Russia Engaging US Troops in Ukraine?

[Spiral]

Heres some more for the pot.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wv6lgyOUGk


Published on 9 Mar 2014

We've seen the rollout of the MSM propaganda using over-the-top hyperbole and flat-out lies to try to demonize Russia in the lead up to the "new cold war." But is this just part of the dialectic, trying to get us to buy into one side or the other in a rigged game? Should we devolve into mere spectators choosing sides in a squabble between #TeamObama and #TeamPutin? Join us this week on The Corbett Report as we explore whether the enemy of our enemy is indeed our friend.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5zyOSsIiYM


Published on 5 Mar 2014

"#Kiev snipers fired at protesters and police, were hired by Maidan leaders" - leaked phone call between EU's Catherine Ashton & Estonian FM

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5tUBgczjR0


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...d-Donetsk.html

[Fred Steeves]

I think Corbett explained this situation best with his feces sandwich analogy. That what we're being offered, the choice to root for Putin or the "West", is like choosing which half of a feces sandwich you want to eat.

There are also other choices, like eating something other than a sandwich, or even eating nothing at all. I enjoyed the pic of Putin giving Obama the middle finger as much as anyone, but that's about as far as it goes for me, entertainment. There are no "good guys" in this chess match, but it's sure one heck of a show. A very dangerous show at that.


Cheers

[norman]

Russia Shoots Down 2 US Drones Over Crimea

http://beforeitsnews.com/war-and-con...a-2451056.html

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arZnmvetKok


Then it's apparently denied again:

http://www.popsci.com/article/techno...wn-over-crimea

[Calz]

Crimea votes yes.

Players ... show your cards.

This from Joseph Farrell who has a good understanding of the economic situation (at several levels) particularly from a German point of view.

We have heard some of the verbal jousting (attack on on dollar and shutting off energy to EU) if sanctions against Russia do come to pass.

This piece offers a more moderate set of considerations.

_______________________


GERMAN BUSINESS LEADERS BEGIN TO BALK AT RUSSIAN SANCTIONS

Posted on March 15, 2014 by Joseph P. Farrell •

While Angela Merkel & Co., A.G. have been politely and quietly toeing the Washington party line – more or less – and sending noises about the Ukrainian crisis upsetting the world conference of G-8 nations, German businesmen have been expressing their growing concern over the noises on sanctions against Russia for its “meddling” in the Ukraine(not one, so far as I know, is talking about imposing sanctions on the USA and EU for their meddling in the Ukraine). But when German business speaks, Berlin listens, perhaps even more so than Washington, which apparently isn’t listening to much of anyone lately, unless of course one counts the NSA spying, in which case, it’s listening to everyone.

Zero Hedge is reporting the German businessmen’s concerns:

( http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed...%9D-banks-risk )

German Exporters Fire Warning Shot About Russia “Sanction-Spiral,” Banks At Risk

I want to draw your attention to these paragraphs:

“It isn’t just German exporters that are fretting, and lobbying with all their might. Russia, with an economy that is already stagnating, and dogged by vicious bouts of capital flight, has $732 billion in foreign debt. Relatively little of it is sovereign debt, but nearly $700 billion is owed by banks and corporations – most of them owned or controlled by the Kremlin. Oil major Rosneft and gas mastodon Gazprom owe $90 billion combined to foreign entities; the four state banks Sberbank, VTB, VEB, and Rosselkhozbank owe $60 billion. Some of this debt matures this year and next year.

“US banks are marginally involved. Between Bank of America, Citigroup, JPMorgan, and Wells Fargo, they have only $24 billion on the line. But European banks and insurance companies are up to their dirty ears in this suddenly iffy and potentially toxic Russian debt.

“When it comes due, it will have to be rolled over, and some of the companies will need to borrow more, simply to stay afloat. Alas, the current sanction regime of visa bans for the elite, asset freezes, and trade restrictions could make that difficult. Then there’s the threat, now more broadly but still unofficially bandied about, that Russian companies should simply default on this $700 billion in debt in retaliation for the sanctions.

“Some European banks, including some German banks, might crater. Even the possibility of a major loss would further rattle the confidence in these banks with their over-leveraged and inscrutable balance sheets and their assets that are still exuding whiffs of putrefaction. And this sort of fiasco, as the financial crisis has made clear, has an unpleasant way of snowballing – and taking down the already shaky global economy with it.

“During the financial crisis, German exports collapsed, banks toppled and got bailed out, and the economy experienced its two worst quarters in the history of the Federal Republic. No politician in Germany has any appetite to re-experience that. And the banking industry, with its powerful and long tentacles winding their way through the hallways and doors of the German government, has been assiduously at work, quietly and behind the scenes, to whittle any sanctions down to irrelevance.

“Washington’s defaulting on an agreement with Russia about Ukraine’s future, and the prospect of NATO troops in Ukraine, convinced Putin and much of the Russian elite that there’s no point in negotiating with the US.”

It’s that last statement – that the Russian elite is convinced there is no point in negotiating with the US – that concerns us. In my opinion, the USA has clearly embarked on a course of action designed to make Russia submit to Washington’s unipolar, New World Order will. But, as is pointed out, there are costs involved: major European, largely German, and American banks and corporations have major interest in Russia. A breach in relations now would endanger those interests for all three parties, Germany, the USA, and Russia. And such a breach would seriously cripple Germany’s economy, and hence, that of Europe.

This puts Germany in to a delicate diplomatic position, one fraught with opportunity, and danger, for Germany is positioned – again – to be a diplomatic go-between between Washington and Moscow. Failure of Berlin to communicate Russia’s legitimate interest to Washington would only fuel the growing opinion in Europe that their influence and voice count for nothing in Washington. And that would only serve, in the long term, to convince Europeans to increase their independence from Washington.

The more dangerous scenario – the high octane component – is this: the Ukrainian situation may have twin objectives, the obvious one being to open that country to Western(re. American) looting and dominance. But the more hidden objective would be to impose Washington’s will on a Germany that increasingly has acted with more independence. Insisting on sanctions could seriously cripple the German and hence EU economy, and in that weakened condition, Washington could step in and offer “trade agreements,” meaning a tighter grip by Washington on Europe.

In the short run, of course, it would work. But in the long run, it creates even more ill-will towards Washington as it extends the dictatus Americanae to Europe even more tightly.

Regardless of which route one envisions here, in my opinion, one thing seems evident, and that is unless the current insanity of covert operations led by NGOs, radical rebels in “liberation” efforts that have become Washington’s standard means of dealing both with friends and enemies, is changed, the only result will be the creation of a world-wide resentment and mistrust.

As for the USA, it bears repeating once again: drone strikes against leaders or other people a regime does not like, covert operations, assassinations, and proxies – the whole miserable game – are operational tactics not reserved to Washington’s exclusive use alone.

And ultimately, that is a game the Washington oligarchs cannot win.

See you on the flip side


http://gizadeathstar.com/2014/03/ger...ian-sanctions/

[Calabash]

BTW China has been rejecting GMO corn from the U.S since December 2013 and I picked up the following sentence from a website a short while ago:

"China continued to reject corn cargoes from the U.S. that contained an unapproved genetically modified variety while accepting a first bulk-carrier shipment of the grain from Ukraine". And from another website: "Russian media have been reporting that China is seeking the return of $3 billion in loans. The reports, also picked up by the South China Morning Post, cite an unnamed Ukrainian official as saying that China has filed a complaint against Ukraine for reneging on a deal where $3 billion in loans from China would be repaid in corn exports from Ukraine. According to the official, Kiev only provided a little over $150 million of worth of grain to China".

Under the circumstances China would have been considered rather corn-mealy-mouthed (to say the least) not to have abstained from the recent Crimea Resolution vote

[Altaira]

OK this is not good

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWE0cf6dBPE


Barack Obama has just announced new sanctions against Russia and their officials while also informing us that he's signed a new executive order as shared in this video. WW3 on the horizon or merely the collapse of the US dollar as the sanctions against Russia boomerang back in America's face?

[Tonz]

UPDATE 1-Ukraine crisis triggers Russia's biggest anti-Putin protest in two years

* Tens of thousands join rival pro-Kremlin and anti-war demos in Moscow

* Rallies comes a day before referendum on Crimea joining Russia

* Most Russians back President Putin's policy in Ukraine

By Maria Tsvetkova and Jason Bush

MOSCOW, March 15 (Reuters) - Russia saw the largest opposition protest in almost two years in Moscow on Saturday, as Muscovites took to the streets in their thousands to demonstrate both for and against President Vladimir Putin's policies in Ukraine.

Crimeans vote on Sunday on whether to reunite with Russia after pro-Russian forces took control of the peninsula, triggering the worst East-West confrontation since the Cold War.

Most Russians strongly back Putin's actions and see Crimea as rightfully part of Russia. But a minority are horrified, fearing that Putin is risking war with another Slavic country formerly seen as a brother nation.

Although smaller than protests that he faced after parliamentary elections in 2011, Saturday's anti-war rally, which witnesses said attracted around 30,000 people, is a sign that his intervention in Ukraine might provide a rallying point for an opposition movement that had run out of steam.

Since being re-elected president in 2012, Putin has worked to neutralise political opposition, mindful of the street protests that overthrew governments in Georgia and Ukraine in 2003 and 2004-5 - actions that help to explain his deep antipathy to the movement that toppled Ukraine's pro-Russian president, Viktor Yanukovich, last month.

On Sakharov Avenue, site of the first large anti-Putin rally in December 2011, when tens of thousands protested against electoral fraud, demonstrators waved Ukrainian and Russian flags as well as EU flags like those carried by pro-European demonstrators in Kiev's Maidan square.

"ASHAMED FOR RUSSIA"

The march appeared to be the largest opposition rally since June 2012, although police put the turnout at around 3,000.

"I am ashamed for Russia and our people," said publishing company employee Valentina Legonkova, 69, who was carrying a Ukrainian flag although she is Russian.

"We are behaving towards Ukraine like swine," she said. "We will soon be on the level of North Korea."

Some chanted "Glory to Ukraine, glory to the heroes!", a slogan also borrowed from Kiev, others "Down with Putin!", "No to war!", "No to fascism!" and "Russia without Putin!"

One placard read: "Hungary 1956, Czechoslovakia 1968, Ukraine 2014", likening Russia's actions to the Red Army's suppression of east European reform movements in the Cold War.

"My duty is to show support for the Ukrainian people in its desire to live independently from the dictatorship of the elder brother," said Moscow teacher Irina Seseikina.

The protest taps into a wider vein of discontent, strongest among the Moscow middle class, who are also appalled at rising corruption, political repression and censorship under Putin.

But so far, the Ukraine crisis and last month's spectacular Winter Olympics in Sochi have solidified broader support for Putin, whose increasingly nationalist and conservative agenda plays well among Russians nostalgic for the Soviet Union.

His approval rating now stands at about 70 percent. In a recent poll by the independent Levada Centre, two-thirds said they believed that not only Crimea but also mostly Russian-speaking eastern Ukraine were "in essence" Russian lands.

"AGAINST FASCISM"

In the two weeks since he received parliamentary backing to deploy troops in Ukraine, Russia has seen dozens of government-backed rallies supporting the "defence" of Crimea, while smaller unsanctioned anti-war protests have led to scuffles with police and dozens of arrests.

The largely state-controlled media have pushed the Kremlin's view of the revolution in Ukraine as an anti-constitutional coup by fascist extremists with Western backing.

In a rally on Saturday organised by a Russian Orthodox movement "in support of Crimea and against fascism", 15,000 gathered on Revolution Square near the Kremlin, according to police.

Accompanied by a brass band playing patriotic marches, the well organised demonstrators, some waving Soviet hammers and sickles, chanted "Crimea is Russia", "We defend our own!" and "No to fascism!"

"We want to say a firm 'no' to the fascist junta that came to power in Kiev and therefore we naturally want to support our comrades in Ukraine," said Pyotr, one of the protesters.

Another pro-Kremlin demonstrator, Captain Alexei Ryabtsev, said: "Sevastopol means for Russia and for the Russians much more than the Falklands mean for England. But England didn't give the Falklands up and went into a big war, right?"

Few of the anti-war marchers believed that their action would make a difference.

"These images are for the evening news, which will talk about a (subversive) 'fifth column'," said Alexander, a teacher who declined to give his last name.

[Tonz]

UPDATE 2-Russia proposes international "support group" on Ukraine
Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:20pm EDT


(Reuters) - Russia proposed on Monday creating an international "support group" to mediate in the Ukraine crisis but outlined terms that Kiev said were absolutely unacceptable and the West is unlikely to welcome.

In response to Western calls for what it terms a "contact group", Russia's Foreign Ministry suggested the "support group" could push for Ukraine to recognise the outcome of a referendum in which the Crimea region voted to join Russia.

The ministry also said the support group should urge Kiev to implement parts of a peace deal concluded by President Viktor Yanukovich and his opponents on Feb. 21, hours before he fled Kiev and one day before he was removed from power by parliament.

Moscow's initiative may be intended mainly to answer criticism abroad that it has not engaged sufficiently in diplomatic efforts to resolve the crisis in Ukraine. It did not explain the significance of the different term used.

Within hours Kiev criticised the suggestion.

"The statement of the Russian Foreign Ministry looks like an ultimatum," Ukrainian Foreign Ministry spokesman Yevhen Perebynis told the Interfax Ukraine news agency. "The position as set out is absolutely unacceptable for the Ukrainian side."

Both the United States and the European Union have imposed sanctions on Russians and Ukrainians seen as responsible for Russian forces' seizure of control in Crimea, where Russia's Black Sea Fleet has a base.

The statement did not say who might take part in the group, but said it should urge Ukraine to adopt a new constitution setting out broad powers for the country's regions and require Ukraine to uphold military and political neutrality.

This would imply greater power for Russian-speaking regions in the east and southeast of Ukraine, a move already promised by the Ukrainian authorities, and could be seen by Moscow as a way to prevent Ukraine joining the NATO defence alliance.

The Feb. 21 deal called for an investigation into violence in which dozens of people were killed during anti-government protests. The violence followed harsh police intervention but Moscow blames it on radical groups among the protesters and says the new leadership in Kiev has not investigated properly. (Reporting by Thomas Grove in Moscow and Ronald Popeski in Kiev, editing by Alissa de Carbonnel and Ralph Boulton)

[BabaRa]

I think this all ties into Sooz's post here: http://jandeane81.com/threads/2343-Ben-Fulford-March-17

Let's remember guys, each news media has their country's agenda that they're promoting. Read them all. Don't totally believe any of them. Try to pick up what's behind the agenda.

Same with Fulford, don't dismiss it all - don't believe it all. But here is one of the things he pointed out in his latest. I'll repeat my post from Sooz's above.

For me, the most important one is: (underlining is mine)

From Fulford:
"In any case, even as the cabal controlled corporate propaganda media
tries to distract everybody with lies over the situation in the Ukraine,
as well as speculating endlessly about the missing Malaysian airliner,
they are totally ignoring the defection from the cabal by the Gulf oil
countries led by Saudi Arabia."

If this is true and Middle Eastern oil is no longer available to the US things could change dramatically. No more oil from them - and Putin has already diminished the petro-dollar which brought in $$ to US by creating BRICS.

Read BF's full article (listed in post#1 by Sooz) to see how he comes to this conclusion.

Per BF:
"This means that the Federal Reserve Board regime in Washington D.C.
and their sister institution the European Central Bank are now being
isolated from the global community."

[Calz]

VT Gordon Duff's latest ... guess I will park it here (link only).

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/03...ks-in-ukraine/


Increasingly mind numbing how obvious the west (bankster driven) false flag plots are as well as how blatant the media shills have become.

I don't know how much of this latest article is true (Duff suggests a healthy bit of intentional disinfo to keep himself alive) ... but geez!!!

[Spiral]

Paris — As Russia absorbs Crimea and masses 60,000 troops on Ukraine’s border, is the West serious about sanctions against Moscow?

The best test could come this Tuesday, when the defense and foreign ministers of Russia and France are scheduled to meet for long-planned talks on relations between the two countries. French president François Hollande has already announced that “there will be sanctions Monday on visas and assets of a certain number of [Russian] individuals if there is no de-escalation.” But he absolutely must go further.



Three years ago, France signed a military contract worth $1.7 billion to build two advanced-technology Mistral-class helicopter carriers for Russia, with an option to build two more. The first carrier, Vladivostok, conducted its sea trials earlier this month and is set to arrive in Moscow later this year. A Russian crew is already being trained on the ship, currently berthed in the French port of Saint-Nazaire. A sister ship, Sebastopol — ironically named after the chief port of Crimea — is set for delivery to the Russian navy late in 2015.

The rest http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...aris-john-fund

This "sanctions" codswollop is not going to fly is it ?

[norman]

Here's a flashback to a recent time when Cameron and Putin were just thawing relations after the Alexander Litvinenko killing ( with radiation) in London.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o00S7W2KGQw

[BabaRa]

I feel this is a good discussion ( 3 varied opinions) on the Ukraine crisis. (link below) Charlies Rose on PBS discusses the situation with Ian Bremmer, President of Eurasia Group, Stephen Cohen, professor at Princeton Universities and Stephen Sestanovich professor at Columbia University and Sr.Fellow on Council on Foreign Relations.

Before you listen, really try to get yourself into a neutral position. IMO, the only hope for this world to change into the peaceful, harmonious place we all dream of - is for everyone to listen to the person we consider "the enemy" and try to see it from their perspective. Wars do not end wars - if they did - we would have been living in peace long ago. We all need to stop saber-rattling and look towards diplomacy. This planet has become a very small place. We are all interconnected, financially, militarily, etc. To live in peace, we must stop demonizing other leaders and countries. That doesn't mean we see them as perfect or without flaws or agendas - our leaders are also flawed and have agendas.

Who created this mess in Ukraine? The Russians believe the western world did in order to bring the Ukraine into Nato and therefore move western military bases even closer to Russia.
The western world believes Russia created it in order to grab Crimea and Ukraine back into their fold. WHO KNOWS for sure. Maybe the Ukrainians themselves created it in their divisiveness. . . .The fact remains - it's a mess.

Look at the middle east - out of control
Look at most of Africa - out of control
Look at what's going on in Venezuela - out of control

Can we afford to have the Ukraine become Iraq? - Instead of being mesmerized by the war drums that many politicians in US (Nato countries) seem to be beating - let us step back - and push toward negotiations at every level until a settlement is reached. (Wow! Barbara is pepped up this morning!)

http://www.charlierose.com/watch/60363136

[norman]

There is a scale difference between the "bash the Russians" case and the "bash the west" case.

The west is accusing Putin of risking all this for a tiddly little bit of territory.

Putin is accusing the west of risking all this for a strategic pincer grip on Russia.

I know I'm certain who's blowing gas.

http://www.charlierose.com/watch/60363136

Hi Barbara, that video was great - both parts. I'd never heard of Charlie Rose, I must keep an eye on this guy's interviews.

[Highland1]

Leaked recording of Ukraine leader: ’8 million Russians in the Ukraine must be killed with nuclear weapons’




Leaked recording of Ukraine leader: ’8 million russians in the Ukraine must be killed with nuclear weapons’
March 24, 2014 6:06 PM EDT SHARE :
Leaked recording of Ukraine leader: ’8 million russians in the Ukraine must be killed with nuclear weapons’
While the NSA is busy justifying its (spying of every American) its existence thanks to famous Moscow resident Edward Snowden, its Russian counterparts have been busy intercepting even more phone Ukrainian conversations

By Tyler Durden | ZeroHedge

After a month ago a leaked phone call between US assistant secretary of state Victoria Nuland and the US envoy to the Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt confirmed that it was the US that was pulling the strings in what was about to be a violent coup overthrowing Ukraine’s president Yanukovich, “someone” has just leaked another phone conversation, this time between parliamentarian Nestor Shufrych and former PM and ideological leader of the Ukraine “revolution” Yulia Tymoshenko and most probable future president of West Ukraine, in which Tymoshenko is makes the following threats, “It’s going too far! Bugger! We must grab arms and go whack those damn katsaps [a Ukrainian word used to refer to the Russians in a negative tone] together with their leader”, “I’ll use all my connections, I’ll raise the whole world – as soon as I’m able to – in order to make sure.. Bugger!.. not even scorched earth won’t remain where Russia stands” although all her empty threats collapse in the last sentence of the phone conversation in which she says, regarding the Crimea annexation, that “we are going to take it to the Hague International Criminal Court.” Good luck with that.

But the smoking gun, and where Putin once again shows just how masterful of a chess player he is, is the following statement by Tymoshenko, after asked, rhetorically, by her counterparty, “what should we do now with the 8 million Russians that stayed in Ukraine. They are outcasts“… to which she replies: “They must be killed with nuclear weapons.”

http://intellihub.com/leaked-recordi...clear-weapons/

Russ