If Not Trump

[Diabolical Boids]

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjkcB6angec

Every time (weekly it seems) I see another Joe Biden fall, I hear my mother's voice in my head, (Deep Southern Accent) Thereeis. With his ass turned up in the are a'gin like Ger Elt Fort. I'm fixin' to right a sinnator 'bout this.

I never got over how she said Senator. Sinnator. So appropriate.

[Aragorn]

Hey, I'm wearing my Bud T-shirt right now!

Ah, so you too are already prepared for the mass landing of the Galactic Lite Crew with their frosty Bud Lights.

Absolutely! Should be a great party too, with live music from Elvis, Jimi Hendrix, Prince, Freddy Mercury, Stevie Ray Vaughan, David Bowie, Gary Moore, and all those other artists they've beamed up over the years!

[Diabolical Boids]

Ah, so you too are already prepared for the mass landing of the Galactic Lite Crew with their frosty Bud Lights.

Hopefully their version of Bud Light is better than the American label which is drank frosty cold to mask the fact it has a vague taste but you can't figure out what it is.

[Aragorn]

Hopefully their version of Bud Light is better than the American label which is drank frosty cold to mask the fact it has a vague taste but you can't figure out what it is.

Well, I've tasted Bud in my time — albeit not the Light/Lite variety — and over here, they serve beer chilled but not frosty, and so I could taste it. But let me tell you, it doesn't even taste half as bad as the alcohol-free beer they serve over here under the brand name Tourtel, because that tastes like dishwashing water.

[Diabolical Boids]

I hope there are some Blue Chickens aboard, I'm still looking forward to meeting them. If things don't turn out well, one can always have spiced chicken wings with Bud Light.



I had a dream just before waking, it was a family group situation and everyone was against me...it seems no matter the motivation a bad person is a bad person. the only one that was more neutral was a very old friend.

Did you ever consider everyone was against you because you were the bad person in that particular situation?

In terms of self development the biggest growth comes from realizing that you are not always the victim but often the perpetrator.

[Aragorn]

Did you ever consider everyone was against you because you were the bad person in that particular situation?

In terms of self development the biggest growth comes from realizing that you are not always the victim but often the perpetrator.

Although sometimes true, it can just as easily be a concerted effort to instill a guilt trip into somebody, or to make somebody feel inferior, make them feel that they don't belong, and completely destroy their self-esteem.

I myself have legitimately been on the receiving end of both of those tactics, and for many years. The perpetrators of the former were my own parents, and of the latter, my classmates (and some of their friends from outside of the group) when I was in high school.

Just because a certain rule or a certain opinion is held by a majority — whichever majority it may be — doesn't mean that it's the correct rule or the correct opinion.

Just sayin'...

[Emil El Zapato]

Did you ever consider everyone was against you because you were the bad person in that particular situation?

In terms of self development the biggest growth comes from realizing that you are not always the victim but often the perpetrator.

Of course, I've considered it, that was the reason for the post...and I agree with Aragorn, I have many times been in that situation and in the same ways. But here's the thing, it doesn't happen when I interact with my 'own kind'. And it happens rarely when I regularly interact with anyone individual.

I disagree with most of what is considered 'in' here and yes, I can be nasty...I never realized how good at being nasty I was until I got to these forums. My mind and psychology were built for it. IN the distant past when I was 'ganged' up on, it meant open warfare for me. I've improved since then but mostly because Aragorn keeps a tight lid on me which I find extremely frustrating but that's his role.

But this I will insist upon, I give what I get...A shrink once told me that was a bad idea, in fact, a close conservative Texan whiteboy friend once told me that it was a bad idea...he himself was slicker and cooler than an Arctic seal. But other close friends of the same ilk and otherwise didn't like him because he was a power seeker. As George Thorogood once said, "that don't confront me none"...if and only if there are other redeeming qualities.

Back to the point, I am willing to treat with respect any idea but I expect to be able to disagree and share mine while accorded the same respect. That doesn't happen very often.

I forgot to add that in my dream, my stepdaughter was cold and I made my dad cry and start babbling in a strange language which was essentially nonsensical...my friend just looked at me while trying to interpret my dad's words. And there was an unknown dude off to the side just listening with a keen ear. He had to be a therapist.

[Diabolical Boids]

Although sometimes true, it can just as easily be a concerted effort to instill a guilt trip into somebody, or to make somebody feel inferior, make them feel that they don't belong, and completely destroy their self-esteem.

I myself have legitimately been on the receiving end of both of those tactics, and for many years. The perpetrators of the former were my own parents, and of the latter, my classmates (and some of their friends from outside of the group) when I was in high school.

Just because a certain rule or a certain opinion is held by a majority — whichever majority it may be — doesn't mean that it's the correct rule or the correct opinion.

Just sayin'...

True. The persistent victim mentality wants to make people feel guilty and so does the narcissist when things don't go their way. They may be going the way they need to but just not the way the victim and the narcissist want them to. That very much is tied into politics where we have nothing but victims and narcissists.

Of course, I've considered it, that was the reason for the post...and I agree with Aragorn, I have many times been in that situation and in the same ways. But here's the thing, it doesn't happen when I interact with my 'own kind'. And it happens rarely when I regularly interact with anyone individual.

I disagree with most of what is considered 'in' here and yes, I can be nasty...I never realized how good at being nasty I was until I got to these forums. My mind and psychology were built for it. IN the distant past when I was 'ganged' up on, it meant open warfare for me. I've improved since then but mostly because Aragorn keeps a tight lid on me which I find extremely frustrating but that's his role.

But this I will insist upon, I give what I get...A shrink once told me that was a bad idea, in fact, a close conservative Texan whiteboy friend once told me that it was a bad idea...he himself was slicker and cooler than an Arctic seal. But other close friends of the same ilk and otherwise didn't like him because he was a power seeker. As George Thorogood once said, "that don't confront me none"...if and only if there are other redeeming qualities.

Back to the point, I am willing to treat with respect any idea but I expect to be able to disagree and share mine while accorded the same respect. That doesn't happen very often.

I forgot to add that in my dream, my stepdaughter was cold and I made my dad cry and start babbling in a strange language which was essentially nonsensical...my friend just looked at me while trying to interpret my dad's words. And there was an unknown dude off to the side just listening with a keen ear. He had to be a therapist.

I only bring it up because you make pretty regular statements about people being against you here and abroad and even in your dreams.

[Wind]

I myself have legitimately been on the receiving end of both of those tactics, and for many years. The perpetrators of the former were my own parents, and of the latter, my classmates (and some of their friends from outside of the group) when I was in high school.

I thought that high schools were places where young people were more "mature" and bullying was mostly nonexistent. I wouldn't really know if that was true, because bullying in my case in school had done it's job and my high school trip didn't turn out to be very long as I became a dropout. The reason for that was mainly my anxiety. I just no longer could tolerate it in a school class anymore and I called it quits, I don't like to be a quitter and it's not something I should have started but at least I tried. Also I was two years older than my peers and had no one that I knew there. Sometimes I wonder how things might have turned out differently had I not had that anxiety and other issues stemming both from bullying etc.

In my understanding often especially people in the autistic spectrum tend to be on the receiving end when it comes to bullying and they can lack the tough skin that so called normal people might have. Or at least there are impairments in social interactions which complicates things more. Usually it takes long into adulthood for such people to develop their intuition more with people and even they they can fall prey victim for predators.

I don't believe in smacking sense into kids although some certainly can be brats and assholes who would deserve to get punched by their peers and perhaps they sometimes get what they deserve too. Neither do I believe that we should cater to the needs of the ultra-neurotic who demand in their ultra victim mentality that society becomes too docile and no one can say or do anything because someone might get offended.

There should be some kind of a middle ground which reinforces young people to become healthy, stable individuals and whatever neurotic impulses there might be then they could be tamed with whatever methods that would work for them. Then again, it's not something we might see in todays society when the small, but vocal neurotic minority might rule things at least in certain places. Then the hard conservatives come against it demanding that things would stay like the day during the "good old days" when women had to shut up and put up, stay in the kitchen making sandwiches and other ethnic and sexual minorities had little to none human rights and everyone just should read the Bible from cover to cover every week and whip themselves for their sins. That's a caricature, but I think you get my point.

[Diabolical Boids]

I thought that high schools were places where young people were more "mature" and bullying was mostly nonexistent. I wouldn't really know if that was true, because bullying in my case in school had done it's job and my high school trip didn't turn out to be very long as I became a dropout. The reason for that was mainly my anxiety. I just no longer could tolerate it in a school class anymore and I called it quits, I don't like to be a quitter and it's not something I should have started but at least I tried. Also I was two years older than my peers and had no one that I knew there. Sometimes I wonder how things might have turned out differently had I not had that anxiety and other issues stemming both from bullying etc.

In my understanding often especially people in the autistic spectrum tend to be on the receiving end when it comes to bullying and they can lack the tough skin that so called normal people might have. Or at least there are impairments in social interactions which complicates things more. Usually it takes long into adulthood for such people to develop their intuition more with people and even they they can fall prey victim for predators.

I don't believe in smacking sense into kids although some certainly can be brats and assholes who would deserve to get punched by their peers and perhaps they sometimes get what they deserve too. Neither do I believe that we should cater to the needs of the ultra-neurotic who demand in their ultra victim mentality that society becomes too docile and no one can say or do anything because someone might get offended.

There should be some kind of a middle ground which reinforces young people to become healthy, stable individuals and whatever neurotic impulses there might be then they could be tamed with whatever methods that would work for them. Then again, it's not something we might see in todays society when the small, but vocal neurotic minority might rule things at least in certain places. Then the hard conservatives come against it demanding that things would stay like the day during the "good old days" when women had to shut up and put up, stay in the kitchen making sandwiches and other ethnic and sexual minorities had little to none human rights and everyone just should read the Bible from cover to cover every week and whip themselves for their sins. That's a caricature, but I think you get my point.

The bullying seems to be less prevalent in Highschool than middle school. Something about puberty, that's fore sure.

We did have a middle ground at one time. A parent, usually the mother stayed home and had ample time to rear kids. It wasn't a conservative thing, thats what women do. Or did until politics told us it was unnatural.

You know all my aunties grew up in rural, very conservative south. REALLY conservative. And religious. They were all stay at home, stay in the kitchen, mothers back in the "good old days" of female suppression. No sandwiches for them. Women cooked then, three squares a day. They homeschooled and took their kids to public school. And that left them with ample time to do whatever they wanted. Cook, craft, visit with family and friends, take the kids off for a vacation sans husband.

All of my aunts said they had more freedom to do as they wanted once the age of their children allowed than any liberal woman today who always seems angry and unhappy. Once their kids were of age they got a part time job or helped out with the family business or went to school. In the meantime, they did whatever they wanted and didn't seem particularly constrained by their husbands. they were provided for more than adequately because all that husband support resulted in a husband that really brought in the bread. A lot of it, all of them self-employed and independently well off if not wealthy well before retirement age. Actually, it seemed the women ruled the roost most of the time. I'd love to see anyone attempt to 'beat' them. Those Smoky Mountain gals have got iron in their spines. Maybe it was the city women who were that oppressed? And made sandwiches?

A lot of women are realizing that feminine empowerment sent them a bad hand. They have to work, be away from their kids, if they can ever afford to have them at all or are too weary to consider it, be responsible for home and school and work, find an adequate wage to make it worth working at all, they are stressed, claim they have no leisure time and no money. Especially the single ones, with children or not. Once a woman pays for childcare costs and the costs of not being at home, it doesn't really pay.

My aunts laughed to the bank at these women who had the 'Luxury and Freedom' of working.

[Aragorn]

This is completely dragging the thread off-topic — which is wrong, even though I personally really can't muster any sympathy for yet another thread on this forum about US-internal political affairs — but I do feel like I need to offer a modicum of context with the below quotes...

I myself have legitimately been on the receiving end of both of those tactics, and for many years. The perpetrators of the former were my own parents, and of the latter, my classmates (and some of their friends from outside of the group) when I was in high school.

I thought that high schools were places where young people were more "mature" and bullying was mostly nonexistent.

The thing is that I had already long been a bully victim — essentially ever since I started attending school — due to the fact that I was such an easy target. I was a very gentle and docile boy. And one of the kids I grew up with — I won't get into too many details, but we were from the same village, he's exactly one week older than I am, there were several parallels between his life and mine, we both played musical instruments, and I have known him since kindergarten, even though we've never been friends — ended up in my class group when I entered high school.

This guy was/is an alpha male and a narcissist, and he has no qualm about using and manipulating people. He also always aligned himself with the tough guys in every class group — you know, the ones who always end up sitting at the back of the classroom — because he also thought of himself as cool and tough. And for some reason, this guy has always disliked or hated me — I've never known why, but he in turn was not the kind of person I wanted to hang out with either, because he was the kind that always got himself into trouble — and he was the one who started the bullying spree, presumably because he thought of me as some kind of competition. But sitting there at the back of the classroom, he soon became buddies with another narcissistic character, who also happened to have a severe degree of ADHD — he was loud, wild, and he always wanted to be at the center of attention.

The guy I had "grown up with" left the school after one year in order to switch toward a different educational direction that was not offered at our school, but his buddy remained in my class group, and then he immediately took over as the leader of the pack, carrying on with the bullying.

I guess that for them, it was just a way to channel their aggression. Some of the bullies actually turned out quite nice if you caught them outside of school, and some would even display a bit of remorse over the role they had been playing while in school.

As for my parents, that was just them taking out their own frustrations on me — my dad was in a wheelchair and my mom was an alcoholic — and for that matter, not just on me, because my brother caught some of that too, albeit that he was very outdoorsy and would quickly get on his bicycle and ride off whenever he felt the heat rising. But I was a very introverted and indoorsy kid, and so I was — again — an easy target.

Anyway, I don't want to get too deep into this here, because this is all off-topic.

[Emil El Zapato]

True. The persistent victim mentality wants to make people feel guilty and so does the narcissist when things don't go their way. They may be going the way they need to but just not the way the victim and the narcissist want them to. That very much is tied into politics where we have nothing but victims and narcissists.



I only bring it up because you make pretty regular statements about people being against you here and abroad and even in your dreams.

Understood, but the bottom line as you and others have insisted upon on occasion is that I don't have 'daddy issues'. (What I meant was, I do not have daddy issues) Before he died my younger brother asked me to consider visiting my dad because if I didn't I would feel guilty later. I, quite unemotionally told him that I wouldn't, I had 'resolved' an understanding that my dad, though not a bad person, didn't 'get' familial relationships from any other perspective than his own, which was limited to "I'm the boss!" and he was very much on parenting, more so actually, on human autopilot. I accepted that and even kept my daughter away from him for those same reasons. He died and the one thing I did regret was that I wasn't there to watch him die to see if I could 'witness' any of the things that are considered paranormal. I mourned his final going away but foremost in my thoughts was the 'awareness' that when he got to the other side, he would recognize his mistakes and truly regret them.

That was the extent of it...(I know this post is a long way from Trump and for once, I see no parallel connection). So, in short, off topic.

[Diabolical Boids]

Understood, but the bottom line as you and others have insisted upon on occasion is that I don't have 'daddy issues'. Before he died my younger brother asked me to consider visiting my dad because if I didn't I would feel guilty later. I, quite unemotionally told him that I wouldn't, I had 'resolved' an understanding that my dad, though not a bad person, didn't 'get' familial relationships from any other perspective than his own, which was limited to "I'm the boss!" and he was very much on parenting, more so actually, on human autopilot. I accepted that and even kept my daughter away from him for those same reasons. He died and the one thing I did regret was that I wasn't there to watch him die to see if I could 'witness' any of the things that are considered paranormal. I mourned his final going away but foremost in my thoughts was the 'awareness' that when he got to the other side, he would recognize his mistakes and truly regret them.

That was the extent of it...(I know this post is a long way from Trump and for once, I see no parallel connection). So, in short, off topic.

The parallel connection is that we don't have a political divide in America we have a psychological divide. With one side or the other drifting, off to one political party or the other that most reflects their issues.

I for one never denied you didn't have daddy issues. I only stated that your daddy issue caused another deeper and more destructive issue.

This is completely dragging the thread off-topic — which is wrong, even though I personally really can't muster any sympathy for yet another thread on this forum about US-internal political affairs — but I do feel like I need to offer a modicum of context with the below quotes...




The thing is that I had already long been a bully victim — essentially ever since I started attending school — due to the fact that I was such an easy target. I was a very gentle and docile boy. And one of the kids I grew up with — I won't get into too many details, but we were from the same village, he's exactly one week older than I am, there were several parallels between his life and mine, we both played musical instruments, and I have known him since kindergarten, even though we've never been friends — ended up in my class group when I entered high school.

This guy was/is an alpha male and a narcissist, and he has no qualm about using and manipulating people. He also always aligned himself with the tough guys in every class group — you know, the ones who always end up sitting at the back of the classroom — because he also thought of himself as cool and tough. And for some reason, this guy has always disliked or hated me — I've never known why, but he in turn was not the kind of person I wanted to hang out with either, because he was the kind that always got himself into trouble — and he was the one who started the bullying spree, presumably because he thought of me as some kind of competition. But sitting there at the back of the classroom, he soon became buddies with another narcissistic character, who also happened to have a severe degree of ADHD — he was loud, wild, and he always wanted to be at the center of attention.

The guy I had "grown up with" left the school after one year in order to switch toward a different educational direction that was not offered at our school, but his buddy remained in my class group, and then he immediately took over as the leader of the pack, carrying on with the bullying.

I guess that for them, it was just a way to channel their aggression. Some of the bullies actually turned out quite nice if you caught them outside of school, and some would even display a bit of remorse over the role they had been playing while in school.

As for my parents, that was just them taking out their own frustrations on me — my dad was in a wheelchair and my mom was an alcoholic — and for that matter, not just on me, because my brother caught some of that too, albeit that he was very outdoorsy and would quickly get on his bicycle and ride off whenever he felt the heat rising. But I was a very introverted and indoorsy kid, and so I was — again — an easy target.

Anyway, I don't want to get too deep into this here, because this is all off-topic.

Thanks for sharing that. I had no idea that happened outside of the US. Or so we were told.

[Aragorn]

Thanks for sharing that. I had no idea that happened outside of the US. Or so we were told.

Oh yeah. And it was a renowned Catholic, boys-only school — the ultimate breeding ground for alpha males. Nowadays single-sex schools are not allowed anymore, but this was the 1978-1981 time frame of which I'm speaking, and apart from the college and university levels, only the public school network was co-ed.

Most of the time, my parents had no idea of what was going on with me at school, for most part because they were too absorbed by their own problems. They were aware of earlier issues from elementary school — it was the same school — and my middle school years had been relatively easy, but up until high school, I had also always had several good friends within my class group, and so I had never stood alone. But in high school that was no longer the case, because that was where students had to choose the direction toward what they wanted to graduate in, and so many of my earlier friends went to a different school or ended up in an entirely different direction within the same school.

When I tried to tell my mother about my issues in high school one time, she cut me off with the words "We've got our own problems. You deal with yours." Being autistic — and undiagnosed at that point in time — I took that quite literally, and so I simply never made any attempt ever again at telling them about it.

Of course, there were a few times when the bullying had taken on such proportions that my parents couldn't ignore it, such as when I came home from school with my jacket all torn, or that time when I came home and was unable to utter any sound other than a hiss, because the guys sitting in front of me and behind me had been pounding their fists on my chest all the time in mid-class. It was a chemistry class and it was the last hour of the day, and for that one hour, we had a one-time-only substitute teacher, fresh out of college. Although visibly embarrassed, he clearly didn't know how to handle the situation, and so he simply opted to ignore it. Judging by the chuckles, the rest of the class was obviously audibly amused by the loud thumping sound that the bullies' fists made on my upper body.

And then of course my parents would immediately contact the school, but then the school's reply would always be one of two possible choices. Either it was "We have no knowledge of what you're telling us. This is a respectable school and that kind of thing just doesn't happen here", or else it would be "It's your son's own fault. He is eliciting this behavior from the other students because he's attention-starved."

And then of course, my parents would blame me — their favorite disposition, and I could give you another example of that, albeit that said example has nothing to do with high school — because "The school must be right. The school is always going to be right, because they are educated people."



Again, this was the 1978-1981 time frame, back when a teacher's or principal's word was The Gospel™ — and especially if it was a Catholic school — unlike today, where the students and their parents go to the school together to kick the teacher's ass — and sometimes quite literally too.

[Emil El Zapato]

Oh yeah. And it was a renowned Catholic, boys-only school — the ultimate breeding ground for alpha males. Nowadays single-sex schools are not allowed anymore, but this was the 1978-1981 time frame of which I'm speaking, and apart from the college and university levels, only the public school network was co-ed.

Most of the time, my parents had no idea of what was going on with me at school, for most part because they were too absorbed by their own problems. They were aware of earlier issues from elementary school — it was the same school — and my middle school years had been relatively easy, but up until high school, I had also always had several good friends within my class group, and so I had never stood alone. But in high school that was no longer the case, because that was where students had to choose the direction toward what they wanted to graduate in, and so many of my earlier friends went to a different school or ended up in an entirely different direction within the same school.

When I tried to tell my mother about my issues in high school one time, she cut me off with the words "We've got our own problems. You deal with yours." Being autistic — and undiagnosed at that point in time — I took that quite literally, and so I simply never made any attempt ever again at telling them about it.

Of course, there were a few times when the bullying had taken on such proportions that my parents couldn't ignore it, such as when I came home from school with my jacket all torn, or that time when I came home and was unable to utter any sound other than a hiss, because the guys sitting in front of me and behind me had been pounding their fists on my chest all the time in mid-class. It was a chemistry class and it was the last hour of the day, and for that one hour, we had a one-time-only substitute teacher, fresh out of college. Although visibly embarrassed, he clearly didn't know how to handle the situation, and so he simply opted to ignore it. Judging by the chuckles, the rest of the class was obviously audibly amused by the loud thumping sound that the bullies' fists made on my upper body.

And then of course my parents would immediately contact the school, but then the school's reply would always be one of two possible choices. Either it was "We have no knowledge of what you're telling us. This is a respectable school and that kind of thing just doesn't happen here", or else it would be "It's your son's own fault. He is eliciting this behavior from the other students because he's attention-starved."

And then of course, my parents would blame me — their favorite disposition, and I could give you another example of that, albeit that said example has nothing to do with high school — because "The school must be right. The school is always going to be right, because they are educated people."



Again, this was the 1978-1981 time frame, back when a teacher's or principal's word was The Gospel™ — and especially if it was a Catholic school — unlike today, where the students and their parents go to the school together to kick the teacher's ass — and sometimes quite literally too.

Sounds like a parochial school to me and Catholic parents, as well, I only had one parent during my internment, but that was enough.