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Thread: The Greatest Story Never Told......

  1. #16
    Senior Member Lord Sidious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Tribe View Post
    one must always try to be switzerland
    But they have holy cheese!
    Ní siocháin go saoirse

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Lord Sidious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Highland1 View Post
    Spot on your nuggetship, we do indeed have to take everything with a pinch of salt ( as long as its pure pink Himalayan of course! ) but never the less, we are striving to learn our true history and many good German people have been tarnished eternally because of Hitlers reputation and what he was reputed to have done.
    We can still make choices and those who choose to watch the video will not be easily swayed by any obvious mistruths.
    An open debate has always been welcomed here and your input, given your extensive knowledge of true history, would be invaluable for us regular forum nuggets doncha think?

    P.s I only got the back end of your podcast on alt-ireland the other night due to technical problems but I did catch a little bit about the Windsors not being true Germans but Venetians in origin
    as they were forced to marry into the Goethe family?

    Fantastic stuff cobber, please tell us more?

    Rusty McNugget
    They weren't forced to marry, they were forced to leave Italy after they lost the war they war in.
    They are actually Guelphs.
    Ní siocháin go saoirse

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  5. #18
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    Quote Originally posted by Lord Sidious View Post
    They weren't forced to marry, they were forced to leave Italy after they lost the war they war in.
    They are actually Guelphs.
    Thank you kind sir, it all makes sense now.....

    Guelphs and Ghibellines
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    [hide]
    Wars of the Guelphs and Ghibellines

    The Guelphs and Ghibellines (English pronunciation: [gwɛlfs], [gɪbəliːnz] or [gɪbəlaɪnz]) were factions supporting the Pope and the Holy Roman Emperor, respectively, in central and northern Italy. During the 12th and 13th centuries, the split between these two parties was a particularly important aspect of the internal policy of the Italian city-states. The struggle for power between the Papacy and the Holy Roman Empire had arisen with the Investiture Conflict, which began in 1075 and ended with the Concordat of Worms in 1122. The division between the Guelphs and Ghibellines in Italy, however, persisted until the 15th century.

    Contents

    1 History
    1.1 Origins
    1.2 13th–14th centuries
    1.3 Later history
    2 Allegiance of the main Italian cities
    3 In heraldry
    4 In literature and popular culture
    4.1 In literature
    4.2 In movies
    5 See also
    6 References
    7 External links

    History
    Origins

    Guelph (often spelled Guelf; in Italian Guelfo, plural Guelfi) is an Italian form of Welf, the family of the dukes of Bavaria (including the namesake Welf, as well as Henry the Lion). The Welfs were said to have used the name as a rallying cry during the Battle of Weinsberg in 1140, in which the rival Hohenstaufens of Swabia (led by Conrad III) used Waiblingen, the name of a castle, as their cry. Waiblingen, at the time pronounced and spelled somewhat like "Wibellingen", subsequently became Ghibellino in Italian.

    The names were likely introduced to Italy during the reign of Frederick Barbarossa. When Frederick conducted military campaigns in Italy to expand imperial power there, his supporters became known as Ghibellines (Ghibellini). The Lombard League and its allies were defending the liberties of the urban communes against the Emperor's encroachments and became known as Guelphs (Guelfi).

    The Ghibellines were thus the imperial party, while the Guelphs supported the Pope. Broadly speaking, Guelphs tended to come from wealthy mercantile families, whereas Ghibellines were predominantly those whose wealth was based on agricultural estates. Guelph cities tended to be in areas where the Emperor was more of a threat to local interests than the Pope, and Ghibelline cities tended to be in areas where the enlargement of the Papal States was the more immediate threat. The Lombard League defeated Frederick at the Battle of Legnano in 1176. Frederick recognized the full autonomy of the cities of the Lombard league under his nominal suzerainty.

    The division developed its own dynamic in the politics of medieval Italy, and it persisted long after the direct confrontation between Emperor and Pope had ceased. Smaller cities tended to be Ghibelline if the larger city nearby was Guelph, as Guelph Florence and Ghibelline Siena faced off at the Battle of Montaperti, 1260. Pisa maintained a staunch Ghibelline stance against her fiercest rivals, the Guelph Genoa and Florence. Adherence to one of the parties could therefore be motivated by local or regional political reasons. Within cities, party allegiances differed from guild to guild, rione to rione, and a city could easily change party after internal upheaval. Moreover, sometimes traditionally Ghibelline cities allied with the Papacy, while Guelph cities were even punished with Papal interdict.

    Contemporaries did not use the terms Guelph and Ghibellines much until about 1250, and then only in Tuscany (where they originated), with the names "church party" and "imperial party" preferred in some areas.
    13th–14th centuries
    A 14th Century conflict between the militias of the Guelph and Ghibelline factions in the comune of Bologna, from the Croniche of Giovanni Sercambi of Lucca

    At the beginning of the 13th century, Philip of Swabia, a Hohenstaufen, and his son-in-law Otto of Brunswick, a Welf, were rivals for the imperial throne. Philip was supported by the Ghibellines as a relative of Frederick I, while Otto was supported by the Guelphs. Philip’s heir, Frederick II, was an enemy of both Otto and the Papacy, and during Frederick’s reign the Guelphs became more strictly associated with the Papacy while the Ghibellines became supporters of the Empire, and of Frederick in particular. Frederick II also introduced this division to the Crusader States in the Levant during the Sixth Crusade.

    After the death of Frederick II in 1250 the Ghibellines were supported by Conrad IV and later Manfred, while the Guelphs were supported by Charles of Anjou. The Sienese Ghibellines inflicted a noteworthy defeat on Florentine Guelphs at the Battle of Montaperti (1260). After the Hohenstaufen dynasty lost the Empire when Charles of Anjou executed Conradin in 1268, the terms Guelph and Ghibelline became associated with individual families and cities, rather than the struggle between empire and papacy. In that period the stronghold of Italian Ghibellines was the city of Forlì, in Romagna. That city remained with the Ghibelline factions, partly as a means of preserving its independence, rather than out of loyalty to the temporal power, as Forlì was nominally in the Papal States. Over the centuries, the papacy tried several times to regain control of Forlì, sometimes by violence or by allurements.

    The division between Guelphs and Ghibellines was especially important in Florence, although the two sides frequently rebelled against each other and took power in many of the other northern Italian cities as well. Essentially the two sides were now fighting either against German influence (in the case of the Guelphs), or against the temporal power of the Pope (in the case of the Ghibellines). In Florence and elsewhere the Guelphs usually included merchants and burghers, while the Ghibellines tended to be noblemen. They also adopted peculiar customs such as wearing a feather on a particular side of their hats, or cutting fruit a particular way, according to their affiliation.

    After the Guelphs finally defeated the Ghibellines in 1289 at Campaldino and Caprona, Guelphs began to fight among themselves. By 1300 the Florentine Guelphs had divided into the Black Guelphs and the White Guelphs. The Blacks continued to support the Papacy, while the Whites were opposed to Papal influence, specifically the influence of Pope Boniface VIII. Dante was among the supporters of the White Guelphs, and in 1302 was exiled when the Black Guelphs took control of Florence. Those who were not connected to either side, or who had no connections to either Guelphs or Ghibellines, considered both factions unworthy of support but were still affected by changes of power in their respective cities. Emperor Henry VII was disgusted by supporters of both sides when he visited Italy in 1310, and in 1334 Pope Benedict XII threatened people who used either name with excommunication. In 1325, the city-states of Guelph Bologna and Ghibelline Modena fought over a civic bucket in the War of the Bucket, where the famous Battle of Zappolino was fought. Modena's victory in this battle, and therefore the war, led to a resurgence of Ghibelline fortunes.
    Later history

    In Milan, the Guelphs and Ghibellines cooperated in the creation of the Ambrosian Republic in 1447, but over the next few years engaged in some intense disputes. After the initial leadership of the Ghibellines, the Guelphs seized power at the election of the Captains and Defenders of the Liberty of Milan. The Guelphic government became increasingly autocratic, leading to a Ghibelline conspiracy led by Giorgio Lampugnino and Teodoro Bossi. It failed, and many Ghibellines were massacred in 1449, while others fled, including the prominent Ghibelline Vitaliano Borromeo, who was sheltered in his county of Arona. Public opinion turned against the Guelphs, and in the next elections the Ghibellines were briefly victorious, but deposed after imprisoning Guelph leaders Giovanni Appiani and Giovanni Ossona.[1] After Francesco Sforza was made Duke by Milan's senate in 1450, many Ghibellines who had fled such as Filippo Borromeo and Luisino Bossi were restored to positions of prominence in Milan.[2]

    In the 15th century the Guelphs supported Charles VIII of France during his invasion of Italy at the start of the Italian Wars, while the Ghibellines were supporters of emperor Maximilian I. Cities and families used the names until Emperor Charles V firmly established imperial power in Italy in 1529.

    In the course of the Italian Wars of 1494 to 1559, the political landscape changed so much that the former division between Guelphs and Ghibellines became obsolete. This is evident with the election of Pope Paul V (1605), the first pope to bear the "Ghibelline" imperial eagle in chief of his coat of arms.


    It seems everything leads to the Vatican....


    Russ

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  7. #19
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    I've got some time today, 30 min. into it...

    what a love letter to a monster and those who love(d) him.

    he may have started out on the good foot, but tripped up big time along the way. historically tripped up.

    why do I sense a relationship between this sympathetic tome and the global re-rise of anti-semetism?

    what's next?
    a 12 hour extravaganza -- barack hussein obama saves the world (and you didn't even know it).

    still watching...

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  9. #20
    Senior Member Lord Sidious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by jimmer View Post
    why do I sense a relationship between this sympathetic tome and the global re-rise of anti-semetism?
    Very good catch.
    It's all part of the game.
    Ní siocháin go saoirse

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  11. #21
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    couldn't help looking into the film maker, dennis wise.

    from his site:
    “THERE WILL COME A DAY WHEN ALL THE LIES WILL COLLAPSE UNDER THEIR OWN WEIGHT,
    AND THE TRUTH WILL TRIUMPH AGAIN” – JOSEPH GOEBBELS


    the reich rises again? OMG

    this could only happen to a rived world.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puInFvUem7c

    http://thegreateststorynevertold.tv

    still watching...

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  13. #22
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    Quote Originally posted by Lord Sidious View Post
    just don't take sides, it is all part of the game.
    I don't take sides, but I like to walk around, see what's out there, and find out who is promoting what for what purpose...observer mode, always.

    With that in mind, I came across the following video at http://libertyfight.com/2014/auschwi...ng_murals.html


    In their own words...

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  15. #23
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    Quote Originally posted by Melidae View Post
    I don't take sides, but I like to walk around, see what's out there, and find out who is promoting what for what purpose...observer mode, always.

    With that in mind, I came across the following video at http://libertyfight.com/2014/auschwi...ng_murals.html

    In their own words...
    FWIW
    be careful.
    there were hundreds of nazi detainment / concentration camps, peppered all over germany and surrounding regions.
    some where not as punitive as others.
    some had special, strategic and well equipped functions. (if you get my drift)
    some of them where located in and around cities.
    often, the citizenry was well aware of those.
    they were all over the place.

    the survivors in that video were lucky ones.
    were some treated better than others? sure.
    the well documented horrors were massive and real.
    do a google.

    still watching...

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  17. #24
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    Whaw, I watched the whole thing.

    I'd already kinda realized what we have been taught was bollox. This film just adds nice mood music to it and really makes you notice how propaganda works.

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  19. #25
    Senior Member Lord Sidious's Avatar
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    I watched 95% of it last night.
    It is mostly true, some things I haven't heard of before, but a lot of obscure things I had.
    Telling the truth isn't the problem, it is the motivation.
    Ní siocháin go saoirse

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  21. #26
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    Quote Originally posted by Lord Sidious View Post
    I watched 95% of it last night.
    It is mostly true, some things I haven't heard of before, but a lot of obscure things I had.
    Telling the truth isn't the problem, it is the motivation.
    Don't you sleep your lordship, I only posted this yesterday afternoon, it must have been daft o clock in cobberland?

    Russ

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  23. #27
    Senior Member Lord Sidious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Highland1 View Post
    Don't you sleep your lordship, I only posted this yesterday afternoon, it must have been daft o clock in cobberland?

    Russ
    I downloaded it a while ago ya boxhead.
    Ní siocháin go saoirse

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  25. #28
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    My apologies your nuggetship .

    Russ

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    it was worst than I remembered:

    "...researchers found that the Nazis had actually established about 20,000 camps between 1933 and 1945.
    These 20,000 camps were used for a range of purposes including:
    forced-labor camps, transit camps which served as temporary way stations, and extermination camps, built primarily or exclusively for mass murder."


    I too have watched the entire thing. it's endless, isn't it?
    both the film and anti-semetism.

    was hitler originally on the right track. looks like it. he cleaned-up germany.
    but as german society was getting back to its feet, hitler and co. went far too far.
    was stalin a monster, as well? sure.
    two monsters.
    if hitler wasn't so aggressive, the a allies may have taken stalin on in defense of europe.
    but hitler didn't allow that. he attacked the allies and a response was required.
    did the allies do some bad things to win the war? the only answer is, war is hell.
    hitler brought it on his loving people.

    I looked for other opinions of this film.
    only one review could be found, but it seems thorough and honest.

    http://saberpoint.blogspot.com/2014/...lm-adolph.html
    (more research and conclusions)
    http://saberpoint.blogspot.com/2014/...de-by-pro.html

    you may have seen this documented aftermath of a few of the nazi concentration camps, Memory of the Camps.
    if you have, I bet you don't need a reminder. it's that harsh. we'll never forget the imagery, as well as trevor howard's narration. both haunting.
    but If you haven't and the hitler film seems plausible and that typhus was the only culprit, please give it your attention.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdUq993AsQc


    to get this out of my head and to move on, my take of this pro-hitler, pro-aryan film can be summarized:
    propaganda and big lies are often peddled wrapped in smaller truths.

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  29. #30
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    Quote Originally posted by jimmer View Post

    to get this out of my head and to move on, my take of this pro-hitler, pro-aryan film can be summarized:
    propaganda and big lies are often peddled wrapped in smaller truths.
    It was pretty much essential for the makers of this film to make a big thing of Hitler staying at the heart of it all in Berlin until the very 'end'.

    I don't know anything for absolute sure, but I don't believe he died in Berlin like that. I believe he got away, probably to Argentina.

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