Some People Should Never Do Hallucinogenic Drugs

[Emil El Zapato]

I agree in the sense that psychedelics shouldn't be recommended for the faint of heart or people who have underlying mental issues.

Same with pot, it's not going to help people who are prone to paranoia and psychosis. Granted, I've not done pot so I don't even know how it feels. It's however known from studies that psychedelics can't get you addicted to them. At best you might just get addicted to the experience and you won't do anything with the healing or information that you are presented with. Psychedelics do that, they show you things about you and the world, they literally open your mind and allow you to see things from a different vantage point which is a massively helpful tool for some people, including for people who suffer from depression. I'd say that especially for politicians and other clowns it would be necessary for to take psychedelics so that they could learn to develop some damnempathy and common sense.

My mind is not normal either and I feel and see a lot, that is the price for sensitivity. I hardly drink any alcohol, I can't even drink caffeine because any stimulants are too much for me. It makes me anxious and my body gets all weird. I guess that's my mega Virgo side (Ascendant too in it) so my stomach is very sensitive and anything I put there is going to affect me greatly. So whatever that alters my mind or consciousness, I have to usually take it less than others. I don't do "drugs", although I am open to plants. This reality is a trip.

Paracelsus, possibly the greatest physician to ever live said this;

"All things are poisons, for there is nothing without poisonous qualities. It is only the dose which makes a thing poison."

Paraclesus had it going on...You should read about Lucanus the Greek physician, later to be known as the Apostle St. Luke.

[Diabolical Boids]

I think that's the wrong impression of antidepressants. They dull the pain and thus make one more able to deal with it head on. It is the stuff rattling around in our brains unbeknownst to us that is damaging. Sigmund Freud believed that one can't squash it because it will always manifest in another way. I learned that lesson after about 25 years of suffering.

I tell you a surprising side affect of SSRI's. When I first started taking them I went to a therapist and one of his first questions was why did the shrink put me on them. I couldn't remember...the discomfort, that is, I was fully in touch with why it had been there and still am, oftentimes it comes out in my dreams. Dreams are an avenue for awareness of what is going on underneath the covers.

I haven't taken anti depressants but that strikes a note with me in terms of anti-anxiety meds. I just needed something to allow me some space between the continuous shit, the high pitched singing in my body and nerves so I could make some rationalize or intuitive decision and get some sleep. Sleep deprivation is awful. It was beyond discomfort it was dysfunctional, physically and mentally. I wasn't crazy or a basket case, I felt like I was plugged into a high voltage machine, jitter bugging everywhere but getting no where. And if I wasn't actually anxious, I was anxious about the next bout of anxiety I would have.

So the xanax. Not so I could be a noodle, but to break that chain so I could sleep, begin to intuit again, think, reconnect and get some control by the usual avenues that didn't involve medicine.

So three days. Not consecutive days, but three days I took one Xanax a day so I could find some space to be free from body. The first day was an Atavan, and I did nothing but sleep like a rock for 10 hours and I was a new person after months of sleep deprivation. During those days I could willfully take control and start to process, step myself down to a place of calm, reflect, whatever I had to do. Then I didn't take it, I got caught up on more sleep, I was getting it under control, examining my thoughts, behaviors, meditating. Then when I ran up into a situation that was a potential triggering point I would take another one if I had to. It's not really about what I was taking anyway, it was more about taking control and breaking old patterns and choices that caused the damned anxiety in the first place and making new ones. And for the love of God shut up that inner critic terrorist so I'm not second guessing everything.

Depression may be like anxiety which is not in your head, its not in your brain, it's in your body. Consciousness is throughout the entire body. There's a heart brain connection. The gut is considered the second brain. They are not distinct and separate the mind and body. With the consciousness through the body, the mind is conditioning the body.

If someone is conditioning it in positive ways, that's great. But if it's negative though patterns the mind is conditioning the body with then the body gets so conditioned by the mind that suddenly it becomes the mind and starts running the mind so the mind can no longer override it and has to find a way to find mind over matter. It's at this point things get messy physically and mentally, so you have to find a way to establish mental dominance over the body. Psychoactive medication is a way, for some, to shut the body up so the mind can get some equilibrium and begin taking control again and eventually without the medication.

I know its an entirely different way of looking at things, that the body is taking charge and not the mind but it seems more effective than the traditional thought on the matter. It's based on Dr Joe Dispenza's work and he has described some fascinating stuff occurring in his workshops when people seize control of the body with their minds. He's of the same mindset, take what you need to take without judgements until you can have enough space to establish a point of the mind reconditioning the body.

[Diabolical Boids]

Using the same Dispenza mode of healing, go to the polar opposite.

The people, like I did, refused to go to antipsychotics, because of whatever belief is in their head and just kept experiencing worsening problems. There's two sorts. The sorts of who have all sorts of problems are not optimally healthy, not doing inner work to good effect even if they think they are. Their body's are busy creating psychosomatic issues based on unresolved issues they can't get into because they are so ungrounded they can't. So they may as well be taking a bad disease producing drug because their imbalanced brain chemistry is producing basically bad chemicals that effect mind and body in bad ways.

Then the other people. They don't medicate, they are pure, they are solving their chronic emotional, mental and physical issues by meditation and other self correction methods. So they refuse the validity of antipsychotic chemicals deeming it unnecessary not just for themselves but for others. But their brains have also turned into little pharmacies making the correct chemicals and doses for self healing. The only difference is they aren't getting a prescription, they are writing it themselves. That's a good place to be and that's the place we all need to be but stay out of the self judgement part.

Ironic, eh?

[Emil El Zapato]

True stuff...heavy contemplation. I had dental surgery sometime back and since my blood pressure temporarily hit 200 from the usual 120 at an earlier time (I'm not afraid of dentists, beyond their white coats) now they always insist on drugging me up even when I say I don't want it. Last time was Atavan described as a 'mild sedative'. It knocked me cold so afterwards I talked to the pharmacist that filled the pre-surgery prescription about it and he suggested that perhaps I was sleep deprived. If that is mild sedation, I"m staying away from the heavy stuff (at least in the dentist chair).

They hate me because I never follow the rules. The first time they drugged me I drove to the appt and they have been freaked out ever since. I was lucky that I made it, the last thing I remember is the nurse calling my name and starting the walk to the door, that was it. They never told me not to drive.

Another funny one is that they tried nitrous oxide the time my blood pressure just about popped the thermometer, I told them it wouldn't work, I'd never had it before but I knew it wasn't going to do a damn thing, it didn't. My bp went up. They finally said I had to see a physician to get my blood pressure under control or they would have to stop treating me. So off I went to the M.D. and he verified what I already knew...white coat effect. So he signed documentation stating that I didn't have high blood pressure rather the problem was that I was mentally cracked.

[Wind]

Depression is still something I struggle with and I wonder if it's linked to health issues or just how I perceive this sad world.

I took antidepressants way over a decade ago and they probably worked, but I'm not sure if they were SSRI's. I never wanted to take them again, I just felt like I didn't need any and when I read about the problems with SSRI, I became even more hesitant to ever put something like that into my body. That was even during my awful anxiety and yes anxiety can be hell, PTSD is just even a more severe form of that. Then you truly know that hell exists... Here. Even then no medication for me and I'm not a glutton for punishment either. Including anti anxiety medication. I just like to take reality often as raw as possible. Although when I take a drink if I do then it does something to my buzzy brain, it slows down which feels wonderful. That's because alcohol is a downer, it brings your consciousness down.

Maybe some strains of weed would make me relaxed, but even then I would be hesitant about getting into it as it could become a crutch.

I don't like mushrooms and the ones I've tasted (not magic) tasted bad to me. Maybe there are good ones, magic too?

LSD is made from psilocybin and what I find interesting about that particular is that it makes people feel divine love.

Ayahuasca which contains DMT, the spirit molecule is on a whole another level as a healing tool.


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw9iFZMYpMU


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISM9OeWs7yw

[Octopus Garden]

I'm curious OG, have you ever been diagnosed as schizophrenic? Because if schizophrenia hits it usually happens early in life, it seems I'm remembering early twenties.

No, not diagnosed and never medicated for it, so I don't think I am. But I've been told I am over-the-top psychic by friends. Whatever my 'abilities' are, in that regard, I shy away from thinking of myself in those terms because it seems kind of egocentric and New Agey.

I have had some crazy pre-cog experiences, though, that involved something dangerous that was going to happen to my pets. Because of the dreams I'd had I was able to prevent them from happening the next day. I have also been able to get inside the mind of a cat and direct its actions to some degree. That was many years ago. I have no idea how I did it!

[Octopus Garden]

I've met so many neuro diversity people like myself that really have no tolerance or liking for marijuana and can't understand the attraction. I rather expected it would be other way around. I don't do any drugs myself, and drink limited amounts of alcohol. I can at least understand the attraction to alcohol and maybe other recreational drugs but not marijuana. Smoke, get paranoid, get anxious, get hungry, go to sleep? Where's the fun? At least a glass of champagne may give you a giggle and an appetite for dinner. I hope people who need marijuana for pain get a better effect from it.

Not a big fan of anti psychotic drugs myself except for the instances of anxiety. Anxiety can be easily controlled without drugs but when events cause it to accelerate, or things happen bang bang bang with no opportunity to process or recover in between Anxiety can be amazingly disabling in even very strong-willed people. It's not in the mind its in the body, and feels like someone is sawing an out tune fiddle on your nervous system. I never thought I would take xanax and I never thought of myself as anxious person but then again I never thought I'd have nine bags of trauma dumped on me at once with no time to cope or process in between before the next train hit me.

Can't speak for depression but its as crippling as high anxiety people will need a step down to the point they can process and learn to control it on their own by whatever means. I think a lot of the process and therapy part of neuro science has been eliminated though in favor of simply dispensing.

For many anxiety disorders, mild anti-depressants are like taking insulin for diabetes. Something brain-wise is off. Prozac doesn't make me euphoric at all, just not as easily rattled. I am still anxious. it just takes the extreme edges off. I do feel more confident as easing anxiety helps with social anxiety. I agree that there is way too much focus on dispensing and not enough at getting at the root problem and trying to solve it, which is what Aragorn mentioned. You are both right about that!

I have Ehlers Danlos syndrome, as well as ME/CFS. People with this syndrome are predisposed to both autism, anxiety, and post viral syndromes, like CFS and Long Covid. And that has to do with the basic architecture of the brain. The same enzyme that is missing in connective tissue in the body, may also be missing in the brain. Anyway, too much information!! Sorry

[Catsquotl]

Personally having been on the strong anti medicinal drugs front and a recreational drug user..

Toe each his own at different times. I have seen people die from exhaustion through the lack of medicinal treatment of psychosis.
I have seen people die from years of slightly overdosed anti-anxiety drugs. (then again without that his life would have been way more complicated and hellish than it was in the end.

So I'm going to say that there's a time and place for everything.
A part of me believes that without hallucinogens we may never have evolved.

As far as anti-depressants go.
Any one who has cared for someone with or suffered clinical depression themselves, would hail anti depressants at some point for a while.
I may even go as far as saying if you didn't you probably weren't clinically depressed.

[Diabolical Boids]

My friend, milligram wise, takes an a staggering amount of THC. Dedicated stoners are in awe of how much THC she ingests daily and still functions better than a lot of non drug using people. She even works for a doctor. Not necessarily smoking, but edibles. So does her husband. Their recent medical history is one long car or heavy equipment wreck. Broken bones, crushed feet, crushed knees, joint replacements so a lot of chronic pain.It's weird how many accidents happened to accommodate their love of pot smoking. But in a lot of other people she would be sedentary and on disability. She goes to work everyday, remains feisty and pretty much engaged in life socially. She's been a life long pot smoker but I still can't get over how her reality sort of arranged itself to fit her chosen lifestyle. I don't think that's an accident.

My daughter smokes for her anxiety. She doesn't want to take anti-anxiety drugs and I respect that. But she also has some hormonally based health issues which also contribute to her anxiety and physical health. Which creates more anxiety. She in no way abusing pot and she does try to manage her anxiety holistically, but I had to ask her "Are you sure huffing more estrogen on a daily and regular basis really helpful in terms of your endocrine issues?" That stopped her dead in her tracks. I don't think anyone on the street or in the dispensary ever told her that marijuana and THC is basically an estrogen feast.

A friend at work spends literally 3/4s of his paycheck at dispensaries on pot or THC a week. He doesn't have any health problems but he does have emotional problems. How do you support a family doing that? How much psychoactive property do you need really. Same thing. All estrogen, inability to manage emotions, more estrogen, more inability to manage emotions, because estrogen does that and pot is just loaded with estrogens.

The feminization of men? How much is conspiracy and how much is it of men absorbing estrogen into receptors that were never meant to be taken over by estrogen?

My nephew is a hot shot horticulturist pot grower. He doesn't smoke because he knows the plant i. I get the sense it even scares him a little. It's really important to respect it and he says in today's culture and climate people aren't respecting the plant --they are consuming it like Doritoes--and if you don't respect the plant there are going to be consequences, the estrogen dominance in men and women both being just one of them.

In this way I don't think of it as a relatively benign all-natural mother earthy gentle plant peddled by harmless free love hippie types. It seems like a force of nature, like a lion that its treated like a lamb until it bites and makes something like SSRI's and Prozac look like Skittles in comparison. And caveat emptor to those who don't take that into consideration.

[Emil El Zapato]

Personally having been on the strong anti medicinal drugs front and a recreational drug user..

Toe each his own at different times. I have seen people die from exhaustion through the lack of medicinal treatment of psychosis.
I have seen people die from years of slightly overdosed anti-anxiety drugs. (then again without that his life would have been way more complicated and hellish than it was in the end.

So I'm going to say that there's a time and place for everything.
A part of me believes that without hallucinogens we may never have evolved.

As far as anti-depressants go.
Any one who has cared for someone with or suffered clinical depression themselves, would hail anti depressants at some point for a while.
I may even go as far as saying if you didn't you probably weren't clinically depressed.

yeah, I agree with that completely. I'm hoping that proper use, nutrition, etc that they do not have a negative impact on life. I consider the fact that there is some evidence that SSRI's have a positive impact on cognitive decline as a good thing. It is the inflammation caused by anxiety that is deleterious.

My friend, milligram wise, takes an a staggering amount of THC. Dedicated stoners are in awe of how much THC she ingests daily and still functions better than a lot of non drug using people. She even works for a doctor. Not necessarily smoking, but edibles. So does her husband. Their recent medical history is one long car or heavy equipment wreck. Broken bones, crushed feet, crushed knees, joint replacements so a lot of chronic pain.It's weird how many accidents happened to accommodate their love of pot smoking. But in a lot of other people she would be sedentary and on disability. She goes to work everyday, remains feisty and pretty much engaged in life socially. She's been a life long pot smoker but I still can't get over how her reality sort of arranged itself to fit her chosen lifestyle. I don't think that's an accident.

My daughter smokes for her anxiety. She doesn't want to take anti-anxiety drugs and I respect that. But she also has some hormonally based health issues which also contribute to her anxiety and physical health. Which creates more anxiety. She in no way abusing pot and she does try to manage her anxiety holistically, but I had to ask her "Are you sure huffing more estrogen on a daily and regular basis really helpful in terms of your endocrine issues?" That stopped her dead in her tracks. I don't think anyone on the street or in the dispensary ever told her that marijuana and THC is basically an estrogen feast.

A friend at work spends literally 3/4s of his paycheck at dispensaries on pot or THC a week. He doesn't have any health problems but he does have emotional problems. How do you support a family doing that? How much psychoactive property do you need really. Same thing. All estrogen, inability to manage emotions, more estrogen, more inability to manage emotions, because estrogen does that and pot is just loaded with estrogens.

The feminization of men? How much is conspiracy and how much is it of men absorbing estrogen into receptors that were never meant to be taken over by estrogen?

My nephew is a hot shot horticulturist pot grower. He doesn't smoke because he knows the plant i. I get the sense it even scares him a little. It's really important to respect it and he says in today's culture and climate people aren't respecting the plant --they are consuming it like Doritoes--and if you don't respect the plant there are going to be consequences, the estrogen dominance in men and women both being just one of them.

In this way I don't think of it as a relatively benign all-natural mother earthy gentle plant peddled by harmless free love hippie types. It seems like a force of nature, like a lion that its treated like a lamb until it bites and makes something like SSRI's and Prozac look like Skittles in comparison. And caveat emptor to those who don't take that into consideration.

I've always been of the opinion that with THC edibles are the way to go. It is more of a physical high than mental and IS very relaxing.

[Emil El Zapato]

"but I still can't get over how her reality sort of arranged itself to fit her chosen lifestyle. I don't think that's an accident."

Amen to that, it happens. My ex was a walking invalid when we were married but perfectly healthy sorta. I believe she inherited a belief from her mother (a behavior model) for incapacity. I think this is where epigenetics steps in and sets the stage as we travel through life.

I read once that a woman's health is more influenced by her mother's words and beliefs on physical health than genetics

In any case, my ex was looking for a way to be dependent, didn't matter the source. She is now on permanent disability and is living her dream come true. I saw the entire scenario develop and so did my daughter for that matter. We are in full agreement as to the course of development.

[Diabolical Boids]

"but I still can't get over how her reality sort of arranged itself to fit her chosen lifestyle. I don't think that's an accident."

Amen to that, it happens. My ex was a walking invalid when we were married but perfectly healthy sorta. I believe she inherited a belief from her mother (a behavior model) for incapacity. I think this is where epigenetics steps in and sets the stage as we travel through life.

I read once that a woman's health is more influenced by her mother's words and beliefs on physical health than genetics

In any case, my ex was looking for a way to be dependent, didn't matter the source. She is now on permanent disability and is living her dream come true. I saw the entire scenario develop and so did my daughter for that matter. We are in full agreement as to the course of development.

"but I still can't get over how her reality sort of arranged itself to fit her chosen lifestyle. I don't think that's an accident."

Amen to that, it happens. My ex was a walking invalid when we were married but perfectly healthy sorta. I believe she inherited a belief from her mother (a behavior model) for incapacity. I think this is where epigenetics steps in and sets the stage as we travel through life.

I read once that a woman's health is more influenced by her mother's words and beliefs on physical health than genetics

In any case, my ex was looking for a way to be dependent, didn't matter the source. She is now on permanent disability and is living her dream come true. I saw the entire scenario develop and so did my daughter for that matter. We are in full agreement as to the course of development.

I've heard accounts of the 'invalid' by choice people dying of no known cause or apparent reason, just dropping dead, when presented with a cure for whatever ails them. They can't envision a life where they aren't a victim. I'm not even sure they try. And they get something out of it like attention, pit, sympathy, and typically people in wheelchairs don't have to put up with other people's crap like the rest of us do. They get a pass for being handicapped. But a cure represents a transition from dependence to independence they aren't prepared for and an unknown future. Likely your ex never challenged the beliefs instilled in her. When the brain requires an adjustment of chemistry it's usually because some trauma or unself serving belief has caused the chemical imbalance or self adjusted. Get rid of the belief and the effects of those beliefs and the body will begin to heal and readjust. Chemical intervention may be necessary to bridge the gap. But these beliefs and the attached emotions are addictive because they are familiar. Everyone likes familiar. Predictable so it's hard to move out of them into the unknown. And no amount of reason, or encouragement will shift them unless they really want to go there. It's challenging work even for those willing to go there.

[Emil El Zapato]

No, not diagnosed and never medicated for it, so I don't think I am. But I've been told I am over-the-top psychic by friends. Whatever my 'abilities' are, in that regard, I shy away from thinking of myself in those terms because it seems kind of egocentric and New Agey.

I have had some crazy pre-cog experiences, though, that involved something dangerous that was going to happen to my pets. Because of the dreams I'd had I was able to prevent them from happening the next day. I have also been able to get inside the mind of a cat and direct its actions to some degree. That was many years ago. I have no idea how I did it!

In regard to your earlier post about phobias. There is a definite connection between those and parental influence, usually the father.

[Diabolical Boids]

In regard to your earlier post about phobias. There is a definite connection between those and parental influence, usually the father.

Can you clarify? The psy ability comes from the father or the phobias? Both? Curious. Or did I get lost in translation between the quote and your response?

Chuckie: It is the inflammation caused by anxiety that is deleterious.

I missed that earlier. That: Inflammation. You, me, everybody, everything comes down to inflammation it seems. Mental, emotional, physical.

[Emil El Zapato]

Can you clarify? The psy ability comes from the father or the phobias? Both? Curious. Or did I get lost in translation between the quote and your response?



I missed that earlier. That: Inflammation. You, me, everybody, everything comes down to inflammation it seems. Mental, emotional, physical.

No sorry, kind of confused the issue. OG mentioned social phobia (I was given that diagnosis once). Either I read about it or was told that it was related to the relationship to the father which made sense to me. It relates to one's 'sense of security' in the world.

The half-sister that I met from DNA testing says that we likely inherited the psy tendency from our biological mother as it seems to run in the family.

As for inflammation, yeah, inflammation in the body is a generic killer, it attacks all organs including the mind.