The Ability of critical thinking and debate

[Vitalux]

Often when I go to a forum I like to use critical thinking along with analytical reasoning.
This has often resulted in me being kicked out or unwelcome in other forums.



It's my observation that most folks, as a collective in forums, only wish to hear and see, only what they wish to hear and see.
Rather or not, that what they do not wish to hear and see, is truth, it is completely irrelevant.
They would rather see you die, rather than change their belief.

History has proved that over and over as rulers soon discovered that the truth, was the last thing the people wanted to hear.


I enjoy debate.
An interesting observation is rarely , if ever, have I witnessed someone change their view point while engrossed in a debate.
Why is that? Would it not only be to reason that debate allows us to study a different perspective to our own?

An interesting observation as well is that most forums suffer from a high degree of self narcissism.
Meaning that the people of that collective ( forum) feel that due to ones membership in that collective (forum) it quantifies, truth, assention, enlightenment, or delusions of grander that they are better than other collectives.

Every single thing I mention about human behavior I too am just as guilty and include myself.


It is also an observation in humans that we are so emotional.
When mistakes are made, we look for someone to punish.
Yet, isn't it only through our mistakes that we learn?


So my friends if you see me post something, and your first reaction is anger or shock, please try and look beyond the peas and potatoes and understand that we do not all think the same. Part of me posting that way to help me understand that as well.
I was never one to "go along, to get along". Perhaps the world has too many of those in my opinion.
I have been wrong probably more than I have been right. However it was by considering other people's views and opinions that allowed me to discover this.
Therefore I enjoy the spirit of "The Ability of critical thinking and debate"

I hope you all understand where I am coming from as I trust that

1. We don't eat our young here

nor,

2. Do we bury the old because they are saying too many things we do not wish to hear.


( Everything I am discussing I am talking about in a spirit of brotherhood)


Please share your thought as well please...

[BabaRa]

I personally like to hear what others think, whether I agree with it or not is another matter, but I always consider it as a possibility.

This is part of what I posted under this thread: http://jandeane81.com/threads/1508-T...=7590#post7590 Post #7. You might want to take a peek at the thread.

". . really listen to what everyone else is saying. Rather than negate it, find a way to build on it or at least explore it as an option. . .because there is someone smarter than us - and that's all of us together."

[KosmicKat]

Willingness to question a cherished belief is vital to exploring the truth. Seeing that I am wrong and admitting that I am wrong, to the extent of changing a belief, is challenging.

[Spiral]

Often when I go to a forum I like to use critical thinking along with analytical reasoning.
This has often resulted in me being kicked out or unwelcome in other forums.

It's my observation that most folks, as a collective in forums, only wish to hear and see, only what they wish to hear and see.
Rather or not, that what they do not wish to hear and see, is truth, it is completely irrelevant.
They would rather see you die, rather than change their belief.

There are two points here that jump out at me, the first relates to forums that have a "leader" or "figurehead", this always means you are in a cult type situation, so going outside the boundaries of their doctrine is always forbidden even if said doctrine is not clearly written down (in the most effective cults it isn't)

The second is that there is often an "aggregating" effect where a common meme / paradigm is worked out over time & through fairly standard human behaviour & "magnetism" that can end up with a particular world view.

Its the lack of these two things here on TOT that make it unique IMO.

Both of these aspects rely on the strange phenomena of human belief, which is worth studying in its own right, I learnt a lot from Eric Hoffers book "True Believer".

Personally I think beliefs are to do with the individuals need to justify their own existence relative to another human sickness/ phenomena, status.

[Calabash]

Giving opinion for debate is one thing, but to introduce clearly offensive material in the guise of bringing constructive debate - when the motive is destructive reaction - is not.

Take the subject of paedophiles, for instance. It exists, definitely, and many articles are posted on the forum about it. However, we do not actually need to see the abuse or hear the details to come to the same conclusion as those who would prefer to have it all out there. I for one am very vociferous about paedophilia - mostly because we as the public do eff all about it when we could do so much collectively - and our children are our future. However, I am very much aware that not all people feel the same way, and so I allow for that in what I post.

We should not be aggressive, or rude, or offensive imo and if a person is all or any of the three then they should not whinge about being taken down, regardless of how valid they feel their opinion is.

[lovelypeace]

At TOT, we try to respect people, regardless of who and what we are.

Most people try to make logical arguments and flesh out their thoughts when they say things.

My 2014 goal (not resolution....I hate resolutions) is not to get sucked into so many stupid arguments. Trying to be logical with some people isn't worth my time and effort anymore.

[mojo]

ty 4 the message ...threads are alot like this...

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL6tv_jerAk

[Spiral]

Trying to be logical with some people isn't worth my time and effort anymore.

Its like this guy says;

[Vitalux]

Giving opinion for debate is one thing, but to introduce clearly offensive material in the guise of bringing constructive debate - when the motive is destructive reaction - is not.

Interesting, and subjective too, depending on whose viewpoint disturbing information is viewed from.

Often when things which are hidden in the closet, are brought into the light, upsets most people.
Trying to absolve ones reactions from emotional responses can be quite difficult.

After all, what is the best defense for us to shut out what we don't wish to listen to during debate, is blaming others for causing our anger.

I think we progress more spiritually when we do not keep things hidden inside closets.

At times I certainly will introduce clearly offensive material in the guise of bringing constructive debate.
Simply because, in most cases, it exists only in an individual's mind the offensiveness.

At one time, it was clearly offensive for black human beings to sit on the front of the bus, however someone had to introduce clearly offensive material in the guise of bringing constructive debate which allowed progress in the human society.

[BabaRa]

At TOT, we try to respect people, regardless of who and what we are. . . . .

Trying to be logical with some people isn't worth my time and effort anymore.

I agree. And in truth, when I look back at my own evolution, what I thought was logical at one point in my life - is very different now - and I assume that will continue, so why bother arguing with my old self!

I don't remember who said it but this comes to mind: Would you rather be right or in harmony. I now choose Harmony.

Merry Christmas to all.

[Calabash]

changed mind .

[Sparky]

There are two points here that jump out at me, the first relates to forums that have a "leader" or "figurehead", this always means you are in a cult type situation, so going outside the boundaries of their doctrine is always forbidden even if said doctrine is not clearly written down (in the most effective cults it isn't)

The second is that there is often an "aggregating" effect where a common meme / paradigm is worked out over time & through fairly standard human behaviour & "magnetism" that can end up with a particular world view.

Its the lack of these two things here on TOT that make it unique IMO.

How true! Forums with a "leader" or "figurehead" are always "geared and steered". I've been a reader of many forums with absolutely no interest in joining. It was obvious to me a hidden agenda existed for their cult to follow as they proclaim their authority on expertise/experience/knowledge. I also observed cult forums had select members who personally attack someone when they deviated from their agenda to bring them back to the fold...similar to a sheep dog herding sheep.

This is the first forum I joined. I noted a unique respect for our world differences and genuine interest in sharing tidbits each of us learn because of our varied culture and interests. I enjoy that.

Just tonight I learned something on another thread from Fred's post about Bruce Lipton and another guy who sold out their huge following to the UN's NWO. Bummer! Could the cult forums be up to the same trick? Who knows? Bait and switch is an old game that works.

Vitalux, here at TOT, only two things are necessary. An open mind and open heart.