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  1. #1
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Cause And Effect

    Seems hardly a day goes by any more without alarming headlines such as the following:

    Air Raid Sirens Sound In South Korea After North Korea Fires At Least 17 Missiles

    South Korea quickly responded by performing its own missile tests.

    November 1
    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/north...b08fd5e956be55

    But how did we get here? A little trip back through time is warranted. Let's start out jumping all the way back to October 19.

    U.S., S.Korean troops stage river-crossing drills as North Korea protests

    October 19
    https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-p...ts-2022-10-19/

    A lot of people just surf the headlines, already have that built in bias, so when they see "that madman" protesting a river crossing it's tempting to just think "well what's his problem it's just a river crossing?"

    The problem, is that the military operation is practicing river crossings that they may have to do it in an invasion of North Korea.



    On back to October 8, and again, it's tempting to think "it's a military drill, the military has to stay in fighting shape, stop it with the missiles mad man!"

    N Korea fires more ballistic missiles following US, allies military drills

    October 8
    https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2022/1...an-South-Korea

    Now if we dig in just a wee bit beyond the headline, it should start to become more clear what might really be going on here.

    North Korea has conducted two ballistic missile launches following back-to-back military exercises involving the United States and its regional allies, Japan and South Korea.

    The launches came on Sunday -- the seventh to take place in a matter of two weeks, Japanese authorities reported.
    Hmmmmmm (scratching chin), the seventh to take place in a matter of two weeks eh? Wow, that's a lot! So two weeks ago takes us back into late September, maybe we'll find where and how this all started in the first place.


    US aircraft carrier in S. Korea for joint exercise

    A US aircraft carrier has arrived in South Korea for a joint naval exercise, the first time since 2017.

    September 23
    https://www.dw.com/en/us-aircraft-ca...lls/a-63214140


    Maybe this is the reason the missiles are flying again, for the first time since 2017?

    But it's been so quiet, what caused these practice invasions to start back up again?


    US, South Korea begin largest joint military drills since 2017

    The Ulchi Freedom Shield drills are expected to run through Sept. 1 and will involve aircraft, warships, tanks, and thousands of troops. Exercises will include simulating joint attacks and practicing front-line reinforcements as well as removing weapons of mass destruction.

    South Korean President Yoon Suk-yeol, who took office in May, called for ramping up the military drills after a fresh outburst of belligerence from Pyongyang.

    August 22
    https://nypost.com/2022/08/22/us-sou...ls-since-2017/

    The "simulated joint attacks" started back up because of a "fresh outburst of belligerence from Pyongyang?" Well damn, what the hell did they do to warrant the war machine firing up again?


    North Korea tells South Korean president to ‘shut his mouth’ after offer of aid

    North Korea’s Kim Yo Jong, the powerful sister of leader Kim Jong Un, said on Friday South Korea’s president should “shut his mouth” after he reiterated that his country was willing to provide economic aid in return for nuclear disarmament.

    August 19
    https://nypost.com/2022/08/19/kim-jo...hut-his-mouth/

    Oh no, why we can't have them telling the leader of South Korea to shut his mouth, get the navy back out there it's game on again!



    I think this is a real good example of why these fires just keep popping off all over the place that simply must be put out!

    You know, there's very few things our last president did that I agreed with, but one of those very few was not only actually talking to an adversary, but stop provoking them to boot. Imagine that.

    So now here we are again, the same old song and dance, "look at the bad guy over here that must be stopped! And here, and here, and here"...

    Cause and effect, the self fulfilling prophecy.

    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Do you forget the demarcation walk, maybe all atm a show ?. LOL they did say that what Trump did was impossible .

  4. #3
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Rare sighting this day, AP simply showing a clear window into a situation while refraining from goosing it up with fiery Western rhetoric:

    North Korea: Missile tests were practice to attack South, US


    SEOUL, South Korea (AP) — North Korea’s military said Monday its recent barrage of missile tests were practices to “mercilessly” strike key South Korean and U.S. targets such as air bases and operation command systems with a variety of missiles that likely included nuclear-capable weapons.

    The North’s announcement underscored leader Kim Jong Un’s determination not to back down in the face of his rivals’ push to expand their military exercises. But some experts say Kim also used their drills as an excuse to modernize his nuclear arsenal and increase his leverage in future dealings with Washington and Seoul.

    North Korea fired dozens of missiles and flew warplanes toward the sea last week — triggering evacuation alerts in some South Korean and Japanese areas — in protest of massive U.S.-South Korean air force drills that the North views as an invasion rehearsal.

    U.S. and South Korean officials responded they would further enhance their joint training events and warned the North that the use of nuclear weapons would result in the end of Kim’s regime.

    “The recent corresponding military operations by the Korean People’s Army are a clear answer of (North Korea) that the more persistently the enemies’ provocative military moves continue, the more thoroughly and mercilessly the KPA will counter them,” the General Staff of North Korea’s military said in a statement carried by state media
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...35cd3d20329735

    You know, the older I get and the more I closely watch these international affairs, The more clear it becomes that it doesn't require highly trained individuals to manage international affairs.

    Don't fuck with people, and don't treat them like dirt, they don't like that it's human nature. Above all treat people with respect. Even your rivals. It's okay to have your differences, even great differences. Just work with them where you can, and leave those differences as a separate matter, it should never be "because we don't see eye to eye on a-b and c, we can never work with you on anything barring your total submission, or ultimate defeat".

    Unless... unless diplomacy is not the point, that total and complete domination is the only point. Nobody in their right mind could ever expect co-operation from a belligerent stance.

    This latest blog post could just as easily been in the New World Order thread, but being as it's specifically about North Korea it's put here.

    The foreign policy the US is currently conducting bears all the hallmarks of a dominating world power seeing it's grip on that power slipping, with other rising nations wanting a place at that private table as well, and it's doing all it can to re-establish that unquestioned, unchallenged dominance. It's lashing out in all directions, even at allies if they dare even hint at going an ever so slightly different direction. See the demolition of Nord Streams one and two.

    This slipping world power already has an operation underway to gut a fellow world power by using Ukraine as its proxy (to its last man if need be), it's all set to use Taiwan as another bait to be proxy in the take down of China, and that pesky nuclear power that's part of China's southern appendage needs to be dealt with once and for all in like kind itself.



    North Korea fired dozens of missiles and flew warplanes toward the sea last week — triggering evacuation alerts in some South Korean and Japanese areas — in protest of massive U.S.-South Korean air force drills that the North views as an invasion rehearsal.

    U.S. and South Korean officials responded they would further enhance their joint training events and warned the North that the use of nuclear weapons would result in the end of Kim’s regime.
    Kim Jong Un was not threatening anybody over there, not until the US and their lap dog South Korea resumed war games aimed at practicing the elimination of it's northern neighbor. I'd probably go out and fire a warning shotgun shot in the air as well from my front yard, if people were gathering right next door practicing to invade my home. Again, it's back to human nature, and not only human nature, animal nature as well. You don't back people, or animals for that matter, into a corner. That's when one can expect some real trouble.

    But if you want trouble, that's exactly how to find it.

    So if my warning shot from the front yard is just met with further aggression, then where are we going with this?

    This is by no means in defense of that silly little leader of North Korea, same as pointing out what's really going on in Ukraine is not to be interpreted as a defense of Putin, nor is pointing out the purposeful trigger point in Taiwan a kiss blown to Xi Jinping. That's the crux of how Western propaganda is positioned however, anyone pointing out what's really going on is automatically labeled a puppet of "the other".

    You are hereby branded and blackballed as in this oldie but goodie. Nothing has changed except the names and circumstances:
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    What's your take on this? Isn't WaPo US military mouthpiece anyways?

    U.S. privately asks Ukraine to show it’s open to negotiate with Russia

    The Biden administration is privately encouraging Ukraine’s leaders to signal an openness to negotiate with Russia and drop their public refusal to engage in peace talks unless President Vladimir Putin is removed from power, according to people familiar with the discussions.

    The request by American officials is not aimed at pushing Ukraine to the negotiating table, these people said. Rather, they called it a calculated attempt to ensure the government in Kyiv maintains the support of other nations facing constituencies wary of fueling a war for many years to come.

    The discussions illustrate how complex the Biden administration’s position on Ukraine has become, as U.S. officials publicly vow to support Kyiv with massive sums of aid “for as long as it takes” while hoping for a resolution to the conflict that over the past eight months has taken a punishing toll on the world economy and triggered fears of nuclear war.

    While U.S. officials share their Ukrainian counterparts’ assessment that Putin, for now, isn’t serious about negotiations, they acknowledge that President Volodymyr Zelensky’s ban on talks with him has generated concern in parts of Europe, Africa and Latin America, where the war’s disruptive effects on the availability and cost of food and fuel are felt most sharply.
    "The more I see, the less I know for sure." ~ John Lennon

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    Senior Member Morocco modwiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    What's your take on this? Isn't WaPo US military mouthpiece anyways?

    U.S. privately asks Ukraine to show it’s open to negotiate with Russia
    Smells like the spirit of the Minsk Accords. Deception.

    The current core of Western "diplomats" are perfidious.

    Russia will have to decide how they will play this obvious game.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by modwiz View Post
    The current core of Western "diplomats" are perfidious.
    Chuckling. As opposed to which core of Western "diplomats" that weren't?
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Senior Member Morocco modwiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Chuckling. As opposed to which core of Western "diplomats" that weren't?
    Just trying to keep focus on the now.

    Where power is.

    Your point is well made.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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  14. #8
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    So of course the same old song and dance never ends, the world is full of evil provocateurs intent on causing mayhem whenever, and wherever they can. This is why it's so vitally necessary for good ole Uncle Sam to be everywhere in order save the free world from ever imminent destruction. China threatens everyone, Russia threatens everyone, and that loose cannon in North Korea just keeps on firing off those missiles for no reason at all.

    This latest one's a doozy, getting all three of them together in one sentence:

    The meeting was heavily focused on North Korean leader Kim Jong Un's recent escalations, although Biden said the three leaders would also discuss strengthening supply chains and preserving peace across the Taiwan strait, while building on the countries' support for Ukraine in the face of Russian aggression.
    https://www.stripes.com/theaters/asi...a-8034207.html

    Nothing about the fact that Kim Jong Un is reacting to war games aimed at perfecting invasion plans, the U.S. no longer respecting it's "One China Policy", or NATO expansion and a 2014 regime change coup in Ukraine.

    Nope, just that these despots need to be reigned in, or else...

    See how this works?
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    "Cause and Effect" blog continuing update:

    You know, back when I read "1984" for the first time, alongside a very real threat of nuclear war, it was very hard to envision that one day I would actually be staring straight at the "telescreen" carefully explaining to me how 2+2=5. But here we are.

    First the telescreen told me that Russia had blown up their own gas pipeline to Germany, who needs that gas desperately, and rather than just hit the shut down switch to demonstrate leverage, the maniac in charge decided to blow it up instead in order to demonstrate to the world that he could do so. It was actually a threat! No matter that the American president was already on record saying that this pipeline would be destroyed should Russia enter Ukraine, while shortly after his Secretary of State refers to it not as a horrific event that should be investigated but a "tremendous opportunity", nope! All powerful Oz behind the telescreen informs me it was a self inflicted wound. "He's crazy! - a grave danger to us all!"

    Next thing you know, almighty Oz behind the telescreen informs me that the crazy man is once again shelling the largest nuclear power plant in Europe, the same plant that his troops have occupied and controlled since early on in this conflict. "Damn" I say to myself while scratching the chin, "why would troops shell the very same nuclear power plant that they occupy? Hmmmm, what's this crazy fucker gonna do next, cut off his own head on live t.v. to demonstrate how good he is with a long blade?"

    So here it is straight from the all knowing telescreen. Somehow it's okay to report that "someone" is doing the shelling, and it's applauded as tremendous journalism to report it's that crazy son of a gun doing it to himself and threatening the whole world again, but under no circumstances is it acceptable to ponder that maybe, just maybe, it's the opposing force doing the shelling in order to try and retake that nuclear power plant.

    I wonder who that "someone" may be selling the plant? Maybe it's Iran, or North Korea, or even China?

    Here's the more ambiguous report saying "someone" is doing this:

    Several buildings, systems and equipment at the power plant — none of them critical for the nuclear safety and security of the plant — were damaged in the shelling, the IAEA statement said, citing information provided by the plant’s management. There were no reports of casualties.

    Grossi said reports of shelling were “extremely disturbing.” He added: “Whoever is behind this, it must stop immediately.

    “As I have said many times before, you’re playing with fire!” Grossi said, and appealed to both sides in the conflict to urgently agree and implement a nuclear safety and security zone around the nuclear facility.
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...08d7e54b3d070d

    But the more standard fare is the evil ones shelling themselves:

    Russian shelling cuts power to Ukraine’s nuclear plant, the largest one in Europe
    https://nypost.com/2022/11/03/russia...nuclear-plant/

    So yeah, "Cause and Effect" fulfills the same purpose as Orwell's "Ministry of Truth" in "1984". It dictates to the prols whether Oceana is presently at war with Eurasia or Eastasia on any given day, and that bit of information dictates who the prols turn their attention to during the daily "Two Minutes of Hate".

    Shout Out His Name!!! Show Him Your Righteous Hate!!!

    "Putin! Jinping! Assad! Kim Jong Un! Maduro! Ghadaffy! Hussein! Noriega! Castro!"
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  18. #10
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    This is a classic. Appear to be the force of stability in the region, while saying so from a country you currently have occupying forces in.
    US official urges 'de-escalation' as Turkey strikes Syria

    (snip) BEIRUT -- A U.S. official in Syria on Friday called for an “immediate de-escalation” following days of deadly airstrikes and shelling along the Syria-Turkey border, saying the actions destabilize the region and undermine the fight against the Islamic State group. (snip)
    https://abcnews.go.com/International...syria-93960446



    I mean seriously, as if this is not destabilization?

    US military ‘owns’ 1/3rd of Syria, boasted top Biden Pentagon official, vowing to block reconstruction of ‘rubble’

    (snip) Dana Stroul, a longtime US diplomat who oversaw a congressionally mandated study of Syria, outlined the four-pronged plan for what she called the “new phase” of the war:

    US military occupation of Syria’s “resource-rich” “economic powerhouse”;
    “Diplomatic isolation” of the Syrian government;
    Economic sanctions against Damascus and its allies; and
    “Preventing reconstruction aid and technical expertise from going back into Syria.”
    It is beyond debate that this approach will lead to massive suffering, privation, and even the deaths of masses of Syrians. But when Stroul presented it before a panel, the potential impact on civilians was not even mentioned once. (snip)
    https://thegrayzone.com/2019/11/05/u...econstruction/



    Some monster size cojones, but the masses eat it up like candy regardless so, why worry about the blatant hypocrisy when most people in the West are totally blind to it...


    Here's one view of that "Northern 1/3":
    https://www.memri.org/reports/syrian...northern-syria



    Name:  Northern Half 4.jpg
Views: 76
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    And here's another:
    https://www.globalsecurity.org/jhtml...7-07-17.jpg|||




    Name:  Northern Half 3.jpg
Views: 77
Size:  233.0 KB



    Note that this bottom picture demonstrates how the U.S. can dominate this region with so few troops, the Kurds are their bodyguards.

    Also note that the Kurds are PKK/PYD, whom both the U.S. and Turkey considers terrorist groups. Interesting isn't it?
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  20. #11
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    So, is the EU really this stupid? If my car mechanic tells me he's going to charge me half again for his services as compared to the competition, and I tell him if you do I'll take my business elsewhere, that's not a threat that's a promise. Why the hell would I subject myself to that kind of bullshit. Cause and Effect 101.

    From Sept. 7

    Putin threatens to cut off Russian energy to West as Europe plans price caps

    Vladimir Putin threatened to cut off all oil and gas exports to the West in response to a proposal by Europe and America to cap the price of Russian energy.

    The Russian president made the ultimatum Wednesday at an economic forum in Vladivostok, calling a plan by the Group of Seven to institute price controls on Russian energy “stupid.”

    “An attempt to limit prices by administrative means is just ravings, it’s sheer nonsense,” Putin said. “If they try to implement that dumb decision, it will entail nothing good for those who will make it.”

    Russia is the world’s second-largest oil producer behind Saudi Arabia and the largest single producer of natural gas. A decision to stop exports to Europe — where the bulk of Russia’s pipelines lead — would throw the world energy markets into turmoil.
    https://nypost.com/2022/09/07/putin-...ns-price-caps/



    FFS the man told you straight up what's gonna happen if you put artificial price caps on his oil exports, he'll take his business elsewhere.

    And so it begins:

    Russia could disrupt oil markets if they penalize countries that abide by the $60 price cap, RBC's commodities chief says

    Russia could disrupt oil markets if they penalize nations that abide by the price cap, according to RBC's Helima Croft.

    The EU cap on Russian oil kicks into gear on Monday, with bloc setting the level at $60 a barrel.

    But alternative supplies are scarce, meaning a retaliation from Russia could send oil prices higher.

    Russia could further roil energy markets if the Kremlin chooses to penalize countries that abide by the $60 price cap on Russian crude, according to RBC's commodities chief Helima Croft.

    "A key factor to watch right now is, will the Russians make good on their threats to withhold supplies to any customer who pays at the cap?" Croft said in an interview with CNBC on Monday, pointing out that Russia has already cut off its gas supplies from nations that won't pay in rubles. "They have a real track record of disruption. Will it carry over to oil?"
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...ys/ar-AA14VlCT

    So just like these other sanctions that are backfiring on Western Europe, who's really at fault for the coming deindustrialization, and cold dark winters?

    Like we started out here are they really this stupid? Or is it something else?

    The "bad guy" didn't starve you of the oil you need so much, you did...
    Last edited by Fred Steeves, 5th December 2022 at 15:57.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Senior Member Morocco modwiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    So, is the EU really this stupid?
    I would call the EU fatally stupid. They are friends of Wash. DC. EU-thanasia.

    Kissinger said it like it is.

    BDSM with a snuff ending.
    Last edited by modwiz, 6th December 2022 at 00:44.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    So, is the EU really this stupid?

    Quote Originally posted by modwiz View Post
    I would call the EU fatally stupid. They are friends of Wash. DC. EU-thanasia.
    Fatally stupid, yes that works, even got a bit of a ring to it. Next level stupid, in the realms of trying your luck at Russian Roulette with a semiautomatic. It's actually tempting to think it's almost more along the lines of the Jedi mind trick, being led down the Primrose Path under delusions of grandeur. "The Force can have a strong influence on the weak minded":

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=532j-186xEQ


    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Kissinger said it like it is.
    Talk about an inconvenient truth! It's uncomfortable looking to the likes of Kissinger as being a rare voice of reason on certain matters these days, but if it's there it's there. I wonder if that's maybe a sign that this present day stock of war pigs, are taking things to such extremes that it's making the old guard look wise and restrained in comparison. Let's dig up Zbigniew Brzezinski and stick him in there as National Security Advisor.

    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    BDSM with a snuff ending.
    (Chuckling) I hereby nominate that little gem for the sardonic quip of the month award.
    Last edited by Fred Steeves, 6th December 2022 at 21:32.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  26. #14
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Looks like Jimmy Dore and "The Duran" tag team consisting of Alex Christoforou and Alexander Mercouris are making another run of working together. It already seems smoother than when they tried it before a ways back.

    I was amused at Jimmy's reactions trying to figure out how these price caps could possibly work along with the rest of us, starting at around 4:36 you can really see those wheels turning upstairs. I like and admire his natural born curiosity in trying to figure out just what the heck is really going on out there, and not being satisfied with what the media tells him, there's precious little of that out there.

    It takes a lot of time and effort, not an easy task nor a popular path to take.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Looks like Jimmy Dore and "The Duran" tag team consisting of Alex Christoforou and Alexander Mercouris are making another run of working together. It already seems smoother than when they tried it before a ways back.

    I was amused at Jimmy's reactions trying to figure out how these price caps could possibly work along with the rest of us, starting at around 4:36 you can really see those wheels turning upstairs. I like and admire his natural born curiosity in trying to figure out just what the heck is really going on out there, and not being satisfied with what the media tells him, there's precious little of that out there.

    It takes a lot of time and effort, not an easy task nor a popular path to take.
    It was a smoother interaction. Jimmy nailed it when he said he is the C+ student. He used his lack of depth for asking good questions.

    A good formula, IMO.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

  29. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to modwiz For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (8th December 2022), Fred Steeves (7th December 2022), Wind (7th December 2022)

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