Wokeism

[Emil El Zapato]

A lot of good points there, and yes, I agree with you on account of the issues you address here-above. As the matter of fact, those are some of the very aspects of Wokeism™ that I personally detest the most.

I think what the whole so-called Social Justice™ debate is showing the most is that both sides of that equation have already gone way off the rails a long time ago, and — with the help of the mainstream media — to such an extent that anyone who finds themselves in disagreement with either of those two extremes is now considered abnormal and publicly chided for not choosing one side or the other.

If you don't agree that biological gender does not exist and that choosing one's gender identity must be a priority for 5-year-old children, then you are homophobic. Hell, I expect that it won't be all too long anymore before simply being heterosexual will be construed as homophobia somehow. And yet in the other vein, if you're not masturbating to the star-spangled banner every day with your other hand on the Bible, then you must be a dirty Libtard™ communist pedophile reptilian from the 137th dimension who eats babies for breakfast and smokes joints that are laced with adrenochrome.

Humans...

Stoopid hoomans.

[Diabolical Boids]

Ok. Sure.

I think a more nuanced look would benefit here. There's a difference in reasonable discussion. or even reasonable laws. Or exclusive and painful agenda pushing through laws.
That said. Do you have information that people from the lgbtq community feel safe and welcome in their country? and this is yet another media circus?

I would really like to help set someones mind at ease about this. But find it increasingly difficult to rearrange the words spoken in a way that make him see the "sense" and protectional side of those laws.

A more in depth look would cause a lot less fear, and the news doesn't' give access to the laws and bills which don't have anything to do with gay people. The news made it about gay people not the legislation.

The nice thing about America is you want a education systems that teaches nothing but gender studies and homosexuality you are free to build one. But you can't force every child to go there. Or strip every parent of their rights if they don't a stranger teaching them to masturbate.

I posted a link to Gays Against Groomers. Clearly they don't feel safe because in part their community is targeted, so are their kids by exploiters and groomers. And they have the most to lose.


The institutions pushing a child exploitation agenda are hiding behind and USING the LGBTQ community as a beard. That community has worked for forty years to separate themselves from the label of deviant and pervert and child exploiters have arranged it so they can exploit and traffic children and the LGBTQ community will take the blame.

So no the entire point of the lobby is that they don't feel safe.

But find it increasingly difficult to rearrange the words spoken in a way that make him see the "sense" and protectional side of those laws.

I don't understand. You have a friend that can't grasp why we have to have laws that protect children? We have an entire history filled for the need to protect children from being trafficked into sex work, from child labor . Why is the focus on America when five-year-olds are being exploited in Africa and mining lithium for electric vehicles?

Can you explain further? Why can't they understand that? Previous abuse?

If you have twitter or Facebook go find how GAG addresses situations like that. Some of their discussions are heated, and kind of like "If you don't see the need for child protection laws, you might be a groomer yourself."

Otherwise I suggest you show the legislation.

If we had actual legislation against gay people or singled out any demographic the explosion here would have heard across the pond.

Children are a touchy subject. Even the nicest most well balanced, "love and accept everyone" kind of person is going to get snarly when it comes to children. It doesn't matter sex, creed or orientation or gender.

And clearly this has created a perhaps necessary schism in the LGBTQ community. It doesn't help the community to have child deviants and perverts, and sociopaths lurking there doing their dirty work and making sure the community gets blamed for for their dirty work for being 'gay'. They worked a long time to get rid of that stigma and child exploiters and their supporters just ensure they get worked over with a dirty brush again.

[Emil El Zapato]

There is a guy in my neighborhood that works for the local library branch that keeps a book bin in his yard for people to donate books, trade ...etc. It seems there is a pre-teen blonde kid that comes by on his bicycle and rummages through it, destroys some of them, and the last time there he took a couple of books about toddlers and threw them in a wet drainage sewer.

I mentioned the blonde thing because, on the board, most vandalism and crime shown are camera shots of minorities with the usual plethora of "If it was my property they would be dead".

The guy reporting it said he didn't want to cause issues for the kid but he wanted to let the kid's parents know. I suggested that maybe the kid thought the books were for 'grooming'.

My point is that it is an example of hysteria from the right, the kid looks and acts like the next-generation Neo-Nazi though he still has his hair at this point and was well groomed The point is he's not trailer trash, just f*cked up in the head. Seriously an 11-year-old burning books, how cool is that? I'm not bs'ing about this.

[Diabolical Boids]

There is a guy in my neighborhood that works for the local library branch that keeps a book bin in his yard for people to donate books, trade ...etc. It seems there is a pre-teen blonde kid that comes by on his bicycle and rummages through it, destroys some of them, and the last time there he took a couple of books about toddlers and threw them in a wet drainage sewer.

I mentioned the blonde thing because, on the board, most vandalism and crime shown are camera shots of minorities with the usual plethora of "If it was my property they would be dead".

The guy reporting it said he didn't want to cause issues for the kid but he wanted to let the kid's parents know. I suggested that maybe the kid thought the books were for 'grooming'.

My point is that it is an example of hysteria from the right, the kid looks and acts like the next-generation Neo-Nazi though he still has his hair at this point and was well groomed The point is he's not trailer trash, just f*cked up in the head. Seriously an 11-year-old burning books, how cool is that? I'm not bs'ing about this.

Welp there's child grooming in a nutshell.

Thanks Exhibit A.

[Catsquotl]

But find it increasingly difficult to rearrange the words spoken in a way that make him see the "sense" and protectional side of those laws.

I don't understand. You have a friend that can't grasp why we have to have laws that protect children? We have an entire history filled for the need to protect children from being trafficked into sex work, from child labor . Why is the focus on America when five-year-olds are being exploited in Africa and mining lithium for electric vehicles?

Can you explain further? Why can't they understand that? Previous abuse?

I have a child who feels he was born in the wrong body.
So where I find it easy to keep things energy draining and cerebral when taking a bird eyes view of the situation.
From up close I can't help but experience a perception change...

[Fred Steeves]

I have a child who feels he was born in the wrong body.
So where I find it easy to keep things energy draining and cerebral when taking a bird eyes view of the situation.
From up close I can't help but experience a perception change...

Well now that's kind of where the rubber meets the road, isn't it? The problem I see with woke and the culture wars (sounds like a new band!) is not that subjects such as

Left/Right - Gay/Straight - Black/White - Woke/Non-Woke - etc.

are without merit, because they certainly are! It's just that they shouldn't be elevated to the point of all consuming, which is what's being done to us. There are things more important like war and peace, access to health care, homelessness, access to housing, access to healthy food, good paying jobs with benefits (and can you access the education to get one), etc.

These basics are essentially off the table mable so far as political discourse goes any more. There are sides to be taken, boxes to be checked off, do you pass this and that litmus test, and are your beliefs pure enough in these said secondary areas so as to not get booted from your particular chosen niche in this.

The big issues aren't even up for debate any more, they are what they are having already been dictated to us by the unaccountable technocrats, our only job now lays in where we choose to take our stand in the eternal Culture Civil War, which is ripping us to shreds from the top down. We're ripping each other to shreds, by design, because divided we are powerless.

[Catsquotl]

The big issues aren't even up for debate any more, they are what they are having already been dictated to us by the unaccountable technocrats, our only job now lays in where we choose to take our stand in the eternal Culture Civil War, which is ripping us to shreds from the top down. We're ripping each other to shreds, by design, because divided we are powerless.

This ^

[Emil El Zapato]

Welp there's child grooming in a nutshell.

Thanks Exhibit A.

Really?!

You mean grooming for the Neo-Nazi club?

I read a number of books for and about toddlers, am I grooming because I didn't realize it, I love children...they are what God intended for the universe. I'm getting the razor out right now!

I have a child who feels he was born in the wrong body.
So where I find it easy to keep things energy draining and cerebral when taking a bird eyes view of the situation.
From up close I can't help but experience a perception change...

This is probably a sensitive question for you, but do you feel your child was 'influenced' or is it just nature doing what it does?

[Catsquotl]

This is probably a sensitive question for you, but do you feel your child was 'influenced' or is it just nature doing what it does?

Only because this isn't a members only thread.
The not so nuanced answer would be that it doesn't matter.

Neither I nor he has a choice in the matter because it's an instinct/feeling question.
People are capable of making their own choices. So it is what it is.

[Emil El Zapato]

Only because this isn't a members only thread.
The not so nuanced answer would be that it doesn't matter.

Neither I nor he has a choice in the matter because it's an instinct/feeling question.
People are capable of making their own choices. So it is what it is.

yeah, I read that the other day that nearly 40% of Z'ers and 20% of millennials 'identify' as LGBT+. A line was drawn between 'identifying' versus living the lifestyle. I don't know...it is a pretty crazy number though.

you know, I wouldn't overthink it (if that is even possible) but in terms of actions and talking between you and your child, I would just be delicate (this is literally what I would do) with the questions and continue the dialogue (with considerations of your child's age) until it becomes clearer for them. If it reaches a given point I would definitely recommend professional counseling without 'waiting too long'. A person that is feeling those kinds of feelings can get pretty twisted up over time. So I wouldn't want to make that mistake. It's complicated...needless to say. You seem like a pretty cool guy by nature and not someone to prematurely jump so that is surely good for you.

[Catsquotl]

Ok

[Diabolical Boids]

Only because this isn't a members only thread.
The not so nuanced answer would be that it doesn't matter.

Neither I nor he has a choice in the matter because it's an instinct/feeling question.
People are capable of making their own choices. So it is what it is.

It does actually matter. Did they arrive at the conclusion they were in the wrong body the traditional way where something has been mentioned starting in early childhood, around ages 3-5 or did it come out of the blue, in adolescent right before puberty, during or 4-5 years afterwards?

The former means there's a good chance they are actually in the wrong body.

The latter means they had some "help" arriving to that conclusion that the first group doesn't have. Which could mean its not necessarily 'wrong body' it may be body dysphoria rather than gender dysphoria.

Body dysphoria presents as gender dysphoria but isn't the same thing.

[Diabolical Boids]

Really?!

You mean grooming for the Neo-Nazi club?

I read a number of books for and about toddlers, am I grooming because I didn't realize it, I love children...they are what God intended for the universe. I'm getting the razor out right now!



This is probably a sensitive question for you, but do you feel your child was 'influenced' or is it just nature doing what it does?

YES. Why ARE you so quick to massage the little bit of information you have about the child to present the CHILD as some sort of Neo Nazi right wing nut?

Yes the parents should be informed and the child kept under a closer eye as apparently there are predatory adults in the area looking to get their jollies off at the expense of the child. They may not traffic the child but they don't mind using the child to get something they want even if its defamatory or demeaning to the child.

That's exploitation of a child that doesn't know any better. Rummaging in a bin and then tossing out something that is not of interest to him doesn't mean the child is anything other than a child. But because of your bias and perception the child is suddenly vulnerable to predation the way perhaps a child that did the same thing but had a rainbow shirt wouldn't be.

You can USE the child to advance your own paranoia, the child can be exploited here, (drug off to a secret place and 'raped, as it were) and because it is a child it is INNOCENT, vulnerable to be used by an adult, its psychology exploited, a justifiable reason to demean the child give because you think you know your audience. Now its okay to abuse a conservative child because your audience is liberal?

A child is neither liberal nor conservative, they are minors.

It's suddenly okay to besmirch and use the child because it's of little value, the idea the child is a conservative or vested in some political party you don't agree with is an excuse and a reason to massage the info, so you can get attention and SELF Gratification. At their expense.

That's the mind of a child exploiter and groomer and molester.

[Diabolical Boids]

Ok

When my daughter "came out" as a lesbian at age 14 she thought that meant she would be allowed 'special privileges' that other gay kids were. As a parent it was not my job to make sure she free to be gay, it was my job to raise an educated decent human being who knew to try to fulfill her potentials regardless of orientation.

When we had "the" discussion, I told her I didn't care if she was gay but I was concerned she would be making things hard for herself and not everyone would be accepting like at school, etc.

Oh no. It seemed most of the school was lesbian or gay so I need not worry.

I thought that rather odd out in the middle of rural conservative milking community of 800 people that the middle school was a hot bed of alt lifestyle, lesbianism and swinging gaydom. Odd place for it.

Anyway she wanted permission to date.

Sure. She wanted to date girls, right?

Right!

We'd already established well before that at the age of 16 after she got her license she could date. I wanted her to be able to drive and take over in case someone was out drinking and things got out of hand. Gay or not kids, party, and get in trouble and drunk drive. That didn't change anything. She wasn't dating anyone, gay or not til she had her license, and was 16. I wanted her to be equipped to handle all situations to the best of her considerable ability (and she can and does) and to be able to take charge in world full of dumbasses and 'let's walk over the cliff blind" sort of people. Self management.

Gay or not she still had to focus on her education, her chores, her self development, her business, her animals, all her responsibilities because gay or not her job in life was to be learning how to be a grown up, not just be gay. And I the parent, it was up to me she didn't get all off track with life just because she was gay. It's not a career or a vocation in life. It's not a disability. She's not suddenly better than everyone because she was gay. She could expect NOT to be treated differently or better because she was gay its about sex.. It's not special or different (it was when I was her age but not now) and explained that to her. You are special to me but your orientation and choice is not particularly special. In all other respects she could be as gay as she wanted.

She already knew not to go back on her word and I said well there you go. Gay doesn't change that. You keep your word, gay or not.

And I have no idea what happened after that. She started dressing like that girl on Family Guy and that was about it.

Apparently other parents caved in on all parental restrictions because suddenly their child was like a special vase that must be put on a mantle and allowed just to be a special vase. Couldn't put no flowers in it. Schoolwork, homework, sports, band, previous commitments, part time jobs all went in the dumpster because now their children were GAY.

Because they their kids were GAY they felt like they no longer needed to be parents. They were suddenly special and non-parental because they had a gay child. All parental guidance and restriction went out the window because their child was gay.

Instead of their youth being about growing up it was all about being gay. So that was a fail. They ended up being dop outs, didn't go to college, were aimless activists regardless of how their orientation went. Lots of kids pulled out of it but I have no idea what happened with their orientation. .


By the time my daughter got her license to drive the gay thing was long in the past and forgotten about.

Not sure what that was all about but I never forgot that I was the parent.

My advice. You are the parent.

What does that mean to you?

I only had to know what it meant to me. Her orientation had absolutely nothing to do with me. But being the parent was had everything to do with her.

[Emil El Zapato]

YES. Why ARE you so quick to massage the little bit of information you have about the child to present the CHILD as some sort of Neo Nazi right wing nut?

Yes the parents should be informed and the child kept under a closer eye as apparently there are predatory adults in the area looking to get their jollies off at the expense of the child. They may not traffic the child but they don't mind using the child to get something they want even if its defamatory or demeaning to the child.

That's exploitation of a child that doesn't know any better. Rummaging in a bin and then tossing out something that is not of interest to him doesn't mean the child is anything other than a child. But because of your bias and perception the child is suddenly vulnerable to predation the way perhaps a child that did the same thing but had a rainbow shirt wouldn't be.

You can USE the child to advance your own paranoia, the child can be exploited here, (drug off to a secret place and 'raped, as it were) and because it is a child it is INNOCENT, vulnerable to be used by an adult, its psychology exploited, a justifiable reason to demean the child give because you think you know your audience. Now its okay to abuse a conservative child because your audience is liberal?

A child is neither liberal nor conservative, they are minors.

It's suddenly okay to besmirch and use the child because it's of little value, the idea the child is a conservative or vested in some political party you don't agree with is an excuse and a reason to massage the info, so you can get attention and SELF Gratification. At their expense.

That's the mind of a child exploiter and groomer and molester.

On the surface of it, that is a ridiculous statement.