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Thread: January 6 2021 Insurrection

  1. #16
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    thankfulllly the truth shall set you n me free Aragorn, lets watch both sides n the middle.

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    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    thankfulllly the truth shall set you n me free Aragorn, lets watch both sides n the middle.
    So you are saying that you still have about 50% confidence in the veracity of the FUD coming from the alt-right? Have they not lied enough yet by now? And have I ever been wrong in my analysis? Was I wrong about Q? Was I wrong about Donald Trump? Was I wrong about that "2'000 Mules" fakumentary?

    Or for that matter, was I wrong about Corey Goode, or about Simon Parkes, or about Billzebub™ Ryan? Although I will admit that for a while, he had me thinking that I had been wrong about him in the past, right up until he proved me to have been right all along. And didn't we warn you about Project Avalon when you were so desperate to join up there?

    Don't be a fool, Vern. Look for some other information sources than that far-right junk you're monitoring, and when in doubt or if you don't understand, consult a politically neutral source on the facts, like for instance Wikipedia — you'll be surprised by how much you can pick up from there. The alt-right are opportunists, and they will lie about anything if it serves their agenda. And so far, you have fallen for their lies each and every single time, without exception. Anything they publish, you run with it.

    What will it take, Vern, to get you to finally open your eyes to the truth? It's not that the truth isn't clear or obvious, Vern. It's that you don't want to see it.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    So you are saying that you still have about 50% confidence in the veracity of the FUD coming from the alt-right? Have they not lied enough yet by now? And have I ever been wrong in my analysis? Was I wrong about Q? Was I wrong about Donald Trump? Was I wrong about that "2'000 Mules" fakumentary?

    Or for that matter, was I wrong about Corey Goode, or about Simon Parkes, or about Billzebub™ Ryan? Although I will admit that for a while, he had me thinking that I had been wrong about him in the past, right up until he proved me to have been right all along. And didn't we warn you about Project Avalon when you were so desperate to join up there?

    Don't be a fool, Vern. Look for some other information sources than that far-right junk you're monitoring, and when in doubt or if you don't understand, consult a politically neutral source on the facts, like for instance Wikipedia — you'll be surprised by how much you can pick up from there. The alt-right are opportunists, and they will lie about anything if it serves their agenda. And so far, you have fallen for their lies each and every single time, without exception. Anything they publish, you run with it.

    What will it take, Vern, to get you to finally open your eyes to the truth? It's not that the truth isn't clear or obvious, Vern. It's that you don't want to see it.
    Cory was a great learning, yes has not happenned again since. Yes you have lied regards Qetc, nobody knows mate, even now. Every time you say ?, laughable dear friend. i suggest we step lovingly towards each other, later or when we are dead, lets have a good time n chuckle. oh yes nuetral sources are getting uncensored, good times.

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    you may comprehend why this is here, or not.



    Med beds, and drunken relatives.

    Time, timing, and energy.

    In this Matterium, both Time, and energy are precious. At a personal cellular level, all the way up through complete body systems, and out into the larger World of movement, Humanity, and doing shit, we are, individually, and collectively, restricted by energy and time, two of the three sides of the Equation of Life,

    Knowing this, my personal approach to navigating much of the Woo of this Life in this Now, is to use energy/time math as a guide. Especially on all things prognosticated, this is a very good way to gather up the chunks of reality in our woo stew, while limiting the losses inherent in the bullshit.

    As an example, it is relatively easy to see that the mythical ‘med beds’ are NOT in existence at this point anywhere on earth by way of an energy analysis. Take as a beginning the actual micro loads (electrically) within the cells for building new tissue. Estimate by mass (weight) the number of such energy transfers required to alter the condition of a single organ, say the liver, and you have a base line energy amount that would be required for the device to work, without regard to its method of functioning. In other words, a minimum electrical load would be required whether the mythical med bed worked directly with electricity, or converted it to light, or sound, or physical vibration. It is presumed that some other, unknown at this point, form of energetic transfer would also require the energy within such an electrical approach.

    Once you get this base reading it is a simple matter to go looking to see if power supplies of that size & capability are being produced. Or you could see if our industry is producing the energy controllers of the required sophistication to accomplish the goal of such an energy transfer to the body.

    As you may suppose, neither of these can be found in anyone’s catalog of devices being manufactured for sale now.

    Of course, the deluded, hopeful, wishful, and desperate, among the Woo people will insist that such power supplies and power transformers/controllers are being produced in secret for use in secret med bed factories where the employees are either all robots, mind controlled, or ignorant of what they produce such that no definitive trail exists to locate these secret factories. Such is the nature of the Woo and its effect on humans. (sigh).

    This same approach of energy, or time calculations, can be used to debunk such bunk as the QFS, or the NESARA lines of wooshit. Many other chunks circulating in the woostew can also be dismissed by even cursory application of energy maths. These include ‘black goo’, ‘Looking Glass/Yellow Cube’, ‘prisons (or Nazi bases) on the Moon’, and so much more.

    Energy calculations can be used very effectively in another manner. Instead of analysis on presented circumstances to ascertain if such could exist, we can reverse it to analyze our enemies’ energy and time expenditures in order to see just what they may be planning.

    “Ok”, we say. “Our enemies are putting Y amount of energy, and V amount of time, into L subject areas, what could be their reason?”

    So this is the point where I step away from many other Woo pundits. In doing my energy/time calculations on our enemies, that is, the mother WEFfers, the Cabal, the [DS], the [KM], the Zionists….et al names for the same Hydra, my understanding is NOT the same as others in the Woo space.

    It is my conclusion that our enemies have been working for several hundreds of years, and putting an increasing amount of energy into those plans for these last 140 years, not simply to effect control of, and depopulation of, Humanity. Yes, they do want to depopulate, and certainly want totalitarian levels of control, but my thinking is that there is something beyond that which is driving them.

    If you think deeply about almost any activity with humans, it is usually a time constraint that drives us to put more energy into a process than would actually be required for its completion. We do this deliberately to attempt to reduce the time involved, for whatever reason.

    I have worked in global corporate world for over 50 years, and have observed that inevitably when Management starts throwing bodies and money at a project it is always due to time pressures from external sources.

    That’s what I think is going on now, and here. The mother WEFfers have been working a plan that arguably goes back to the founding of the Freemasons, and other secret societies. It includes refined plans from people such as Pike, and the Rabbinical Council of 1893 (in Moscow, Russia), which are all working towards an unspoken goal. While the goal of these global Zionists is certainly control of humanity, there is no preparation, or energy being expended on any aspect of the success of this effort IF the goal is mere control. Even including depopulation as both a minor goal, and a tool for larger efforts, we just don’t see required energy or time being put forward by the mother WEFfers for WHEN they would have succeeded in their plans.

    In other words, if my goal was to gently deal with a drunk relative at a Thanksgiving gathering by using a yuko ottoshi judo take-down, in the process of pushing the elbow, and hooking his neck, I would already be preparing my body with energy to roll him while protecting both him, and myself from whatever we would impact on the floor, and around us as we fall. It is a natural, required process of thinking ahead for when you succeed.

    Energy and time allocations are necessary constantly in this Matterium, for either success, or failure. One can see people are planning for which they expect to manifest by what they make available in energy and time. Thus it is mostly possible to foresee the outcome of projects of all kinds using this metric. My introduction to this method of thinking comes from R. Buckminster Fuller, most completely described in his Synergetics book.

    When I apply energy calculations to our current War with the mother WEFfers, my conclusion is that while their immediate goal is control, they are not now, and have never been, planning for a condition of ‘success’ for their plan. There is no thought being given for ‘what then’, after they have control, even if they have depopulated humanity to some serious extent.

    Yes, there have been distractions presented as their presumed goal, for us, as part of their plan. There have been predictive programming efforts that have produce the social memes of ‘hunger games’ or ‘throne games’… as a stated global condition of their success. But, these are only distractions. The energy and time allocations are not there if the Cabal/[DS] was intent on that form of humanity as their goal.

    All of our enemies’ energy has been placed into getting us to the point that depopulated humanity is controlled by them, BUT there is no expenditures for the afterward part of that time based equation.

    Is it a case that the [DS][KM] has never been planning to succeed?

    I don’t think that is the situation. I can observe the Cabal/[KM] being driven by some very severe time constraint such that they are putting more energy into their immediate goal of depopulate and control. They are throwing people and money at their effort in a manner that is excessive to an extreme level relative to developing circumstances.

    People will tell you that I am wrong. That what motivates the enemies of Humanity is not an external time pressure, but rather their fear of losing this war. Perhaps, but I don’t see any energy being expended suggesting that they know they are losing. There are no ‘bolt holes’, back-up positions, or escape routes being set up for the [DS][KM]. They do not intend to lose.

    BUT they are not putting money/time/people into winning.

    Hmmm….?

    It is as though there is something else. A ‘something else’ that is going to make any ‘success planning’, or energy allocations for success, moot, useless in the bigger plan. As though there is no need. Further, the actions of the [DS][KM] are as though their time constraint, their ‘dead line’, will arrive without regard to their success, or lack of it.

    My conclusion from their actions is that they don’t think they will lose, even if they lose. That is, they think something, or more appropriately, a ‘someone’, will be coming to take over the reigns of control from them. The [DS][KM][Zionists] are thinking that someone is coming to save their collective asses.

    The [DS][KM] thinks that the Elohim are returning. Further, I think, that they think, that this ‘second coming of the EL’ is imminent.

    The timing is not known by them, only anticipated. This is why, in my opinion, we see them moving from Agenda 2050, to Agenda 2030, and now to 2027.

    Yes, we do see them putting money and people into a ‘contact agenda’. The mother WEFfers are very keen on the whole subject of ‘space aliens & human interaction’. Of course, they think of themselves as the ‘humans’, and y’all as the ‘animals’ that they will be selling to the Elohim.

    Energy matters. What you do with yours betrays your thinking.

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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    you may comprehend why this is here, or not.
    Interesting Aianawa...The BIG winner is entropy...
    Last edited by Wind, 25th November 2023 at 17:27. Reason: Trimmed down the quote

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    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    So you are saying that you still have about 50% confidence in the veracity of the FUD coming from the alt-right? Have they not lied enough yet by now? And have I ever been wrong in my analysis? Was I wrong about Q? Was I wrong about Donald Trump? Was I wrong about that "2'000 Mules" fakumentary?

    Or for that matter, was I wrong about Corey Goode, or about Simon Parkes, or about Billzebub™ Ryan? Although I will admit that for a while, he had me thinking that I had been wrong about him in the past, right up until he proved me to have been right all along. And didn't we warn you about Project Avalon when you were so desperate to join up there?

    Don't be a fool, Vern. Look for some other information sources than that far-right junk you're monitoring, and when in doubt or if you don't understand, consult a politically neutral source on the facts, like for instance Wikipedia — you'll be surprised by how much you can pick up from there. The alt-right are opportunists, and they will lie about anything if it serves their agenda. And so far, you have fallen for their lies each and every single time, without exception. Anything they publish, you run with it.

    What will it take, Vern, to get you to finally open your eyes to the truth? It's not that the truth isn't clear or obvious, Vern. It's that you don't want to see it.
    Cory was a great learning, yes has not happenned again since. Yes you have lied regards Qetc, nobody knows mate, even now.
    I have not lied, and yes, those who wanted to know do know. Jim Watson himself has even confessed, by way of a slip of the tongue, which he later on denied.

    Besides, it doesn't even matter which individuals are behind Q, because the principle is the same: it's a LARP, it is pro-fascist, and it was meant to help Donald Trump get elected in 2016, and intended to get him reelected in 2020.

    Fine, you want me to do your homework for you again? Okay, here are a few snippets.


    Source: QAnon at Wikipedia


    Before Q's 2021 reappearance, 8kun changed its salt, meaning it would have been impossible for a user to have the same tripcode as before. Yet Q's tripcode remained the same as it was in 2020. Soon after, 8kun changed its salt back to the original.

    [...]

    Hoback showed his final conversation with Ron Watkins, who stated on camera:

    "I've spent the past ... almost ten years, every day, doing this kind of research anonymously. Now I'm doing it publicly, that's the only difference. ... It was basically ... three years of intelligence training teaching normies how to do intelligence work. It was basically what I was doing anonymously before but never as Q. [Watkins then laughed and added:] Never as Q. I promise. Because I am not Q, and I never was."

    The tripcode for Q remaining the same while the salt had been changed for every user account proves that the "Q drops" were posted by the administrator of the server, i.e. Jim Watkins himself.


    Source: QAnon Anonymous at Wikipedia


    QAnon Anonymous (QAA) is an investigative journalism podcast that analyzes and debunks conspiracy theories. It is co-hosted by Travis View (pen name of Logan Strain), Julian Feeld, and Jake Rockatansky, alongside British correspondent: Annie Kelly, Canadian correspondent: Liv Agar. Inner Earth correspondent: Brad Abrahams, and QAA Legal Analyst: Allie Mezei.

    The podcast premiered in August 2018, around 10 months after the first couple of posts made by the person claiming to be 'Q' on the 4chan message board. NPR called QAA "a podcast that tracks and debunks online conspiracy theories", initially focusing on the QAnon conspiracy theory but has since widened to discuss related conspiracy theories in general and the history of conspiratorial and reactionary thinking in other time periods.

    QAA describes QAnon as a "big tent conspiracy theory" and a "meta conspiracy theory that provides an underlying narrative for other baseless theories". Annie Kelly acts as the podcast's United Kingdom correspondent and joined the podcast as the conspiracy theory spread from the United States to other countries, such as when it was accelerated by the COVID-19 pandemic.

    Julian Feeld has told Wired that QAnon is "a colorful expression of a broader and more worrying global trend towards 'information warfare' in the service of those seeking to consolidate capital and power".

    Travis View has written extensively for the Washington Post on the subject of QAnon. The podcast's hosts and correspondents, and View in particular, have been quoted and interviewed extensively by media covering the QAnon phenomenon, including Salon, Vice, BBC, Yahoo, the Atlantic Council, USA Today, and the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC).

    The Washington Post named QAnon Anonymous as their Podcast of the Year for 2020.


    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    Every time you say ?, laughable dear friend.
    What's laughable is your tenacity in your denial, because you refuse to see things for what they are.

    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    i suggest we step lovingly towards each other, later or when we are dead, lets have a good time n chuckle.
    You are forgetting that this is not just an exchange of personal opinions. This is a publicly visible forum, and the public at large has already been misled too many times. That's what got Donald Trump elected in 2016 in the first place, and Joe Biden in 2020.

    A misled public leads to violence, Vern, or have you forgotten how many people have been killed or injured for life because of that alt-right propaganda?

    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    oh yes nuetral sources are getting uncensored, good times.
    Yes, Wikipedia is uncensored. It is not without controversy because of propaganda having been inserted by the US military during the G.W. Bush administration — which has been noticed, and which has been corrected — but the vast majority on there is factually correct and has been verified. Besides, it also exists in other languages, and therefore it is always possible to compare the content on an English language page with its equivalent page in another language. As such, the system is self-correcting already.

    Also, I spoke of the Belgian state-sponsored news media. Yes, they are Wokemons™ — courtesy of the fact that they have historically always had many LGBTQ+ people among their personnel, and that they used to have a pro-socialist stance back when it was not just state-sponsored but a completely state-owned network — but they do point out misinformation and they list all the facts to rebuke it.

    They actually have people engage in investigative journalism, both in the field and behind the scenes. On some occasions, they will even send in undercover reporters with hidden cameras. This has in the past already led to quite a few scandals and a couple of dirty secrets from within the government and the political scene coming to the surface.

    On top of that, they also have a feedback channel through which readers and viewers can point out mistakes or even criticize them on their dissemination of information, and they will then address this feedback — usually publicly.

    So, yes, in terms of the raw facts, they can be trusted. Never mind the fact that, depending on who wrote the article, they may word things with a certain bias in their tone — especially if it's anything even remotely LGBTQ+-related — because that is easily dismissed if you're aware of it, and it is also not what matters. What does matter are the facts: the names, places, dates and timestamps, and the events, in sequence. And if they don't know — for instance, because the investigation is still ongoing — or if they are forbidden by the police from mentioning certain names due to an ongoing investigation, then they will say that too.

    And now compare that to your information sources...


    • YouTubers with monetized channels and an ostensible alt-right motivation
    • alt-right video outlets like Rumble and Bitchute
    • US American alt-right websites
    • US American alt-right blogs
    • US American alt-right forums
    • US American alt-right-related individuals on Twitter
    • alt-right "historical researchers"
    • alt-right doctors
    • other (mostly US American) alt-right stuff


    Are we seeing a pattern here? I know I am. You call me a liar, and yet most of what you post is made up of nothing but lies — each and every one of which has already been debunked.

    But you don't even see it because like Fox Mulder, you want to believe. Except that what Fox Mulder believed in was a lot more innocent than the stuff you're espousing. The material you post here causes damage, not just to this forum, but to people visiting here, and to people having to face the consequences of this misinformation campaign elsewhere, be it on Facebook, Twitter, or whatever else. People have died because of that misinformation.

    You're living in a box, Vern, and you can't see over the edge. Or perhaps I should use the metaphor that Fred Steeves likes appealing unto: you're living in Plato's cave, and all you see are the shadows, and that's how you form your opinion of what's going on in the world.

    Well guess what? I'm outside of that cave, and I'm looking at the real world.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Julian Feeld has told Wired that QAnon is "a colorful expression of a broader and more worrying global trend towards 'information warfare' in the service of those seeking to consolidate capital and power".
    That's the crux of the biscuit - Frank Zappa. And yes, all of it is very harmful and socially destructive...very socially destructive.

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  15. #23
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    I don't follow any corporate media, Vern. I read the state-sponsored Belgian news media only, and yes, they too have an agenda. They are absolute Wokemons™, and I am perfectly aware of that — and disgusted by their Woke™ neuroticisms — but when it comes to reporting facts and dispelling misinformation, they are still spot-on.
    From "The Brussels Times":

    The Kremlin propaganda machine continues to spread lies and until now more than 16,000 cases of disinformation have been reported and debunked, the EU East Stratcom Task Force reported on Thursday morning.
    That sounds just the same as what we're continuously beaten over the head with here - for years on end now. Does this esteemed task force they so closely follow look for disinformation" from their US masters? The same US, which has the most propagandized population on this planet? I'm guessing this is conveniently overlooked.
    https://www.brusselstimes.com/world/...raine-and-gaza

    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Yes, Wikipedia is uncensored. It is not without controversy because of propaganda having been inserted by the US military during the G.W. Bush administration — which has been noticed, and which has been corrected — but the vast majority on there is factually correct and has been verified.
    Seriously???

    Come on man, no researcher worth their salt goes to Wikipedia... for anything. Save for basic, run of the mill stuff like names dates and places.

    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    A misled public leads to violence, Vern, or have you forgotten how many people have been killed or injured for life because of that alt-right propaganda?
    I'd say the number is miniscule, at best, in comparison to decades of neoliberal propaganda in service of the US war machine.

    Now if we want to just keep it to 1/6, sure the Trump gang didn't go to the Capitol that day to hold hands and sing Kumbaya, but evidence is going to continue mounting that they were also walking into a sting operation. To what extent? We don't know yet, but one hell of a lot more went on that day that wasn't covered by that ridiculous "January 6th Commission".



    Funny thing. I mentioned to Mrs. Steeves the other day that gun to my head, I'd vote for Trump over Biden's handlers. Why? It's pretty simple and straight forward, IMO the lesser of two evils there is voting for potential civil war, over potential WW3 that these current sons of bitches are pushing to the brink of no return.

    The odds of surviving a civil war are much better, and at least it would be contained here in house like a bottled up biohazard - at least sparing everyone else.

    Trump and the alt right are not the only biohazard in town, perhaps not even the most lethal overall...



    P.S. Cut Vern some slack will ya? It's not a good look.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    I don't follow any corporate media, Vern. I read the state-sponsored Belgian news media only, and yes, they too have an agenda. They are absolute Wokemons™, and I am perfectly aware of that — and disgusted by their Woke™ neuroticisms — but when it comes to reporting facts and dispelling misinformation, they are still spot-on.
    From "The Brussels Times":

    The Kremlin propaganda machine continues to spread lies and until now more than 16,000 cases of disinformation have been reported and debunked, the EU East Stratcom Task Force reported on Thursday morning.
    That sounds just the same as what we're continuously beaten over the head with here - for years on end now. Does this esteemed task force they so closely follow look for disinformation" from their US masters? The same US, which has the most propagandized population on this planet? I'm guessing this is conveniently overlooked.
    https://www.brusselstimes.com/world/...raine-and-gaza
    The Brussels Times is not state-sponsored media. It's a corporate outlet, owned by BXL Connect.

    The Belgian news media I read — and only selectively so — is vrt.be, which is the — since the many federal state reforms — now Flemish Region-managed Dutch-spoken branch of the once national BRTN/RTBF public television network, and specifically, their online news service.

    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    P.S. Cut Vern some slack will ya? It's not a good look.
    Haven't we been cutting him enough slack yet in the past seven years — which is when his infatuation with the alt-right (and Donald Trump in particular) began?

    Don't be ridiculous, Fred. There already is a Project Avalon, and this here is not it.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Well that’s a shame. In a time when world events are rivaling those of the 1960’s, possibly even surpassing, it’s become fashionable to-

    Become more of a Top 40 format

    Scale way back on the research

    Not debate or defend one’s positions

    And repeatedly berate a member who’s either unable, or unwilling to stand up for himself

    Damn…
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Well that’s a shame. In a time when world events are rivaling those of the 1960’s, possibly even surpassing, it’s become fashionable to-

    Become more of a Top 40 format
    Why Fred, I didn't know that your Dutch was so good that you could immediately debunk any of my news sources. And without even having read them, to boot! You must be a clairvoyant!

    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Scale way back on the research
    Oh, parroting far-right news sources and religiously believing in the legitimacy of QAnon and Donald Trump is suddenly called research, is it? Then what does that make me? A prestigious university professor in quantum physics?



    What was that again you said about Project Avalon being an echo chamber, Fred? Is that what you had in mind for our little Shire here as well, then? Or at least, insofar as Vern himself hasn't been trying that enough yet already in the last seven years, of course.

    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Not debate or defend one’s positions
    The debate has already been had a long time ago, Fred. And then we had the debate again. And again. And again. And Again. And again. And again.

    Don't you think that it's about time to put a stop to it now, and especially so when all the required evidence of the alt-right claims being false has already long ago been presented, and ad nauseam?

    You're starting to sound like Donald Trump in the various court cases regarding his various frauds. "It's all a political witch hunt!"

    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    And repeatedly berate a member who’s either unable, or unwilling to stand up for himself

    Damn…
    What you call berating, I call "a probably futile but still earnest attempt to educate Vern on the validity of information sources and deprogramming him from his alt-right addiction and knee-jerk conditioning." That's what I call it.

    You might see this as bullying — you haven't actually said it, but I know what you're thinking — but it isn't. This is the debate, and although I am trying to get through to Vern — which, as you should very well know by now, is just as incredibly hard as weaning someone off of drugs — I am still trying to keep it civilized and educational. No one said that a debate ought to be all kumbaya.

    Besides, he literally called me a liar a few posts higher up the thread. I did take offense in that, and whenever someone calls me a liar to my face, knowing full well that I would never lie to anyone, I normally silently think "Fuck you!" and I walk away. But if I had done that, then this thread would once again have evolved into "Trumpy beautifullll, Joe odep — that's "pedo" in reverse, which is the code Vern is using for Joe Biden now — and Kam Kam bad."

    Your second mistake is to think that Vern cannot defend himself. He may be dyslexic, but he's not an idiot. His problem is one of addiction and naiveté, not of stupidity. Ignorance is a condition that can be remedied. Stupidity is a way of life.

    Vern is not stupid, but he is naive, and he lives in his own world — one that is light-years removed from the one the rest of us all live in, and where people die because they are being trampled by rabid fascists or because they drink fish tank cleaner as their orange Messiah said they should. Well, he didn't say it literally, but his advice was nevertheless equally stupid and equally misguided.

    Anyway, we've tried the pussyfooting approach, and guess what: it doesn't work.

    Everyone here knows that QAnon is and has always been bullshit. Likewise for the anti-vaxx nonsense Vern keeps on posting. Everyone knows it, except for Vern. And as a result, Vern continues to post to his misinformation threads in the Misinformation category, and the only one who ever looks at his threads is Chuckie, who then periodically yanks Vern's chain a bit by posting some stupid pro-Democrat junk in return.

    Even this thread here first needed to be renamed in order for people to know what it actually referred to, because the original title of the thread was "J6" — no more, no less. And if you're going to tell me that was clearly a reference to the 6th of January 2021, then you could have fooled me, because over here in Europe, we put the day before the month and we don't speak in Acronymese — or at least, not yet, because it's beginning to become an import product over here as well by now.

    So the original title was meaningless, it was posted under the Meta & Off-Topic category, and I was already hesitant to look at it because, well, it was a thread started by Vern. And sure enough, it was once again right-wing bullshit. So I went about and explained to Vern that the video footage itself doesn't have to be doctored if you know that it's simply too long for any single person to watch, and that just the mere innuendo was enough — as evidenced by the comments to that article on the site itself — to incite another rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth far-right frenzy. Just as intended.

    Everything I myself wrote on this thread so far, and especially where I was addressing Vern, was written from the heart, with integrity, and even though the words may have sounded harsh, with the kindest of intentions. Any and all passion in my words simply stemmed (and still stems) from my frustration over not being able to get through to Vern. Again, not that Vern would be stupid, but because he is addicted and infatuated, and on top of that, he's naively believing everything his drug dealers say. Just like when you're freshly in love and the object of your affection can do no wrong in your eyes. Love is blind, and Vern's love for Donald Trump and QAnon is just as blind.

    Lastly — and I really hate having to remind you of this on a public thread, given that this was confidentially said in the mod room — I hope you have not forgotten what you yourself said about Vern and his membership here back when you were still a moderator.

    So, going by the same "you're guilty until proven innocent" vantage as what you yourself are maintaining now — and as you have been maintaining with myself personally on account of every past staff action that you did not understand — should I then accuse you of hypocrisy? Or shall I rather simply continue being myself and assume with confidence that you've really simply already long forgotten what it was that you said? An eidetic memory is a bitch, Fred. It's both a curse and a blessing, and in equal proportions — trust me (for once).

    It's fashionable to try and "stick it to the man", Fred. But if by now you still don't know "the man" — color choice intentional — then you never will. And then I see no point in continuing to try and justify myself to you, because it would only be a waste of energy. I'm too old for that shit, and physically in a much worse shape than our brother Vern here, or than you. I've got nothing left to prove, because I'm 60 years old and I've been doing exactly that my whole goddamn life already.





    P.S.: For a change, it's not Chuckie who's derailing the thread this time. Not that I'm saying he won't be joining in the off-track party later, but still. And whatever you think about this forum, be glad that you can do here whatever it is that you just did. It wouldn't fly for very long over at Project Avalon, because you'd be banned — "you" in the generic sense, given that just about everyone here except for Wind has already been banned from there, and he's probably already on borrowed time over there as well by now — and the thread would be moved to their mod room in a heartbeat, so that even the registered members cannot find it anymore. And you know that.

    So yeah, lots of censorship going on here. Lots of bullying. Those poor peaceful fascist rioters and alt-right YouTube[*] talking heads with their monetized videos. Poor Donny Trump with that bleached ocean grass hairsprayed onto his follicly-challenged skull and those Ultrabrite®-white dentures. How dare that dirty admin from that insignificant and dying forum come down on them!


    [*]No, wait, most of them are on Rumble and Bitchute now that YouTube has begun cracking down on proven misinformation. My mistake.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  23. #27
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    I have not lied, and yes, those who wanted to know do know. Jim Watson himself has even confessed, by way of a slip of the tongue, which he later on denied.

    Besides, it doesn't even matter which individuals are behind Q, because the principle is the same: it's a LARP, it is pro-fascist, and it was meant to help Donald Trump get elected in 2016, and intended to get him reelected in 2020.

    Fine, you want me to do your homework for you again? Okay, here are a few snippets.


    Source: QAnon at Wikipedia


    Before Q's 2021 reappearance, 8kun changed its salt, meaning it would have been impossible for a user to have the same tripcode as before. Yet Q's tripcode remained the same as it was in 2020. Soon after, 8kun changed its salt back to the original.

    [...]

    Hoback showed his final conversation with Ron Watkins, who stated on camera:

    "I've spent the past ... almost ten years, every day, doing this kind of research anonymously. Now I'm doing it publicly, that's the only difference. ... It was basically ... three years of intelligence training teaching normies how to do intelligence work. It was basically what I was doing anonymously before but never as Q. [Watkins then laughed and added:] Never as Q. I promise. Because I am not Q, and I never was."

    The tripcode for Q remaining the same while the salt had been changed for every user account proves that the "Q drops" were posted by the administrator of the server, i.e. Jim Watkins himself.


    Source: QAnon Anonymous at Wikipedia


    QAnon Anonymous (QAA) is an investigative journalism podcast that analyzes and debunks conspiracy theories. It is co-hosted by Travis View (pen name of Logan Strain), Julian Feeld, and Jake Rockatansky, alongside British correspondent: Annie Kelly, Canadian correspondent: Liv Agar. Inner Earth correspondent: Brad Abrahams, and QAA Legal Analyst: Allie Mezei.

    The podcast premiered in August 2018, around 10 months after the first couple of posts made by the person claiming to be 'Q' on the 4chan message board. NPR called QAA "a podcast that tracks and debunks online conspiracy theories", initially focusing on the QAnon conspiracy theory but has since widened to discuss related conspiracy theories in general and the history of conspiratorial and reactionary thinking in other time periods.

    QAA describes QAnon as a "big tent conspiracy theory" and a "meta conspiracy theory that provides an underlying narrative for other baseless theories". Annie Kelly acts as the podcast's United Kingdom correspondent and joined the podcast as the conspiracy theory spread from the United States to other countries, such as when it was accelerated by the COVID-19 pandemic.

    Julian Feeld has told Wired that QAnon is "a colorful expression of a broader and more worrying global trend towards 'information warfare' in the service of those seeking to consolidate capital and power".

    Travis View has written extensively for the Washington Post on the subject of QAnon. The podcast's hosts and correspondents, and View in particular, have been quoted and interviewed extensively by media covering the QAnon phenomenon, including Salon, Vice, BBC, Yahoo, the Atlantic Council, USA Today, and the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC).

    The Washington Post named QAnon Anonymous as their Podcast of the Year for 2020.




    What's laughable is your tenacity in your denial, because you refuse to see things for what they are.



    You are forgetting that this is not just an exchange of personal opinions. This is a publicly visible forum, and the public at large has already been misled too many times. That's what got Donald Trump elected in 2016 in the first place, and Joe Biden in 2020.

    A misled public leads to violence, Vern, or have you forgotten how many people have been killed or injured for life because of that alt-right propaganda?



    Yes, Wikipedia is uncensored. It is not without controversy because of propaganda having been inserted by the US military during the G.W. Bush administration — which has been noticed, and which has been corrected — but the vast majority on there is factually correct and has been verified. Besides, it also exists in other languages, and therefore it is always possible to compare the content on an English language page with its equivalent page in another language. As such, the system is self-correcting already.

    Also, I spoke of the Belgian state-sponsored news media. Yes, they are Wokemons™ — courtesy of the fact that they have historically always had many LGBTQ+ people among their personnel, and that they used to have a pro-socialist stance back when it was not just state-sponsored but a completely state-owned network — but they do point out misinformation and they list all the facts to rebuke it.

    They actually have people engage in investigative journalism, both in the field and behind the scenes. On some occasions, they will even send in undercover reporters with hidden cameras. This has in the past already led to quite a few scandals and a couple of dirty secrets from within the government and the political scene coming to the surface.

    On top of that, they also have a feedback channel through which readers and viewers can point out mistakes or even criticize them on their dissemination of information, and they will then address this feedback — usually publicly.

    So, yes, in terms of the raw facts, they can be trusted. Never mind the fact that, depending on who wrote the article, they may word things with a certain bias in their tone — especially if it's anything even remotely LGBTQ+-related — because that is easily dismissed if you're aware of it, and it is also not what matters. What does matter are the facts: the names, places, dates and timestamps, and the events, in sequence. And if they don't know — for instance, because the investigation is still ongoing — or if they are forbidden by the police from mentioning certain names due to an ongoing investigation, then they will say that too.

    And now compare that to your information sources...


    • YouTubers with monetized channels and an ostensible alt-right motivation
    • alt-right video outlets like Rumble and Bitchute
    • US American alt-right websites
    • US American alt-right blogs
    • US American alt-right forums
    • US American alt-right-related individuals on Twitter
    • alt-right "historical researchers"
    • alt-right doctors
    • other (mostly US American) alt-right stuff


    Are we seeing a pattern here? I know I am. You call me a liar, and yet most of what you post is made up of nothing but lies — each and every one of which has already been debunked.

    But you don't even see it because like Fox Mulder, you want to believe. Except that what Fox Mulder believed in was a lot more innocent than the stuff you're espousing. The material you post here causes damage, not just to this forum, but to people visiting here, and to people having to face the consequences of this misinformation campaign elsewhere, be it on Facebook, Twitter, or whatever else. People have died because of that misinformation.

    You're living in a box, Vern, and you can't see over the edge. Or perhaps I should use the metaphor that Fred Steeves likes appealing unto: you're living in Plato's cave, and all you see are the shadows, and that's how you form your opinion of what's going on in the world.

    Well guess what? I'm outside of that cave, and I'm looking at the real world.
    Off you go again Aragorn, you have ignored Qetc because you were told to, would rather let it go but one wee ffs please, and will move along, Qetc was into Trump not winning 2020, the opposite, and nowadays it be obvious why, if you wish me to defend the other words, let me know.

    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    That's the crux of the biscuit - Frank Zappa. And yes, all of it is very harmful and socially destructive...very socially destructive.
    Qetc is complete already, Israel was left for last, when Q thread was banned recently it did not matter, it be over long long ago, humanity won, God won, now was won, now won won now, we are in the greatest of times , the future being created now, cannot be stopped, smile.

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    Since you cued me in, Aragorn...I would like to propose a truce. Aianawa has the right to post what he wants in my opinion...If people choose to ignore them they certainly have the right to do that. In my opinion Aragorn, part of your job as a professional leader is to not let things get under your skin as difficult as that challenge might be. It is up to you to 'manage' those members when they lose perspective and self-management. It is very rare to see Aianawa do that, Objectivity is the key to the point of self-suffering. I don't know how serious I am about this post...but there are elements of truth in it.

    This might sound silly to both you and Fred but it actually bothers me to see you guys generate so much friction between yourselves, you guys are suppose to be friends, sympatico, on the same page, etc. I mean after all, you have always favored Fred over me to the point of shutting me down completely AND NOW you guys go at each other, come on and we wonder why the world is at war, we have a microcosm of it right here in our small group... jeez

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  26. #29
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    Off you go again Aragorn, you have ignored Qetc because you were told to,
    No, Vern, nobody told me ignore Q. I looked at it, and I immediately knew all that I needed to know about its validity. Besides, Q wasn't the first iteration of this phenomenon. Earlier on 4chan there was a similar character — whether it was the same individual or not, I don't know, but that's not important right now — who pretended to be an FBI insider, and who posted anonymously. As the matter of fact, I even think it was you who posted that stuff over here at the time — I distinctly remember that they were screenshots — because I don't monitor 4chan or 8chan/8kun, nor would I want to.

    Anyway, I looked at both phenomena, and even though I initially thought that there might have been some legitimacy to the claims of the FBI persona, once I realized how far to the right this character was — their posts were full of racism and Nazi talk — I let it go. And then Q suddenly appeared on the scene, and I immediately knew all that I needed to know. But that's not all, because I have loosely monitored the meta of the phenomenon, i.e. instead of reading Q's "drops" — or perhaps more correctly put, droppings — I looked into the research on account of who might have been behind Q.

    So I did look at the phenomenon — I have even posted several threads about it here at the forum — but that is the opposite of what you did. You only looked at what Q said, and you took it all in for true, hook, line and sinker, and without even the smallest modicum of discernment on account of Q's Nazi-like talk, which should have been a big red flag already.

    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    Qetc was into Trump not winning 2020, the opposite
    There is a difference between Q's messages and Q's intents, Vern. Maybe Q predicted that Trump wasn't going to win the 2020 elections, but at the same time, Q did everything to make sure that people would keep on supporting and voting for Trump.





    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    Since you cued me in, Aragorn...I would like to propose a truce. Aianawa has the right to post what he wants in my opinion...If people choose to ignore them they certainly have the right to do that.
    You're missing the point, Chuckie. Sure, Vern has the right to think what he wants, but this here is a publicly visible forum, and apart from the registered members, we also get unregistered visitors. These visitors could be human — and in a past now already long gone, that was mostly the case — or they could be web-crawling bots.

    Judging by the connections we're currently seeing, about 95% of the unregistered visitors are now all coming from Amazon AWS — all from the same dedicated 47.128.*.* subnet, even — and they are most likely data harvesters for A.I. training, because that's all the rage right now. And A.I. services like ChatGPT are notorious for coming up with the wrong answers, simply because they scrape the internet indiscriminately and they have neither consciousness nor a moral compass. And misinformation disseminated by ChatGPT and other technologies like it has already gotten people killed — I'm not kidding, because many people are stupid enough to think that ChatGPT and its ilk are infallible, and that they have all the answers to every question anyone could ever ask.

    But that aside, even human beings pick up misinformation from the web. Just as Vern picks up misinformation and then disseminates it here, others will pick up Vern's threads and repeat the dissemination of the same misinformation, until everyone eventually comes to accept the misinformation for truth — if not from ChatGPT and its ilk, then from human beings with just as little discernment as Vern.

    And not only that, but then there's also the aspect of this forum's reputation. Up in the mod room, we — and this includes Malc himself — have already decided a very long time ago that we do not want to be identified with anything from the far-right. Even if it costs us members, or even the very survival of this forum itself, we will not allow this place to become an alt-right echo chamber, and we are immutable in this resolve.

    It is not that we don't allow freedom of speech or freedom of opinion. I think we have already long made it very clear that we do allow that, and anyone who still has their doubts about that will either way never be convinced. But unbridled freedom of speech inevitably always leads to the loudest voices suppressing the others and driving them away, as well as to incitement of hatred and violence. Because after all, those loud voices are inevitably always the ones from the far-right, and we have already seen — and experienced right here at the forum — what it leads to. Or has everyone already long forgotten about turiya and Steven with their despicable Nazi-like propaganda posts about a "caravan of pestilence", and how neither of them was backing down after repeated warnings from the staff?

    As the management of this forum, we have a grander picture of everything, and we have a responsibility toward our members, toward our non-registered visitors, and toward the forum itself as an entity on the internet, not to mention that we also have a sense of honor and a set of ethics and values. We have no objection to people speaking their mind, but a line has to be drawn between what constitutes freedom of speech and what constitutes propaganda. Propaganda is not free speech, but an attempt to rally people into supporting a certain agenda through clever rhetoric.





    Source: The Free Dictionary


    prop·a·gan·da
    n.

    1. The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.
    2. Material disseminated by the advocates or opponents of a doctrine or cause: wartime propaganda.



    Source: The Free Dictionary





    Source: Wikipedia


    Propaganda is information that is not objective and is used primarily to influence an audience and further an agenda, often by presenting facts selectively to encourage a particular synthesis or perception, or using loaded language to produce an emotional rather than a rational response to the information that is presented. Propaganda is often associated with material prepared by governments, but activist groups, companies, religious organizations and the media can also produce propaganda.

    In the twentieth century, the term propaganda has often been associated with a manipulative approach, but propaganda historically was a neutral descriptive term.

    A wide range of materials and media are used for conveying propaganda messages, which changed as new technologies were invented, including paintings, cartoons, posters, pamphlets, films, radio shows, TV shows, and websites. Propaganda is now moving into a digital age utillizing bots, algorithms, to create computational propaganda and spread online fake or biased news using social media.

    In a 1929 literary debate with Edward Bernays, Everett Dean Martin argues that, “Propaganda is making puppets of us. We are moved by hidden strings which the propagandist manipulates.”


    [ continue reading here ]


    Source: Wikipedia





    It is not the first time I post the above definition here at the forum, Chuckie. That's why I'm keeping it as a preformatted template in a text file on my computer.

    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    In my opinion Aragorn, part of your job as a professional leader is to not let things get under your skin as difficult as that challenge might be. It is up to you to 'manage' those members when they lose perspective and self-management.
    Which is exactly what I'm doing, Chuckie, but instead of simply resorting to disciplinary measures — which would be the easy way out, and which is what they're doing at most other forums — I am still trying to appeal unto dialog and attempts to educate people on what it is they do wrong and why it is wrong.

    I guess I must be a naive fool in my own right, then. But I am not going to let anyone drag this forum into supporting somebody else's agenda, and least of all a fascist one.

    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    It is very rare to see Aianawa do that, Objectivity is the key to the point of self-suffering. I don't know how serious I am about this post...but there are elements of truth in it.
    Vern is well-known for spamming his stuff to unrelated threads and cross-posting the same thing to multiple of his own threads. That, to me, is irrefutable evidence of his (rather unhealthy) obsession with all things alt-right and with ludicrous conspiracy theories.

    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    This might sound silly to both you and Fred but it actually bothers me to see you guys generate so much friction between yourselves, you guys are suppose to be friends, sympatico, on the same page, etc. I mean after all, you have always favored Fred over me to the point of shutting me down completely AND NOW you guys go at each other, come on and we wonder why the world is at war, we have a microcosm of it right here in our small group... jeez
    If only Fred Steeves were as hard on himself and as introspective as we are, instead of looking for splinters in the eyes of someone whom he should by now already long know to be devoid of moral (and other) corruption, then maybe he wouldn't be acting so confrontationally.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  28. #30
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Okay Frank, nothing I said was personal, no need to come out swinging like I just kicked your dog (and no need to go sharing out of context mod room snippets, of which I no longer have access to. If you want to go public into the ins and outs of why I stepped down as a mod, as it now obviously concerned what I took to be the incessant bullying of Vern of which I no longer want to be directly associated with, we can go there).

    Anyway, all which goes back to what I'm pointing to. If you don't like my critiques, you, or anyone else could actually just rebut them without going personal. It's not a new idea. The great philosophers were doing it thousands of years ago.

    And I'm not here to "stick it to the man", really? I'm here as someone who's been at the forum thing for 13 years now, and has some critiques of the forum. I'll try to start over here, it's open to everyone, and feel free to demonstrate how utterly wrong I am about any of it. Or, just tell me to piss off and I will.



    Part 1 - This was more just to you. Leaving any mention of Vern out of the picture.



    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Yes, Wikipedia is uncensored. It is not without controversy because of propaganda having been inserted by the US military during the G.W. Bush administration — which has been noticed, and which has been corrected — but the vast majority on there is factually correct and has been verified.
    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Seriously???

    Come on man, no researcher worth their salt goes to Wikipedia... for anything. Save for basic, run of the mill stuff like names dates and places.




    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    A misled public leads to violence, Vern, or have you forgotten how many people have been killed or injured for life because of that alt-right propaganda?
    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    I'd say the number is miniscule, at best, in comparison to decades of neoliberal propaganda in service of the US war machine.

    Now if we want to just keep it to 1/6, sure the Trump gang didn't go to the Capitol that day to hold hands and sing Kumbaya, but evidence is going to continue mounting that they were also walking into a sting operation. To what extent? We don't know yet, but one hell of a lot more went on that day that wasn't covered by that ridiculous "January 6th Commission".



    Funny thing. I mentioned to Mrs. Steeves the other day that gun to my head, I'd vote for Trump over Biden's handlers. Why? It's pretty simple and straight forward, IMO the lesser of two evils there is voting for potential civil war, over potential WW3 that these current sons of bitches are pushing to the brink of no return.

    The odds of surviving a civil war are much better, and at least it would be contained here in house like a bottled up biohazard - at least sparing everyone else.

    Trump and the alt right are not the only biohazard in town, perhaps not even the most lethal overall...




    Part 2 - Concerning the forum in general. Leaving any mention of Vern out of the picture.



    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Well that’s a shame. In a time when world events are rivaling those of the 1960’s, possibly even surpassing, it’s become fashionable to-

    Become more of a Top 40 format

    Scale way back on the research

    Not debate or defend one’s positions


    To add: Frank, I tried going through the news link you left, translate works just fine, but I couldn't find any actual hard hitting news. Any helpful tips would be appreciated.
    https://www.vrt.be/nl/over-de-vrt/nieuws/
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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