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  1. #31
    Senior Member Lord Sidious's Avatar
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    The president isn't elected, they are appointed at the end of the day
    Ní siocháin go saoirse

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  3. #32
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Gosh so so sad but lol many gomer pyles and gilligans island types plus every captain of their own ship will be looking for land, any common sense land will do, hope oh hope recievith grace, what bollocks, 11.3 or doom is your feeling, really ?, we are in the most xciting time of our lives dear sad one.

    Feelings are the question, why we be here, feelings.

    Nope need to be anything, do anything but feelings, all day every day, feelings, simple yip indeed.

    Is it realllly your feelings Dia B ?

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  5. #33
    Senior Member Lord Sidious's Avatar
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    Fuckin translator is way overworked and on the blink again...................
    Ní siocháin go saoirse

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  7. #34
    Senior Member Morocco modwiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Lord Sidious View Post
    Fuckin translator is way overworked and on the blink again...................
    Must have to do with the pain body in the algorithim.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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  9. #35
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by modwiz View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Lord Sidious View Post
    Fuckin translator is way overworked and on the blink again...................
    Must have to do with the pain body in the algorithim.
    Hmm, I thought algae rhythms were created with a micro/macro eggy sampler.





    Ahem...

    Quote Originally posted by Lord Sidious View Post
    The president isn't elected, they are appointed at the end of the day
    And they retain their title for life — as do US governors. They can even insist on continuing to be addressed as such after they leave office.

    While in office, the US president also has the power to overrule the constitution and declare a nation-wide martial law — they are also the supreme commander of the military. Ergo, the USA doesn't have a president; it has an elected (or selected) emperor(/empress).
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  11. #36
    Senior Member United States Diabolical Boids's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    Gosh so so sad but lol many gomer pyles and gilligans island types plus every captain of their own ship will be looking for land, any common sense land will do, hope oh hope recievith grace, what bollocks, 11.3 or doom is your feeling, really ?, we are in the most xciting time of our lives dear sad one.

    Feelings are the question, why we be here, feelings.

    Nope need to be anything, do anything but feelings, all day every day, feelings, simple yip indeed.

    Is it realllly your feelings Dia B ?
    My feelings don't have anything to do with it. Feelings are to experience life with, not life itself. There are other expressions of the psyche. Elevated emotions, intuition, the sensation of high energies, manifestation, reasoning ability, spiritual connection, things of the spirit beyond simple chemical reaction. If we want a spiritual revolution in the US like Williamson pushed for we are going to have get rid of the sticky attachment to chemical reactions because where we work with spirit at has no sensation or feeling. I may have mentioned once (or five thousand times) chemical reactions are addictive and destructive.

    There's stuff happening for the good but we can't seem to get out of our own way.

    The system is rotten, why keep flogging it remain upright and breathing? Because its familiar. It's horrible like a bad abusive relationship but since its familiar we want to cling to it even if we are abused daily by it.

    I don't have a sense of impending doom but a time of difficult transition with people making things more difficult for themselves than it needs to be. I knew two decades ago people would start driving themselves crazy. This is more than politics it's what we are dumping in the energy fields that effect our bio fields that I would find alarming. It's turning people into either idiots or animals.

    But not a sense of doom; there is a natural order of correction when things go off course and I have a great deal of faith in it. It's not pretty and almost never comfortable but when you come out the otherside of it, it feels pretty damn good.

    Instead of doom try a sort of implacable necessity. Like going to get a tooth pulled without anesthesia. It sucks but if we can get to the other side of it, and we keep the right attitude its going to be better. But it won't be pretty, there will be fear, there will be blood, and spitting, pain and bad feelings, and people trying to gas or numb us back to insensibility or back to sleep. Right now we are just in the waiting room waiting. Or maybe compare it to labor pains and birth. New life can be a messy painful experience unless you prepare in advance and I doubt people are preparing.

    We've reached peak bad and if bad news can be good that's good.

    I'm looking way beyond elections. What's the point. People will just accept what they are given. If you put someone out there that seems popular it gives the impression of a legit election. The Biden insert was an anomaly. The DNC literally didn't have anyone appropriate to insert so the most unpopular choice was stuck in there and the media made a great show of popularity. Only people who believe the news think Biden is popular.

    We sit on an uneasy teeter totter of beliefs: Elections are rigged, elections are stolen, everyone is appointed.

    The only disclaimer is except when it comes to Biden who people everywhere insist is our true and legitimately elected president regardless of what side of the aisle they are on. They don't want Trump on the stage mirror their egoism and narcissism back at them. Biden's is monstrous too. Trump at least pretended to like people. Biden's contempt for everyone is so obvious its cringe but because he reminds of us our grandpa, what is familiar, it's okay.

    Of course the election wasn't stolen! That's a comforting but useless belief.

    Of course it was stolen.

    If we had free and fair elections Americans would still be voting based on their mommy and daddy issues so it doesn't matter anyway.

    They used to hide election rigging, theft and appointment, so there was at a 'feeling' of having free elections. They don't hide theft anymore. They didn't hide what they did to Bernie Sanders twice in a row, they don't have to anymore. If you watch the news or politicians in the US, it's just people in DC laughing at us.

    So its not feelings, its not even what intuition tells me, its what is observable now.

    And honestly if America was going to come back from the trajectory its been it was probably too late in 2000. And in the 80's. Or before I was born. All these good old days we believe we need to return to are days when we BELIEVED we lived in the land of the free, home of the brave. A nice feeling but that's all it was. Feelings are highly unreliable. Maybe it was true at one time, and probably was but it's certainly not now.

    My feeling: How frustrating and sad it is that we have the power to change all of this but not in the usual way with politics, elections and parties. But we won't.

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  13. #37
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Diabolical Boids View Post
    If we had free and fair elections Americans would still be voting based on their mommy and daddy issues so it doesn't matter anyway.

    Name:  Mark Twain - Voting.jpg
Views: 55
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    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  15. #38
    Senior Member Chuckie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Name:  Mark Twain - Voting.jpg
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    They let people with mommy and daddy issues vote...that is what 'they' want. But seriously folks...I really don't see what the complaints are, not that I don't have my own...voter restrictions, gerrymandering.

    What would you have politically if you could have it?

    In the infamous words of John Travolta...I'm so confused?!
    “I am a social justice...advocate and I say, "Stop the Hate!"

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  17. #39
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    What would you have politically if you could have it?
    I've already made my stance clear earlier, which is that ideally — emphasis on that word — we would have a holographic governing model, in which every member of society gets to vote on every issue, without a centralized government. Every individual would be a member of the government, and the government would represent every individual.

    Of course, I am perfectly aware that this is a utopian vantage and that things don't work that way in the real world, even if only because not everyone is equally well-informed, equally intelligent or equally wise. The very existence of the Wokemons™ and of (in America) the Trumpanzees proves this. And even beyond those two movements, there is ample moral corruption — we all know that the rich are getting richer all the time, while the poor are getting poorer, and there's a reason for that, i.e. not everyone is equally honorable either.

    So, yes, I am perfectly aware of the utopian nature of my political ideology, but just because my proposed style of governing is an unattainable goal doesn't make any of the existing systems a better choice, whether here in Europe or in the USA — or for that matter, in the Middle East, in Asia, or anywhere in Africa.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  19. #40
    Senior Member United States Diabolical Boids's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    I've already made my stance clear earlier, which is that ideally — emphasis on that word — we would have a holographic governing model, in which every member of society gets to vote on every issue, without a centralized government. Every individual would be a member of the government, and the government would represent every individual.

    Of course, I am perfectly aware that this is a utopian vantage and that things don't work that way in the real world, even if only because not everyone is equally well-informed, equally intelligent or equally wise. The very existence of the Wokemons™ and of (in America) the Trumpanzees proves this. And even beyond those two movements, there is ample moral corruption — we all know that the rich are getting richer all the time, while the poor are getting poorer, and there's a reason for that, i.e. not everyone is equally honorable either.

    So, yes, I am perfectly aware of the utopian nature of my political ideology, but just because my proposed style of governing is an unattainable goal doesn't make any of the existing systems a better choice, whether here in Europe or in the USA — or for that matter, in the Middle East, in Asia, or anywhere in Africa.
    That's the model America started out with. But the Americans forgot they were the powers of the government or what was referred to as the Consent of the Governed. We became the governed as we began to see our representatives, the civil servants, as leaders I instead of servants and then that has involved into we see our civil servants as Mommy and Daddy. We got lazy or rather our environment made us so intellectually lazy the majority couldn't participate in a way that was for the good of the nation.


    Your idea would be perfectly workable , initially anyway, if people would remember they are actually the government. But we'd have to reestablish education, knowledge and have an agreed upon goal for the good of the nation not just special interest groups and the fringe.

    What are the mechanics you had in mind for the actual execution of your futuristic voting system?

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  21. #41
    Senior Member Chuckie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    I've already made my stance clear earlier, which is that ideally — emphasis on that word — we would have a holographic governing model, in which every member of society gets to vote on every issue, without a centralized government. Every individual would be a member of the government, and the government would represent every individual.

    Of course, I am perfectly aware that this is a utopian vantage and that things don't work that way in the real world, even if only because not everyone is equally well-informed, equally intelligent or equally wise. The very existence of the Wokemons™ and of (in America) the Trumpanzees proves this. And even beyond those two movements, there is ample moral corruption — we all know that the rich are getting richer all the time, while the poor are getting poorer, and there's a reason for that, i.e. not everyone is equally honorable either.

    So, yes, I am perfectly aware of the utopian nature of my political ideology, but just because my proposed style of governing is an unattainable goal doesn't make any of the existing systems a better choice, whether here in Europe or in the USA — or for that matter, in the Middle East, in Asia, or anywhere in Africa.
    God yes, I agree...that is the straight truth. I believe it could be done, we have the technology for it, whereas in the past the size of the population was a barrier. A book that I'm reading right now sort of broaches that subject. But it took a time-space anomaly to send a small group to the Bronze age.
    “I am a social justice...advocate and I say, "Stop the Hate!"

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  23. #42
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Diabolical Boids View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    I've already made my stance clear earlier, which is that ideally — emphasis on that word — we would have a holographic governing model, in which every member of society gets to vote on every issue, without a centralized government. Every individual would be a member of the government, and the government would represent every individual.

    Of course, I am perfectly aware that this is a utopian vantage and that things don't work that way in the real world, even if only because not everyone is equally well-informed, equally intelligent or equally wise. The very existence of the Wokemons™ and of (in America) the Trumpanzees proves this. And even beyond those two movements, there is ample moral corruption — we all know that the rich are getting richer all the time, while the poor are getting poorer, and there's a reason for that, i.e. not everyone is equally honorable either.

    So, yes, I am perfectly aware of the utopian nature of my political ideology, but just because my proposed style of governing is an unattainable goal doesn't make any of the existing systems a better choice, whether here in Europe or in the USA — or for that matter, in the Middle East, in Asia, or anywhere in Africa.
    That's the model America started out with. But the Americans forgot they were the powers of the government or what was referred to as the Consent of the Governed. We became the governed as we began to see our representatives, the civil servants, as leaders I instead of servants and then that has involved into we see our civil servants as Mommy and Daddy. We got lazy or rather our environment made us so intellectually lazy the majority couldn't participate in a way that was for the good of the nation.

    Your idea would be perfectly workable , initially anyway, if people would remember they are actually the government. But we'd have to reestablish education, knowledge and have an agreed upon goal for the good of the nation not just special interest groups and the fringe.

    What are the mechanics you had in mind for the actual execution of your futuristic voting system?
    Well, as you yourself already addressed here-above, first and foremost, people should be better educated and the development of their intellect should be stimulated from a very young age onward. Then, you would have to also make sure that every member of society is perfectly informed about what decisions need to be made, and which options there are.

    The above is the utopian part, and assumes that there are no conflicts of interest, ethical corruption, financial corruption, criminal intent, and so on. And from there on, people would govern themselves based upon small communities in which they vote and come to a consensus about local matters. For issues of a wider scope, the local group would delegate people to represent the group's vantage to a larger assembly with delegates from other groups. This can be scaled up to various levels if need be, from hamlets, villages and towns over counties/regions, states, and all the way up to the highest level. The delegates would also not be the same ones for every issue. Say for instance that you have to delegate people for a convention this weekend, but then by the next weekend, you send different delegates, depending on who's available.

    There should also be no wages for these delegates, because everyone is the government and the government is everyone. But in the system we have now — and I am now specifically talking of Europe, because I am most familiar with that — we've got a bunch of "representatives", as they like calling themselves, who in reality are actually career politicians. They're in it for life, because they love the job, they love the traveling, they love getting their names and/or faces in the papers and on TV, and they most certainly love the exuberant wages that come with the job, including the bonuses — e.g. half of their salary is exempt from taxes, and if they quit, they will continue receiving that very same salary with its tax exemption for a whole other year, and then there are the royal pensions, the expenses accounts, the tax-deductibles, and so on.

    It's disgusting. And it's becoming a bit of a dynasty thing too, because many of today's politicians in the Belgian governments are the children of former Belgian career politicians. Furthermore, their personal ambitions become clear at every single election, because then they will leave their elected (or appointed) position at one level in order to move to another level. People giving up their office in — say — one of the regional governments in order to become mayor somewhere, or, as has been the case twice now, the Federal Prime Minister abandoning his job mid-term in order to become President of the European Commission. Well, given the salary that comes with said job, I'm not surprised: ~€400'000 a year in personal salary, plus another €2'000'000 per year for "expenses made on the job".

    And at the European level, things are even worse whereas democracy is concerned, because you cannot even vote for the executive branch of the European Union. You can only vote for the European Parliament, but the European Commission is entirely appointed by the European Parliament, along with certain power lobbies attached to the EU, such as the IMF.

    The whole system is rotten to the core, but people don't protest against it, because most people don't even know and/or don't even care, and those who do know are just waiting for their own chance to partake in the game. Like that pension thing I mentioned the other day. No matter what party, all of them agreed to granting themselves a very royal pension approximately 25% above what was agreed upon by law. And that's not all, because many of those politicians have also had a big salary job in the private sector earlier and are already receiving a pension from that too. They make more in one year than I could ever make in a whole lifetime.

    Anyway, the money's not the issue, really. It's about the principle, and how rotten the system really is. And how arrogant and conceited they are about it, talking about it all as if it's all perfectly normal, and mocking you in your face for buying into it.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  25. #43
    Senior Member Chuckie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Well, as you yourself already addressed here-above, first and foremost, people should be better educated and the development of their intellect should be stimulated from a very young age onward. Then, you would have to also make sure that every member of society is perfectly informed about what decisions need to be made, and which options there are.

    The above is the utopian part, and assumes that there are no conflicts of interest, ethical corruption, financial corruption, criminal intent, and so on. And from there on, people would govern themselves based upon small communities in which they vote and come to a consensus about local matters. For issues of a wider scope, the local group would delegate people to represent the group's vantage to a larger assembly with delegates from other groups. This can be scaled up to various levels if need be, from hamlets, villages and towns over counties/regions, states, and all the way up to the highest level. The delegates would also not be the same ones for every issue. Say for instance that you have to delegate people for a convention this weekend, but then by the next weekend, you send different delegates, depending on who's available.

    There should also be no wages for these delegates, because everyone is the government and the government is everyone. But in the system we have now — and I am now specifically talking of Europe, because I am most familiar with that — we've got a bunch of "representatives", as they like calling themselves, who in reality are actually career politicians. They're in it for life, because they love the job, they love the traveling, they love getting their names and/or faces in the papers and on TV, and they most certainly love the exuberant wages that come with the job, including the bonuses — e.g. half of their salary is exempt from taxes, and if they quit, they will continue receiving that very same salary with its tax exemption for a whole other year, and then there are the royal pensions, the expenses accounts, the tax-deductibles, and so on.

    It's disgusting. And it's becoming a bit of a dynasty thing too, because many of today's politicians in the Belgian governments are the children of former Belgian career politicians. Furthermore, their personal ambitions become clear at every single election, because then they will leave their elected (or appointed) position at one level in order to move to another level. People giving up their office in — say — one of the regional governments in order to become mayor somewhere, or, as has been the case twice now, the Federal Prime Minister abandoning his job mid-term in order to become President of the European Commission. Well, given the salary that comes with said job, I'm not surprised: ~€400'000 a year in personal salary, plus another €2'000'000 per year for "expenses made on the job".

    And at the European level, things are even worse whereas democracy is concerned, because you cannot even vote for the executive branch of the European Union. You can only vote for the European Parliament, but the European Commission is entirely appointed by the European Parliament, along with certain power lobbies attached to the EU, such as the IMF.

    The whole system is rotten to the core, but people don't protest against it, because most people don't even know and/or don't even care, and those who do know are just waiting for their own chance to partake in the game. Like that pension thing I mentioned the other day. No matter what party, all of them agreed to granting themselves a very royal pension approximately 25% above what was agreed upon by law. And that's not all, because many of those politicians have also had a big salary job in the private sector earlier and are already receiving a pension from that too. They make more in one year than I could ever make in a whole lifetime.

    Anyway, the money's not the issue, really. It's about the principle, and how rotten the system really is. And how arrogant and conceited they are about it, talking about it all as if it's all perfectly normal, and mocking you in your face for buying into it.
    That is why you appropriately call it, Utopian. People make the Utopia, the Utopia doesn't make them. You know the rest of my story (i.e. opinion)
    “I am a social justice...advocate and I say, "Stop the Hate!"

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    Senior Member Catsquotl's Avatar
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    I once heard a interview with our current president about the democracy we are supposedly living in.
    He stated he did not believe in a true democracy as asking everybody to vote for every single change would be tiresome. He believed that the parliamentary democracy as he calls our system over here was better, because you could bargain over issues to arrive at compromises between parties and it's members..

    Anyhow it served my continued resolve to not ever ever vote and give my voice away to some politician ever again.
    I do realize that that is a luxury not shared in countries where voting is mandatory. In Belgium not voting is punishable by fine and even jail-time or community service if I am not mistaken?
    Aragorn?

    Funny story was that the bassplayer from Butcher came to pick up a friend of his that slept at my house. Told him to hurry up and come already because they had to go vote that day.
    Here's a guy Who I saw preform covered in make up and fake blood with an altar of steel and candles on stage just the night before worrying about being on time to vote.
    Thought that was hilarious.. Then learned that it was mandatory over there.
    Have a great day today

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Diabolical Boids View Post
    My feelings don't have anything to do with it. Feelings are to experience life with, not life itself. There are other expressions of the psyche. Elevated emotions, intuition, the sensation of high energies, manifestation, reasoning ability, spiritual connection, things of the spirit beyond simple chemical reaction. If we want a spiritual revolution in the US like Williamson pushed for we are going to have get rid of the sticky attachment to chemical reactions because where we work with spirit at has no sensation or feeling. I may have mentioned once (or five thousand times) chemical reactions are addictive and destructive.

    There's stuff happening for the good but we can't seem to get out of our own way.

    The system is rotten, why keep flogging it remain upright and breathing? Because its familiar. It's horrible like a bad abusive relationship but since its familiar we want to cling to it even if we are abused daily by it.

    I don't have a sense of impending doom but a time of difficult transition with people making things more difficult for themselves than it needs to be. I knew two decades ago people would start driving themselves crazy. This is more than politics it's what we are dumping in the energy fields that effect our bio fields that I would find alarming. It's turning people into either idiots or animals.

    But not a sense of doom; there is a natural order of correction when things go off course and I have a great deal of faith in it. It's not pretty and almost never comfortable but when you come out the otherside of it, it feels pretty damn good.

    Instead of doom try a sort of implacable necessity. Like going to get a tooth pulled without anesthesia. It sucks but if we can get to the other side of it, and we keep the right attitude its going to be better. But it won't be pretty, there will be fear, there will be blood, and spitting, pain and bad feelings, and people trying to gas or numb us back to insensibility or back to sleep. Right now we are just in the waiting room waiting. Or maybe compare it to labor pains and birth. New life can be a messy painful experience unless you prepare in advance and I doubt people are preparing.

    We've reached peak bad and if bad news can be good that's good.

    I'm looking way beyond elections. What's the point. People will just accept what they are given. If you put someone out there that seems popular it gives the impression of a legit election. The Biden insert was an anomaly. The DNC literally didn't have anyone appropriate to insert so the most unpopular choice was stuck in there and the media made a great show of popularity. Only people who believe the news think Biden is popular.

    We sit on an uneasy teeter totter of beliefs: Elections are rigged, elections are stolen, everyone is appointed.

    The only disclaimer is except when it comes to Biden who people everywhere insist is our true and legitimately elected president regardless of what side of the aisle they are on. They don't want Trump on the stage mirror their egoism and narcissism back at them. Biden's is monstrous too. Trump at least pretended to like people. Biden's contempt for everyone is so obvious its cringe but because he reminds of us our grandpa, what is familiar, it's okay.

    Of course the election wasn't stolen! That's a comforting but useless belief.

    Of course it was stolen.

    If we had free and fair elections Americans would still be voting based on their mommy and daddy issues so it doesn't matter anyway.

    They used to hide election rigging, theft and appointment, so there was at a 'feeling' of having free elections. They don't hide theft anymore. They didn't hide what they did to Bernie Sanders twice in a row, they don't have to anymore. If you watch the news or politicians in the US, it's just people in DC laughing at us.

    So its not feelings, its not even what intuition tells me, its what is observable now.

    And honestly if America was going to come back from the trajectory its been it was probably too late in 2000. And in the 80's. Or before I was born. All these good old days we believe we need to return to are days when we BELIEVED we lived in the land of the free, home of the brave. A nice feeling but that's all it was. Feelings are highly unreliable. Maybe it was true at one time, and probably was but it's certainly not now.

    My feeling: How frustrating and sad it is that we have the power to change all of this but not in the usual way with politics, elections and parties. But we won't.
    You may be confusing feelings with thoughts Dia B, go back n read the post and you can feel where your at, from your words, yes your intention may have been what you have said in this reply and it is what it is. Good to know it is not your feelings intentionalllly , as your ability to splain complicated idea's n patterns etc is highly valued not just by me, here.

    Am xcited for your nation and it's forthcoming ripples, imo n feel , Gods grace with divine dichotomies and the now won won now, the ride is only beginning.

    Feeling the harmony of the future is a beautifullll melt into though yes, ones own path laid 1ST is still becoming fluent.

    Ye we have always had the power, thats the harmony, love to know its lostness long long ago but rather be with now, it be winning.

    Feelings are highly reliable, as is joy truth n love, there is much confusion regards feelings imo, to FEEL, emotions are a very different journey like perceptions incased, tough box.

  30. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Aianawa For This Useful Post:

    Chuckie (19th May 2023), Diabolical Boids (19th May 2023)

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