Why Are They Killing us and Polluting our Planet?

[Seikou-Kishi]

I loved your entire post SK, (your background sounds so interesting) but the quote above truly stood out for me. . . .

And after I read it the word that rang in my ears was: Intention

Oh, intention definitely counts. For a stark contrast, take the idea of somebody who almost runs into you with their car. If they're just negligent, they probably didn't want to do it. If they're trying to kill you, chances are they'll try again. It's a kind of "metavariable" in that although it doesn't aggravate or mitigate anything that happens, it has implications for the possible "repeatability" of attempts. What's the chance that somebody could nearly kill you twice by accident? If they nearly kill you because they tried and failed, chances are they'll try again and again until they're stopped.

[modwiz]

I loved your entire post SK, (your background sounds so interesting) but the quote above truly stood out for me. . . .

And after I read it (the entire post that is) the word that rang in my ears was: Intention

Yes, it is a powerful quote and a very good measure. I like it.

[Calabash]

This thread has taken so many twists and turns but all are relevant . . . . . . . .

The thing about animals . . . . when my children were small and I was still married my husband would not allow us to have pets. I went along with it because we were both working all day and I thought it wasn't fair to leave animals on their own all day. But my husband (asian) felt that having domestic cats and dogs was a form of disrespect to domesticise them and I understood what he meant, although I had been brought up with (much loved) pets as a child. When he left, however, we had five cats; not all at once I hasten to explain. We took Jet in because my daughter intervened when she came across some children playing football with a small black kitten. I said that she could only stay for the night. Sigh . . . . . and then one by one the others arrived, all rescue cats of one kind or another. They all had different personalities and each one had unique relationships with individual family members. Yes, we have diluted their "animalness" and reduced them to living a life of luxury and indolence, but they have definitely brought out the very best in us.

A few years ago my job took me to a livestock farm in Ongar, Essex. While I was waiting I took a walk past a barn and half a dozen young bullocks rushed to the door to see who was approaching, their breath forming clouds in the cold air. I remember that in that split second we seemed to communicate on a soul level and I "saw" them as individuals (I know this sounds fanciful - I do apologise), on the same level as my cats. That was harsh and I never ate meat for ages afterwards.

And this is my relationship with meat. Something like the above will put me off for weeks but eventually I will go back to eating meat again. I am such a hypocrite and it doesn'tmake me feel any better to admit it.

[Eelco]

I am such a hypocrite and it doesn'tmake me feel any better to admit it.

With Love
Eelco

[BabaRa]

This thread has taken so many twists and turns but all are relevant . . . . . . . .

The thing about animals . . . . when my children were small and I was still married my husband would not allow us to have pets. I went along with it because we were both working all day and I thought it wasn't fair to leave animals on their own all day. But my husband (asian) felt that having domestic cats and dogs was a form of disrespect to domesticise them and I understood what he meant, although I had been brought up with (much loved) pets as a child. When he left, however, we had five cats; not all at once I hasten to explain. We took Jet in because my daughter intervened when she came across some children playing football with a small black kitten. I said that she could only stay for the night. Sigh . . . . . and then one by one the others arrived, all rescue cats of one kind or another. They all had different personalities and each one had unique relationships with individual family members. Yes, we have diluted their "animalness" and reduced them to living a life of luxury and indolence, but they have definitely brought out the very best in us.

A few years ago my job took me to a livestock farm in Ongar, Essex. While I was waiting I took a walk past a barn and half a dozen young bullocks rushed to the door to see who was approaching, their breath forming clouds in the cold air. I remember that in that split second we seemed to communicate on a soul level and I "saw" them as individuals (I know this sounds fanciful - I do apologise), on the same level as my cats. That was harsh and I never ate meat for ages afterwards.

And this is my relationship with meat. Something like the above will put me off for weeks but eventually I will go back to eating meat again. I am such a hypocrite and it doesn'tmake me feel any better to admit it.

This reminds me of a story: My son had severe food allergies so couldn't eat many things. (Later found he was mostly allergic to what they were putting in the food, rather than the food itself.) ..... I degress ... at 5 yrs of age found a butcher who could provide us with products without any antibiotics, etc. . . So now my son was having his first hamburger, and since he felt he had always been denied, he was eating with gusto. . I remembered that his teacher had just made an announcement to parents: that children didn't know where food came from (we were city folks) and when she asked the class where eggs came from they all said the grocery store - and she encouraged us to make the connection.

So as this youngster was eating so happily I said: Do you know that hamburger comes from cows?. . .his face immediately turned white and he wailed, "I'm eating a cow?" (He always loved all animals) and he pushed the plate away. . . Then you could see his little mind working as he looked at the hamburger, and he finally said: "This isn't a mother cow or a baby cow, is it Mom? This is a robber cow, right! . . . and I lied, "Right". . so now he could finish his special meal without guilt.

I always thought how interesting it was that one so young could find a way to justify what they wanted so quickly. (I also laughed at the thought of a cow going in and robbing a bank).

P.S. Eating meat has always been a complicated subject for me. I do eat it, but not often, usually more sprinkled through a casserole, but I must admit that I do enjoy it.

[Calabash]

This reminds me of a story: My son had severe food allergies so couldn't eat many things. (Later found he was mostly allergic to what they were putting in the food, rather than the food itself.) .....

I think this section of your post partially addresses your original question Barbara, and that is the number of additives in our food. If there is a reaction, the tendency is to treat the symptom rather than the cause. The number of people who are killed with prescription drugs each year is frightening and doctors are rarely prosecuted. Likewise, animals are given any number of antibiotics to counter the symptoms they suffer through not eating the right food. As to why, it's all about money - it always comes back to money . . . .

[norman]

As to why, it's all about money - it always comes back to money . . . .

I'm not so sure about that, in fact I'll even say it NOT about money.

The people we tend to assume are motivated by money are really only stooges for the very people who know absolutely that money is a sick joke. We'd have to assume that the stooges are acting alone to believe it's all about money.

Ok, from the point of view of many of them, it probably does look like it's all about the money, but, we should get our focus right before throwing our analytical effort down that stupid drain.

It's perfectly clear to me that the shots are called at the same level as the level where "money" is alchemically mustered out of thin air.

From what you state, and so many do state, this simply does not compute.

How on earth can it make sense that the people who create 'money' are doing all this **** to make money ?

[Tonz]

the theme of domestic pets is always to the word, ''domestic'',very few pets are free,have a say in the family ,even though members may argue for there rights with in that organism,especially my children.
They must adapt to our needs or rhythm that has been created , they must in there own way adapt the best they can . Most do!, but not only that, most give much more than what they receive.
You know that they are aware and attentive for any changes and are sensitive to the human behavior , as they must see us as an unstable lot that have so many ups and downs ,so many changes to there moods ,we must be a lot of folk that need constant giving and a demonstrations of love every day .It my be given with that surprised expression and that waging tale ,to see you entering your home , as if it were years since they had seen there best friend,even though you had just gone up the road to buy some milk for your morning coffee.
we have almost always had pets, and all if I remember right had been abandoned , Always felt the social logic that we can provide a better life for them ,but It wasn't till I learned ,especially from my children, that it has been they have given the better life to us.
I miss them , those that have gone ,and the one that is still in Europe , Her name is Luna,and i miss her as much as my magnificent daughter ,I am glad that they are together.


I'll stop getting sentimental now and go towards the other discussion about the consumption of animals.


I was raised to hunt,fish ect. Mostly It was rabbit ,as the introduction of rabbit to Australia was as you all know , turned into enormous plagues at times, so the hunting of rabbit was fair game.We only used ferrets, and nets .There were many a time that 20 to 40 rabbits were taken home and consumed , much to the delight of friends or and other relatives. Also for my parents with a young family of 7 ,rabbit was on the menu frequently. The skills of killing the rabbit quickly by using a simple karate chop behind its neck was for the easiest and quickest method without using a knife or a club , as it was fairly instant. The lessons of skinning and cleaning were also for all family members ,we learnt to do it all quite easily, And also the cooking.We all from a young age, learnt the meaning of the cycle .

Looking back ,the Lack of sensibility that was present , or the non association with the animals as /with personality was necessary in order to hunt. Also the lack of respect was never present .If they were a little to small they were not taken and released.
Small mercy for a family of rabbits terrorized by the hunt.!

Years later, one of my bro's and I were talking about those days with some friends and they asked us to arrange a day to show them how, we were in our early 20's by then and hadn't hunted since we were kids.So we arranged it, we borrowed some ferrets and nets from an old neighbor and off we went with about 6 others and we returned to the hilly fields that were perfect to find rabbits. We set up a number of times and showed them how to expect the rabbits to try and excape the nets and to be ready when the land rumbled as they were on there way. To our complete discomfort and disgust they took the sacrificing as a joke and treated the catch with complete disrespect and performed a number of notrocities towards these poor souls that we had provoked to there doom.We couldn't believe there behavior. My bro and I looked at each other and said we didn't come here for this, this is not what it is about,we acknowledged that they didnt get it and there wasn't a way to stop them , we walked away from them and left them there. Much to there protest , we left them there and cut our ties with them.
Mates are mates , but it does not mean the mates are free game for ya-hoo-ism .Haven't hunted since , except for fishing, as there isnt a direct need for me to do so.

Although it is good to know that if necessary one could hunt small game quite easily , rabbit, bird, small boar,snake,and roos ect. Hope that it never gets that way ,but who knows maybe it could someday.

Survival hunting is the difference between cultivating hunting.We really do not need it.
We all know the studies that show quite clearly that we can reach quite easily the protean and all minerals and vitimans with a balanced vegetarian diet .

To go further ,If the area that the U.S. alone uses ,all the land that they use produce beef ,and turned into cultivations of fruit and vegetables there would be enough to feed the world , a very bold statement but the numbers add up.!
It goes to show that we give to much importance to the cultivating and costs towards the production of meat compared to the inexpensive productions of alternatives to meat food sources ,that can provide us with all that we need.

And yes its all about business from the harvest into the huge social mind set that has decided that we cannot replace meat .When you talk to the majority they will be unswayed by the evidence and clear answers towards the issue.In the end we are all socially influenced to the point from an inbreeding mind set.

[Eelco]

So this question has me wondering..
Why are "they" destroying and polluting?

My initial jerk was blame the PTW. but are they? from there it seems that to come to an answer we carefully start exploring the energys involved and make the connection to ourselves with "them" as a mirror. Opening that particular box of pandora leaves me gobsmacked. As in my mind i've come to realize that through my own fears, cowardess and lack of wisdom. I am probbably still part of the problem allowing this killing and polluting to exist.

Besides that. There seems to be nothing in my toolbox but bandaids that I can use to comfort my symptoms a little, but nothing substantial enough to help find a cure.

With Love
Eelco

[Calabash]

I don't know the answer any more than you do Eelco, but the fact that collectively we don't actually DO anything is the common factor running through all the threads on this - and other - forums. It's not lack of interest, or will, or caring . . . or even unity. So what is it? We are all just going with the flow. Isn't that what we're supposed to do? Is it - or isn't it . . . . . ?

[Eelco]

So what does it mean that collectively we are unable to find an answer.

just thinking out loud here.
Maybe we aren't ment to do so collectively? which would raise questions about the consensus reality most here adhere to.

with love
Eelco

(i am on purpose avoiding the PTW as culprits here)

[Fred Steeves]

So what does it mean that collectively we are unable to find an answer.

just thinking out loud here.
Maybe we aren't ment to do so collectively? which would raise questions about the consensus reality most here adhere to.

Bingo!!! Until I begin to see even a *shred* of evidence to the contrary this is a solo journey, not a collective one. People complete this journey and move on when they are good and ready to, while the rest go about their business as well. Simply put, there is no mass awakening or enlightenment occurring. It has never been this way, and it will never be that way. Each in their own good time, and all is well with that.

A pretty bold statement? Yes, but I did it anyway LOL.



Cheers,

Fred

[BabaRa]

Bingo!!! Until I begin to see even a *shred* of evidence to the contrary this is a solo journey, not a collective one. People complete this journey and move on when they are good and ready to, while the rest go about their business as well. Simply put, there is no mass awakening or enlightenment occurring. It has never been this way, and it will never be that way. Each in their own good time, and all is well with that.

A pretty bold statement? Yes, but I did it anyway LOL.



Cheers,

Fred

Always a complicated subject for me.

On the one hand life does appear to be a "Choose your own adventure" journey.

On the other hand medical researchers i.e. Bruce Lipton tell us that when a cell in our bodies decides not to cooperate with the other cells: This is called cancer.

Perhaps from these two statements one can come to the conclusion that: Yes, our journey is separate, but it should be done in a cooperative way with each other and nature. Before one acts or speaks, one should consider the feelings of the group and not just one's own will.

[Calz]

Good to recognize personal responsibility (at least to a degree) for co-creating our "reality".

Don't forget the meditation studies suggesting when enough people get together with similar intent they can have a measurable difference on world events.


... as for the central issues of killing humanity and (essentially) Gaia as well with pollution and searching for reasons why ... I expect there are a myriad of reasons since we are essentially dealing with a myriad of "groups" ... not just one "they".

Correct???


Transdimensionals ... ya ... one size fits all???

Me thinks not.


Human "controllers"???

Clearly similar. How many factions with conflicting objectives lay within that "subset" of "they"???


Complex issues and when trying to go deeper to consider "timelines" and "parallel realities" it truly becomes unmanageable for most human linear minds.