January 6 2021 Insurrection

[Aragorn]

Okay Frank, nothing I said was personal, no need to come out swinging like I just kicked your dog (and no need to go sharing out of context mod room snippets, of which I no longer have access to. If you want to go public into the ins and outs of why I stepped down as a mod, as it now obviously concerned what I took to be the incessant bullying of Vern of which I no longer want to be directly associated with, we can go there).

That is not why you said you were stepping down, Fred. You said it was because we don't allow propaganda to be posted here, which supposedly went in against the fact that freedom of speech was sacred to you.

That is not to say that you did not also accuse me of bullying Vern — which I wasn't and still am not doing — but that was not the reason why you said you were stepping down. As the matter of fact — and here it is — you stated that as far as you were concerned, you were tired of Vern and you couldn't care less if we were to kick him out.

The very fact that we have not kicked Vern out and that we're still trying to talk some sense into him should then also be the evidence of why what I am doing here on this thread — and what I've done on other threads in the past — is not bullying. I am not yelling at him, and I am not insulting him by calling him ugly names or falsely accusing him. I am simply confronting Vern with his naiveté, and explaining to him why his approach and his opinions are all wrong, as any good teacher would and should with pigheaded students that the teacher doesn't want to give up on as a lost cause and a waste of energy.

To add: Frank, I tried going through the news link you left, translate works just fine, but I couldn't find any actual hard hitting news. Any helpful tips would be appreciated.
https://www.vrt.be/nl/over-de-vrt/nieuws/

That's not how you get to the news, but I guess it would be more difficult for you to follow the same avenue as myself due to you living in the US.

The way I get to it is as follows... I have a bookmark to the Google News page for Belgium — it also covers international news, of course, but Google groups the topics together (as headlines only) of which there is a version in the regional language — they already filter the results in advance (including the weather forecast) based upon your geolocation, which in turn they derive from your IP address — and I am logged into Google, so I can set my preferences on account of language and news sources I want to see, as well as news sources I want to block.

From that overview — which is already filtered because I am blocking certain sources — I then select (some of) the topics offered by vrt.be, and once I've gotten to one or several such articles, I can read up on other topics covered by the news section of vrt.be. Underneath every article, there are four vertically arranged links (with photos) to similarly themed articles (from vtr.be itself, but possibly already a few weeks old), and at the bottom of the page, there is a horizontally scrolling list of links (without photos) with (sometimes abridged) headlines of today's other news articles from vrt.be itself.

Occasionally, I will also pick an article from another news source that appears in the Google News overview, and most commonly, that will either be for a scientific article from reputed science websites, or a current news topic from a politically fairly neutral newspaper with an online presence, but most of their articles are hidden behind a paywall. You do however still get to see an introductory paragraph, and in the cases where I look at such articles, that introductory paragraph is all I need, because then it usually pertains to something that has happened regionally and that I didn't know about yet, such as an accident, a murder, or some other local event that isn't being covered by vrt.be.

I am being very selective even among the headlines that I allow Google News to show me, because there are some that I simply cannot seem to block, mostly because they are from smaller news outlets that are corporately tied to one of the larger media groups. Among such articles/headlines are all of the stuff to do with sports — mostly soccer, bicycle races and tennis — as well as typical gossipy women's magazines, such as Royalty Watchers, fashion stuff, et al.

Google News does not allow me to block those, so I have to wade through the list of headlines and mentally ignore all of that junk until I come across a vrt.be link that could potentially interest me — I don't read all of their stuff either, because I'm not interested in the gender identity issues, private life issues or fashion whims of celebrities (including politicians and YouTubers), or in whatever riot any particular politician has caused again. I'm not even interested in the whole political bickering circus, or in election polls, or whatever. I also block tracking cookies, which means that if an article directly links to a YouTube video, a Facebook post or a Twitter message, then those do not show up in my browser, and instead I see a box that reads something along the lines of "The above content contains a link to a YouTube/Facebook/Twitter/whatever article, which we cannot show you because you have disabled third-party content in your browser."

Things I do read up on are international politics — although the war in Ukraine has already begun losing any interest to me because we all know what it's really all about, and that it's still going to go on for years — and upon certain ongoing murder investigations, the wave of crime in Antwerp (which is currently in the middle of an open war between drug cartels), changes in the law that could have a direct effect on people such as myself, important financial news, and other such local-to-Belgium things.

I do not watch anything from so-called influencers — may piss be upon them — and I don't follow anyone on Twitter, nor am I on Facebook. The only politically-tinted channel I follow on YouTube is Abby Martin's Empire Files, of which I don't necessarily watch everything either, although I will generally watch most of it. Everything else I follow on YouTube is about fast cars, musical instruments and gear, as well as science lectures and a couple of cover bands that regularly put out new music videos.

Another difference is that I'm using an actual desktop computer with a 27" screen in 1920 x 1080 resolution, in stark contrast to Vern, who only uses his phone. This allows me a lot more freedom of navigation, selection and cross-checking.

[Lord Sidious]

Fuckin ell.............handbags at 4 paces..................

[Fred Steeves]

Okay, if we're sticking to the side pieces of parsley in lieu of the main dish, so be it.

That is not why you said you were stepping down, Fred. You said it was because we don't allow propaganda to be posted here, which supposedly went in against the fact that freedom of speech was sacred to you.

That is not to say that you did not also accuse me of bullying Vern — which I wasn't and still am not doing — but that was not the reason why you said you were stepping down. As the matter of fact — and here it is — you stated that as far as you were concerned, you were tired of Vern and you couldn't care less if we were to kick him out.

Unless you want to release the whole transcript, of which I have no longer have access to, this is a moot point and totally uncool to be cherry picking minus any context. Apparently you think there's some good gotchas in there so do it.

That's not how you get to the news, but I guess it would be more difficult for you to follow the same avenue as myself due to you living in the US.

The way I get to it is as follows...

Eh, that all sounded a bit complicated to delve into. If they're anywhere near as reputable as Wikipedia though, that's good enough for me.

[Emil El Zapato]

Aianawa only uses his phone, gawd the thought of that is a straight up nightmare. I have a relatively good desktop computer that is an extra and I think I have a couple of extra monitors as well, if he wants them...

[donk]

I logged back on cuz of Aragorn’s masterful handling of Verne’s bullshit, beautiful writing and description of reality. I haven’t always agreed with everything you say (the way I totally do in this thread), or honestly was as impressed with your writing a few years back as I am now…you getting good, man…I had to let you know

C’mon, Fred…nothing I read seemed in any way as personal as you are portraying it. You are better than this (I hoped), no? The. Again, I logged off when I saw you seriously considering Bobby Jr., watching you turn back (politically) Right crushed me and took away all desire of being involved in this joint…that I saw as a place where a couple voices I liked to hear (you, Frank, wind, OG and Sid) occasionally broke through Vern’s ridiculous fascist propaganda occasionally.

Anyway, that’s it. I wanted to praise Frank. Especially in his appeal for Fred to check his “self reflection” a bit

[Aragorn]

Okay, if we're sticking to the side pieces of parsley in lieu of the main dish, so be it.

The main dish is the alt-right insurrection in the United States of America of the 6th of January 2021, unless you feel that the main dish should be how I am supposedly bullying Vern — emphasis on "supposedly". Hence, "sticking it to the man". We could talk about that too, but I believe I've already said everything that needed to be said on that topic, and it is not what this thread is about.

As for the information sources, if you really think there is any validity in any of the junk Vern posts here — which is just about as credible as what Ria and her ilk posted here at the time, except that Ria was obsessed with satanic pedophiles instead of with all things alt-right — then I guess the conversation is over.

Unless you want to release the whole transcript, of which I have no longer have access to, this is a moot point and totally uncool to be cherry picking minus any context. Apparently you think there's some good gotchas in there so do it.

I would have to dig for it, because I didn't exactly bookmark the page in my browser. And it's not important, unless you really do want to make a point of it.

Eh, that all sounded a bit complicated to delve into. If they're anywhere near as reputable as Wikipedia though, that's good enough for me.

I have explained how they work higher up the thread, and I have also mentioned that they are very Woke™. But that is easily filtered out. I don't care about their opinions; I care about the facts, and they do list the facts with great accuracy, as well as that they also point out whatever misinformation and disinformation is going round, which they fact-check.

The only thing they really show any partiality in is whenever it concerns something LGBTQ+-related. In a way it's weird, because in and of itself, the state-sponsored news network doesn't have anything to do with LGBTQ+. But I did also explain that, having been a completely state-owned organization in the past, they do have a mildly left-wing bias, and especially so on account of LGBTQ+, given that many of them are gay, and nowadays also trans or whatever, and Belgium currently does happen to have a transgender federal vice-prime-minister, who can always count on their pictures being printed out much bigger than those of any other politician (and multiple different ones on the same page) whenever a particular article involves said vice-prime-minister.

They also like emphasizing that said individual is a "she", by repeatedly phrasing their sentences so that they can use the pronoun "she" several times in a row. And to anyone with a modicum of psychological insight, it will become abundantly clear that the person who wrote the article is a neurotic, and quite possibly gay, bi, trans, non-binary or whatever themselves. I must admit that I haven't really been paying any attention to the names of the individual authors of the articles, because — again — I'm only interested in facts, not in gender (or other) ideologies.

But anyway, that's about the only thing they show any neuroticism in. On account of everything else, they are impartial, and they will for instance also say that this and that was reported by Ukraine or by Israel, but that it could not be verified by neutral observers, and that both countries (and their adversaries) are engaged in propaganda wars.

They're neutral enough for me, and I am still capable of using my own brain to put things into perspective. That's good enough for me.

---

Aianawa only uses his phone, gawd the thought of that is a straight up nightmare. I have a relatively good desktop computer that is an extra and I think I have a couple of extra monitors as well, if he wants them...

I do believe that Vern owns a laptop, or at any rate, he used to use a Windows machine when connecting to the forum in the past. But lately I only see him connecting by way of a phone anymore.

---

I logged back on cuz of Aragorn’s masterful handling of Verne’s bullshit, beautiful writing and description of reality. I haven’t always agreed with everything you say (the way I totally do in this thread), or honestly was as impressed with your writing a few years back as I am now…you getting good, man…I had to let you know

C’mon, Fred…nothing I read seemed in any way as personal as you are portraying it. You are better than this (I hoped), no? The. Again, I logged off when I saw you seriously considering Bobby Jr., watching you turn back (politically) Right crushed me and took away all desire of being involved in this joint…that I saw as a place where a couple voices I liked to hear (you, Frank, wind, OG and Sid) occasionally broke through Vern’s ridiculous fascist propaganda occasionally.

Anyway, that’s it. I wanted to praise Frank. Especially in his appeal for Fred to check his “self reflection” a bit

Thank you for the support, Phil. And it's good to see you back here in the Shire.

[Fred Steeves]

There's a guy on Facebook, an old friend - but I simply can't reply to him concerning the Israel/Palestine situation any more because the goal posts get moved every time I do. That's what I feel like here, but I'll try, yet again...

The main dish is the alt-right insurrection in the United States of America of the 6th of January 2021, unless you feel that the main dish should be how I am supposedly bullying Vern

That's precisely what I did in a previous post Frank, point toward "the main dish" and away from Vern. Remember?

Part 1 - This was more just to you. Leaving any mention of Vern out of the picture.

Part 2 - Concerning the forum in general. Leaving any mention of Vern out of the picture.

And the meat of the main dish which is still being ignored:

Now if we want to just keep it to 1/6, sure the Trump gang didn't go to the Capitol that day to hold hands and sing Kumbaya, but evidence is going to continue mounting that they were also walking into a sting operation. To what extent? We don't know yet, but one hell of a lot more went on that day that wasn't covered by that ridiculous "January 6th Commission".



Funny thing. I mentioned to Mrs. Steeves the other day that gun to my head, I'd vote for Trump over Biden's handlers. Why? It's pretty simple and straight forward, IMO the lesser of two evils there is voting for potential civil war, over potential WW3 that these current sons of bitches are pushing to the brink of no return.

The odds of surviving a civil war are much better, and at least it would be contained here in house like a bottled up biohazard - at least sparing everyone else.

Trump and the alt right are not the only biohazard in town, perhaps not even the most lethal overall...

And then to reiterate, yet again, my overall point:

Well that’s a shame. In a time when world events are rivaling those of the 1960’s, possibly even surpassing, it’s become fashionable to-

Become more of a Top 40 format

Scale way back on the research

Not debate or defend one’s positions

Then to the mod room conversation. You brought it up, not me.

I would have to dig for it, because I didn't exactly bookmark the page in my browser. And it's not important, unless you really do want to make a point of it.

Again, I logged off when I saw you seriously considering Bobby Jr., watching you turn back (politically) Right crushed me and took away all desire of being involved in this joint…

Ah hell Phil, busted you got me dead to rights, another closeted right winger exposed.

Of course that was then, and this is now as things have changed. But at that time, a quick reminder of those right wing values he was expressing/exposing:

CIA led coups around the world
The US creation of ISIS with resulting mass refugee crisis heading north into Europe.
The war in Syria.
The war in Iraq.
He wants to break up the CIA.
Says Russia won't lose because it's existential to them.
Believes the CIA killed his father and uncle.

He blames the CIA for dirty deeds around the world, blames them for the murder of his father and uncle, and is essentially saying he's coming after them. Wow!

Has everyone who thanked that OP also been exposed as right wingers?

[Aragorn]

Now if we want to just keep it to 1/6, sure the Trump gang didn't go to the Capitol that day to hold hands and sing Kumbaya, but evidence is going to continue mounting that they were also walking into a sting operation. To what extent? We don't know yet, but one hell of a lot more went on that day that wasn't covered by that ridiculous "January 6th Commission".

I don't believe for a minute that it would have been a sting operation. What was very clear however was that Donald Trump refused to call back his bloodhounds — knowing full well what they were doing — simply because he was silently hoping they would succeed in helping him get back on the throne.

Funny thing. I mentioned to Mrs. Steeves the other day that gun to my head, I'd vote for Trump over Biden's handlers. Why? It's pretty simple and straight forward, IMO the lesser of two evils there is voting for potential civil war, over potential WW3 that these current sons of bitches are pushing to the brink of no return.

The odds of surviving a civil war are much better, and at least it would be contained here in house like a bottled up biohazard - at least sparing everyone else.

Trump and the alt right are not the only biohazard in town, perhaps not even the most lethal overall...

Riku and I have been talking about this in the mod room yesterday, so I will loosely paraphrase what I said there. I do not think that there would be any civil war if Donald Trump wins the elections, but rather the opposite, if he loses the elections, and even worse, if he were to have to go to jail over one or all of his various crimes — the charges of sedition being the most likely nail in the coffin. Although it should also be mentioned that there was another coup in the US in the 1930s, involving Prescott Bush and the entire military-industrial complex, and although they were all tried and found guilty, none of them had to go to prison or even pay a fine. So the chances that Trump can get away with a "free out of jail" card are very real.

Nevertheless, whether he goes to the slammer or not, I believe that the scenario of the 6th of January 2021 might get repeated in one form or another if Trump loses the 2024 elections again, because he will once again claim that the elections were stolen from him, and his cronies are all still unconditionally backing him. They still believe that the 2020 elections were indeed stolen from him. And by the same token, if he wins the 2024 elections, then his cronies will be standing down, resting fully in the confidence that their Orange Jesus™ is safely back in charge. We might even see the return of QAnon.

And any which way you turn it, Trump also heavily supports Israel, just as Biden does and as Obama did — and he's eager for a confrontation with China too. The USA will eternally be loyal to Israel, and the US imperialist agenda will carry on as usual regardless of who's in the White House. That has already been the case since the end of World War II, now almost 80 years ago, and lots of presidents from both parties have come and gone in that time.

Likewise, NATO as a whole is already sufficiently gung ho by now to carry on with its support of Ukraine, so that's not going to stop either . And of course, Vlad the Impaler™ isn't going to back off from his end either, unless he were to die in the meantime — rumor has it that he's got cancer, although nobody here in the West knows that for certain. But even then, whoever succeeds him might be of the same or an even worse persuasion.

I could be wrong, but I don't think World War III will be happening any day soon. It's as if all the parties involved know just exactly to where they can push things and get close enough to it without actually crossing the line. Xi is certainly not eager for war — and definitely not as aggressive as the US Empire and NATO have been and still are — and there are still enough Ukrainians left to keep on doing the dirty work in the Empire's proxy war with Russia.

I think everyone involved will be smart enough to stay away from the big red button that launches the nukes. Except maybe for Israel, because they've totally lost the plot right now, and they know that they can get away with whatever they want. Nobody has ever stopped them so far, except for those very few occasions where they were militarily defeated in the 1970s. But then again, they probably didn't have any nukes yet at that point in time, while now they absolutely do.

And then there's the maniac-in-charge of North Korea, but if Trump wins the 2024 elections, then that won't be a threat either, because Trump likes Kim — they're both narcissists, you see.

Lastly, nobody is ordering or forcing you to vote for either presidential candidate. In the grander picture, it doesn't even matter who gets to live at the White House for another 4 or — if Biden loses — possibly 8 years. If Sleepy Joe wins, then it's only going to be another 4 years, of course. If he even lives that long. And if Trumpolini wins, he'll be about the same age as Sleepy Joe is now by the time the next elections are up, because they only differ by a few years — El Donaldo™ was born in 1946, so...

[Wind]

Aianawa only uses his phone, gawd the thought of that is a straight up nightmare. I have a relatively good desktop computer that is an extra and I think I have a couple of extra monitors as well, if he wants them...

I can't read forums on my phone. Technically I can, but it's awful. iPad works, but typing is awful on it. So I prefer my computer.

I logged back on cuz of Aragorn’s masterful handling of Verne’s bullshit, beautiful writing and description of reality. I haven’t always agreed with everything you say (the way I totally do in this thread), or honestly was as impressed with your writing a few years back as I am now…you getting good, man…I had to let you know

Hey, nice to see you here again, Donk. I was wondering where you disappeared. Any opinions are welcome, especially those debunking the alt right nonsense which like a toxic fume has taken over a good portion of internet. At least it certainly has taken over the "alternative community" like a mind virus.

Riku and I have been talking about this in the mod room yesterday, so I will loosely paraphrase what I said there. I do not think that there would be any civil war if Donald Trump wins the elections, but rather the opposite, if he loses the elections, and even worse, if he were to have to go to jail over one or all of his various crimes — the charges of sedition being the most likely nail in the coffin. Although it should also be mentioned that there was another coup in the US in the 1930s, involving Prescott Bush and the entire military-industrial complex, and although they were all tried and found guilty, none of them had to go to prison or even pay a fine. So the chances that Trump can get away with a "free out of jail" card are very real.

Nevertheless, whether he goes to the slammer or not, I believe that the scenario of the 6th of January 2021 might get repeated in one form or another if Trump loses the 2024 elections again, because he will once again claim that the elections were stolen from him, and his cronies are all still unconditionally backing him. They still believe that the 2020 elections were indeed stolen from him. And by the same token, if he wins the 2024 elections, then his cronies will be standing down, resting fully in the confidence that their Orange Jesus™ is safely back in charge. We might even see the return of QAnon.

I want to elaborate what I was thinking. I see that Trump has a very good chance of winning, at least in this current moment he has. Which is appalling, embarrassing and tells way too much about the state of US and it's population. Anyways, RFK Jr. is there to suck away votes from Biden and Trump, but I think it will end up hurting Biden more. Who knows anyways. If Trump wins, then he will bring back the chaos which is just waiting to be unleashed. The real danger zone is when his term would be ending again close to 2029. Would he want to give up again? The man hates losing and makes up all kinds of insane theories which would explain that he didn't lose. He's insane.

Trump fervently supports genocidal Israel. So does Biden and RFK Jr. They're all in for the war machine and supporting the religious fascist right. The war in Ukraine doesn't look like it's about to end anytime soon, although many countries have become tired of supporting Ukraine. It might end up being a stalemate or just another slow combustion of a war. The Taiwan situation isn't looking good either, but recently US has tried to have better relations with China. Trump might escalate things on that front too. I don't see WWIII as very likely either, but in recent times the tensions have gotten worse. The world is dividing more. If there is another chaotic and divisive US leader again then it's not going to be a good thing for the world either. Biden hasn't been very good at that either and his time is probably up.

[donk]

There's a guy on Facebook, an old friend - but I simply can't reply to him concerning the Israel/Palestine situation any more because the goal posts get moved every time I do.

….

Ah hell Phil, busted you got me dead to rights, another closeted right winger exposed.

Of course that was then, and this is now as things have changed. But at that time, a quick reminder of those right wing values he was expressing/exposing:



Has everyone who thanked that OP also been exposed as right wingers?

Let me correct myself, apologies for accusing you of turning back to the right. That was NOT why I gave up on political conversation here, it was when you gave credence to Robert Kennedy Jr when he first started his Presidential campaign flatulations. I thought that we learned discernment of the media together through our journeys through the forums…but it really bothered me when you took that clearly recently turned alt-right lunatic seriously…I didn’t expect you to know his history in “leftish” media, but the bullshit he came out of the gate with was insane, and I thought I knew you well enough to know you wouldn’t fall for that crap.

Do you still feel he is a serious person, worth consideration?

And now you are defending Vern’s toxic loops he can’t stop spewing…really dude? Give me one fucking video/article that has an interesting view on anything that is anywhere near the reality that you and I actually live in, please

“First Amendment absolutists” are wrong, in my opinion….there is “speech” that harms others and not only should NOT protected, but morons like people who identify as D or R need to protected from. They are called “LIES”, and we need to stop arguing about “protecting the right” to broadcast them

PS…I would love to hear your views on Palestine you mentioned in beginning. If you wanna see mine, I have a public account on Facebook called Phil’s Breaking Glass, I am not selling anything (except an ideology, according to my fave mosaic group owner who wouldn’t let me post my most recent stuff, that I’ve been obsessing over)…just wanted to share with anyone who would like to see

[Aianawa]

Evening Donk, just did or started a thread on an xlent book, Expired, This doctor is xlent so far in the vid offered, interesting as most here enjoy science stuff, a way of holding hands maybe.

Ps this is in my reality, narrative, brings me joy, debate on scince stuff etc.

Actualllly, if usaians are polling a Trump over 50% atm, dang i have joined the preveiling narrative ?.

Psss had happen sooner or later, my clock is righter more than twice a day, lotta hard work though.

[Emil El Zapato]

Evening Donk, just did or started a thread on an xlent book, Expired, This doctor is xlent so far in the vid offered, interesting as most here enjoy science stuff, a way of holding hands maybe.

Ps this is in my reality, narrative, brings me joy, debate on scince stuff etc.

Actualllly, if usaians are polling a Trump over 50% atm, dang i have joined the preveiling narrative ?.

Psss had happen sooner or later, my clock is righter more than twice a day, lotta hard work though.

Aianawa, I had a college professor that made a statement that really stuck with me: "Anytime you find yourself in the majority, it is time to reassess your position"

[Fred Steeves]

I don't believe for a minute that it would have been a sting operation.

Call it what you will, I call it the same as currently trying to defeat your political enemy and his movement by having him thrown in prison for whatever you can possibly hang on him. To totally discount an operation on 1/6 that was full of fed provocateurs, means ignoring evidence showing fed looking guys in MAGA gear urging the crowd into more violent action; it also means you have to ignore all footage that shows cops allowing protesters through barriers, opening doors for them, escorting them, arresting them for show then letting them go out of sight, etc.

It also means ignoring how 1/6 could have come as such a surprise to the feds that the event totally caught them with their pants down, with not that much extra preparation. Almost like they wanted something really bad to happen as something to forever pin on the movement. I saw trouble coming, you probably saw it too, hell a lot of people saw it coming! So why didn't the "all seeing eye in the sky" see it coming?

But calling the feds into question with someone like Captain Chaos, and Trump Derangement Syndrome still thick in the air, is tantamount to being sympathetic to the right and alt right. For them, events of that day deserve no further scrutiny, zero curiosity into these anomalies, sort of in line with what happened to the Nord Stream pipeline? Crickets...

And any which way you turn it, Trump also heavily supports Israel, just as Biden does and as Obama did — and he's eager for a confrontation with China too. The USA will eternally be loyal to Israel, and the US imperialist agenda will carry on as usual regardless of who's in the White House. That has already been the case since the end of World War II, now almost 80 years ago, and lots of presidents from both parties have come and gone in that time.

Well there you go, the wheels of deep state keep on turning regardless of who's sitting in the big chair. The battering ram of Ukraine lays in ruin, antagonizing China, Iran, North Korea, the Middle East - but Trump is the only thing that's really of deep concern. At times Biden does, get an honorable mention. But it's Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump that deserves laser focus at all times.

So far as WW 3 or civil war concerns, that's certainly up for debate as well. We can disagree on that, but my point is I see little difference in danger levels regardless of which one occupies the big chair next. Either way the danger level is high.

But here's the crux of everything I'm pointing out here: There's every bit as much propaganda coming from the neoliberals in charge, as there is Vern's ridiculous shit, but only right wing propaganda earns anyone's ire around here...

Any opinions are welcome, especially those debunking the alt right nonsense which like a toxic fume has taken over a good portion of internet. At least it certainly has taken over the "alternative community" like a mind virus.

There again. We don't care about all about the current neoliberal war propaganda, we don't care that their propaganda tells us that Russia China North Korea and Iran are the source of all sin in this world. Nope, that's not toxic, only the alt right propaganda that's not even in power right now is toxic.

That was NOT why I gave up on political conversation here, it was when you gave credence to Robert Kennedy Jr when he first started his Presidential campaign flatulations.

Is that how it should work? Just turn your back on your history with someone when they go and do something, or maybe think something, that you deem stupid and/or inappropriate? What's the matter with engaging me in dialogue and demanding WTF!? I don't bite. I always invite people to challenge any and all assertions I may bring to the table, but it seldom happens. When I do it of others, it's seen as aggressive.

Anyway, the guy was preaching against war in Syria and Ukraine, CIA coups, and wanting to break up the CIA. Not exactly right wing talking points...

Do you still feel he is a serious person, worth consideration?

I don't think he's any worse than the other two clowns in the running, but my opinion has gone way down since then. Do you want the not so enviable job, of explaining to me how Genocide Joe would be a more sane choice?

And now you are defending Vern’s toxic loops he can’t stop spewing…really dude? Give me one fucking video/article that has an interesting view on anything that is anywhere near the reality that you and I actually live in, please

You may remember Phil. Back when the shit libs were just libs, they had a saying: "I may hate what you're saying, but I'll defend your right to say it". Does that settle the matter? If his shit is really that dangerous, then ban him like the others! Either that, or leave him the fuck alone...

PS…I would love to hear your views on Palestine you mentioned in beginning.

You know, I've got just a wee bit of a problem having ethnic cleansing and genocide done in my name.

[Aianawa]

Are we doing common sense again ?. Cheers for your emotional hug Fred.

[Emil El Zapato]

Neoliberals = Neoconservatives = conservatives.