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Thread: Covid Can Permanently Damage Immune System- Airborne Aids?

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    Covid Can Permanently Damage Immune System- Airborne Aids?

    An area of interest, about covid, long covid and T cell destruction. Detractors of Anthony Leonardi, dismiss his theory based on 'studies' of younger people who remain healthy after having had covid, not the umpteen millions, of all ages, who have contracted long covid.


    The uproar reached a fever peak this year when Leonardi speculated that repeated COVID infections could exhaust T cells in people 50 years or older leading to a blunted immune response. (Chronic infections such as HIV or Epstein-Barr virus typically exhaust T cells.)


    https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2022/11/...-And-Immunity/

    The upshot is, as the virus becomes wilier, the best precaution is masking with a high quality mask. This is difficult if you are working physically in a hot environment many hours a day. People, like myself, who have no problems masking are usually not forced to be in that kind of situation.

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    Senior Member United States Diabolical Boids's Avatar
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    Industrial Safety and Masks.

    The imagined difficulties of wearing a mask in a industrial setting is just that. Imaginary. Unless anyone has worked 8 to 10 hours in a hot humid environment with a long-sleeved uniform on, heavy boots, safety gloves and safety glasses as a bare minimum of PPE you wouldn’t know the whys or hows of effective PPE and how masks interfere with it. It’s not difficult. You get used to wearing PPE. You know that is keeping you from chem burns, sparks, broken feet, cuts, and your eyes are protected. Masks didn’t prevent anything, they exacerbated hazards of everything.

    People did their best, they tried to work around the obvious perils. They tried to explain industrial safety and why it was more dangerous to wear the mask than not wear it.

    They tried to make known the escalating risks and injuries caused by masks known to the public. They tried to appeal to the better nature of people who claimed they were well intentioned. Their efforts to protect themselves and their coworkers were met with condemnation: Selfish, hater, transphobe, Nazi, idiot, white supremacist. Stupid dirty redneck conservative they screamed at the Trumpsters who held degrees in engineering or were skilled tradesmen who could add long offset equations in their head.



    The masks in no way protected anyone from injuries and accidents from people driving heavy equipment with impaired vision. They exacerbated potential risks into Osha recordable accidents. This means this is all recorded in public record if one could avoid censorship by management. They had to record it but in all other respects Osha went along with the violations of their own guidelines. Osha whistleblowers came screaming out of the metal works and were ignored.

    Arbitrarily throwing cheap dollar store masks into the equation does not make it difficult to maintain safety. It makes it impossible to maintain previously established and known safety and health standards that are reverse engineered and proven to reduce work place accidents and the spread of disease. Masks were not previously allowed into hot humid nonsterile production environments for reasons of common and demonstrable sense.

    A lot of people who insist those in an industrial setting must wear a mask have never been in that environment. They have never worked near a series of Industrial Furnaces that are a block long. They have no idea how fast the masks were compromised by sweat and breathe condensation. Or how impossible it is to change a mask every five minutes. They’ve never had to use or know heavy industrial trucks. Or deal with biohazards in a real time setting, or chem hazards, fire safety, hot work safety, material handling safety., keeping all of this to mind all at once all at the same time. So they are dictating from a relatively safe and healthy office ivory tower atmosphere into a environment that was already hazardous to begin with but had proven safety measures that were impaired by mask wearing.

    Two areas effected by masks in two distinct and critical elements in an industrial setting.


    Safety is the prevention of physical injury and fatalities.

    The masks interfered with the efficacy of preexisting and necessary PPE. Established safety standards are based in science, experience, preexisting accidents and how to avoid them. Not fear or panic, self righteousness. Development of PPE that allows you to do your job unimpeded but still protects you.

    Safety as oversighted by the federal government has nothing to do with flus, colds, or Covid. That falls under another category. Much of what happened could have been avoided if proper ventilation techniques had been kept in place. They weren’t. People were afraid they would spread Covid. There was no basis for this fear. It was just fear talking. Imagination. Ventilation meant that any airborne pathogens could be sucked from the environment. Instead they turned off the ventilation, so pathogens were allowed to linger to stick to someone’s wet mask which turns into a giant mucous membrane ready to trap any virus that likes a warm damp environment. Then you got to wear viral and bacterial vectors on your face.

    Masks impeded peripheral vision. They were not fitted but one size fits all in thousands of people who had obviously different shaped heads and faces. They scrunched up and winged out at the sides, they blocked lower and side to side peripheral vision. They interfered with safety glasses. They caused condensation to build up on glasses so you always had impaired vision. Sometimes you worked blind, trying to peer through the waterfall of condensation dripping down your glasses, for hours at a time.

    This impacts people who are doing fast jobs like on an assembly line, hybrid lines where you are on a assembly line but also operating at high speeds, dangerous machinery. Presses with thousands of pounds of force, along with conveyers. You need your peripheral vision, your job and safety depend on it. Your reflexes depend on it.

    Unless you have driven a fixture with an impact wrench, slammed a lid on, scooped up six bolts in one hand, dropped them into the case, lubed and installed asensor in 20 seconds and then removed the fixture, you cannot appreciate how much peri vision is depended on. You don’t have time to move your head. You use side and bottom vision. You can’t see to confirm if critical level A safety components are set properly. So now you are impacting consumer safety. Consumers cannot plop a mask on their face and protect themselves from failed parts and faulty products.

    Someone who cannot see the screen of their lathe, ID/OD or grinder which has numbers represented in microns flashing and changing continuously cannot maintain proper specs. Parts were processed out of spec. They got passed causing more future part failures, for the consumer. You can’t see ordinary objects but we are supposed to keep an eye on things at the micrometer level?

    Woke world.

    It impacts everything from employee to consumer. You cannot turn out safe or quality products if your vision is impeded.

    They cherry picked the known hazards.

    They reasoned that if you are driving a forklift a piece of equipment weighs well over two tons, you are lifting and setting materials by feel alone. You didn't need to see! They got that much right its all intuitive. But the desk sitters in their temp controlled environments chose to ignore the fact that driving a forklift under normal conditions means your forward vision is blocked by the mast to begin with. You depend on peripheral vision and you have to know what is going on in a 360 degree way of the machine all the way around the machine. You have to have your lower peripheral vision to see proximity sensors because your forward vision is peeled ahead and side to side.

    Pedestrians who also have their vision impeded increased the hazards which would result in serious injuries and even deaths. All in the name of the emotional safety of some random person sitting safely in their home a thousand miles away.

    Tugs don’t have brakes on them. You need clear and unimpeded vision to keep pedestrians safe and avoid collision with other industrial trucks. Those sorts of injuries sky rocketed. People were scalped and blinded. They injured limbs, fingers, feet. They suffered injuries that meant they would never return to work again. Slip and fall injuries because you cannot see the floor beneath your feet. If you are looking down you are not looking up checking for overhead hazards, and heavy trucks. Sound safe? Or healthy?
    Unless you have moved carts with 900 pounds of parts from one area to the other, or lifted parts wearing 10 to 2o pounds onto a conveyor or machine in unventilated or walked 20 miles a day, you cannot appreciate how fast a mask gets wet.


    You’ve never had to walk a half a mile with a mask saturated with cleaning fluid to find another mask to wear you cannot appreciate any of this. It wasn’t difficult, it was hazardous. Dangerous. Life threatening.

    The people sitting at desks turned otherwise safe shops into unsafe and dangerous sweat shops.

    I personally observed a heavy piece of equipment come lose from a conveyer. Blocking peripheral vision meant the operator didn’t see the brake was not fully engaged. Two men stepped over to prevent the equipment from falling and crushing someone. One’s mask slipped as they were wrestling with the equipment. Both of them got written up. That effects their profit sharing. I saw the blood of a coworker splashed everywhere because her vision was impeded. She got sucked into a conveyor and her scalp torn from her head, while a 250 pound peice of equipment slammed into her face.

    That was the priority. The mask. Not safety. Not health. The tip of someone's nose showing was basically construed as attempted murder.

    Covid didn't just sicken and kill people. It turned them into monsters. They tried to turn everyone else into monsters.

    The next post is about Health in an Industrial Environment. Wet masks and how they spread disease.

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    Senior Member United States Diabolical Boids's Avatar
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    In the above post and this one there is no mention of personal freedoms. That didn't even factor into the equation. Strictly about safety and health. If anyone works in a coporatized anyplace you give up personal freedoms to a certain extent when you hire on. You can't wear what you want, you can't say what you want, you have to wear cumbersome PPE in industrial environments, you have to have tests and physicals you don't want, you have to study for math tests and other STEM related educations that you don't want, you have to pass electrical, fire, chemical, and material safety exams yearly. You can't even work the way you want. If you want to pick something up that's all micromanaged. Lift with your legs. Use a hoist.

    Even in ordinary times your personal freedoms are restricted. You have a have a choice though. You have full informed consent to give or withhold or to hire on. Or not. That occurs anywhere in even the most ordinary of circumstances. People were objecting on the basis of their safety and on the next element severely afflicted by Covid. They were not informed and they were unable to give consent. They were forced to spread Covid 19.

    Health in an industrial environment. This involves the mitigation of potential health risks to individuals in an industrial environment. Environmental factors. Air quality. Vision and hearing preservation. Industrial hygiene. Oxygen levels. Managing cold and flus and Covid in way that decreases the risks.

    I got CV 19 in Jan of 2020. I had two days off of work. I was not quarantined. I returned to my dept still feeling sick as a dog because I had to. There was no social distancing, testing, or masks upon my return. There was no panic, hysteria or condemnation from the ivory tower on high.

    No one else in my dept got infected. We ate together, we jammed our grubby hands into each other's chip bags, we stood in close proximity talking in each other's face because of the noise. We sneezed in each other's face.. We handled each other's equipment's without sterilizing it. No infection, no transmission, no nothing. Those people didn't get sick until the masks were forced on us.

    During this time, and for a few months after we had the odd 2 0r 3 people calling in sick with Covid from each dept. Concerning but managed. We managed with disinfectants and hand washing as much as production time allowed. We did good. We knew what we were doing. It's all published. We all had Industrial health and safety training ad nauseum.

    Months later masks were imposed on corporate and state level against all previous health and safety standards.The governor on the record said that companies could do as they wanted without regard to established health standards and practices to manage the disease.

    Shortly after the masks were introduced the disease spread everywhere. Dozens of people in each department caught Covid. That many more were exposed to sick people, moved to other departments to back fill the missing staff and spread the disease. Suddenly Covid spread everywhere.

    How?

    It's a hot industrial environment. It takes a matter of moments before the masks were rendered as useless because they were saturated with sweat and breathe condensation. They became wearable petri dishes plastered to your face. In unventilated areas there were now any number of pathogens, irritants, particulate, bacterias, and viruses floating around to stick to your wet mask.

    It was a farce.

    You walked into the plant, selected a mask in the lobby from a grubby old Rubbermaid bin, that hundreds of unclean people had already pawed through. The bins were located next to trash cans overflowing with wet contaminated masks.

    Wearing wet masks means you are constantly plucking at it and touching your face. It itches. You get contact dermatitis. They are one size fits all. They slip because they are too big or too small. They slip because you are physically activ. They have huge gaps on the sides. There was some talk of physically sealing the masks to people's faces. Now suddenly people are working in Dachau.

    In hot conditions you have to stay hydrated. Again you are touching an infected mask then going on to touch other places.

    In no way is wearing a mask in these conditions equate jogging in a well-ventilated area like out of doors. It doesn't equate swimming in a nice cool lake with a mask on. It doesn't equate strolling around a grocery store with a mask on. Or sitting at a desk with a mask on. Or sitting at home unmasked. An industrial environment does not bear any resemblance to an environmentally controlled operating room, or office.


    You breathe out the sides of any ill fitting mask not through them. They are not filtering the air you are breathing in and out. They are simply redirecting 75 percent of air intake and exhaust out the sides. Wet masks make this 100 percent. Utterly useless for anything but catching and spreading disease. They are useful against potentially infected droplet matter. Unfortunately they arrest the droplet and allow the virus to aerosolize. So they are free to float around until the attach to an artificially created mucous membrane strapped to your face. We know this. We have equipment for testing permeability and airflow. What part of working in an industrial environment did the attackers not understand?

    For me working in a factory means science, math, testing, observation all kinds of test equipment, and lots of lots of engineers.

    Apparently for the rest of the world it means evil neo cons who don't do or know anything but object to wearing masks.


    Most of the people in this state are either employed in agriculture or factories. Most of them are in rural areas and sub sub urban areas populated by conservatives. We were still required to feed people attacking them, hated them and provide service parts for them. Eventually people just didn't care anymore. They let any old piece of shit get shipped with. Why provide anything quality to people who hated you.

    Those are the people who came boiling onto social media complaining not about personal freedoms but personal safety and health at the workplace. The spread of disease because of forcing people to irresponsible mask wearing. Even Dr Ding Dong Fauci said not to wear wet masks. He didn't say anything about forcing people to wear wet masks by design or accident because maybe he figured common sense would dictate that to those attacking others for not wearing masks. He figured wrong.

    Its also a place of very diverse work forces. Asians of all sorts, Ukrainians, Russians, Egyptians, Somalians, blacks, Island People, Latinos and Hispanics. It was not just white Trump conservatives sounding the alarm it was people who didn't belong to any US political schism at all. Anyone who objected. But they were all treated like evil neo cons. None of those people were bitching about personal freedom. Immigrants are not real clear on the concept of the American version of personal freedom. They were concerned about the health and safety of themselves, their families and coworkers. But all labeled as selfish haters. All labeled as haters and conservatives and Trumpsters.

    Personal freedom aside we have vast agencies, reporting, and federal oversight that has on public record that everyone is entitled to a safe and disease free workplace. Not a personal freedom, but this was done to the people who are feeding hateful mouths, making components for cars,

    At no point were people taught how to use sanitary techniques to change their mask. Nor was there time allotted for changing wet masks that meant going to the restroom, disposing of the mask, washing your hands before putting on a new mask. By the time you got back to your job it was wet again. I have never once seen anyone at work or abroad change or wear a mask correctly including the ones in the ivory tower of desk sitting.

    What changed. What happened in a matter of weeks that we went from managing the disease to having it spread out of control.

    Compromised masks worn by everyone in the plant.

    I won't even detail what happened in areas like die cast where people are working with materials exceeding temps of over 2000 degrees without water or rehydration products because you cannot have liquids near molten aluminum. Lots of injuries fainting and heat stroke. Mostly because the ventilation and fans were turned off. They might spread Covid. What was asked of people is to risk personal health and death so they could feel better about themselves.

    We had a TB scare that was attributed to wearing compromised masks. Thats how it spread. Touch the mask, touch other articles in the plant, other people came along and touched them, pulled at their mask, removed it.

    To cut to the chase everything that could happen to spread the disease did happen and anything that could have prevented it was ignored.

    There's a huge difference in medical grade surgical masks and the cheapo ones that clearly state on the box they are not intended for medical use or disease control.

    Surgical masks are worn in sterile clean rooms like operating theaters, that are temp controlled and well ventilated. Any airborne viruses that may sneak in there are usually killed by UV or near red lights.

    This was an out of control biohazard. Biohazards are addressed in industrial workplaces the same way they are at the CDC. Full respirator masks and haz mat suits. Not dollar store fake surgical masks. Didn't see a single one of those drug out of their hermetically sealed closet.

    None of these conditions exist in an industrial environment and the outcome isn't the same if you have cheapo masks on. Because of the unsterile environment even wearing medical grade masks wouldn't have helped.

    Once people let their fear turn them into monsters nothing is going to help.

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    Senior Member United States Diabolical Boids's Avatar
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    Going back directly to the header of the Topic.

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33180932

    That sounds less like a virus issue than people getting a virus and they already had depleted Thyroid so couldn't produce enough t cells during and after. Afterwards the depleted cells cannot reproduce because the thyroid was probably depleted for decades. Depleted thyroid puts all organs at risk and the thymus cannot produce T Cells. We have so many areas in the US that are referred to as goiter belts. Iodine deficiency all over. As a nation unless you are real health nut probably no one is getting sufficient Iodine intake, just enough to avoid bulging necks but not enough to help anything else. Like efficient T cell production.

    But after I started taking it my immune system started fending all this crap off. Damage may not be permanent. It may seem permanent if they are looking at the virus as the only cause instead of low functioning thyroid and thymus. No doctor takes thyroid seriously. Even after testing they say its normal but is it optimal? Especially after years of fending off colds, flus etc.

    The Airborne Aids connection.

    I'll pose a question to you going back to the original AIDS outbreak.

    What makes more sense

    Some random man in Africa went into the jungle had sex with a monkey and ended up carrying a monkey virus that caused catastrophic immune suppression resulting in a world wide pandemic.

    Or vaccines injected into gay men in SF and NY were subjected to vaccines that had been cultured in monkey kidneys or brains. Then the genetic material and viruses of the monkeys were then transferred into the vaccine and gay men began exhibiting cancer like symptoms weird monkey viruses and immune failure.

    Or....

    A Chinese person ate a bat at a wet market and started a global pandemic that seems to have some mysterious connection to Aids.

    Or... some element of a previously released vaccine was cultured in animal matter, like they did prior to AIDS outbreak, resulting in zoonosis cross contamination of preexisting flu viruses.

    Avian flu? How does avian diseases cross the zoonosis bridge?

    Culture a vaccine in chicken eggs or organs.

    To someone trying to maintain a scientific equilibrium what makes most sense.

    I'm going with the cross contaminated cultures instead of sex with monkeys and slurping up bats like Ozzy Osbourne.

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    Airborne aids is simply a catchy slogan to make people aware of what very well could be happening. Covid is distinct from Aids in any number of ways. But where they share a similarity is those over 50 may have tcell damage that is worsened with each exposure. So what has been characterized as an immune debt or deficit is actually immune damage. And it may be permanent.

    There are 2 million individuals in Britain alone, who have long covid, last count. And that is the stat coming out of a govt backed medical agency. Could be NIH, but am not sure. These numbers could continue to grow in the future as long as covid, mild forms or more virulent forms continue to circulate. So mask up, unless you feel you are in more danger in an industrial setting from doing so.

    Thanks for response, Diabolical. I can see you feel very passionate about this topic. I don't agree with most of what you write, but I can say too, that we are all living in a medical hall of mirrors right now.

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    Quote Originally posted by Octopus Garden View Post
    So what has been characterized as an immune debt or deficit is actually immune damage. And it may be permanent.
    Oh, then I am quadruply "blessed" now. I've had Covid-19 (alpha) twice in 2020, I had shingles early in 2022 (which also damages the nervous system), then I had Covid-19 (omicron) again in September 2022, and on the 26th of December 2022 I had a stroke.

    A real winner, eh?
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Something that is not being talked about is solutions, some and it will imo grow, are getting Qi gong, reiki and the likes, internal energy systems built up, yes yes i know chakras, with immune systems getting whacked by many differing things, getting or learning to self get balance with within health systems may be life enhancing, is happening n will grow, add or start with differing yoga's n meditations, at least one at start and end of day, with excess deaths also flying high these things will assist one.

    Adding, i was lazy and got reiki sessions from a reiki teacher when health was shot, when told at 36 you gonna be in a wheelchair by 40 i had nothing to lose and on the day i went to learn how to do it on myself, had to stop class 30 mins in and ask, what the heck is a chakra. Then life became a song called channnnnges

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    Senior Member United States Diabolical Boids's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Octopus Garden View Post
    Airborne aids is simply a catchy slogan to make people aware of what very well could be happening. Covid is distinct from Aids in any number of ways. But where they share a similarity is those over 50 may have tcell damage that is worsened with each exposure. So what has been characterized as an immune debt or deficit is actually immune damage. And it may be permanent.

    There are 2 million individuals in Britain alone, who have long covid, last count. And that is the stat coming out of a govt backed medical agency. Could be NIH, but am not sure. These numbers could continue to grow in the future as long as covid, mild forms or more virulent forms continue to circulate. So mask up, unless you feel you are in more danger in an industrial setting from doing so.

    Thanks for response, Diabolical. I can see you feel very passionate about this topic. I don't agree with most of what you write, but I can say too, that we are all living in a medical hall of mirrors right now.
    Any sort of havoc wreaked on the immune by any virus may began to mirror any serious immune system breakdown like AIDs. It's the immune system. It's a complicated mechanism. For that reason I'm not sure what I think of Covid causing Airborne Aids, but I'm glad to see someone out there in the hall of mirrors admitting the virus becomes aerosolized.

    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    Something that is not being talked about is solutions, some and it will imo grow, are getting Qi gong, reiki and the likes, internal energy systems built up, yes yes i know chakras, with immune systems getting whacked by many differing things, getting or learning to self get balance with within health systems may be life enhancing, is happening n will grow, add or start with differing yoga's n meditations, at least one at start and end of day, with excess deaths also flying high these things will assist one.

    Adding, i was lazy and got reiki sessions from a reiki teacher when health was shot, when told at 36 you gonna be in a wheelchair by 40 i had nothing to lose and on the day i went to learn how to do it on myself, had to stop class 30 mins in and ask, what the heck is a chakra. Then life became a song called channnnnges
    That is my perspective, solutions. I would rather be healthy than right. Sensationalizing diseases really doesn't equate non curable. Or unmanageable.

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    Senior Member United States Diabolical Boids's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Oh, then I am quadruply "blessed" now. I've had Covid-19 (alpha) twice in 2020, I had shingles early in 2022 (which also damages the nervous system), then I had Covid-19 (omicron) again in September 2022, and on the 26th of December 2022 I had a stroke.

    A real winner, eh?
    More than likely more than a winner. My BIL had a mini stroke back in Sept. Hospitalized. Bitched and ranted and raved about being hospitalized and released himself with minimal treatment. Ignored all warnings, and intervention to prevent further events. Had another stroke weeks later, a little bit worse. Ranted and raved and cried and whined and released himself, ignored all warnings and intervention. Had 'the' stroke 2 months ago. Now its loss of short term memory, pretty much in a modified dementia state, cannot wait on himself, has no use of his left arm. Has to be reminded constantly he has had a stroke and cannot act or do independently. Spends days watching Gunsmoke on Tv and refuses physical therapy by ignoring all cautionary warnings 2 of which were mini strokes.

    You are lucky to be able to take advice and avoid the big one.

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Thought shit ya cant call ya old lady that > BIL < saying my made me assume lol, had bitchin ill lady amonst others .

    Yes dang tough to be part of

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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    Thought shit ya cant call ya old lady that > BIL < saying my made me assume lol, had bitchin ill lady amonst others .


    No Vern, "BIL" is Americanese for "brother-in-law".
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    No Vern, "BIL" is Americanese for "brother-in-law".
    I had to go look it up. “What the hell is BIL?”
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Senior Member United States Diabolical Boids's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    I had to go look it up. “What the hell is BIL?”
    Text shorthand. For those like me too lazy to add the hyphens to brother in law.

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