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  1. #106
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
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  3. #107
    Member on Sabbatical Aianawa's Avatar
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    headin to the brink buy the looks of that, dear oh dear

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  5. #108
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    Israel continues it's war crimes with the support of US while the world doesn't do anything about it.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peI9kXDoOEI
    "The more I see, the less I know for sure." ~ John Lennon

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  7. #109
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Israel continues it's war crimes with the support of US while the world doesn't do anything about it.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peI9kXDoOEI

    That footage is just heartbreaking.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  9. #110
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    That footage is just heartbreaking.
    How about this then?


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwWzxzYNfMA


    Historian Explains How The U.S. Was An OBSTACLE To A Two-State Solution With Israel, Palestine


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNyREhhySYQ
    "The more I see, the less I know for sure." ~ John Lennon

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  11. #111
    Senior Member Chuckie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    How about this then?


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwWzxzYNfMA


    Historian Explains How The U.S. Was An OBSTACLE To A Two-State Solution With Israel, Palestine


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNyREhhySYQ
    I'm thanking those posts but I don't fully agree with them. We live in a two-sided world and we have very little choice but to live in it. A VERY bad marriage is a proper euphemism...

    If the U.S. has to take the blame when do they get the credit?
    “I am a social justice...advocate and I say, "Stop the Hate!"

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  13. #112
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    The two-state solution has been a diplomatic failure. It’s also still the best answer we’ve got
    Chris McGreal

    The real obstacle has been Benjamin Netanyahu, who has been in power for nearly half the time since the idea was floated

    Mon 6 Nov 2023 14.07 EST
    The two-state solution could do with a rebrand.

    The optimism that greeted the Oslo peace accords between Israel and the Palestinians three decades ago has long since given way to eye rolling and grimaces among politicians and diplomats at any mention of the “peace process”. For years, they have been obliged to pay lip service to the vision while, in practice, many were resigned to the two-state solution as a byword for failure and a cover for inaction. Mostly they tried to avoid talking about it at all.

    But now the two-state solution is showing its face in public again. In the wake of the Hamas cross-border attack from Gaza, and the Israeli assault on the Palestinian enclave in response, President Joe Biden is punting the peace process back on to the agenda. “When this crisis is over, there has to be a vision of what comes next. And in our view, it has to be a two-state solution,” he said. “And that means a concentrated effort for all the parties – Israelis, Palestinians, regional partners, global leaders – to put us on a path toward peace.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...state-solution
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  15. #113
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    If the U.S. has to take the blame when do they get the credit?
    When they do the right thing. I don't see that happening very often, at least not in this case.

    Zionists are the problem with US and the ultra right wing government of Israel and it's settlers stealing Palestinian land.
    "The more I see, the less I know for sure." ~ John Lennon

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  17. #114
    Member on Sabbatical Aianawa's Avatar
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    Who's worst game needs a hero lol

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  19. #115
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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    Who's worst game needs a hero lol

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gfIgA-PYyQ
    "The more I see, the less I know for sure." ~ John Lennon

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  21. #116
    Senior Member Chuckie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    When they do the right thing. I don't see that happening very often, at least not in this case.

    Zionists are the problem with US and the ultra right wing government of Israel and it's settlers stealing Palestinian land.
    What is the right thing, Wind? Biden's administration is making strong efforts to put shackles on Netanyahu...Netanyahu is a sovereign leader and a pivotal poker chip in the world's balance of power. What would you have the U.S. do? Take over Israel? Is that what the world is pushing for? Bomb it into oblivion? Those are neither reasonable or practical solutions to a very serious problem caused by post World War II worldviews which were the vestiges of true empire. It is up to the players in that game to get off their asses and help fix the problem. Russia? Yeah right...

    The Russians had envisioned a binational state but at the last moment opted for Zionism. The UN General Assembly vote on 29 November 1947 in favour of the partition of Palestine, which led to the creation of the state of Israel, would have never happened without strong Soviet advocacy.

    Creation of Israel, 1948
    On May 14, 1948, David Ben-Gurion, the head of the Jewish Agency, proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel. U.S. President Harry S. Truman recognized the new nation on the same day.

    Although the United States supported the Balfour Declaration of 1917, which favored the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine, President Franklin D. Roosevelt had assured the Arabs in 1945 that the United States would not intervene without consulting both the Jews and the Arabs in that region. The British, who held a colonial mandate for Palestine until May 1948, opposed both the creation of a Jewish state and an Arab state in Palestine as well as unlimited immigration of Jewish refugees to the region. Great Britain wanted to preserve good relations with the Arabs to protect its vital political and economic interests in Palestine.

    Soon after President Truman took office, he appointed several experts to study the Palestinian issue. In the summer of 1946, Truman established a special cabinet committee under the chairmanship of Dr. Henry F. Grady, an Assistant Secretary of State, who entered into negotiations with a parallel British committee to discuss the future of Palestine. In May 1946, Truman announced his approval of a recommendation to admit 100,000 displaced persons into Palestine and in October publicly declared his support for the creation of a Jewish state. Throughout 1947, the United Nations Special Commission on Palestine examined the Palestinian question and recommended the partition of Palestine into a Jewish and an Arab state. On November 29, 1947 the United Nations adopted Resolution 181 (also known as the Partition Resolution) that would divide Great Britain’s former Palestinian mandate into Jewish and Arab states in May 1948 when the British mandate was scheduled to end. Under the resolution, the area of religious significance surrounding Jerusalem would remain a corpus separatum under international control administered by the United Nations.

    Although the United States backed Resolution 181, the U.S. Department of State recommended the creation of a United Nations trusteeship with limits on Jewish immigration and a division of Palestine into separate Jewish and Arab provinces but not states. The State Department, concerned about the possibility of an increasing Soviet role in the Arab world and the potential for restriction by Arab oil producing nations of oil supplies to the United States, advised against U.S. intervention on behalf of the Jews. Later, as the date for British departure from Palestine drew near, the Department of State grew concerned about the possibility of an all-out war in Palestine as Arab states threatened to attack almost as soon as the UN passed the partition resolution.

    Despite growing conflict between Palestinian Arabs and Palestinian Jews and despite the Department of State’s endorsement of a trusteeship, Truman ultimately decided to recognize the state Israel.
    Last edited by Chuckie, 4th December 2023 at 11:31.
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  23. #117
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    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    What is the right thing, Wind? Biden's administration is making strong efforts to put shackles on Netanyahu...
    That's bullshit. Netanyahoo was given the green light and only now that Biden's poll numbers are dropping with muslim voters he is starting to maybe lose his patience a tiny bit with Israel, but I still don't see any real signs of change. That's why Joe will probably lose to Trump and one could say it is deserved. What US could do for starters is stop vetoing and blocking UN Security Council resolutions that were critical of Israel and stop supporting them with ammunition and weapons. The hypocrisy is staggering. Yet Ukraine is also expected to gather all the support while Putin is called the evil guy who is destroying Ukraine like Netanyahoo is destroying Gaza? Half of the apartments are gone in Gaza now, a million people displaced. It's called ethnic cleansing and genocide. Israel was formed because of the atrocities in the last century and now they are continuing that kind of abhorrent behaviour with the support of US. It's ok to try to save Ukrainian people, but not Palestinians? Why not, are they too brown and too muslim? The fact of the matter is that all of them are innocent people suffering. Palestinians are not the same as Hamas and Hamas is also response to the decades long Israeli occupation.
    "The more I see, the less I know for sure." ~ John Lennon

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  25. #118
    Senior Member Chuckie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    That's bullshit. Netanyahoo was given the green light and only now that Biden's poll numbers are dropping with muslim voters he is starting to maybe lose his patience a tiny bit with Israel, but I still don't see any real signs of change. That's why Joe will probably lose to Trump and one could say it is deserved. What US could do for starters is stop vetoing and blocking UN Security Council resolutions that were critical of Israel and stop supporting them with ammunition and weapons. The hypocrisy is staggering. Yet Ukraine is also expected to gather all the support while Putin is called the evil guy who is destroying Ukraine like Netanyahoo is destroying Gaza? Half of the apartments are gone in Gaza now, a million people displaced. It's called ethnic cleansing and genocide. Israel was formed because of the atrocities in the last century and now they are continuing that kind of abhorrent behaviour with the support of US. It's ok to try to save Ukrainian people, but not Palestinians? Why not, are they too brown and too muslim? The fact of the matter is that all of them are innocent people suffering. Palestinians are not the same as Hamas and Hamas is also response to the decades long Israeli occupation.
    No, it's the truth...situations evolve as this one has. You have to understand what drives the 'man' as well as what drives the 'action'. That is why I always look to what is inside first because that is where one can start to look for right or wrong.
    “I am a social justice...advocate and I say, "Stop the Hate!"

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  27. #119
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
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  29. #120
    Senior Member Chuckie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    That's bullshit. Netanyahoo was given the green light and only now that Biden's poll numbers are dropping with muslim voters he is starting to maybe lose his patience a tiny bit with Israel, but I still don't see any real signs of change. That's why Joe will probably lose to Trump and one could say it is deserved. What US could do for starters is stop vetoing and blocking UN Security Council resolutions that were critical of Israel and stop supporting them with ammunition and weapons. The hypocrisy is staggering. Yet Ukraine is also expected to gather all the support while Putin is called the evil guy who is destroying Ukraine like Netanyahoo is destroying Gaza? Half of the apartments are gone in Gaza now, a million people displaced. It's called ethnic cleansing and genocide. Israel was formed because of the atrocities in the last century and now they are continuing that kind of abhorrent behaviour with the support of US. It's ok to try to save Ukrainian people, but not Palestinians? Why not, are they too brown and too muslim? The fact of the matter is that all of them are innocent people suffering. Palestinians are not the same as Hamas and Hamas is also response to the decades long Israeli occupation.
    I saw the ammunition thing earlier...How dependent is Israel on American munitions? I've never looked at this but initially it hit me as Why? Not worth saving? That is hardly the issue, the issue is that two countries are only one country. One has to have faith in something. We can all wish that Biden could categorically tell Israel to just stop and perhaps that would be the most correct thing to do. But one has to ask the question if the U.S. has any moral responsibility to Israel. Israel has gained significant Zionistic ground at the behest of the U.S. for years - courtesy of the right, starting with the Obama administration, the U.S. started to try walking away from Netanyahu's fascism. Bear in mind that in the bare mind, Obama was a Muslim and obviously in favor of the Palestinians. Things are rarely as simple as they seem and it is always easy to take sides. Yeah, kill the Israelis, I'm good with that...they are after all wrong and have mistreated the Palestinians for decades and NOW they've done it. They forced the palestinians to bomb and kill their Jewish children with impunity.
    “I am a social justice...advocate and I say, "Stop the Hate!"

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