed'.

    Not joking either !

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    Quote Originally posted by Spiral View Post
    There is a LOT going on in this field, certainly in the UK which quite frankly if if I posted about I would be suicided before you could say "Qlue wot would get me killed'.

    Not joking either !
    tho it may not stop you from PMing bob to help with useful references


    bob, when you mentioned 'acetates as in vinegar', was that to suggest a dietary use? thanks

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