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Thread: Some People Should Never Do Hallucinogenic Drugs

  1. #31
    Senior Member United States Diabolical Boids's Avatar
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    Having had this thought yesterday on the varied opinions of medical treatments, holistic, treatments, brain chemistry effecting body chemistry. Medical science isn't standardized. Yes we should trust the science but the science all offers different and mostly conflicting opinions because the science is subjected to the bias of the providers. You can look up any disease at any prominent medical facility and you don't find science. You find varied opinions about the science. No one can even agree on a diet for certain conditions. Honestly that would create opposing beliefs, confusion and neurosis in anyone and result in more disease or affliction.

    Secondly how we treat or manage our conditions have become way to subjected to other people's opinions, medical professionals or not. I get the distinct sensation that if someone healed or treated themselves in a way that went against someone else's belief systems, the very act of treating or curing themselves would be so offensive people would be offended you were healthy. Like people need to die or be in chronic pain so someone else's feelings and belief systems aren't made uncomfortable or have their cage rattled. And that seems rather pathological on its own. It would also mean one had a very minimal support for any condition they were experiencing.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally posted by Diabolical Boids View Post
    Having had this thought yesterday on the varied opinions of medical treatments, holistic, treatments, brain chemistry effecting body chemistry. Medical science isn't standardized. Yes we should trust the science but the science all offers different and mostly conflicting opinions because the science is subjected to the bias of the providers. You can look up any disease at any prominent medical facility and you don't find science. You find varied opinions about the science. No one can even agree on a diet for certain conditions. Honestly that would create opposing beliefs, confusion and neurosis in anyone and result in more disease or affliction.

    Secondly how we treat or manage our conditions have become way to subjected to other people's opinions, medical professionals or not. I get the distinct sensation that if someone healed or treated themselves in a way that went against someone else's belief systems, the very act of treating or curing themselves would be so offensive people would be offended you were healthy. Like people need to die or be in chronic pain so someone else's feelings and belief systems aren't made uncomfortable or have their cage rattled. And that seems rather pathological on its own. It would also mean one had a very minimal support for any condition they were experiencing.
    Yeah, I agree, it happens all the time. Doctors of all kinds should always be questioned, not of necessity in a hostile manner, but surely questioned.

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  5. #33
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    Quote Originally posted by Diabolical Boids View Post
    My friend, milligram wise, takes an a staggering amount of THC. Dedicated stoners are in awe of how much THC she ingests daily and still functions better than a lot of non drug using people. She even works for a doctor. Not necessarily smoking, but edibles. So does her husband. Their recent medical history is one long car or heavy equipment wreck. Broken bones, crushed feet, crushed knees, joint replacements so a lot of chronic pain.It's weird how many accidents happened to accommodate their love of pot smoking. But in a lot of other people she would be sedentary and on disability. She goes to work everyday, remains feisty and pretty much engaged in life socially. She's been a life long pot smoker but I still can't get over how her reality sort of arranged itself to fit her chosen lifestyle. I don't think that's an accident.

    My daughter smokes for her anxiety. She doesn't want to take anti-anxiety drugs and I respect that. But she also has some hormonally based health issues which also contribute to her anxiety and physical health. Which creates more anxiety. She in no way abusing pot and she does try to manage her anxiety holistically, but I had to ask her "Are you sure huffing more estrogen on a daily and regular basis really helpful in terms of your endocrine issues?" That stopped her dead in her tracks. I don't think anyone on the street or in the dispensary ever told her that marijuana and THC is basically an estrogen feast.

    A friend at work spends literally 3/4s of his paycheck at dispensaries on pot or THC a week. He doesn't have any health problems but he does have emotional problems. How do you support a family doing that? How much psychoactive property do you need really. Same thing. All estrogen, inability to manage emotions, more estrogen, more inability to manage emotions, because estrogen does that and pot is just loaded with estrogens.

    The feminization of men? How much is conspiracy and how much is it of men absorbing estrogen into receptors that were never meant to be taken over by estrogen?

    My nephew is a hot shot horticulturist pot grower. He doesn't smoke because he knows the plant i. I get the sense it even scares him a little. It's really important to respect it and he says in today's culture and climate people aren't respecting the plant --they are consuming it like Doritoes--and if you don't respect the plant there are going to be consequences, the estrogen dominance in men and women both being just one of them.

    In this way I don't think of it as a relatively benign all-natural mother earthy gentle plant peddled by harmless free love hippie types. It seems like a force of nature, like a lion that its treated like a lamb until it bites and makes something like SSRI's and Prozac look like Skittles in comparison. And caveat emptor to those who don't take that into consideration.
    I hate the feel of pot. I feel completely insane, paranoid. Curl up into a little ball and cry. Then I eat a lot. I know some people really like it and it calms them down. Amazing how people vary in their response.

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  7. #34
    Senior Member United States Diabolical Boids's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Octopus Garden View Post
    I hate the feel of pot. I feel completely insane, paranoid. Curl up into a little ball and cry. Then I eat a lot. I know some people really like it and it calms them down. Amazing how people vary in their response.
    I know. Smoke, feel numb, paranoia, hunger, fright, pounding heart, then go to sleep. No fun. The head effective was like taking some particularly nasty cold medicine where I felt like I was in tunnel disconnected from inner and outer reality. That others can benefit or enjoy, and I have no doubt they do, must be due to different brain types or pot types. Oh then the people who can drink and smoke pot at the same time, I don't even know how they do it. When I was a young adult there was like one kind of pot as far as I knew. The one that slowed you down, gave you the munchies, and hopefully made you laugh. Now there's an entire library of them. The one that energizes, the one that relaxes, the head buzz, the body buzz. There may even be a pot that suits us out there somewhere but I'm not terribly interested in trying.

    I've spent an entire life time around pot smokers who are obnoxiously adamant that I smoke with them, I mean just pushy with it, unable to understand that what they enjoy so much is pretty much a turn off for others.

    I will do CBD oil though if its good quality from a dispensary.

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  9. #35
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    I have CBD oil too because it's legal and it doesn't have THC. It actually makes you feel very peaceful and I would recommend it.
    "The more I see, the less I know for sure." ~ John Lennon

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  11. #36
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    I recently got Stan Grof's book Realms of the Human Unconscious: Observations from LSD Research.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uCySQOMB-4


    Stanislav Grof, M.D., PhD., is a psychiatrist with over sixty years of experience in research of non-ordinary states of consciousness and one of the founders and chief theoreticians of transpersonal psychology. He was born in Prague, Czechoslovakia, where he also received his scientific training: an M.D. degree from the Charles University School of Medicine and a Ph.D. degree (Doctor of Philosophy in Medicine) from the Czechoslovakian Academy of Sciences. He was also granted honorary Ph.D. degrees from the University of Vermont in Burlington, VT, Institute of Transpersonal Psychology in Palo Alto, CA, and the World Buddhist University in Bangkok, Thailand. In 2018 he received an honorary Ph.D. degree for Psychedelic Therapy and Healing Arts from the Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS) in San Francisco, California.

    Stanislav Grof is most famous for his LSD research and the observations that came from birth trauma during this rarely used, yet successful, form of psychotherapy. He is also the innovator of holotropic breathwork which allows one to enter non-ordinary states of consciousness for self exploration and empowerment. He has written many books, helped many people cope with severe traumas that stem beyond their current level of consciousness, and is currently 91 years old and lives in Germany.
    "The more I see, the less I know for sure." ~ John Lennon

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    Grof is really good, so sure, so open. This is good stuff. He mentions his favoritism towards Hinduism or Buddhism. I understand the fascination with such philosophies but I think Christianity is overlooked because as you pointed out it is highly misunderstood probably because of the way it is practiced in the West. As Grof points out, the 'narrowness' of the Western science/psychology paradigms is very limiting.

    He mentions the despoiling of the Earth and its environs, but doesn't mention the despoiling of the mind...

    Here is my guy:
    Last edited by Emil El Zapato, 28th May 2023 at 13:26.

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    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    Grof is really good, so sure, so open. This is good stuff. He mentions his favoritism towards Hinduism or Buddhism. I understand the fascination with such philosophies but I think Christianity is overlooked because as you pointed out it is highly misunderstood probably because of the way it is practiced in the West. As Grof points out, the 'narrowness' of the Western science/psychology paradigms is very limiting.

    He mentions the despoiling of the Earth and its environs, but doesn't mention the despoiling of the mind...

    Here is my guy:
    Ken Wilber says I'm premature...

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    I have never experienced the urge to be spiritually enlightened and I have often wondered why? Right or wrong it is what Wilber excels at, creating thinking frameworks for understanding. This is the first time I have ever listened to him (it was kind of hard) always read but every time he teaches me something. He outlines two spiritually-oriented paradigms, one spiritual intelligence, and the other, spiritual experience. He says further that there are dangers and bad consequences at a framework level where one isn't in balance with the other. That is where I have always been. I never wanted to have the 'ultimate' spiritual experience because I have never felt that my spiritual intelligence was equal to the task. He cites an example where an individual has the 'unity consciousness' experience but has the 'archaic' level of spiritual intelligence...bad...very bad. He said the world's mental institutions are filled with examples of that experience.

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    Hey Wind, if you want to take a trip down the rabbit hole, this is the one that will do it. I've had a number of these experiences but they were spontaneous and not to the depth discussed in the video. It gives a heuristic approach to tripping the light fantastic and it has nothing to do with a drug. Don't let the venue fool you, this isn't a debunking of a 'myth' but something for the potential practitioner.

    It was hard to determine if the edges of this round to a coherent whole but I think it would be worth taking a look if one is serious about such things:


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